American Politics

[seanfhear]

Deflecting again. No answer.

You've gone from 'duty to implement a manifesto' to 'ah sure I know he's corrupt but they are all the same' in 2 posts.
You do realise that Joe Biden has just pardoned a good number of his family !

Not to mention the January 6th committee and Fauci !

[osarusan]

The BBC or CNN/Fox?

BBC. I never watch the others.

[SkStu]

What a thread :D

Antifa sounds great in principle but the problem is that the definition of fascist has been *******ized to include anyone that doesnt think exactly like me/us. It just defeats the whole purpose of meaningfully combatting actual fascism and racism - and clouds the otherwise worthy principle. There is a reason they are still fairly fringe - most people look at what they do and think "I could be next". At a simple level, it is a dangerous extension of the stupid cancel culture that is also prevalent. I am anti-fascism and anti-racism (like most - 99% of - normal people) but i would never align with Antifa. There has been a lot of needless violence and criminal damage carried out in their name. No thanks.

[tetsujin1979]

"If you're against Antifa, what are you in favour of?"

I am certainly not in favour of Antifa. Their name suggests that they are anti-facist but their actions are anything but anti-facist.
Surely you agree with me that their actions in the summer of 2018 were beyond reprehensible?
So you're against the group that are against fascism. So, you're in favour of it?

[mark12345]

So you're against the group that are against fascism. So, you're in favour of it?

Playing word games now are we?

[mark12345]

You do understand how Democracy works ~ ~ President Donald J Trump has just won decisively the election on his manifesto ~ ~ He is also is a strong position in the House and Senate.

President Donald J Trump has an obligation to instigate his manifesto ~ A Democratic duty to do that !

Good point Sean. People tend to forget that Donald Trump has an obligation to keep the promises he made on the campaign trail (instigate his manifesto as you put it). Just hours in office, he has ordered the release of the J6 prisoners (some who haven't even been charged let alone gone to trial). Promises made, promises kept.

[Real ale Madrid]

What a thread :D

Antifa sounds great in principle but the problem is that the definition of fascist has been *******ized to include anyone that doesnt think exactly like me/us. It just defeats the whole purpose of meaningfully combatting actual fascism and racism - and clouds the otherwise worthy principle. There is a reason they are still fairly fringe - most people look at what they do and think "I could be next". At a simple level, it is a dangerous extension of the stupid cancel culture that is also prevalent. I am anti-fascism and anti-racism (like most - 99% of - normal people) but i would never align with Antifa. There has been a lot of needless violence and criminal damage carried out in their name. No thanks.

ANTIFA is just one of the many things Trump supporters shout when pressed on his failings.

Justify 6th Jan? - But what about ANTIFA! It not really relevant to Trump supporters who they are..

Withdraw from climate agreements. - LOOK.- CHINA!

Trump is a convicted Felon! - BUT SLEEPY JOE IS A CROOK (apparently) .

Seanfhear has mentioned the Biden pardons 3 times in the last 2 days each time as if it's somehow fresh information.

It goes on and on.

Its FAUCI
It's those BLM people
It's FENTANYL
It's MEXICAN GANGS
It's TARIFFS

and the MSM like *checks notes - the BBC are covering all this up..

Nonsense.

[pineapple stu]

"I would be happy to discuss the BBC at some point later," from a previous post. The reasoning - the BBC is not in the news at this time. The pardons by Biden and Trump are. Feel free to speak in detail about both, like I asked you to do.
No, I asked you about the BBC in the context of the pardons. I used their reporting to shed some light on Biden's pardons, and your response was to say the BBC wasn't a reputable news source. I'm asking you why, given you think Mark Levin is a reputable source. So far, your only response has been to argue it's because American media sites have likened Trump to Hitler. Surely even you can see that argument makes no sense?



Actually ~ 2% is a big number whey you consider that the BBC was at one time greatly respected in the UK ~ It isn't anymore, when you consider all of the Defund The BBC Campaigns !
No it's not?

