FAI Invites First Division Expressions of Interest

[TheBoss]

The Football Association of Ireland (FAI) invites expressions of interest from clubs/entities interested in participating in the Airtricity League First Division for the 2014 Season.

http://www.fai.ie/domestic-a-grassroots/airtricity-league/news/103418-fai-invites-first-division-expressions-of-interest.html

They want more teams in the 1st Division?

Are they crazy, we need One Division League, not this.

[Longfordian]

Well if they want two divisions and it seems they're set on it, they need more teams. Who will actually be interested is another matter. Why did Tralee get turned down last time? Not sure who else would be suitable and interested. It's a tough gig.

[Jofspring]

Slap a few more teams in that will struggle for a few years until ultimately pulling out.

I don't like the idea if the league being totally closed off to new teams but at the moment unless clubs not in the league have someone pumping decent money into them and have big potential for crowds what's the point on them entering.

Is there any cities or big towns out there that don't have a LOI team within 45 minutes drive that they will be competing with for players? I can't think of any at the moment.

[nigel-harps1954]

Fingers would be crossed to see the likes of Monaghan, Castlebar, Kerry, Kilkenny, and such places with no team already. Obviously we'll be seeing a Galway team back.

I'd even welcome someone like Fanad United. Far enough from Harps/Derry so as not to cause any real bother to support and still in a large enough area to get a crowd of their own.

Can't see many applications though sadly.

[Sam_Heggy]

Fanad United?? Are you mad?

We have bother enough with Sligo and Derry taking players without another side coming into the equation.

Agree with the OP, 1 division next season is the only way.

[Derry]

Fanad United?? Are you mad?

We have bother enough with Sligo and Derry taking players without another side coming into the equation.

Agree with the OP, 1 division next season is the only way.

What are you on about. There's been ten times the number of Derry men who played for Harps, than Harps men playing for Derry city. :p

[Town Legend]

It could end up like the last couple of seasons. FAI invite applications, a couple of teams apply, FAI turn them all down!! One league needed to survive. 8 team first division is a joke. A mate of mine not from Ireland thought it was only the top half of the league they were showing in the table!!

[Spudulika]

The only way this is going to work is 1 division for 2-3 years, but build the regions into a feeder system and introduce 3 up, 3 down, with 3 prime feeder regionally based divisions below. It makes football in Ireland competitive, will develop interest and after 5-6 years see the league grow. However there are too many vested interests at all levels of the game to make it happen. We have a great product bht it seems that either the FAI and/or the clubs are ashamed of it, or that they are so keen to protect it that they're crushing in to their breasts.

[Charlie Darwin]

The only way this is going to work is 1 division for 2-3 years, but build the regions into a feeder system and introduce 3 up, 3 down, with 3 prime feeder regionally based divisions below. It makes football in Ireland competitive, will develop interest and after 5-6 years see the league grow. However there are too many vested interests at all levels of the game to make it happen. We have a great product bht it seems that either the FAI and/or the clubs are ashamed of it, or that they are so keen to protect it that they're crushing in to their breasts.
Impossible without reverting to winter football or the unlikely event of junior football moving to a summer schedule.

[Spudulika]

Impossible without reverting to winter football or the unlikely event of junior football moving to a summer schedule.
You are 100% correct, though the FAI can make it possible, and drag the clubs along. LOI and junior clubs, the majority, won't see why they should change or do something different.

[Lim till i die]

Imagine if you had a party and nobody came :(

[NeverFeltBetter]

Hasn't FAI sought applications every year for the last few years? Doesn't mean anyone is actually getting in. As mentioned the list of viable candidates is extremely limited, and limited even further by genuine interest.

[culloty82]

Sadly, I've grown resigned to the realisation that there will probably never be a Kerry representative in the League - the KDL have no interest in the concept, the individual clubs wouldn't support an idea that weakens their challenge, even if it's for the good of the county, and while communities fully support events to support their local clubs, it appears unlikely that that would be extended to a FORAS-style membership scheme for a Kerry team.

