American Politics

[Razors left peg]

Why would you break up the Department of Education, of all things? Or roll back the goal of making the air easier to breathe?

It's mental how quickly he can action these things. Imagine how useful the office of President of the US could be if it wasn't filled by a deranged looney.

The idea is that it pushes back the Education responsibility to the individual States. In theory it's not terrible, but in actuality it's a disaster. Creationism is a more valid theory than Evolution in a lot of States just for example, but the main issue will be the lack of federal funds towards Education.

The reason behind it is simple. The better educated States vote Democrat. That's a verifiable fact before any says I'm biased. The dumber you keep voters the easier you can control them

[pineapple stu]

The reason behind it is simple. The better educated States vote Democrat. That's a verifiable fact before any says I'm biased. The dumber you keep voters the easier you can control them
I see. I can't think of anything on this thread that would back you up in that regard :p

But it's more cynical than I was capable of being, which is saying something

[Eminence Grise]

I don’t have stats for voting patterns and education, but Razor’s last point about keeping voters dumb holds water. As far back as 1920, Walter Lippmann was writing much the same – he’s something a doyen for the right because his theories about halting the decline of democracy propose having a technocratic elite [Edit: rereading this, it struck me that tech bros and conservative Christiain patriarchy are the new technocrats] able to interpret issues for the masses, even though as a journalist and political commentator he wasn’t naturally disposed to that mindset. He saw the elite as a useful thing, once its power was kept in check.


In the absence of institutions and education by which the environment is so successfully reported that the realities of public life stand out sharply against self-centered opinion, the common interests very largely elude public opinion entirely, and can be managed only by a specialized class whose personal interests reach beyond the locality. This class is irresponsible, for it acts upon information that is not common property, in situations that the public at large does not conceive, and it can be held to account only on the accomplished fact.

In other words, if you let this class dominate what information they masses receive … you’re in trouble. If the message is creationism good, evolution bad and it’s sustained (and interpreted for the masses) by state-approved textbooks and publicly funded universities – well, good night and good luck.

Lippmann was clear that the elite should never engage in debate with the masses, but give them simple easy to understand symbols and stereotypes – the flag, Commies and Reds, God, the dollar, Uncle Sam – and they’ll go where the messages condition them.


The orthodox theory holds that a public opinion constitutes a moral judgment on a group of facts. The theory I am suggesting is that, in the present state of education, a public opinion is primarily a moralized and codified version of the facts. I am arguing that the pattern of stereotypes at the center of our codes largely determines what group of facts we shall see, and in what light we shall see them.

What’s dismal is that the book these are from, Public Opinion, came out in 1920 and is still in print, and on university reading lists around the world (mine too, but as an early stage on a continuum that eventually ends up with Goebbels, and in counterpoint to John Dewey who was all for education the masses as a bulwark to support democracy against elites).

[Razors left peg]

Mark12345 I am very curious to get your take on this Trump tariff stuff. I have yet to see anyone say its a good idea or even anything less than its a disaster for the economy and working people in general. As we talked about previously you put more trust in FOX and Newsmax so Im wondering if the talking heads over there have a different take that has you convinced that this is a really good thing?

[dahamsta]

The convervative line, which that person will take, is that it's just a matter of time, America will win. You know, like the Brits did.

[Stuttgart88]

I seem to recall the performance of 401(k)'s being cited as a gauge of Trump v1.0's "success".

[osarusan]

In the case of Kilmar Ábrego García, despite acknowledging that his deportation to El Salvador was an administrative error, and despite a 9-0 Supreme Court ruling that they must facilitate his return, the Trump administration will not do so.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9qwxwrr74jo

What an utter basket case of an administration.

I read this morning that Australian academics who had planned to attend some conference in the US are hesitant to do so, and some events are being switched to hybrid to cater for this reluctance to travel.

How pointlessly stupid.

[seanfhear]

I read this morning that Australian academics who had planned to attend some conference in the US are hesitant to do so, and some events are being switched to hybrid to cater for this reluctance to travel.

How pointlessly stupid.
This will be great for the climate change.

