FAI Invites First Division Expressions of Interest

[redron]

The Football Association of Ireland (FAI) invites expressions of interest from clubs/entities interested in participating in the Airtricity League First Division for the 2014 Season.

http://www.fai.ie/domestic-a-grassroots/airtricity-league/news/103418-fai-invites-first-division-expressions-of-interest.html

They want more teams in the 1st Division?

Are they crazy, we need One Division League, not this.

Would the lack of promotion/relegation have any impact on the status of the league? Would it put places in UEFA competitions in jeopardy?
FIFA has a section in its statutes about sporting integrity which mentions the principle of promotion and relegation. This may be why the FAI is so set against a one-division league.

[Sean South]

What i siad was that the clubs with the best grounds have the highest attendences with no mention of a good ground being vital - i acknowledged that there are variables and animolies to this but it is a factual point going on the information that is in the attendances thread is it not? Causition or co-incidence has nothing to do with the point i was making.

I was making the point that perception is the predominant issue with LoI and while there are many many theories on how perception can be improved; some of those theories put into action eg summer season, the only feasable 'quick fix' that i can see is to get the Sky treatment similar to where other sports have been reinvigorated, darts being the example i used.

Secondary to that infrastructure plays a role to perception, in particular when comparisons are constanly there in the forms of SPL, lower English league grounds and indeed some of the Irish league grounds! as an aside more than anything i noted the better gates in LoI are at the better stadia. Such infrastructure is not feasably improvable in most part in the foreasble future - hence my sky sports opinion in making it trendy is one of the few open options. The basis of a sellable product is there.

Yes i agree with you that if UCD had the best ground in the league that would not necessarily improve gates as in some cases a club is what is and there is limited scope to grow. It is quite difficult to prove that improved facilities has not caused improved gates at the top 4 examples given either. To suggest that it may only be co-incidence that improved attendance for Limerick happened and is not due to Thomand is not very scientific either. Sligo are constantly improving and expanding the seating capacity at the Showgrounds and have sold out a number of times, greater capacity = bigger attendence for sell outs. If Dundalk improve the away section more away fans would attend(all boycotting fans would be happy to return) - causation or co-incidence?

I havent missed you point nor have stated something that isnt backed up unles i was giving a personal opinion!

On topic I do think that some former league members should be approached to see if there is a possibility to return. Monaghan is a good example where they could do something similar to Wexford Youths bringing players throught the local setup. Newbridge, Tralee, Kilkenny, GUST, Fanad, Navan maybe, Castlebar, Thurles, Mullingar, Cavan Town, Carlow? could have involvement in some guise if incentivised with, for example, amatuer membership fee for those fielding amatuer teams? How to structure a league is another story but imo Junior clubs should have a more direct route to Senior football and it should be a finincial benefit not a cost burden therefore a restructuring of not only membership fees but also prize monies. all ifs and buts i know but if junior football thought there might be even just a few quid for them in a restructuring they may not be so quick to outvote senior clubs on proper nationwide footbaling issues.
I tend to glance over most posts on this site but Cavan Town got my attention. Seriously? I can't be arsed with reading your post in full but it's probably pure moon man stuff. Cavan Town!

[Charlie Darwin]

One thing you could be sure of with Cavan Town is they're never going to spend beyond their means.

[Nesta99]

Note the question mark after the sentence! Cootehill more to your likeing then?

[Redzer]

I tend to glance over most posts on this site but Cavan Town got my attention. Seriously? I can't be arsed with reading your post in full but it's probably pure moon man stuff. Cavan Town!
I can see it now, Cavan Town Ultras

[gufcfan]

c) they probably don't want their financials being looked over anyway.
They needn't be worried about that. The FAI have a great track record of wilfully ignoring dodgy finances.

[Charlie Darwin]

They needn't be worried about that. The FAI have a great track record of wilfully ignoring dodgy finances.
I meant more in terms of the Revenue. I doubt any LSL clubs document any of the payments they make to players and all concerned would like to keep it that way.

[Neish]

Oh and if the barrier to any club joining is a 19k affiliation fee, then they shouldn't be looking at playing in a national league anyway.

