American Politics

[seanfhear]

You can see from the carry-on on social media of the " tolerant " left to the death of Charlie Kirk ( a married man with two young children ) what the " tolerant " left are really like !

I certainly hope this vile stuff from the " tolerant " left opens a few eyes ! !

[mark12345]

You can see from the carry-on on social media of the " tolerant " left to the death of Charlie Kirk ( a married man with two young children ) what the " tolerant " left are really like !

I certainly hope this vile stuff from the " tolerant " left opens a few eyes ! !

Amen Sean

[John83]

The vast majority of violence , threats of violence comes from the " tolerant " Left in America. It's what the Left / Communists do. It's the Communist way. Do what the Communists tell you or they will kill you.
That must be a very comforting lie to tell yourself.


Two years ago a team of researchers from four universities examined court records and other data relating to 3,500 extremists (https://www.start.umd.edu/publication/comparison-political-violence-left-wing-right-wing-and-islamist-extremists-united) active in the U.S. between 1948 and 2022. The individuals were split into three groups — left wing, right wing and relating to Islamic extremism. While some in the database had committed violent acts, others had raised money for extremist groups, volunteered or spoken out in favor of them.

Right-wing extremists were just as likely to commit violent acts as those motivated by Islamic extremism, the researchers found. Left-wing extremists were a distant third.
https://apnews.com/article/political-violence-trump-biden-pelosi-assassination-c4423ed88df6f4b3557aa11e798f855d

[seanfhear]

That must be a very comforting lie to tell yourself.


https://apnews.com/article/political-violence-trump-biden-pelosi-assassination-c4423ed88df6f4b3557aa11e798f855d
As if Left Wing American Universities would be reliable about anything ? !

[John83]

Your basis for what you know is that someone on your team gave you your talking point. Mine is a peer reviewed study based on decades of court records. Sneer all you like.

[seanfhear]

Your basis for what you know is that someone on your team gave you your talking point. Mine is a peer reviewed study based on decades of court records. Sneer all you like.Like I say, Left Wing American Universities checking their own home-work, wouldn't be considered reliable by a free thinking person !

[pineapple stu]

Ah lads, don't give seanfhear and mark oxygen in fairness. They've shown time and again they're not interested in debate, just in reiterating someone else's view.

[seanfhear]

Ah lads, don't give seanfhear and mark oxygen in fairness. They've shown time and again they're not interested in debate, just in reiterating someone else's view.Don't shoot the messengers ! !

[mark12345]

Ah lads, don't give seanfhear and mark oxygen in fairness. They've shown time and again they're not interested in debate, just in reiterating someone else's view.

Debate? A 31 year old man with a wife and two kids was just gunned down because he invited college kids to have a dialogue and "debate " issues. He was very successful at it and had an awful lot of followers. He engaged in free speech. But free speech was attacked along with himself yesterday. Sean and I support the man in our posts. You are content to have a good at us for that?

[Jd2793]

interesting that there was no commentary on here after an elected rep from Minnesota was shot dead in june....

[mark12345]

Don't shoot the messengers ! !

Amazingly just hours after the assassination of Charlie Kirk, MSNBC host Matthew Dowd engaged in derogatory comments about him. He has been fired this morning.

[mark12345]

Don't shoot the messengers ! !

When the news broke yesterday of Charlie Kirk's assassiation, Republicans in the House of Representatives asked for a moment to pray for Charlie and his family. They were denied that request by their Democrat colleagues. This was reported this morning

[Nesta99]

If you are on the right pointing at the left and on the left pointing at the right then you are part of the problem!. The blame game is pure sh1te!

We all know what the root problems are, among many things disparity of wealh, fractured society where division is the political discourse, us and them, in a country where access to guns is the norm - allow people to be armed and they might one day point their gun at you. Think Northern Ireland in the 70s and 80s but in a country of 300million people with 400million guns, that the potential.

[Nesta99]

Don't shoot the messengers ! !

This tongue in cheek or a poorly timed, crass, insensitive comment after someone was shot.....