And any idiot can start a campaign or a petition. Doesn't mean anything.

[pineapple stu]

BBC. I never watch the others.

What's happened with BBC's Israel coverage? I haven't been watching it at all, so curious on that

[mark12345]

No, I asked you about the BBC in the context of the pardons. I used their reporting to shed some light on Biden's pardons, and your response was to say the BBC wasn't a reputable news source. I'm asking you why, given you think Mark Levin is a reputable source. So far, your only response has been to argue it's because American media sites have likened Trump to Hitler. Surely even you can see that argument makes no sense?.

For the love of God will ya stop beating the dead horse. For the umpteenth time I would be happy to discuss the BBC "at a later time." Remind me, was there any other element to our ongoing discussion, like something I asked you to do (instead of me answering the questions all of the time). How about you do that first, and we can progress from there.

P.S. Mark Levin is a reputable source, a very reputable source. He's a legal scholar, has a national audience and has some very high-profile guests on his show. He is well thought of in conservative circles and is an authority on the constitution. What exactly do you dislike about him? I'd be interested to know.

[SkStu]

ANTIFA is just one of the many things Trump supporters shout when pressed on his failings.

Justify 6th Jan? - But what about ANTIFA! It not really relevant to Trump supporters who they are..

Withdraw from climate agreements. - LOOK.- CHINA!

Trump is a convicted Felon! - BUT SLEEPY JOE IS A CROOK (apparently) .

Seanfhear has mentioned the Biden pardons 3 times in the last 2 days each time as if it's somehow fresh information.

It goes on and on.

Its FAUCI
It's those BLM people
It's FENTANYL
It's MEXICAN GANGS
It's TARIFFS

and the MSM like *checks notes - the BBC are covering all this up..

Nonsense.

I wouldn’t argue against a lot of that. I just am not a fan of Antifa. In the same way I’m not a fan of the Proud Boys or whatever bunch of losers is applicable. Extremism just doesn’t do it for me no matter what shade of sh!te is being spewed. For what it’s worth, and believe it or not, I’m not a massive fan of Trump (I felt he was treated a bit unfairly throughout his first term but that’s different) - but I also don’t think he’s Hitler/fascist/racist.

[pineapple stu]

For the love of God will ya stop beating the dead horse.
I'd be happy to - once you answer the question. It's very relevant to the discussion given you tried to use the BBC's lack of reputation as a journalistic outlet to dismiss comments discussed in the thread (specifically, why Biden pardoned Fauci and those who tried the rioters Trump has since pardoned)

And it's even more relevant given you now argue Levin is "a very reputable source" and ask me why I disagree. You ask me the same question you refuse to answer!

And you know what? I'll answer it. In fact, I've already answered it - I noted pages back that he was renowned for - and has a penchant for - outrage over substance. He's known for being uncivil, which is unhelpful in debate. He's also demonstrated a clear bias in his comments. I even gave a proper link with a selected quote to back my views up. (Let's not forget the video of his you linked to make a point wasn't even there!)

See how easy that is? Your turn now.

Why do you think the BBC is no longer a reputable journalistic outlet, in contradiction to an available evidence and views, including almost everyone on this thread? And let's not hear the same nonsense about how it's because some American media likened Trump to Hitler. That's not relevant

[osarusan]

What's happened with BBC's Israel coverage? I haven't been watching it at all, so curious on that
Well firstly, very little coverage of daily atrocities.

Secondly, the language used, where Israelis are murdered but Palestinians die, and so on.

It got to the point that I no longer check the BBC for news related to that. I go to The Independent site instead.

[joey B]

Well firstly, very little coverage of daily atrocities.

Secondly, the language used, where Israelis are murdered but Palestinians die, and so on.

It got to the point that I no longer check the BBC for news related to that. I go to The Independent site instead.