[SkStu]

This will be great for the climate change.

OK - this made me laugh!

[CraftyToePoke]

In the case of Kilmar Ábrego García, despite acknowledging that his deportation to El Salvador was an administrative error, and despite a 9-0 Supreme Court ruling that they must facilitate his return, the Trump administration will not do so.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9qwxwrr74jo

What an utter basket case of an administration.

I read this morning that Australian academics who had planned to attend some conference in the US are hesitant to do so, and some events are being switched to hybrid to cater for this reluctance to travel.

How pointlessly stupid.

The UK lad who's tattoo somehow ended up on their gang watching for idiots guide to running a country another highlight.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly22xm8kx1o

Of course he has the US holiday of a lifetime booked and is now twitching a bit.

Have a look at Benidorm lad or Ibiza, few yokes, bit of footwork, make do with that for now would be my advice.

[SkStu]

To be fair, it looks like that tattoo guide predates the current administration!

[Razors left peg]

Trump deploying the National Guard and mobilizing the Marines in LA against the will of the Governor of California is a dangerous and scary reach of powers that is a foresight of whats to come it seems. This weekend there is a military parade in Washington DC where Trump has already said that protestors will be met with massive force. There are protests planned for all over the country this weekend, the Governor of Texas has already mobilized the National Guard there to quell the protests. This is escalating extremely quickly.

ICE are acting like the Gestapo snatching people off the streets, and yet when people exercise their right to protest, like is allowed in any democracy, they are threatened with the Marines on the streets. If Trump is allowed to get away with over ruling the Governor on this I think its fairly clear whats to come. Election time I would expect to see the Military on the streets enforcing Trump running for his 3rd term, which he is already talking about.

This country feels like it is on the precipice right now

[joey B]

And they look like they’re about to start a war with Iran aswell so there’s that!

[pineapple stu]

Isn't that the plot of Threads, the 80s BBC nuclear war film often rated as one of the scariest films ever made?

[Razors left peg]

Isn't that the plot of Threads, the 80s BBC nuclear war film often rated as one of the scariest films ever made?

No idea but the real life stuff right now is scary enough

[Eminence Grise]

A bit similar alright, and Threads might look a bit hoaky with its early '80 SFX but it still has impact. It's online and worth a watch.

Trump is acting like the bully joining a new school - find the biggest kid in the yard and punch him in the face. If there's no retaliation or the kid is softer than he looks, it's a win. A blind man on a galloping horse could have predicted that Trump would pick a fight with a sanctuary city, so he could send in the troops, and the two most prominent are probably LA and New York, but he was never going to go after NY. The last week has the feel of a Fort Sumter moment...

I was chatting with a colleague recently about the parallels between the 1930s and where we are today and what I thought would be short enough list kept expanding...



Recent global pandemic: Spanish Flu / Covid 19
Junk science: eugenics and Rassenhygiene (racial hygiene) / RFK anti-vax as policy
Economic recession and consequences: post-war economies (mass unemployment, debt) Great Depression / 2007 Crash, Covid economic effects
Religious bigotry: Antisemitism / Islamophobia
Expansionist leader reuniting perceived national or owned territory: Hitler (Czechoslovakia and Austria) / Trump (Panama)
Expansionism and imperialist land grabs: Mussolini (Ethiopia) / Trump (Greenland, Canada, not counting Gaza, a property punt)
Fascist leader in thrall to an exemplar dictator: Mussolini – Hitler/ Trump – Putin
Private political armies: Brownshirts, Blackshirts / Proudboys, Oathkeepers
Glorification of criminal activities as legitimate insurrection and lionising of participants, including pardons: Munich Putsch / Capitol Hill riots.
State-sanctioned police terrorism against protest: creation of Gestapo / use of ICE
New media and propaganda channels: radio and cinema / social media and comms apps
Bypassing parliamentary processes: Hitler ruling by decree / US president’s executive orders (so routinely [ab]used it's hard to point the finger at Trump alone)
Purge of public services: Hitler (Law for the Restoration of the Professional Civil Service, 1933) / Musk (DOGE)
Purge of universities: removal of non-conforming staff, book-burning / removal of nonconforming staff, programmes that challenge the state closed, restrictions on library stocks, withdrawal of federal funding
A handbook for totalitarianism: Mein Kampf / Project 2025


Dark times…

[Eminence Grise]

Just reopened this page and I see I've 1939 thanks. Hopefully not an omen...