So a armature club just happens to have €19k lying about before they even consider other expenses like wages, food, travelling, accommodation, match day expenses?

Where exactly does this €19k go anyhow?

Regarding the invitation for new clubs this is just the FAI's lazy half assed attempt to say they tried to solve the problem. They do this and don't have to sit down with the club and actually discuss the problem..

[outspoken]

From going to college in Cavan I can safely say there will never be a LOI team in Cavan. They don'y even know what the LOI is and thats no joke.

[White Horse]

Outside of Dublin, there should be a close correlation between the various schoolboy leagues and league of Ireland clubs. Football at schoolboy has a very high participation rate and is well organised in many cases. In the north east, Drogheda are going quite a bit of work with Meath clubs, while Dundalk have worked to develop links with clubs in south Monaghan and east Cavan. The lack of money in the game and the failure of the FAI to understand the importance of a proper pyramid structure is hampering these efforts.

[ArdeeBhoy]

There is some real comedy gold in this thread....

[jinxy lilywhite]

I am really enjoying this thread and with possible solutions and other peoples opinions and ideas of how the league is faltering and reasons and justifications for it. the truth is though it is not one reason that has caused this and we cant fully blame the EPL or the FAI either. Clubs are just as guility of this also. The problem is about 50 years or bad decision making and bad planning in the league that really has the league really fooked.

for a solution there really needs to be a tackling of each individual issue and addressing it. we all know that the product is not good enough, the facilities are not good enough, the support is not good enough, the administration of the game is not good enough. We can all point this out and also we can also point it out on a macro level and even a micro level and for each individual club there could be varying levels of differences in the outcomes.

to be honest it probably will take just as long as it took to destroy the league as it will be to fix.

[Spudulika]

Jinxy I agree fully with you about the length and depth of the problem. I've always found that too many LOI clubs operate in some sort of day to day existence with delusions of squander. Only for Mick Wallace's backing Wexford would be gone as fans want trophies and bragging rights, so a thrifty club is doomed. The only way for the FAI to build a proper league is to look at medium to long term growth and stick with it, not just face safe with actions like this. What well run junior club would want transparency and hassle of the First Division?

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

So a armature club just happens to have €19k lying about before they even consider other expenses like wages, food, travelling, accommodation, match day expenses?

Where exactly does this €19k go anyhow?

Regarding the invitation for new clubs this is just the FAI's lazy half assed attempt to say they tried to solve the problem. They do this and don't have to sit down with the club and actually discuss the problem..

Someone has to pay for it....

1922

[peadar1987]

I'd be inclined to say start at the top. Have the FAI commission a detailed, specific, structured five, ten, and twenty year plan for the league, and Irish football in general from people who actually know what they're talking about (I suggested Leicester De Montfort University a while back as an ideal option). Don't spare any expense in getting together something that will work, and then don't compromise at all in its implementation. No fudge, if a club steps over the line, they get hit with instant, non-negotiable sanctions.

Suggestions would be:

-Infrastructural development fund set up within 2 years to provide loans to help LOI clubs fund grounds and youth structures.
-LOI living within its means within 5 years. Strict and comprehensive financial regulation with points deductions for breaching them. If a club gets docked 5 points for breaching the financial framework, they'll be unlikely to chance it in the hope of getting success. Fewer clubs going bust means more money for investment in fanbase development and ground improvement.
-A fully-integrated national pyramid under the control of the FAI within 10 years (if junior clubs would prefer to remain big fish in a small pond, good luck getting any funding or coaching at all out of the FAI).

A club, any club, has its own interests at heart. It wants to win trophies, and as a rule, has almost zero interest in the good of the league as a whole. That's not a criticism, it's just a fact of life. Leadership has to come from the top.

[nigel-harps1954]

That would make too much sense you see.

[bluemovie]

Expressions of interest? Having spent the last six seasons watching First Division football, I'd like to tell the FAI I have absolutely zero interest in it!

I had the displeasure of travelling to Drom again last Friday. Every time I go there, I cringe at the state of the First Division. Great junior league set-up, but a complete indictment of the League of Ireland with it's huge slope from one of the pitch to the other, slightly lesser slope from one side of the pitch to the other, zero seats, no cover unless you count going inside to the clubhouse, no food for away fans except for crisps/chocolate from a vending machine, teamsheet programme - pretty much none of the things 'required' for licensing.