Alot of news outlets have done the same and it’s disgraceful,wasn’t it the BBC who used videos of Israeli hooligans going on the rampage in Amsterdam and said it was a video of them being attacked by locals ?? The word “pogrom” was used aswell I think……

[osarusan]

Alot of news outlets have done the same and it’s disgraceful,wasn’t it the BBC who used videos of Israeli hooligans going on the rampage in Amsterdam and said it was a video of them being attacked by locals ?? The word “pogrom” was used aswell I think……

Yeah, that was one example of the BBC, and as you say, many other media, behaving absolutely disgracefully in terms of their failure to correct a story.

[mark12345]

I'd be happy to - once you answer the question. It's very relevant to the discussion given you tried to use the BBC's lack of reputation as a journalistic outlet to dismiss comments discussed in the thread (specifically, why Biden pardoned Fauci and those who tried the rioters Trump has since pardoned)

And it's even more relevant given you now argue Levin is "a very reputable source" and ask me why I disagree. You ask me the same question you refuse to answer!

And you know what? I'll answer it. In fact, I've already answered it - I noted pages back that he was renowned for - and has a penchant for - outrage over substance. He's known for being uncivil, which is unhelpful in debate. He's also demonstrated a clear bias in his comments. I even gave a proper link with a selected quote to back my views up. (Let's not forget the video of his you linked to make a point wasn't even there!)

See how easy that is? Your turn now.

Why do you think the BBC is no longer a reputable journalistic outlet, in contradiction to an available evidence and views, including almost everyone on this thread? And let's not hear the same nonsense about how it's because some American media likened Trump to Hitler. That's not relevant

Wow!
What were you asked to speak about and what did you actually speak about? Where does Mark Levin come into presidential pardons?
If you want to keep playing cat and mouse you are welcome to do that. I'm afraid I won't be participating in your game.

[pineapple stu]

Nope. You specifically asked me about Mark Levin. You in fact said (and I quote) "P.S. Mark Levin is a reputable source, a very reputable source. [...] What exactly do you dislike about him? I'd be interested to know."

But now I've answered your direct question, your position becomes "What were you asked to speak about and what did you actually speak about? Where does Mark Levin come into presidential pardons?"

We can all see your argument is all over the shop, and it severely undermines your credibility here.

Anyway, as you've avoided my question again, I'll ask it once more. Why do you think the BBC is no longer a reputable journalistic outlet, in contradiction to an available evidence and views, including almost everyone on this thread? And let's not hear the same nonsense about how it's because some American media likened Trump to Hitler. That's not relevant.

[mark12345]

Nope. You specifically asked me about Mark Levin. You in fact said (and I quote) "P.S. Mark Levin is a reputable source, a very reputable source. [...] What exactly do you dislike about him? I'd be interested to know."

But now I've answered your direct question, your position becomes "What were you asked to speak about and what did you actually speak about? Where does Mark Levin come into presidential pardons?"

We can all see your argument is all over the shop, and it severely undermines your credibility here.

Anyway, as you've avoided my question again, I'll ask it once more. Why do you think the BBC is no longer a reputable journalistic outlet, in contradiction to an available evidence and views, including almost everyone on this thread? And let's not hear the same nonsense about how it's because some American media likened Trump to Hitler. That's not relevant.

Nuts.

[pineapple stu]

Why?

You ask me my view on something, I reply, you tell me that's not the question you asked, I tell you (quoting your post) it was, and you think that's nuts?

Isn't it interesting how you're practically unable to form a cogent argument?

Compare that with when I asked osarusan about his criticism of the BBC (which came with the initial caveat of "In general they're good") - he was able to make a couple of brief rational and specific points to support his view (on Israel/Palestine coverage in particular), which added to the debate.

You in the meantime have first off tried to rationalise your view of the BBC by saying some American media likens Trump to Hitler, then you run away like a child saying you don't want to answer the question, and now you resort to insults.

