American Politics

[seanfhear]

PIRA so riddled that they were effective in their bombing and terror campaigns up to the mid/latter 1990s. That Sein Fein were so riddled that they managed to negotiate (with others) th GFA, release of prisoners, that consent was a key pillar among other consessions that the British made.

So you think that agents of the Irish State are controlling Sein Fein? Well I suppose they are if you class Irish citizens that are members of the party and via their Ard fheis vote on policy as per their party constitution. But if they are 'infiltrated' they would be no electoral threat to the old order, so there would have been no need for two opposing sides of civil war politics suck it up to form a coalition to keep Sein Fein in opposition.

Sein Fein has been a 'socialist' party since their reemergence in to 1950s Irish politics, same now as they were then, probably more to the extreme even than from their original foundation pre independence. If you have voted SF you have voted for as extreme left wing as there is available in Irish politics bar maybe old Giller.

Sein Fein of the 50s and today is the same difference. At its beginning Griffith was a stated socialist with Connolly et al close associates.Can you point to me one single objective that Sinn Féin ( and the PIRA ) had prior to 1997 that they have achieved ?

They have achieved No objective that they had before 1997. The British were clever enough to dress up the defeat of PIRA as a deal.They did this to stop other IRA's coming in to being. And with some minor exceptions the British have been very successful with that.

Sinn Féin and their IRA ( PIRA ) were defeated by the British. Proof of this is that, Sinn Féin / PIRA, have not achieved one single objective they had before 1997.

It's time for some home-truths on this. Because this is how we ended up with the Sinn Féin party that we have today !

[Nesta99]

I have no love for Sein Fein/ IRA. How the GFA came about or SF objectives, successes or failures, Im indifferent about in the context of this thread, if at all tbh. A peace process has stuck so great, there is a pathway to unification and one day we will see if the democratic processes work or it pokes a beast.

But back on point, I dont know whether there is some astute deflection going on, selective engageent or just a pick a point and go.

You have an issue with communism, ie pretty far left, you quoted Pearse as a republican, he had communist leanings, wrote about them and associated with likeminded people. Is this an issue for you?

[seanfhear]

I have no love for Sein Fein/ IRA. How the GFA came about or SF objectives, successes or failures, Im indifferent about in the context of this thread, if at all tbh. A peace process has stuck so great, there is a pathway to unification and one day we will see if the democratic processes work or it pokes a beast.

But back on point, I dont know whether there is some astute deflection going on, selective engageent or just a pick a point and go.

You have an issue with communism, ie pretty far left, you quoted Pearse as a republican, he had communist leanings, wrote about them and associated with likeminded people. Is this an issue for you?
You should also note that Pearse and other Lefties of his time, had no knowledge at that time of how many People, Communists were going to kill.

[Razors left peg]

God be with the days when the village idiots of the world were kept in their villages. The internet has a lot to answer for!

[seanfhear]

God be with the days when the village idiots of the world were kept in their villages. The internet has a lot to answer for!Is this a self confession from you ?

Anyway, I assume a moderator would have a word with this poster for the personal attacks !

Obviously, this poster resorts to personal attacks when he has lost the arguments !

Hopefully he just keeps it to personal attacks on the internet !

[Nesta99]

You should also note that Pearse and other Lefties of his time, had no knowledge at that time of how many People, Communists were going to kill.

Doesnt that apply to all politcal ideologies? How many people have been killed by capitalism, wars fought in the name of democracy, democratically elected leftist governments collapsed by the 'leaders of the free world', the same propping up regimes guilty of mass murder, the Pinochets of the world. The afore mentioned elected Israeli government's current conduct. If we go further back in history.....
You might call this whatboutery, Id call it perspective, balance. My uncle would say the broader the statement the narowwer the mind - seeping statements eg the left are evil (communists/ socialists), as you hear said in US politics, or all Republicans are fascist which I dont agree with either as I feel that MAGA is different from regular GOP, their issue being that they are saying too little to challange over reach by the MAGA admin. For a party that advocates small government.

Did Pearse know people would be killed by taking up arms in the centre of Dublin, of course he did, did he know how many? No, did he care, for the cause probably not. Sounds like the mindset of a communist by your reckoning. We should probably diffrenciate between communism and stalinism too.