[cob655]

The only way for this league to drastically improve the public image and interest is to truly make it a national league. At the moment we have 12 counties represented within the league which leaves 14 unaccounted for. So that's 14 counties for the most part that have no interest in a so called national league and as thus most follow the EPL or other sky sports covered leagues.
Here is a list in order of population of the counties which don't have a LOI team.
Kildare pop.210,312
Meath pop.184,135 (Drogs but only partically)
Tipperary pop.158,754
Kerry pop.145,502
Mayo pop. 130,638
Clare pop.117,196
Kilkenny pop.95,419
Laois pop.80,559
Offaly pop.76,687
Cavan pop.73,183
Roscommon pop.64,065
Monaghan pop.60,483
Carlow pop.54,612
Leitrim pop.31,796

By encouraging teams from these counties to enter the LOI at some level we would create a truly national league with the national interest to merry it. It would therefor also receive greater media coverage and create a new buzz within the league.
I work in Dublin with people from all counties, most are massive soccer fans but do not have a team in the LOI within their own county so just support the EPL. This has to change if we want the league to reach its potential.
If i had my way, id propose a premier div, followed by a first div, followed by a 3rd(maybe northeast/southwest split to help with travel expenses)

[Jofspring]

Wicklow - Bray Wanderers
Westmeath - Athlone Town

Kildare had Kildare County, started off great crowds fell away fast. Kilkenny by the end were luck to have 100 at a game.

Those populations seem very large also.

[cob655]

thanks, i flew through that, so i knew i was bound to get something wrong..

[culloty82]

The only way for this league to drastically improve the public image and interest is to truly make it a national league. At the moment we have 12 counties represented within the league which leaves 14 unaccounted for. So that's 14 counties for the most part that have no interest in a so called national league and as thus most follow the EPL or other sky sports covered leagues.
Here is a list in order of population of the counties which don't have a LOI team.
Kildare pop.210,312
Meath pop.184,135 (Drogs but only partically)
Tipperary pop.158,754
Kerry pop.145,502
Mayo pop. 130,638
Clare pop.117,196
Kilkenny pop.95,419
Laois pop.80,559
Offaly pop.76,687
Cavan pop.73,183
Roscommon pop.64,065
Monaghan pop.60,483
Carlow pop.54,612
Leitrim pop.31,796

By encouraging teams from these counties to enter the LOI at some level we would create a truly national league with the national interest to merry it. It would therefor also receive greater media coverage and create a new buzz within the league.
I work in Dublin with people from all counties, most are massive soccer fans but do not have a team in the LOI within their own county so just support the EPL. This has to change if we want the league to reach its potential.
If i had my way, id propose a premier div, followed by a first div, followed by a 3rd(maybe northeast/southwest split to help with travel expenses)

Only the counties in bold have traditionally had reasonably strong clubs at junior level, but who knows, perhaps representative sides might spark an interest that has previously been lacking. Even in Scotland, where, bankruptcies aside, the lower divisions have been largely frozen in aspic over the decades, the winners of the Highland and Lowland Leagues will play off for the right to play the bottom League club in a decider, so a similar arrangement might encourage rural clubs to get involved, if as you say, a geographic structure can be arranged.

[outspoken]

As far as I can see its far too expensive for any new club to enter with no financial return. Any new sides looking to enter should have the 19k entry fee waived and it is very unrealistic to expect them to have any sort of proper 'stadiums' so maybe lower the entry standards, if fahys field and the drom can get a license then why can't someone like Tralee.

[Kiki Balboa]

If it was to be done correctly, clubs would be picked 2-3 years in advance and would help develop, especially in off field matters like keeping expenses down, marketing and how to increase revenue streams expected from a junior team to a league of Ireland team, which could be done by spending time with existing clubs. Also it would give them time to develop stadiums (?) and that. That's even before the playing side of things.

Agree with the other poster that an environment where all clubs want to move up the first division is what is really needed, the fact the they make such a big loss on registration and little money on prize money probably puts teams off.

P.S the areas most capable of having a teams must be kildare and fingal, with the populations they have, Maybe any junior teams their able to step up ? maybe shelbourne would consider doing a Sham rovers and moving out their ? is their any teams in west dublin either ?

[pineapple stu]

At the moment we have 12 counties represented within the league which leaves 14 unaccounted for.
You've left Derry out there somewhere.

[Spudulika]

You've left Derry out there somewhere.

So did Mick Collins, though FG won't admit it.

[peadar1987]

P.S the areas most capable of having a teams must be kildare and fingal, with the populations they have, Maybe any junior teams their able to step up ? maybe shelbourne would consider doing a Sham rovers and moving out their ? is their any teams in west dublin either ?

Both tried and failed (although especially in the case of Sporting Fingal, it was more a case of being muppets and overspending than poor crowds. Their attendances were more than enough to sustain a club spending within its means)

There was talk of Bohs moving out to near the airport, but there was all sorts of shenanigans with them selling Dalyer, and then the property market crashed, so that put that one out of the question. St. Pat's would probably be the most "West Dublin" of the clubs, seeing as Shams are in Wicklow and all.