You could have just answered the question in all that time. But I suspect you don't actually know why your view of the BBC is what it is - you're just parroting stuff you've heard on a very narrow-focus range of social media outlets and you don't actually understand what it is you're saying. So when you're asked to support your view, you can't.

[Real ale Madrid]

1882254814542799157


Between our own sniveling gombeens trying to sit on both sides of the oireachtas benches here and this rabbiting moron taking office again, the political landscape is pretty depressing at the moment.

[seanfhear]

1882254814542799157


Between our own sniveling gombeens trying to sit on both sides of the oireachtas benches here and this rabbiting moron taking office again, the political landscape is pretty depressing at the moment. I blame the Politicians that brought us to this place in the first place !

Why do Politicians get to walk away from the mess's that they leave behind them ? !

[Real ale Madrid]

I blame the Politicians that brought us to this place in the first place !

Why do Politicians get to walk away from the mess's that they leave behind them ? !

I mean no one is more critical of politicians than me but how is "I don't like the look of you" now acceptable. He's an awful awful human being.

[seanfhear]

I mean no one is more critical of politicians than me but how is "I don't like the look of you" now acceptable. He's an awful awful human being.
Do you like the look of Donald Trump ? ! ( wink )

[mark12345]

Yeah, that was one example of the BBC, and as you say, many other media, behaving absolutely disgracefully in terms of their failure to correct a story.

And another example of media deception from this mornings New York Post.

https://nypost.com/2025/01/23/us-news/ex-politico-reporters-reveal-cowardly-editors-buried-bombshell-hunter-biden-laptop-stories-other-scoops/

[tetsujin1979]

I'm certainly glad he didn't get elected president

[Real ale Madrid]

And another example of media deception from this mornings New York Post.

https://nypost.com/2025/01/23/us-news/ex-politico-reporters-reveal-cowardly-editors-buried-bombshell-hunter-biden-laptop-stories-other-scoops/

3 pages of the BBC discussion, now you are posting a link and it's to the nypost.

It's like being on the recieving end of an elaborate prank.

[pineapple stu]

Tee hee!

I'm minded of the legendary "Dumbass (https://foot.ie/threads/81119-Dumbass?highlight=dumbass)" thread from years ago. I can't think why :)

[Real ale Madrid]

1884310665680282008

america first!

[dahamsta]

Sure Trump is great!

[osarusan]

Trump's press conference in the wake of the plane/helicopter crash must be one of the most tone-deaf moments of American presidency I've ever seen.

He had one job - to console and send thoughts and prayers, but he could not resist banging on about diversity and weakness. Then he's asked if he'll visit the site, and he asks if they want him to go swimming.

Normally I'd say he is astonishingly out of touch, but actually he has a cohort of fanatical supporters who will support and defend him, not matter how utterly stupid or crass his behaviour. I guess he is in touch with them.

[Razors left peg]

Trump's press conference in the wake of the plane/helicopter crash must be one of the most tone-deaf moments of American presidency I've ever seen.

He had one job - to console and send thoughts and prayers, but he could not resist banging on about diversity and weakness. Then he's asked if he'll visit the site, and he asks if they want him to go swimming.

Normally I'd say he is astonishingly out of touch, but actually he has a cohort of fanatical supporters who will support and defend him, not matter how utterly stupid or crass his behaviour. I guess he is in touch with them.

If you elect a cnut don't be surprised when he acts like a cnut. The fact that we have 4 years of this kind of stuff to look forward to is utterly depressing

[Real ale Madrid]

Trump's press conference in the wake of the plane/helicopter crash must be one of the most tone-deaf moments of American presidency I've ever seen.

He had one job - to console and send thoughts and prayers, but he could not resist banging on about diversity and weakness. Then he's asked if he'll visit the site, and he asks if they want him to go swimming.

Normally I'd say he is astonishingly out of touch, but actually he has a cohort of fanatical supporters who will support and defend him, not matter how utterly stupid or crass his behaviour. I guess he is in touch with them.

He basically said : "Woman drivers - what do you expect? "

The dregs of human society.