[joey B]

The Middle East has been set alight this evening….

[pineapple stu]

A bit similar alright, and Threads might look a bit hoaky with its early '80 SFX but it still has impact. It's online and worth a watch.

Trump is acting like the bully joining a new school - find the biggest kid in the yard and punch him in the face. If there's no retaliation or the kid is softer than he looks, it's a win. A blind man on a galloping horse could have predicted that Trump would pick a fight with a sanctuary city, so he could send in the troops, and the two most prominent are probably LA and New York, but he was never going to go after NY. The last week has the feel of a Fort Sumter moment...

I was chatting with a colleague recently about the parallels between the 1930s and where we are today and what I thought would be short enough list kept expanding...



Recent global pandemic: Spanish Flu / Covid 19
Junk science: eugenics and Rassenhygiene (racial hygiene) / RFK anti-vax as policy
Economic recession and consequences: post-war economies (mass unemployment, debt) Great Depression / 2007 Crash, Covid economic effects
Religious bigotry: Antisemitism / Islamophobia
Expansionist leader reuniting perceived national or owned territory: Hitler (Czechoslovakia and Austria) / Trump (Panama)
Expansionism and imperialist land grabs: Mussolini (Ethiopia) / Trump (Greenland, Canada, not counting Gaza, a property punt)
Fascist leader in thrall to an exemplar dictator: Mussolini – Hitler/ Trump – Putin
Private political armies: Brownshirts, Blackshirts / Proudboys, Oathkeepers
Glorification of criminal activities as legitimate insurrection and lionising of participants, including pardons: Munich Putsch / Capitol Hill riots.
State-sanctioned police terrorism against protest: creation of Gestapo / use of ICE
New media and propaganda channels: radio and cinema / social media and comms apps
Bypassing parliamentary processes: Hitler ruling by decree / US president’s executive orders (so routinely [ab]used it's hard to point the finger at Trump alone)
Purge of public services: Hitler (Law for the Restoration of the Professional Civil Service, 1933) / Musk (DOGE)
Purge of universities: removal of non-conforming staff, book-burning / removal of nonconforming staff, programmes that challenge the state closed, restrictions on library stocks, withdrawal of federal funding
A handbook for totalitarianism: Mein Kampf / Project 2025


Dark times…
Yep. A US Senator arrested yesterday in LA for asking questions (https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5ygn48djrko) - not entirely sure of the backdrop (was he entitled to just barge in and enter for example), but it's not a great look.

I know you have social media in there, but you could probably add in the rise of activism and divisive identity politics (including racist ideologies such as Critical Race Theory/white privilege/white fragility). That sort of stuff is just not helpful. Social media also helps this sort of stuff cross borders really quickly, and activists then don't pick up on the fact the message can have lost all meaning in the cultural transfer.

I'd be wary of drawing a parallel between 1930s anti-semitism and current islamophobia by the way. Conservative Islam is racist, homophobic and misogynistic, among other criticisms. It's the core of people's protests when Qatar/Saudi Arabia win major sporting events for example - but there's an extreme hypocrisy when comments about those same cultural issues of Islam in the West are dismissed as islamophobia. There's a serious discussion needed about Islam's place in the West given upcoming demographic changes, and the attempts to stifle that debate by effectively calling it racism also contribute to societal tensions I think.


The Middle East has been set alight this evening….
Christ - Netanyahu makes Putin look like a pussy cat. Sky News' report is headed "This is the moment the Middle East has been waiting for (https://news.sky.com/video/analysis-skys-dominic-waghorn-says-this-is-the-moment-the-middle-east-has-been-waiting-for-13383032)". Echoes of another piece of 1980s nuclear popular culture - "This is what we're waiting for/This is it boys, this is war"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiwgOWo7mDc

[Eminence Grise]

you could probably add in the rise of activism and divisive identity politics (including racist ideologies such as Critical Race Theory/white privilege/white fragility).