Again to get back on thread though, do you see the left in US politics as communist?

[Razors left peg]

Is this a self confession from you ?

Anyway, I assume a moderator would have a word with this poster for the personal attacks !

Obviously, this poster resorts to personal attacks when he has lost the arguments !

Hopefully he just keeps it to personal attacks on the internet !

I was just making a general point, cant be helped if you assume I was talking about anyone specifically

[seanfhear]

I was just making a general point, cant be helped if you assume I was talking about anyone specificallyObviously, I though you were self - confessing !

[seanfhear]

Doesnt that apply to all politcal ideologies? How many people have been killed by capitalism, wars fought in the name of democracy, democratically elected leftist governments collapsed by the 'leaders of the free world', the same propping up regimes guilty of mass murder, the Pinochets of the world. The afore mentioned elected Israeli government's current conduct. If we go further back in history.....
You might call this whatboutery, Id call it perspective, balance. My uncle would say the broader the statement the narowwer the mind - seeping statements eg the left are evil (communists/ socialists), as you hear said in US politics, or all Republicans are fascist which I dont agree with either as I feel that MAGA is different from regular GOP, their issue being that they are saying too little to challange over reach by the MAGA admin. For a party that advocates small government.

Did Pearse know people would be killed by taking up arms in the centre of Dublin, of course he did, did he know how many? No, did he care, for the cause probably not. Sounds like the mindset of a communist by your reckoning. We should probably diffrenciate between communism and stalinism too.

Again to get back on thread though, do you see the left in US politics as communist?Some are certainly wanna-be Communists.

[Razors left peg]

The fine folks on Fox News now are advocating for just killing homeless people

https://www.threads.com/@aaron.rupar/post/DOi-4hCiWaK?xmt=AQF01Eh0t0INazy_wekyC-n_vKHLTcLRwWjGoJW_mVJ4uQ&slof=1


In response to him saying on TV that all homeless should just be killed, Fox news host Brian Kilmeade issued an apology

https://x.com/kilmeade/status/1967219726456959138

The fact that a guy can literally call for an extermination of hundreds of thousands of people on live tv and just get to apologize and move on is a sign of where the US is at today. This sort of rhetoric has been made ok by the Trump administration. Its very hard to see right now how things can ever be rolled back to "normal" over here. Its a scary time!

[Nesta99]

Some are certainly wanna-be Communists.

Some may well do. But i'll take it than that you accept that majority of the left of US politics are not communists or on the extremes of leftism.

[seanfhear]

Some may well do. But i'll take it than that you accept that majority of the left of US politics are not communists or on the extremes of leftism.Probably, but it is actually hard to judge these days. There is certainly a good number around the edges of the American Democratic Party that you would never like to see have real power.

Just look at their reactions to the horrific assassination of Charlie Kirk.

[Eminence Grise]

Genuinely interested, seanfhear, how do you define communism? Or, rather, what does it mean to you? And which American politicians are communists - not by name-calling but by their actions which are congruent with Communism? I'm curuious because the Communist Party USA claims a mailing list (https://www.c-span.org/program/washington-journal/joe-sims-on-communist-party-usa-and-campaign-2024/643328) (which I would infer is not the same as a paid-up membership) of 20,000. (The cynic in me thinks half of those are probably in the FBI!!)

By the way, this is the official CPUSA statement on the murder of Charlie Kirk (https://www.cpusa.org/article/statement-on-the-kirk-murder/):


The cycle of political violence that’s plagued the U.S. grew worse with the killing of right-wing Christian nationalist Charlie Kirk in Utah. The Communist Party USA rejects such violence.

In response, the MAGA movement, including Trump, have blamed Kirk’s murder on the “radical left,” labeling left politics a national security threat and calling for a crackdown and even war.

Yet, according to even ruling class law enforcement, the main source of political violence in our country is the radical right. This includes the thousands of insurrectionists whose attack on the U.S. Capitol the Trump White House pardoned, giving not only a nod and wink but outright approval. It also includes the assassination just weeks ago of Minnesota State Rep. Melissa Hortman and her husband. MAGA’s complete hypocrisy seems endless, and their refusal to address the use of weapons of war on our streets is a case in point.