[Mr A]

Was just writing a little bit on this last night and on typing the phrase "those in charge of strategic planning for the league" I realised I had no clear idea who was in charge of this. I assume Fran Gavin is the main man.

When you think about the issues the league has (and what is more fundamental than dropping numbers of participant clubs?) it's mad to think that not only is there no plan, there's no indication that one might be put in place or acknowledgement that one might be needed. Perhaps behind closed doors there are mighty deeds afoot to bring the league to a new found popularity and prosperity and I just don't know about them.

[Terry]

Was just writing a little bit on this last night and on typing the phrase "those in charge of strategic planning for the league" I realised I had no clear idea who was in charge of this. I assume Fran Gavin is the main man.


Someone can correct me if Im wrong but isn't it Eamonn Naughton (ousted GUFC director and current member of of the great Salthill Devon FC) that would have this roll?

[Ezeikial]

Originally Posted by Terry http://foot.ie/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?p=1701744#post1701744)
where GUFC will have 1st refusal on the players at both clubs





What does this mean?

What happens if Galway and another club want to sign a player on amateur terms with Mervue or Salthill?

Are you suggesting that Galway will have some type of preferential rights? How would that be enforced if the player did not want to sign?

Terry - Can you clarify?

[Terry]

It's all rumours as of yet but basically, the 2 u19 teams will be like feeder clubs from what Im told. The players that go through the u19 route rather than the junior league route once they are past the juvenile age groups will be looking at going up the grades in the LOI whilst remaining based in Galway to improve the development of soccer locally. Obviously no one will be held against their will, the structure will be there so there will at long last a proper stepping stone for players in the Galway FA with no sign of Intermediate football in the region for some time yet.

[dublinred]

Can Premier Division clubs enter B teams into the first division?

Can't see it being a problem if you pay the entry fee , we currently have a B team in the premier division they are based out of Tallaght and doing shockingly bad considering the players are getting paid a lot more than the A team.

[Bohs11]

Never was historically a big proponent of the one division league.

My views have altered radically this season. :D

[NeverFeltBetter]

If you think the First Division is a waste of time now, wait till the numbers are made up of "clubs" that can't get promoted.

[nigel-harps1954]

The more I look at a First Division of 8 teams, the more it makes me accept the 'B' team idea.

Right now, I'd take Shamrock Rovers 'B' or Sligo Rovers 'B' over Salthill Devon or Mervue.

[outspoken]

The more I look at a First Division of 8 teams, the more it makes me accept the 'B' team idea.

Right now, I'd take Shamrock Rovers 'B' or Sligo Rovers 'B' over Salthill Devon or Mervue.

If you think home attendances and interest is low now wait till you have flipping reserve teams coming to town.

[Charlie Darwin]

If you think home attendances and interest is low now wait till you have flipping reserve teams coming to town.
Would people really be more interested in watching Salthill than a PD reserve side?

[Jofspring]

Would people really be more interested in watching Salthill than a PD reserve side?

Probably more down to the perception people would get. It really makes the first division look like a reserve league then.

Personally I'd see no problem cause at least it might cut down the amount of times teams play each other.

[Macy]

I think it would ultimately kill the clubs like us, harps, athlone, Waterford (2 of whom won't be going up).

8 (or less) will ultimately kill them too, unless there's an increase in numbers up and down (2 down, 2 up and a playoff). If bohs or shels (or both) come down they'd be favourites for automatic promotion.

It can't go on like this, but I don't think reserve teams is the solution. One division or a radical redesign/ reformat.

[Martinho II]

one division worked for sixty years up to 1985-why can they try it again? it could be a turnin pt for all clubs...