[mark12345]

If you are on the right pointing at the left and on the left pointing at the right then you are part of the problem!. The blame game is pure sh1te!

We all know what the root problems are, among many things disparity of wealh, fractured society where division is the political discourse, us and them, in a country where access to guns is the norm - allow people to be armed and they might one day point their gun at you. Think Northern Ireland in the 70s and 80s but in a country of 300million people with 400million guns, that the potential.

Don't disagree with you at all about the political discourse, but you're argument about guns doesn't hold water. How do you stop illegal guns in America if you can't even stop illegal drugs which kill infinitely more people than guns do. Cities like Chicago, Baltimore and many others have some of the most stringent gun laws in the world and yet criminals still get guns and kill people. And yet you would deny law abiding gun owners the chance to defend themselves against these crazies?

Most of the citizens of Switzerland are gun owners are they not? And yet there is nothing like the level of gun attacks in that country - seems to me there are far less criminals in Switzerland per head than in America?

[tetsujin1979]

Don't disagree with you at all about the political discourse, but you're argument about guns doesn't hold water. How do you stop illegal guns in America if you can't even stop illegal drugs which kill infinitely more people than guns do. Cities like Chicago, Baltimore and many others have some of the most stringent gun laws in the world and yet criminals still get guns and kill people. And yet you would deny law abiding gun owners the chance to defend themselves against these crazies?

Most of the citizens of Switzerland are gun owners are they not? And yet there is nothing like the level of gun attacks in that country - seems to me there are far less criminals in Switzerland per head than in America?
Guns are the leading cause of death for children up to the age of 17.

You left out the training that you have to go through in Switzerland to legally own a gun, and the safe that they have to be contained in to hold on to the gun, and the regular checks on said safe to be allowed to continue to own a gun.
Also, you can't own a gun if you have a criminal record.

[mark12345]

Guns are the leading cause of death for children up to the age of 17.

You left out the training that you have to go through in Switzerland to legally own a gun, and the safe that they have to be contained in to hold on to the gun, and the regular checks on said safe to be allowed to continue to own a gun.
Also, you can't own a gun if you have a criminal record.

I left out the training? But I thought you knew that to own a gun in America legally you need to go through training and hold the gun in a safe and get a license and re register every 5 years. You didn't know that? And neither can you own a gun with a criminal record. But somehow, some way those criminals get guns all the time. Do you think that if they enforced the laws already on the books that things might be different?

[tetsujin1979]

32 states allow ownership without training, and according to various reports about 40% of gun owners have had no formal training.
About half of gun owners in the US don't store their firearms in a safe. Depending on the conviction on your criminal record, you can can still legally own a gun.

[mark12345]

Just as a matter of interest, did the news channels over there report about the 23 year old Ukrainian girl murdered on the train in Charlotte? She survived the Russian bombings only to be stabbed to death by a crazy person in North Carolina. Did that get any ply over there?

[tetsujin1979]

Google exists Mark, and has done for some time.
You should try it.

[mark12345]

Google exists Mark, and has done for some time.
You should try it.

?????

[mark12345]

I am a gun owner and all of the things I listed apply to me. Very stringent controls. I know for a fact that states are way more stringent now than just a few years ago. I question your figures.

[tetsujin1979]

?????
https://gprivate.com/6ibwl

[seanfhear]

This tongue in cheek or a poorly timed, crass, insensitive comment after someone was shot.....
Charlie Kirk was a messenger. What happened to him ?

[tetsujin1979]

I am a gun owner and all of the things I listed apply to me. Very stringent controls. I know for a fact that states are way more stringent now than just a few years ago. I question your figures.
Then you should provide your own

[CraftyToePoke]

Google exists Mark, and has done for some time.
You should try it.

That fella was on here denying Trump said about removing Palestinians from Gaza. So I posted the Fox News clip where he said it. Which he had no comment on thereafter.

Wasting your time with these clones.