The working-class and democratic movements know full well from our own long experience that acts of violence and terror only serve the interests of the forces of hate, racism, intolerance, and reaction.

Political violence against individuals, including mass shootings, serve no useful purpose, and we condemn them. Only systemic change will bring about the society we seek. Such change must come through non-violent peaceful mass struggle. The Communist Party USA recommits itself to this goal. We shall not be moved.



What do you take from that?

[seanfhear]

Genuinely interested, seanfhear, how do you define communism? Or, rather, what does it mean to you? And which American politicians are communists - not by name-calling but by their actions which are congruent with Communism? I'm curuious because the Communist Party USA claims a mailing list (https://www.c-span.org/program/washington-journal/joe-sims-on-communist-party-usa-and-campaign-2024/643328) (which I would infer is not the same as a paid-up membership) of 20,000. (The cynic in me thinks half of those are probably in the FBI!!)

By the way, this is the official CPUSA statement on the murder of Charlie Kirk (https://www.cpusa.org/article/statement-on-the-kirk-murder/):



What do you take from that?I will say that some of them are probably cos-playing as Communists, after-all so many of them are actually doing extremely well out of Capitalism.

Thing is, ya never really know the real Communists until they get the power to be real Communists.

Ya really get to know Communists when they become killing Communists i.e When they get the power to become killing Communists !

[Eminence Grise]

Seanfhear: if an undergrad gave me that answer in an essay, they'd fail the assessment for not addressing part a and for omitting part b. I'm going to pin you down here, and I'll make my questions more specific:


What are the characteristics that help you to identify communism as distinct from the moderate left?

Which of these characteristics are most unacceptable to you, and why?

Can you name three American politicians who exhibit those characteristics of communism, giving an example of each characteristic?

What is your reponse to the CPUSA statement on the murder of Charlie Kirk?

[seanfhear]

Seanfhear: if an undergrad gave me that answer in an essay, they'd fail the assessment for not addressing part a and for omitting part b. I'm going to pin you down here, and I'll make my questions more specific:


What are the characteristics that help you to identify communism as distinct from the moderate left?

Which of these characteristics are most unacceptable to you, and why?

Can you name three American politicians who exhibit those characteristics of communism, giving an example of each characteristic?

What is your response to the CPUSA statement on the murder of Charlie Kirk?Well, the Communists will kill you as soon as it suits them, and as soon as they have the power to do so, Because killing is the only thing that Communists are really good at.


Can you name three American politicians who exhibit those characteristics of communism, giving an example of each characteristic? AOC, Pocahontas, Jasmine Crockett, ( three off the top of my head ) ~ As I say it hard to differentiate between the Democrats cos-playing as Communists and the Democrats that would be Communists if they had the power to be Totalitarian Communists !


CPUSA statement What Communists say and what Communists do doesn't very often tie in together.

[Eminence Grise]

Well, the Communists will kill you as soon as it suits them, and as soon as they have the power to do so, Because killing is the only thing that Communists are really good at.

But fascists kill indiscriminately, and absolute monarchs, theocrats and sundry despots of all political persuasion, left and right.


AOC, Pocahontas, Jasmine Crockett, ( three off the top of my head ) ~ As I say it hard to differentiate between the Democrats cos-playing as Communists and the Democrats that would be Communists if they had the power to be Totalitarian Communists !

I disagree: once you know the characteristics it's quite easy to distinguish committed Communists from those exploring their political position.

AOC: why is she a communist?
Jasmine Crockett: why is she a communist?
I don't want an opionion: I want a reasoned answer with an example.

Pocahontas died in 1617, about 250 years before Communism became a political ideology, and I'm unsure if there has been any exploration of her political affiliation though there has been a lot of ahistorical fetishising of her. Native Americans might have emphasied community or communalism at tribal level, but so too did Pope Pius XI in Quadragesimo anno in 1931 in opposition to communism, socialism - and capitalism.

I'm sure you didn't intend to list only three women of colour as your sample, and that it's just coincidence.