That's a very present day set of circumstances. I take it you mean activism as confined to identity politics not in its abundance where it can have very positive societal impact? I'm not sure what the 1930s equivalent would be of theories that make a hegemonic group feel challenged. Frankfurt School thinking? Anybody with any suggestions?


I'd be wary of drawing a parallel between 1930s anti-semitism and current islamophobia by the way.

The parallel isn't between the religions themselves but the various conditions (social, political, economic etc) that were exploited that made an enemy of a group identifiable by a relgion. Sure, conservative Islam is racist, homophobic and misogynistic: so is conservative Catholicism, and I'm sure many here know Muslims who are about as devout as the average hatch, match and despatch Catholic.
[/QUOTE]

[pineapple stu]

That's a very present day set of circumstances. I take it you mean activism as confined to identity politics not in its abundance where it can have very positive societal impact? I'm not sure what the 1930s equivalent would be of theories that make a hegemonic group feel challenged. Frankfurt School thinking? Anybody with any suggestions?
Yes on identity politics (which is probably the majority of what I was referring to there really). Andrew Doyle (Titania McGrath on Twitter) references the Frankfurt School as a comparison in his book The New Puritans alright.


The parallel isn't between the religions themselves but the various conditions (social, political, economic etc) that were exploited that made an enemy of a group identifiable by a relgion. Sure, conservative Islam is racist, homophobic and misogynistic: so is conservative Catholicism, and I'm sure many here know Muslims who are about as devout as the average hatch, match and despatch Catholic.
I still don't think the parallel fully works. There's no large-scale boycotts of Muslim businesses for example, or denial of rights to own a business. There's no requirements to wear identifying symbols (although ironically they do that themselves), or segregation orders in place at school level. Hitler enacted all of that between 1933 and 1939.

And I think to criticise conservative Christianity, while valid, misses something in its scope. Here's a 2017 survey comparing Islamic and Christian views (or culturally Islamic and culturally Christian views) in Austria (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Austria#Religiosity_and_fundamentalism) for example. 73% of Muslims replied that the laws of the Koran were more important than the laws of Austria, compared to 13% of Christians saying the same about the Bible. 69% of Muslims said they did not want a gay person as a friend and 63% said they could not trust the Jews (compared to 15% and 11% of Christians). Scaled up to the aggregate, this is a particularly concerning view, and I don't think an anecdote about a non-devout Muslim really counters it.

[CraftyToePoke]

Is it just me not spotting him or has JD Vance gone a bit lower profile in recent weeks ?

Y'know, from parading around Greenland rounding up down & outs & drunks to don MAGA hats, then the Signal leaks thing showed he wasn't always or exactly of the same mind as Trump foreign policy wise, especially vitriolic toward Europe in those. Constantly anti aid to Ukraine, made an even bigger show of himself than Trump when they had Zelensky round for tea & biscuits that time, but he was front & centre.

So where is he ?
Can we assume the VP given previous stances wants no part of Netanyahus purge. The one Fox News piece I did find from the other day wasn't exactly a ringing endorsement of further entanglement either.

[Razors left peg]

Is it just me not spotting him or has JD Vance gone a bit lower profile in recent weeks ?

Y'know, from parading around Greenland rounding up down & outs & drunks to don MAGA hats, then the Signal leaks thing showed he wasn't always or exactly of the same mind as Trump foreign policy wise, especially vitriolic toward Europe in those. Constantly anti aid to Ukraine, made an even bigger show of himself than Trump when they had Zelensky round for tea & biscuits that time, but he was front & centre.

So where is he ?
Can we assume the VP given previous stances wants no part of Netanyahus purge. The one Fox News piece I did find from the other day wasn't exactly a ringing endorsement of further entanglement either.

He went quiet around the same time as the Elon fallout. Were Elon and JD taking too much attention away from King Taco and had to be moved aside?