[Razors left peg]

Kirk was shot from about 200 yards away with a rifle. That comes across more like a professional hit rather than just some random lunatic. The fact that they still havent been caught also points to a professional, but yet all we are hearing is that some lunatic lefty killed him. We dont know who this guy is. Every Democrat politician I have seen has condemned the killing as strongly as possible.

[mark12345]

Kirk was shot from about 200 yards away with a rifle. That comes across more like a professional hit rather than just some random lunatic. The fact that they still havent been caught also points to a professional, but yet all we are hearing is that some lunatic lefty killed him. We dont know who this guy is. Every Democrat politician I have seen has condemned the killing as strongly as possible.

I agree with you about the professional hit . This has all the markings of a professional. I was speaking with someone this morning who explained time between the impact of the bullet and the sound which came afterwards equals the distance traveled. You're right, it is something of the order of 200 yards. As of now they have recovered the rifle and are looking for a "college age individual."

Whatever about the age, I don't envision too many college kids having that type of training?

[CraftyToePoke]

As of now they have recovered the rifle and are looking for a "college age individual."

Whatever about the age, I don't envision too many college kids having that type of training?

Well, they've recovered A rifle.
They say.

& they need an arrest. A suitable one.

[mark12345]

From the Wall Street Journal for what its worth: "Ammunition in Kirk Shooting Engraved With Transgender, Antifascist Ideology: Sources"

[Nesta99]

Don't disagree with you at all about the political discourse, but you're argument about guns doesn't hold water. How do you stop illegal guns in America if you can't even stop illegal drugs which kill infinitely more people than guns do. Cities like Chicago, Baltimore and many others have some of the most stringent gun laws in the world and yet criminals still get guns and kill people. And yet you would deny law abiding gun owners the chance to defend themselves against these crazies?

Most of the citizens of Switzerland are gun owners are they not? And yet there is nothing like the level of gun attacks in that country - seems to me there are far less criminals in Switzerland per head than in America?

I dont know the stats on deaths from legally held weapons v illegal, but I doubt the number is insigificant. Kirk himself stated that the deaths to gun violence is acceptable when it preserves the 2A. I dont accept that comparison between drug related deaths and gun deaths or its relevance, deaths are deaths and it needs to be addressed.

Again its worth pointing out the the US has an unhappy and divided people. It cant be pinned on one party or another, as it has been a combination of administrations (or their paralysis) to make meaningful changes. It is a broken system a long time. The numbers of drug deaths from prescription opoids is huge so its a start to look within, policies on prescribing and dispensing opoid meds for relatively minor ailments eg. Successful class actions suits against the Sacklers for example show the self inflicted damage of vested interests and corruption. Do we need to consider the Iran Contra affair and the CIA being the biggest importer of illicit drugs and setting up the systems that are still used today, empowered and armed the cartels and created their initial wealth.

Like or loathe him but I cant fathom how constant inconsistancies in Trumps comments, contradictions, lies, in a blatant manner are just ignored. Pevious admins at least were sneaky about using plausable deniability - not right either. That one side is accuded of inflamatory rhetoric eg authoritarian leadership etc. yet that leadership uses crooked, scum, hoax, fake news, bans journos deemed unfriendly, lauds insurrection and thats what it was an attempted coup but even if that is dialled back, at the very least it was a group pf people storming the seat of parliment and occupying it (can you imagine it happening in Westminster or the Dail?).

Do you think the Epstean case is a hoax? If it is for Trump associates then it is for Clinton. Is a TV presenter qualified to run the Pentagon or a blogger the FBI? Is the flip flopping on foreign policy sensible for US interests. Should the leadeship move on from past administrations and just focus on their own plans. Should the independent Fed become a government proxy.