What Communists say and what Communists do doesn't very often tie in together.

It absolutely does.


So once more:

What are the characteristics that help you to identify communism as distinct from the moderate left?

Which of these characteristics are most unacceptable to you, and why?

Can you name three American politicians who exhibit those characteristics of communism, giving an example of each characteristic?

What is your reponse to the CPUSA statement on the murder of Charlie Kirk?

[SkStu]

Moderate left. Interesting turn of phrase that is worth discussion. There doesn't seem to be room for someone to be considered moderate anything anymore. As evidenced on here, if you hold liberal views on certain matters you are branded a commie killer; similarly if you hold more conservative views on these matters you are branded a fascist nazi. There is a lot of room for moderate views but nobody is interested in defining what these are. "If you're not with me, you are the evil enemy". We give way too much precious oxygen and airtime to extremes that represent probably 10% of the population (5% on each side) but those with vested interests like to paint that number at closer to 50%/50%. The topics of most dispute are so debate worthy too, like if you can really get stuck into them in a productive way, hear all sides, understand all fears, you might actually find a compromise that all sides can live with (isnt that what life is about?) - things like immigration, racial equality, womens rights (incl. transgender rights)...but sadly its become a game of "who can shout/shoot loudest".

[seanfhear]

But fascists kill indiscriminately, and absolute monarchs, theocrats and sundry despots of all political persuasion, left and right.



I disagree: once you know the characteristics it's quite easy to distinguish committed Communists from those exploring their political position.

AOC: why is she a communist?
Jasmine Crockett: why is she a communist?
I don't want an opionion: I want a reasoned answer with an example.

Pocahontas died in 1617, about 250 years before Communism became a political ideology, and I'm unsure if there has been any exploration of her political affiliation though there has been a lot of ahistorical fetishising of her. Native Americans might have emphasied community or communalism at tribal level, but so too did Pope Pius XI in Quadragesimo anno in 1931 in opposition to communism, socialism - and capitalism.

I'm sure you didn't intend to list only three women of colour as your sample, and that it's just coincidence.




It absolutely does.


So once more:

What are the characteristics that help you to identify communism as distinct from the moderate left?

Which of these characteristics are most unacceptable to you, and why?

Can you name three American politicians who exhibit those characteristics of communism, giving an example of each characteristic?

What is your reponse to the CPUSA statement on the murder of Charlie Kirk?It's the killing Communists that I don't like, and that is all Communists when they get the power to do their Communist killing.

[passinginterest]

That's a fair point I think. Something that Irish politics/society seemed to be more resistant to than others was those extremes. In fact, overall, I think we're still a lot more moderate and tolerant of debate than elsewhere. The marriage equality and abortion referenda were examples of what would certainly be seen in the current light as liberal ideology being supported by the majority. A large part of their success seemed to come down to a willingness to debate and to be open to change. The social benefits were sold, and there was an acceptance or acknowledgement from many on the more conservative side that while gay marriage or abortion might not align with their personal views, there was potentially wider societal benefits and they wouldn't directly have to change their own views.

It feels like fear and anger have taken over from any kind of rational or moderate thought process for too many. The acceptance of world leaders brazenly lying, fake news, etc. all seems to be exacerbating the extremes. Again, social media seems to have a lot to answer for. There's now almost a fear of mainstream media and a belief that partizan, unregulated, extremist views, coming from within these social media bubbles is somehow better. Any kind of opposing view is dismissed, blocked, unfollowed, unfriended, so the bubble becomes more and more narrow and the moderate or different views start to completely disappear. Then when you come out of that bubble, there's screams that those views must be lies, because they don’t exist within their bubble, other than in being vilified.

So many views now are one liners, I think we’re seeing it in this thread. Ask for an explanation and a little bit of detail or logic and it doesn’t exist. The argument is just shout louder and it seems to be grounded in fear more than anything else. If it’s different then it must be bad, because my bubble says it’s bad. It’s going to be so hard to reverse this and it’s probably going to take a generation or more. It might well take a world war.

[Eminence Grise]

It's the killing Communists that I don't like, and that is all Communists when they get the power to do their Communist killing.