[The Fly]

Trump is very much an outlier of course but I do get amazed that people are still shocked or surprised at how politics is changing across many of the so-called Western countries. This has been coming for a long time and it's essentially because the culture, mores, standards, social fabric and just general human behaviour in said countries has changed enormously in the last 50 to 60 years. And politics, like everything else, is simply downstream of that change.

Not only has it been coming for a long time but it's here to stay. So...buckle up!

[Dermobohs]

Anyone, any single one who supports or excuses trump now, is quite simply either insane or a neo nazi.

[joey B]

Anyone, any single one who supports or excuses trump now, is quite simply either insane or a neo nazi.

His victim blaming of Ukraine is disgraceful,a pox of a man….

[osarusan]

This is beyond mental.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5HlrkLQWnc

[CraftyToePoke]

No more tunnels
& a funkee beat

Who doesn't want that

[the 12 th man]

I have never seen 2 senior politicians speak like that exchange between Trump and Zelensky today...Trump also doubting he called Zelensky a dictator..it was only a couple of days ago...

[seanfhear]

You have to wonder if Zelensky was on the Columbian marching powder, to go in to the White-House and behave like that ? !

[Razors left peg]

You have to wonder if Zelensky was on the Columbian marching powder, to go in to the White-House and behave like that ? !

Wait... you're blaming Zelensky for today?

If there was ever proof needed that Trump is bought and paid for by Putin it was that utter disgrace today. Vance spent the entire time trying to keep his tongue firm up Trumps ar$ehole in a show of sycophancy that would only be rivaled in North Korea.

[seanfhear]

Wait... you're blaming Zelensky for today?

If there was ever proof needed that Trump is bought and paid for by Putin it was that utter disgrace today. Vance spent the entire time trying to keep his tongue firm up Trumps ar$ehole in a show of sycophancy that would only be rivaled in North Korea.
Nobody in their right mind would go to meet an American President in the White-House, and behave the way that Zelensky behaved, unless they were crazy or high as a kite !

Do you think that Zelensky achieved one single thing for the Ukraine today ?

[The Fly]

Nobody in their right mind would go to meet an American President in the White-House, and behave the way that Zelensky behaved, unless they were crazy or high as a kite !

Do you think that Zelensky achieved one single thing for the Ukraine today ?
Err…be more specific.

[seanfhear]

Err…be more specific.
Do you think that Zelensky achieved one single thing for the Ukrainian people, or the Ukraine by they way he carried on today ?

The answer is ~ Zelensky achieved nothing for the Ukrainian people or the Ukraine by the way he behaved today !

[Razors left peg]

Do you think that Zelensky achieved one single thing for the Ukrainian people, or the Ukraine by they way he carried on today ?

The answer is ~ Zelensky achieved nothing for the Ukrainian people or the Ukraine by the way he behaved today !


You think he should have gone on bended knee to kiss the ring of Emperor Trump? Zelensky was treated in way that I have never seen any leader get treated in the White house. Maybe Trump was on edge because Macron already made a show of him this week so he needed to bring in Vance as back up.

[The Fly]

Do you think that Zelensky achieved one single thing for the Ukrainian people, or the Ukraine by they way he carried on today ?

The answer is ~ Zelensky achieved nothing for the Ukrainian people or the Ukraine by the way he behaved today !
I’m asking you to be more specific about this behaviour you’re referring to, not about what he achieved or didn’t achieve for Ukraine.

[seanfhear]

You think he should have gone on bended knee to kiss the ring of Emperor Trump? Zelensky was treated in way that I have never seen any leader get treated in the White house. Maybe Trump was on edge because Macron already made a show of him this week so he needed to bring in Vance as back up.
Can you or any other poster answer the question that I asked, in the posts above ?

Why would Zelensky be so, stupid / arrogant / egotistical, to behave in the manner he did in the American White-House today ?

How did Zelensky think this sort of behaviour would go down with the recently elected President of America ?