South Dublin is a huge catchment area with only UCD (whose association with the University doesn't help them with attendances unfortunately).




For what it's worth, I'd like to see a proper integrated pyramid system, even if that means a return to winter football. Ireland should be able to support maybe 30 professional or semi-professional clubs. So all format discussions aside, you'd have a top flight with stringent requirements on grounds, finances, coaching structures, etc. A division below it with less harsh requirements, then a fully regionalised division below that with only financial requirements, to stop teams going bust every ten minutes, where the lower end of the semi-pro teams would be mixing it up with sides towards the top of the amateur pyramid, and sides who ticked a certain number of boxes on ground, training and financial could be inserted into the system if the situation required (which would save reconstituted sides like FORAS and GUST having to start in the 15th division of the local regional set-up)

[Mad Moose]

Fanad United?? Are you mad?

We have bother enough with Sligo and Derry taking players without another side coming into the equation.

Agree with the OP, 1 division next season is the only way.

Absolutely agree. There's no future in that prospect whatsoever and as for the lure of Donegal lads to Derry. Inishowen is a significant area of the county where players look more toward Derry than Ballybofey for League of Ireland football. And south of Barnesmore gap players have an eye toward Sligo Rovers.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Any Dublin clubs who might like to have a go?

[Charlie Darwin]

Any Dublin clubs who might like to have a go?
Like who? I'd imagine most LSL sides a) couldn't afford the step up, b) their home venues wouldn't even be a patch on Drom and c) they probably don't want their financials being looked over anyway. Any team that made the step up would probably have to drop all their ex-LOI players who are being paid under the table and still find the money to enter the league and probably rent a stadium from one of their other Dublin clubs. Generally speaking, if a club hasn't already expressed an interest they're a long way from applying.

[Trainee]

With only 1 team in Galway next year confirmed, if nobody applies their will only be 7 teams in first div next season, surely that's why Fai looking for clubs to apply this year

[Redzer]

With only 1 team in Galway next year confirmed
Where is this confirmed?

[Trainee]

Where is this confirmed?

FAI confirmed this a long time ago when the O Connor report came out, Talks are at advanced stage between Meruve, Salthill, GUST & Galway FA. It is proposed all the parties will have one member of the board of new club (don't have any further info),but I would expect more info on proposed new club will come out in next few weeks

[Redzer]

FAI confirmed this a long time ago when the O Connor report came out, Talks are at advanced stage between Meruve, Salthill, GUST & Galway FA. It is proposed all the parties will have one member of the board of new club (don't have any further info),but I would expect more info on proposed new club will come out in next few weeks
I thought it was a wish of both the FAI and football in galway in general. Didn't realise it was official. I wish ye well, but I think ye need to get it together now, not in a few weeks. next season is not that far away

[NeverFeltBetter]

The FAI confirmed that it was what they wanted to happen. I think its far from confirmed in reality, especially with Mervue challenging for a play-off place and GUST getting their U-19 application rejected.

[Charlie Darwin]

They really are a step ahead of the rest, the FAI. They wanted one team in Galway, and most people would have looked at Galway United and said that's it. But they had a better plan - they brought in two more Galway teams, knowing they'd all eventually go bust and have to merge. That's why we pay the FAI so much - they're always thinking a step ahead of us mere mortals.

[Sean South]

The only way for this league to drastically improve the public image and interest is to truly make it a national league. At the moment we have 12 counties represented within the league which leaves 14 unaccounted for. So that's 14 counties for the most part that have no interest in a so called national league and as thus most follow the EPL or other sky sports covered leagues.
Here is a list in order of population of the counties which don't have a LOI team.
Kildare pop.210,312
Meath pop.184,135 (Drogs but only partically)
Tipperary pop.158,754
Kerry pop.145,502
Mayo pop. 130,638
Clare pop.117,196
Kilkenny pop.95,419
Laois pop.80,559
Offaly pop.76,687
Cavan pop.73,183
Roscommon pop.64,065
Monaghan pop.60,483
Carlow pop.54,612
Leitrim pop.31,796

By encouraging teams from these counties to enter the LOI at some level we would create a truly national league with the national interest to merry it. It would therefor also receive greater media coverage and create a new buzz within the league.
I work in Dublin with people from all counties, most are massive soccer fans but do not have a team in the LOI within their own county so just support the EPL. This has to change if we want the league to reach its potential.
If i had my way, id propose a premier div, followed by a first div, followed by a 3rd(maybe northeast/southwest split to help with travel expenses)
Anyone who thinks football can follow the GAA model of county clubs hasn't a clue about football.