I'm rarely intemperate here, though there have been a few times I feel I've crossed the line and my toes are on it now, so I'm going to disengage. I have no respect for the opinions you've given, but I can, at least, respect you and hope that someday we can have a meaningful, honest discussion.

[Eminence Grise]

There doesn't seem to be room for someone to be considered moderate anything anymore. … There is a lot of room for moderate views but nobody is interested in defining what these are. "If you're not with me, you are the evil enemy". …The topics of most dispute are so debate worthy too, like if you can really get stuck into them in a productive way, hear all sides, understand all fears, you might actually find a compromise that all sides can live with


I think we're still a lot more moderate and tolerant of debate than elsewhere. The marriage equality and abortion referenda were examples of what would certainly be seen in the current light as liberal ideology being supported by the majority. A large part of their success seemed to come down to a willingness to debate and to be open to change….

It feels like fear and anger have taken over from any kind of rational or moderate thought process for too many….

I think we’re seeing it in this thread. Ask for an explanation and a little bit of detail or logic and it doesn’t exist. The argument is just shout louder and it seems to be grounded in fear more than anything else.


Everything you both say – and the bits I edited for brevity – I agree with. History goes in cycles and MAGA is really a reborn version of the American Party – the Know Nothings of the 1850s. But while its influence was short lived (though not its legacy) and confined to America, MAGA has seeped into global discourse, and it’s an ideology that revels in brashness, undermining of civility and revelling in ignorance. How can rationality counter tactical, bad-faith irrationality? Answers on a postcard, please.

[seanfhear]

What are the reactions of posters here, to the reaction of a lot of Lefties in America and indeed else-where to the horrific assassination of Charlie Kirk ?

Aren't these nasty Lefties actually showing their true colours ?

There is, no way normal civilised people would react in this manner, to such a horrific assassination of a man in-front of his wife and children ? !

[pineapple stu]

Bit late to the party here, but there's some interesting points here that are worth discussing I think (certainly more so than the nonsense Communist stuff)


Liberalism: I’ve no issue with it and for the most part welcome it, but now that I’m in my early fifties I recognise that the ‘certainties’ of my upbringing are being challenged and some of those challenges do make me uncomfortable. I hope that my responses in those situations are thoughtful rather than reactive.
I think liberalism in general is good, but there's a definite sense that it can go too far and be harmful. I think if you go back 250 years, life was hard and tenuous. Conservatism I would say arose out of a recognition that some things kept you alive more often that not, and those things were good. With the Industrial Revolution, we suddenly had a huge number of options available to us - conservatism became the voice that said "People can't go more than 20 mph or they'll get turned inside out", whereas liberalism said "No, let's invent trains". Conservatism said women at work was bad and gay people were bad, and liberalism said there was no real reason for that.

But now we have too much, and liberalism is reflecting that. We think men can compete in women's sports and that's fair and inclusive. We people who pay criminal organisations to put them on a plane or a boat to another country and "lose" their documents along the way should be welcomed. Liberalism is now becoming the side that has no real reason to it. I think society requires a balance required there, and I think that balance is reason, and a vision of the future. Are there things we want to preserve, for example? Will liberalism harm them? (Women's rights could be an example here)


Irish society issues: immigration is an issue only inasmuch as we haven’t the infrastructure to cater for new numbers.
I think that's a very one-sided argument - very typical of general discussion on immigration. There's plenty of other issues with it. For one, it creates huge issues for developing countries - so when 90% of Jamaican college graduates emigrate, that has a huge impact in terms of holding back Jamaica's development. African countries are facing big problems developing healthcare because when they train doctors, western countries poach them - and so Africans die for lack of adequate healthcare. Indian IT firms have a similar problem with losing key IT staff, again holding back their economy. As Eastern Europe depopulates, the very borders of Europe are likely to be more destabilised - that should be obvious from things happening right now with Russia.

Are these things we welcome?

It was Newton who said "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction", and that's true here as well, yet everybody ignores that opposite reaction. Which is strange - we should be very familiar with the devastating effects of brain drain from our own history.