I get the question marks over past administrations but should the current one not move on? Russiagate, Pizzagate, Epstein Hoax, stolen elections, gerrymandring, military used for civilian matters, pals of putin, pushing key geopolitical and economic allies cloer to Chinese spheres of influence, diluting western alliaces. Is any of it tuly acceptable. Im staying away fom the illegal immigrant issue as while I think its being handled badly I do not like the abuse or circumventing the asylum process by people as it undermines the system for those who have a genuine need for international protection and it is an issue that historically has fueled movements that are on the extremes. I have an issue with IPAs mysteriously doing away with their identity papers on flights they needed paperwork to board, I would throw a good chunk of the money it costs to host IPAs at rapid processing and deportation. I come from a policing family so Id be lean right on law and order. So Im not a leftie lunatic, not even for questioning the conduct of a bunch of this US administration.

[Nesta99]

Well, they've recovered A rifle.
They say.

& they need an arrest. A suitable one.

Maybe he'd be called Lee Harvey Oswald...

[mark12345]

Ok.

About the murder of that Ukrainian girl, I take it it wasn't reported over there? It was a particularly gruesome murder and utterly without provocation. It made national news for the last few days here so I thought it would make news there? But what's notable about this story is that it actually happened on August 22. Why was it not reported until September 6/7?

The answer is our wonderful media in this country kept it quiet until social media exploded and they couldn't hide it any longer.

[Razors left peg]

A professional shooter, who only needed one bullet, but happened to leave behind a gun full of other bullets that he has gone to the trouble of engraving.... not sure that passes the smell test. It is not hard to see how conspiracy theories will go wild if they dont get this guy and have clear transparency on who he is

[Razors left peg]

Ok.

About the murder of that Ukrainian girl, I take it it wasn't reported over there? It was a particularly gruesome murder and utterly without provocation. It made national news for the last few days here so I thought it would make news there? But what's notable about this story is that it actually happened on August 22. Why was it not reported until September 6/7?

The answer is our wonderful media in this country kept it quiet until social media exploded and they couldn't hide it any longer.

The whataboutism is unbelievable. What about the 46 school shootings this year, including one yesterday.

Theres a lot of fcuked up people in this world and trying to solely blame the left as you are trying to do is disgusting

[passinginterest]

No self respecting leftie is engraving bullets. Inside job gone wrong, hired the sniper to hit his bullet proof vest and hit a few inches high. Might as well go with the wild conspiracy seeing as there's no place for logic or truth in American politics discussion. Mentally unstable and disenfranchised people with access to high grade military weapons kill people and this looks like another example. It's sad for his family, it's bound to further enflame tensions in a country that already seems on the edge. It's sad for the world that extremes seem to be winning out and it's becoming almost impossible to have genuine discussions about anything (online at least). Social media bubbles and algorithms have a lot to answer for and I think we'll see some studies in the future that will show how divisive they have been (yet any attempts to regulate them is "woke").

[joey B]

Just as a matter of interest, did the news channels over there report about the 23 year old Ukrainian girl murdered on the train in Charlotte? She survived the Russian bombings only to be stabbed to death by a crazy person in North Carolina. Did that get any ply over there?

It is one of the worst things I’ve ever seen,I don’t think it got a lot of attention but I don’t really pay much attention to big news outlets….

[Razors left peg]

Im not sure theres a single thing I agreed with Kirk on, but shooting him is disastrous for this country.

[Nesta99]

Ok.

About the murder of that Ukrainian girl, I take it it wasn't reported over there? It was a particularly gruesome murder and utterly without provocation. It made national news for the last few days here so I thought it would make news there? But what's notable about this story is that it actually happened on August 22. Why was it not reported until September 6/7?

The answer is our wonderful media in this country kept it quiet until social media exploded and they couldn't hide it any longer.

Im just wondering what the point is here. Genuinely. An attack on an immigrat, esecially a refugee from a country at war would tend to be seen as anti-immigrant and would be presumed to be perpetrated by someone on the right? But I lack detail on the case.

[Nesta99]

Im not sure theres a single thing I agreed with Kirk on, but shooting him is disastrous for this country.

I would have thanked your post but for the 'this' country, do you mean Ireland and why?

[passinginterest]

Im just wondering what the point is here. Genuinely. An attack on an immigrat, esecially a refugee from a country at war would tend to be seen as anti-immigrant and would be presumed to be perpetrated by someone on the right? But I lack detail on the case.