I’m asking you to be more specific about this behaviour you’re referring to, not about what he achieved or didn’t achieve for Ukraine.
Do you think that Zelensky showed the due respect to the office of the Presidency of America and to the office of the Vice-Presidency of America ?

You do realise that Zelensky was looking for help and support, from the President and Vice-President of America today ?

[The Fly]

Do you think that Zelensky showed the due respect to the office of the Presidency of America and to the office of the Vice-Presidency of America ?

You do realise that Zelensky was looking for help and support, from the President and Vice-President of America today ?
Yes you’ve said that already. I’m asking you to cite the disrespectful behaviour.

Zelensky’s misstep was to mention America’s safe position with an ocean on either side and how at some point it will feel threat from Russia…which was red rag to a bull for Trump; and then he didn’t remain at least relatively silent given who he’s dealing with. Is that it btw?

[seanfhear]

Yes you’ve said that already. I’m asking you to cite the disrespectful behaviour.

Zelensky’s misstep was to mention America’s safe position with an ocean on either side and how at some point it will feel threat from Russia…which was red rag to a bull for Trump; and then he didn’t remain at least relatively silent given who he’s dealing with. Is that it btw?The sit-down press event was a disaster due to Zelensky not showing due respect to the People he came looking for help from ~ If Zelensky was un-willing to show due respect to the people he was looking for help from, in the American White-House, then Zelensky should just not have come to the White-House.

Zelensky achieved nothing for the Ukrainian People or the Ukraine by his behaviour today ~ ~ All of this should have gone on behind closed doors away from a public press event ~ ~ Zelensky has done huge damage to the Ukrainian people and the Ukraine by his stupid behaviour today ~ ~ That is completely clear.

[mark12345]

The sit-down press event was a disaster due to Zelensky not showing due respect to the People he came looking for help from ~ If Zelensky was un-willing to show due respect to the people he was looking for help from, in the American White-House, then Zelensky should just not have come to the White-House.

Zelensky achieved nothing for the Ukrainian People or the Ukraine by his behaviour today ~ ~ All of this should have gone on behind closed doors away from a public press event ~ ~ Zelensky has done huge damage to the Ukrainian people and the Ukraine by his stupid behaviour today ~ ~ That is completely clear.

You hit the nail on the head Sean, as usual. Zelensky showed zero respect to the president of the United States. Even if he wasn't the president, his country (Trump's) has given billions to Ukraine, and Zelensky showed absolutely no gratitude. He (Zelensky) has been used to dealing with the previous regime (the most corrupt in US history) where money was printed for him at the American taxpayers' expense. And he himself (Zelensky) said last week that he didn't know where $100 billion of the money went to. And now he's back in Washington looking for more?

And I was glad to see Trump put him in his place - asking him if he remembered him (Trump) giving him those javelin missiles for the defence of his country when all Obama gave him was blankets. Zelensky has become a world traveler in the past few years and hasn't met a camera lens he doesn't like, while the poor citizens of his country are left to fight the battle. I honestly don't know where we go from here but there was a great deal on the table for everyone - Russia would have been out of Ukraine, the Ukrainians would have had a rare mineral deal with the US which would have brought a degree of military protection and Europe also misses out if I am not mistaken.

[mark12345]

Wait... you're blaming Zelensky for today?

If there was ever proof needed that Trump is bought and paid for by Putin it was that utter disgrace today. Vance spent the entire time trying to keep his tongue firm up Trumps ar$ehole in a show of sycophancy that would only be rivaled in North Korea.

Ok, you don't like Trump - I got it. But can you please explain how Trump is bought and paid for by Putin? Trump has more money than he could ever spend and doesn't even take a salary from his position as president (gives it to charity I believe). He could not be bought by the Washington establishment - that's why they hate him and have tried to impeach him twice and have investigated him for almost 10 years now, and found nothing I might add. But he's bought and paid for by Putin, a man he's met probably 5 times in his life?