Another big issue is carbon impact. Emigration/immigration has a very big carbon footprint. A return flight from, say, Ireland to India generates in the region of 3.5 tonnes CO2e. To meet carbon targets, the average individual should be reducing to 4 tonnes CO2e per year, and reducing further from there. (Ireland to Australia is closer to 7 tonnes CO2e). Most Indians I know will fly home at least once a year - and of course they would, to visit family and friends. It stands to reason that a society where an increasing number of people generate an entire year's worth of carbon emissions just visiting relatives is a deeply unsustainable one, and one where climate change is not only not going to be addressed, but is going to accelerate.

I think we need a lot more balanced- and unselfish - discussion about the wider impacts of immigration/emigration. I feel the way we look at it now is very colonialist - we view the developing world's resources as things we can help ourselves to. Raw materials in the olden days, labour now - same story, different resource.


Irish culture: what is Irish culture? One man’s dilution is another’s enrichment. We laud our sporting culture: GAA, Ronnie in Helsinki, Sonia O’Sullivan and now her daughter, Sophie – is that culture diluted or enriched with Rhasidat Adeleke and Chiedozie Ogbene? There are new voices in literature and the arts.
I think your examples here may be biased towards people who have adopted to a culture - and while that deserves to be called out, I think care needs to be taken to put it in an overall context. Is it a majority of people who do that? Did it only work in a world where Irish people were in a 95% majority here, and not (as will be the case in the next 20-25 years) a minority here? How will the GAA manage in the future where the vast, vast majority of people who play (95%+ I think I saw in one article) are ethnic Irish? Is there a level of immigration that can integrate and a level beyond which it becomes a deluge? Is conservative Islam Irish culture? Yet it's growing across Western Europe with no signs that it's interested in integrating. The fact that the most common boy's name in England the last couple of years has been Mohammed I think should be a real concern.

I think the question of "What is Irish culture?" is one of those questions that can be hard to pin down in words so it sounds great, but everyone knows instinctively what the answer is. "What is life?" is a similar one - there's no agreed definition, yet we know what it is. Others will say "What is a woman?", which can be hard to define too once you get into technicalities around intersex of women who've had hysterectomies and so on - yet we all know what it is.

After the moon landing in 1969, the head of NASA - asked about the role of the new EU in the space race - passed a comment along the lines that it would be a shame if it did away with "that great breadth of diversity that is Europe's gift to the world". We're very rapidly getting rid of it now, I feel - everywhere is turning the same. Is that a good thing? Or is cultural diversity worth preserving?


Women raising a family: I think it’s personal choice. Women are disadvantaged on retirement because maternity leave eats into their pension entitlements, and mortgages mean that both parents have to work outside the home in many cases
I think the idea of the gender pension pay gap is one of the most bizarre things that modern society has gotten itself offended by. What does it matter if a husband retires with a bigger pension pot than his wife (or indeed, vice versa?) Are husband/wife not a team, after all - or partners, if you will? Do you zealously guard your pension pot and let your partner have none of it? If you got divorced, would it not be split equally?

The idea that mortgages mean that both parents have to work, while true in a lot of cases, says more about the societal failings of Fianna Fáil/Fine Gael in terms of actively ramping up house prices than anything else. It benefits so few people, yet we all seem to think it's great. It's bizarre.

Anyways, a long post to generate some debate! There's lots of stuff I didn't pick on, largely because I broadly agree with what you've said. That doesn't make for interesting debate though!

[Nesta99]

What are the reactions of posters here, to the reaction of a lot of Lefties in America and indeed else-where to the horrific assassination of Charlie Kirk ?

Aren't these nasty Lefties actually showing their true colours ?

There is, no way normal civilised people would react in this manner, to such a horrific assassination of a man in-front of his wife and children ? !

There has been outright condemnation! There have also been trolls too, but not within Democrat leadership or mainstream. The trolls have also been condemned. Political violence is not acceptable. The impression im getting is that people are selectively seeing only the trolls and everythig gets trolled by some be it on the rght or left.
Actually Candace 0wens, kind of entertaining for all the wrong reasons, right wing podcaster is saying that Kirk was threatened in recent weeks by his own as he was about to start criticising Israel, she claims Netanyahu even contacted him. She is suggesting his death was perpetrated by a pro-Israel camp to silence him. Do I believe it, certainly not, is it possible? its not absolutely impossible. But if people on the right decide to choose her as their 'news' source and an example of right wing opinion across the board then he was assassinated by his own.