[ped_ped]

FAI confirmed this a long time ago when the O Connor report came out, Talks are at advanced stage between Meruve, Salthill, GUST & Galway FA. It is proposed all the parties will have one member of the board of new club (don't have any further info),but I would expect more info on proposed new club will come out in next few weeks

I wish people would stop trying to fix the problems in the league with these Frankenstein's monster attempts at club building. What is the point in having a joined Mervue-Salthill-GUST club? Mervue and Salthill will be competing with each other at underage level and all other Galway junior clubs will be excluded. The FAI should just do what they clearly want to and find some stupid reason to cast Mervue and Salthill from the league and give GUST their undeserved preference, rather than try to meld two junior clubs' identities into some ready made mold for GUST. Individual club identities deserve more respect.

For the record, this also applies to expanding the LOI brand in new counties. Successful junior clubs are where interest needs to be built, not some Tipperary United farce.

[Lim till i die]

The FAI dont wanna give it to gust.

Most likely outcone in galway next year is a Limerick 37 ish thang.

And there'll only be one division. I'd nearly put money on it at this stage.

[NeverFeltBetter]

One of the things I always wondered was what any GUST/Mervue/Salthill entity would look like. Would it actually be a new club, or would it just be Galway United with their colours, name, stadium and history attached? I recall one poster on here last arguing vehemently that the new entity should absolutely be called "Galway United" and nothing else. I can imagine the people behind Salthill and Mervue would be fearful of their clubs ethos - as small as it may be - vanishing in a merger.

[gufc2000]

At this rate, the whole thing will go the same way as the Connacht Senior League idea- pushed down the pipeline again.

My biggest fear is that the genuine supporters of Galway soccer, and GUST, are being lead down the garden path again. I'd imagine it's going to be nigh on impossible to carry the can for a 3rd successive year without a team.

[Olander]

Most likely outcone in galway next year is a Limerick 37 ish thang.


Not being smart, I'm genuinely curious as to what that means? I thought Limerick simply changed their name to Limerick 37 for a few seasons then changed back to Limerick F.C. after a while or is there more to it? I thought they were the same company?

Also agree they don't want to give gust the responsibility, I think it's fairly clear. They want all "stakeholders" involved.

[Lim till i die]

Not being smart, I'm genuinely curious as to what that means? I thought Limerick simply changed their name to Limerick 37 for a few seasons then changed back to Limerick F.C. after a while or is there more to it? I thought they were the same company?

Also agree they don't want to give gust the responsibility, I think it's fairly clear. They want all "stakeholders" involved.

Limerick 37 had the same people who had been involved in senior football for years (some were coming back after a short break following some purges by danny drew)

But sitting on the board you also had people from the schoolboy league and the junior league.

And in the background you had the fai pulking strings and giving out the occasional sweets.

It didnt really work out! But in thepry the idea wasnt a bad one and i genuinely think its a similar type of thing the fai are pumping galway for.

They wont want it going on much longer in galway without a team its a lucrative family friendly kind of a loi place.

But gust are too inexperienced/erratic to be given the run of the place.

And if.anything big is to happen in galway naughton will want his piece of the pie. He's earned it by being the best boy all this time.






Also afaik the name change was because drew owned the name "limerick fc" at the time

[Bohs11]

I think it would ultimately kill the clubs like us, harps, athlone, Waterford (2 of whom won't be going up).

8 (or less) will ultimately kill them too, unless there's an increase in numbers up and down (2 down, 2 up and a playoff). If bohs or shels (or both) come down they'd be favourites for automatic promotion.

It can't go on like this, but I don't think reserve teams is the solution. One division or a radical redesign/ reformat.


If we get relegated, we'll more thank likely go under.

[luiz]

There are several good suggestions here, but I have yet to understand what people have in mind when they think of a single division, with 16-18 clubs and no relegation (unless it's a temporary measure). One of the reasons that make the First Division this dull and disgusting thing is precisely the lack of relegation, which means that teams like Salthill Devon will be forever hanging on in the last place with 5 points. Not to mention the obvious fact that in a championship like this the only 4 or 5 teams with stable finances will compete for the european spots and the other 11 will basically play 30 friendlies against each other, can you imagine what sort of team would troubled clubs (like Bohs, for example) come up with if they had no relegation to be afraid of? The cheapest possible, of course. We would have most of the teams playing with absolutely no ambition and investing exact zero on improving their squad, since they will be there next year anyways, and if it's already hard to put 1500 people in most matches, who would watch that c***? Unless the FAI has some even crazier idea, like NBA style playoffs.