[bennocelt]

Anyone who thinks football can follow the GAA model of county clubs hasn't a clue about football.

Exactly, the product is fine, Irish people just dont like live football

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Exactly, the product is fine, Irish people just dont like live football

Unless it involves them getting on a plane to the UK. Maybe if every team built an airport......

[peadar1987]

Exactly, the product is fine, Irish people just dont like live football

They do, just they seem to prefer it on a TV in a pub.

The trick is making them realise that it's even better to actually be at the thing.

[Terry]

The FAI confirmed that it was what they wanted to happen. I think its far from confirmed in reality, especially with Mervue challenging for a play-off place and GUST getting their U-19 application rejected.

IT has been confirmed,just not publicly. You could yet see Galway United return next year in the premier league! GUST have no u19 team so Mervue and salthill still have an outlet for their u18's. This then would give developing talent a better chance when taking the big step up to senior football, where GUFC will have 1st refusal on the players at both clubs

[Schumi]

You could yet see Galway United return next year in the premier league!
If Mervue get promoted, you mean? Or are we having another DVD competition?

[Ezeikial]

where GUFC will have 1st refusal on the players at both clubs

What does this mean?

What happens if Galway and another club want to sign a player on amateur terms with Mervue or Salthill?

Are you suggesting that Galway will have some type of preferential rights? How would that be enforced if the player did not want to sign?

[Nesta99]

The issue is not with live football or the product - LoI is almost like having a guilty pleasure, people are interested but dont admit to it. Eg there is usually one person in every pub that is a rabid Man U, liverpool, Celtic etc fan, the most vocal person in the place, the one who swears at the big screen roaring instructions at players, and looks like at any monemt he is gonna put his pint through the TV. LoI gets a mention and superfan starts frothing at the mouth and ranting about how ****e LoI is and who would wanna watch? others just agree for peace and subject is dropped. Its just not trendy to follow LoI and those that do often are on the recieving end of scorn (though we know better as we are real football fans yeah :rolleyes:). There are so many issues to deal with...so the one thing that could start a turn around is for Sky to to do for LoI what they have done for darts - superfan who lives life my the doctrine of Sky would overnight believe being a LoI fans is cool beause Sky sports says so. Its a limited and quick fix but all there is at the moment imo. Friday night football, Oriel Park, big crowd, controversy, goals, sending off - add a bit of SP1 razmataz and there is your produt in its best light (not because of Dundalk, just happens to be the stand out game and one was got over on the mighty Shamrock Rovers which garners its own type of attention). After this next is infrastructure, the two rovers have 2 of the best grounds and the highest gates, Cork and Lims are anomolies here and probably sorted with some onfield success. Sometimes the fixes are too deeply thought about like season played, community liason, dublin centric irish media coverage if any at all, community club, ownership types blah blah

[pineapple stu]

the two rovers have 2 of the best grounds and the highest gates
You can't make a comment like that without trying to show a correlation between best grounds and highest gates. Especially when, as you note, Cork and Limerick have better grounds than both.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I have never, ever witnessed a scene like the one Nesta described above. If anything, I've seen more scorn the other way (and by that, I mean a tiny amount).

We're also way off the OP. Does anyone know, with anything approaching certainty, of a club that has an interest in trying to get into the FD? GUST obviously want back in, we've know that for a while, but anyone else? Is it just the FAI going through the motions?

[Nesta99]

Damn UCD fans looking for evidence based information - will i get away without referencing? Its all on the attendance thread....

Taken from week 19

Tallaght: 2927
Sligo: 2621
Cork: 1979
Limerick: 1942

Top 4 attendances at the to 4 grounds.

Dundalk: 1760
Derry: 1588
Bohs: 1552
Pats: 1368
Shels: 1041
Bray: 959
Drogs: 893
UCD: 420

Ok Pats are a fly in the ointment with a decent ground and top of the league - just a strange one when european games indicate an ability to attract more.
Dundalk (excluding away section), Derry, Bohs, and Shels for one reason or another are mediocre grounds with the Brandywell the best of the three. Bray and Drogs next. With UCD again an odd one to call as the Bowl is fine for purpose but small, open and lacking atmosphere - Drogs ground is in a bad state but generates a cracking atmosphere so there are variable to consider!

[Nesta99]

I have never, ever witnessed a scene like the one Nesta described above. If anything, I've seen more scorn the other way (and by that, I mean a tiny amount).

We're also way off the OP. Does anyone know, with anything approaching certainty, of a club that has an interest in trying to get into the FD? GUST obviously want back in, we've know that for a while, but anyone else? Is it just the FAI going through the motions?