[Razors left peg]

What are the reactions of posters here, to the reaction of a lot of Lefties in America and indeed else-where to the horrific assassination of Charlie Kirk ?

Aren't these nasty Lefties actually showing their true colours ?

There is, no way normal civilised people would react in this manner, to such a horrific assassination of a man in-front of his wife and children ? !

There is not a single Democrat politician that has done anything other than condemn the killing. I have not seen a single person other than social media trolls say anything other than the killing was wrong and should never happen in a civilized society. Now the same could not be said for Republican politicians who openly mocked the death of Melissa Hortman, her husband and their dog. (look up Senator Mike Lees response)

[joey B]

It is rich for people on the right in America to get on their high horses about the reaction to the death of this fella,everyone has seen what large parts of the Republican Party have said about the ongoing genocide in Gaza,that is thousands of people being systematically massacred by a ally of there’s,give me a break with pontificating about reactions to tragedy’s…..

[seanfhear]

It is rich for people on the right in America to get on their high horses about the reaction to the death of this fella,everyone has seen what large parts of the Republican Party have said about the ongoing genocide in Gaza,that is thousands of people being systematically massacred by a ally of there’s,give me a break with pontificating about reactions to tragedy’s…..So, it depends on who is getting killed to you ?

[joey B]

So, it depends on who is getting killed to you ?

Yes Sean that’s exactly what I said!

[seanfhear]

Yes Sean that’s exactly what I said!Good that you are honest ~ But when you go down that road, of being selective about who you agree with getting killed, then you do need to see where you are, and what brought you here.

Because , when one group of people, say / think, that it is fine to kill this group or other ~ Then other people will decide that is is perfectly ok to reciprocate ! !

[joey B]

Good that you are honest ~ But when you go down that road, of being selective about who you agree with getting killed, then you do need to see where you are, and what brought you here.

Because , when one group of people, say / think, that it is fine to kill this group or other ~ Then other people will decide that is is perfectly ok to reciprocate ! !

You’re a waste of time Sean !

[seanfhear]

You’re a waste of time Sean !Well, at least I am not in favour of People getting killed.

[joey B]

Well, at least I am not in favour of People getting killed.

Who’s in favour of that Sean ?

[seanfhear]

Yes Sean that’s exactly what I said!Is this your post ?

[joey B]

Is this your post ?

I’m never sure if you’re actually serious or trolling at this point tbh …..

[seanfhear]

So, it depends on who is getting killed to you ?


Yes Sean that’s exactly what I said!
Doesn't this suggest that you think it's ok if some people are getting killed in certain conditions ? !

[joey B]

Doesn't this suggest that you think it's ok if some people are getting killed in certain conditions ? !

No it absolutely does not Sean,you should stop filling your brain up worrying about imaginary communists and leave room for other things!

[seanfhear]

Yes Sean that’s exactly what I said!I don't think that you have clearly explained this post.

[John83]

Doesn't this suggest that you think it's ok if some people are getting killed in certain conditions ? !
How do you feel about this ongoing story?
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/3-killed-2nd-strike-alleged-venezuelan-drug-boat/story?id=125599866

[seanfhear]

How do you feel about this ongoing story?
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/3-killed-2nd-strike-alleged-venezuelan-drug-boat/story?id=125599866As I hate drugs and drug dealers then this a difficult one for me ~ I'll have to be honest, Taking out drug dealers is along the level of taking out paedophiles to me, I really struggle to with this.

Not ideal, but if it is effective, I won't be mourning drug dealers.

[John83]

If they were in fact carrying drugs, they could have been interdicted, boarded, arrested, charged and punished. If. All we really know for sure is a bunch of people were murdered by the US military for an alleged crime that doesn't actually carry the death sentance in the US. That seems a far more serious thing than a lone nutter shooting some podcaster.