She was white, blonde and beautiful, the killer was black.

[Razors left peg]

I would have thanked your post but for the 'this' country, do you mean Ireland and why?

Sorry Nesta, should have clarified the US. Ive lived here for 12 years now

[mark12345]

Whataboutism? I am trying to illustrate to you that the media have a massive part to play in this. They set a narrative and try their best not to report anything that runs contrary to that narrative.

In fact I listened to a radio host this morning lay the blame for Charlie Kirk's murder squarely on the shoulders of the media.
You are correct there are plenty of cukes out there and it is suggested that the current media narrative is affecting their minds.

46 school shootings- someone said a long long time ago that we need to protect our students from such crazy people. Armed guards are at banks and stadia but our kids are not important enough to protect?

[mark12345]

Like you I am skeptical of these suspects that are announced

[Razors left peg]

Whataboutism? I am trying to illustrate to you that the media have a massive part to play in this. They set a narrative and try their best not to report anything that runs contrary to that narrative.

In fact I listened to a radio host this morning lay the blame for Charlie Kirk's murder squarely on the shoulders of the media.
You are correct there are plenty of cukes out there and it is suggested that the current media narrative is affecting their minds.

46 school shootings- someone said a long long time ago that we need to protect our students from such crazy people. Armed guards are at banks and stadia but our kids are not important enough to protect?

Or maybe as Charlie Kirk said, we should accept that shootings are an acceptable by product of the right to own guns, just like road deaths are an acceptable by product of driving?

No other country in the world has the need to have armed guards around schools to protect them, its insane that its even a thought for a solution before thinking that maybe guns should be regulated better

[mark12345]

Or maybe as Charlie Kirk said, we should accept that shootings are an acceptable by product of the right to own guns, just like road deaths are an acceptable by product of driving?

No other country in the world has the need to have armed guards around schools to protect them, its insane that its even a thought for a solution before thinking that maybe guns should be regulated better

Guns are regulated to the hilt in America but so far no one has come up with a solution for keeping them out of the hands of criminals who have no regard for and never will care about the law. Just like the illegal drugs that kill thousands of people each year in this country.

And about those school shootings, they were all done in gun free zones. You are appalled at the idea of armed guards protecting our kids? I would suggest to you that a great many of those shootings would not have happened and kids would be alive today were there armed guards on hand.

That said you may want to move your focus to the lax bail laws that let repeat offenders back onto the streets time and again.

And lastly I hope you agree with me that the initiative by the current administration to put the national guard onto the streets of DC, which is reaping handsome rewards, should be employed in every major city?

[Razors left peg]

Are you out of your mind. Having the military patrolling the streets is straight out of facist dictator handbook chapter 1. Hes using it as a tool to attack Blue cities only. When you have the President of the country saying things on Twitter that "Chicago is about to find out why it's called the Department of War", that is nothing more than a threat against his own citizens

[mark12345]

Are you out of your mind. Having the military patrolling the streets is straight out of facist dictator handbook chapter 1. Hes using it as a tool to attack Blue cities only. When you have the President of the country saying things on Twitter that "Chicago is about to find out why it's called the Department of War", that is nothing more than a threat against his own citizens

Stunning logic on your part. So this policy has stopped crime in its tracks in DC. Murders, rapes, car jackings and muggings all down in numbers, and that's a bad thing?

Have you seen the murder figures for Chicago lately? A couple of weekends ago, something like 54 shootings with 8 dead. Just in one weekend. And you're worried about a tweet that offends you?

I don't know how you think it's ok for people to be murdered in their droves everyday in these American cities (they're blue cities as you point out and mostly run by Dems) when a remedy is being offered to save lives? That logic just doesn't add up.

[tetsujin1979]

Ever wonder why trump is targeting cities in states that voted against him?
There's cities in the US with far worse records than Chicago, but are all in states that voted republican.

[Razors left peg]

Mark is ok with the SS on the streets it seems