I know weve move off thread but Super Sundays on Sky ive seen plenty of incidents ive described and not being resident in Dundalk it is not just a Dundalk experience!

[Jofspring]

Up to this season you would get strange looks and questions off people if you sat in a pub in a limerick fc jersey. Do you really support them? Thought they were ****e? Does anyone actually go to games?

Now a lot more people seem to find it a bit more understanding why you'd go to a limerick match. Better facilities, better players, a higher standard. Slowly but surely more people are coming around to the fact that limerick fc represent their city. A bit of success like a cup or title challenge could really see it take off.

Typical for us though just as we start to take off and get more press the hurlers win the Munster title and are in the all Ireland semi-finals, totally dominating the local press and attention of the public.

[Kiki Balboa]

Has their been any attempt to revive the clubs that went to the wall ? (kilkenny, kildare, Monaghan etc )

Is this invitation just a stab in the dark that their just might be a club willing to step up ? surly the first division cannot survive the way it is.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Monaghan have a team in an Ulster league don't they?

[Dodge]

Has their been any attempt to revive the clubs that went to the wall ? (kilkenny, kildare, Monaghan etc )


An attempt by who? Kildare and Monaghan ran by small committees who found out they couldn't do the job properly. Kilkenny was a one man club to all intents and purpposes. Fine man, but that's never going to be a way to run a club.

Oh and if the barrier to any club joining is a 19k affiliation fee, then they shouldn't be looking at playing in a national league anyway.

[pineapple stu]

Damn UCD fans looking for evidence based information - will i get away without referencing? Its all on the attendance thread....
You've completely missed the point though. You've said the clubs with the best attendances have the best grounds, therefore good grounds are vital. But the clubs with the best attendances also have "Rovers" in their name, so similar logic would show it's vital to have "Rovers" in your club's name.

You've shown no correlation between having a decent ground and having high attendances. That's my point.

I don't doubt that ground improvements are good for the league in general, but you can't just show a coincidence and say that there's causation. Maybe it's because the clubs have the best attendances - and therefore more money, helped by European qualification, that they have better grounds?

[sullanefc]

Can Premier Division clubs enter B teams into the first division?

[Nesta99]

What i siad was that the clubs with the best grounds have the highest attendences with no mention of a good ground being vital - i acknowledged that there are variables and animolies to this but it is a factual point going on the information that is in the attendances thread is it not? Causition or co-incidence has nothing to do with the point i was making.

I was making the point that perception is the predominant issue with LoI and while there are many many theories on how perception can be improved; some of those theories put into action eg summer season, the only feasable 'quick fix' that i can see is to get the Sky treatment similar to where other sports have been reinvigorated, darts being the example i used.

Secondary to that infrastructure plays a role to perception, in particular when comparisons are constanly there in the forms of SPL, lower English league grounds and indeed some of the Irish league grounds! as an aside more than anything i noted the better gates in LoI are at the better stadia. Such infrastructure is not feasably improvable in most part in the foreasble future - hence my sky sports opinion in making it trendy is one of the few open options. The basis of a sellable product is there.

Yes i agree with you that if UCD had the best ground in the league that would not necessarily improve gates as in some cases a club is what is and there is limited scope to grow. It is quite difficult to prove that improved facilities has not caused improved gates at the top 4 examples given either. To suggest that it may only be co-incidence that improved attendance for Limerick happened and is not due to Thomand is not very scientific either. Sligo are constantly improving and expanding the seating capacity at the Showgrounds and have sold out a number of times, greater capacity = bigger attendence for sell outs. If Dundalk improve the away section more away fans would attend(all boycotting fans would be happy to return) - causation or co-incidence?

I havent missed you point nor have stated something that isnt backed up unles i was giving a personal opinion!

On topic I do think that some former league members should be approached to see if there is a possibility to return. Monaghan is a good example where they could do something similar to Wexford Youths bringing players throught the local setup. Newbridge, Tralee, Kilkenny, GUST, Fanad, Navan maybe, Castlebar, Thurles, Mullingar, Cavan Town, Carlow? could have involvement in some guise if incentivised with, for example, amatuer membership fee for those fielding amatuer teams? How to structure a league is another story but imo Junior clubs should have a more direct route to Senior football and it should be a finincial benefit not a cost burden therefore a restructuring of not only membership fees but also prize monies. all ifs and buts i know but if junior football thought there might be even just a few quid for them in a restructuring they may not be so quick to outvote senior clubs on proper nationwide footbaling issues.