[seanfhear]

If they were in fact carrying drugs, they could have been interdicted, boarded, arrested, charged and punished. If. All we really know for sure is a bunch of people were murdered by the US military for an alleged crime that doesn't actually carry the death sentance in the US. That seems a far more serious thing than a lone nutter shooting some podcaster.I will honestly admit that my absolute hate for drug dealers is skewing my thinking here.

I hate drug dealers.

[Nesta99]

You hate communists too, should they be just killed?

If you had made a statement on being a really high IQ individual, i'd have thought we had Dindalk J Trump visitng foot.ie, you answers are basic and generally tend not to answer what is asked in a very similar manner to his, You dislike 'people' without being able to give any sort of reasonable rationale beyond making additional 'dont like them' type of arguments, 'they kill people' in sweeping statements that lack balance, insight, or a willingness to discuss altrnative perspectives. You may say that your thnking is skewed for drug dealers, but I think your thinking is just skewed! I dont have an issue with people having different views of the world than I, Id like to just understand and discuss differences.
I have had it said to me last weekend that all the left are just evil, I was dumbstruck, sitting in the room, when the person knows that I would lean in on the left. I heard all about how the left have 'laughed' at the Kirk killing, when I had been saying how political violence of any kind is bad, me and the vast majority of the left. Im sensing the same kind of sweeping viewpoints from you sean and an unwillingness to meaningfully engage and accept evidence contrary to your beliefs. I have tried to to tease out and engage in discussion, no animosity or criticism of what was said but there is only so much you can try.

I am starting to understand why Governor Newsome is using the Donald playbook to engage on topics on social media. I thought it was entirely to mock but now Im starting to think that it is the only way to communicate with the right who are apparently extremely limited in education and metaphorically need crayons to communicate, or they only listen to those who shout the loudest even if it is pure rubbish.

Soooo while I have no issue with you sean, I will continue to engage on anything you initiate, I will read posts and reply on the Rep of Ireland football forum, but I am done with trying to have meaningful disussion on politics in a thread such as this one.

[seanfhear]

I detest Communists because as soon as they have the power to do so, they become killer Communists.

[The Fly]

Is this your post ?
It’s called sarcasm Sean. Come on ffs!

[SkStu]

Good faith dialogue left the room about 4 pages ago!

[Razors left peg]

How do you feel about this ongoing story?
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/3-killed-2nd-strike-alleged-venezuelan-drug-boat/story?id=125599866

This isnt being talked about enough. Execution without trial is something that does not happen in a democratic society. Are cops going to start executing suspected criminals instead of arresting them next? Its a slippery slope

[seanfhear]

Lefties don't take it well when you don't agree with them.

Lefties are often very insecure for some reason. I wonder why that is ?

Is it because deep down they know, that the vast majority of Lefty leaders are cos-playing as Lefties and are actually doing extraordinarily well from capitalism and are actually not going to do the stuff they are cos-playing with !

That must have a weird affect on ordinary lefties !

Re Communism = How come Communism always produces Elite Communists = It happens every time !

[Razors left peg]

Lefties don't take it well when you don't agree with them.

Lefties are often very insecure for some reason. I wonder why that is ?

Is it because deep down they know, that the vast majority of Lefty leaders are cos-playing as Lefties and are actually doing extraordinarily well from capitalism and are actually not going to do the stuff they are cos-playing with !

That must have a weird affect on ordinary lefties !

Re Communism = How come Communism always produces Elite Communists = It happens every time !

WTF are you even talking about dude

[Nesta99]

Lefties don't take it well when you don't agree with them.

Lefties are often very insecure for some reason. I wonder why that is ?

Is it because deep down they know, that the vast majority of Lefty leaders are cos-playing as Lefties and are actually doing extraordinarily well from capitalism and are actually not going to do the stuff they are cos-playing with !

That must have a weird affect on ordinary lefties !

Re Communism = How come Communism always produces Elite Communists = It happens every time !

Ever taken unemployment benefit, if you have kids and kept childrens allowance, recieved healthcare that you have not paid for in full, taken sickpay, if you intend to recieve an old age pension and a whole lot more provided for by the state. If the answer to any of these is yes then you are a leftie by action and your words are hence meaningless!