My idea, is that we could have a single division, with all the current teams except Salthill Devon and Mervue United (maybe Mervue can be spared) and GUST in their place, for the next year. This would qualify the first 10/12/14/16/any number you prefer to the next year's championship, while something of the hundreds of nice ideas in this topic is done to encourage traditional and well structured junior squads to join the league. But then again, thinking of tables and number of clubs in a division is the easiest. The biggest problem is all the rest.

[Macy]

The reason the 1st is so dull and disgusting is the lack of promotional opportunities, not a lack of relegation. That and it's too bloody small. Maybe an expanded premier would have the same problem because of no relegation, but at least all clubs would be guaranteed a certain number of big games/ gates to help them survive. If the FAI can get their crap together and get other clubs to join, then we can look at a split again, as in 1985, but at the moment there isn't the number of clubs for 2 divisions and no indications of any looking to make the step up.

As for this "inviting applications" crap - the FAI should've been going around the country developing, helping and encouraging clubs to make the step up. They've done nothing. Their only focus has been on reducing the number of clubs with the Galway situation. At a time when the league needs clubs, even if it's not ideal having 2 or 3 from the same city. GUST have been ready to go the last few years, and the FAI have actively blocked a club that's willing and able to join the league. Beggars belief imo, and all so people in the FAI can point to a LoI related "achievement". What are the FAI doing with the likes of Mons and Kilkenny, to try and encourage them back into the league?

It's time for something radical. Open discussions with the IFA and UEFA about an AIL. We should switch to winter to facilitate this if it looks like a runner (there's no way a summer season would work imo if the issues of this summer are repeated in the 6 counties). It's no silver bullet, but would give everyone the chance of decent sized leagues without the monotony of playing teams 4 or 5 or more times a season, and would give a short term boost to clubs. If that's not a runner, a radical shake up here (2 conferences and play offs or something along those lines).

[Quayman]

FAI should be doing all they can to get junior clubs to make the push up, the league entry should be lower than what it is and grants should be made available to "new" clubs willing to step up so they can build up their infrastructures. The likes of Tralee and Carlow were asking to be put forward a few years ago, Monaghan could come back as they have a junior club still going in the Ulster Senior League I think it is. Do Castlebar want to come back? Even during the old reserves/u21 leagues there was two Mullingar teams, can they put a team forward? Would Home Farm, St. Francis etc be willing to come back. Theres very little teams out in south Dublin other than UCD and Rovers over in Tallaght. Balbriggan and Swords are big catchment areas with no clubs around.

[avvenalaf]

If we get relegated, we'll more thank likely go under.

And that's precisely why there will only be one division next year, if Bohs finish bottom (and they will )

[bennocelt]

If we get relegated, we'll more thank likely go under.

Would that 100,000 you might have got if you had beaten that pish poor Icelandic team last season had made any difference! Europe can be important (re what the fat guy on MNS always says)

[jinxy lilywhite]

I really cannot see a position where bohs would fold if they were relegated. technically bohs are the only traditional northside team left. I really cant see how they couldn't be rebuilt from bottom up.

before shels fans kick up, no matter what you say you are a southside club

[Macy]

I really cannot see a position where bohs would fold if they were relegated. technically bohs are the only traditional northside team left. I really cant see how they couldn't be rebuilt from bottom up
According to prico, its great for clubs to go down. Done us and athlone loads of good being stuck in the first.

[Charlie Darwin]

According to prico, its great for clubs to go down. Done us and athlone loads of good being stuck in the first.
Dunno about you but Athlone have got RODDY since they went down.

[Bohs11]

And that's precisely why there will only be one division next year, if Bohs finish bottom (and they will )

Havn't given up hope yet. A win tomorrow against Rovers and it could drastically change our season.


I really cannot see a position where bohs would fold if they were relegated. technically bohs are the only traditional northside team left. I really cant see how they couldn't be rebuilt from bottom up.


before shels fans kick up, no matter what you say you are a southside club
Our crowds have drastically reduced this season. I'd say were averaging about 1,100 a game. With significantly smaller away gate receipts, decreased sponsorship and increased travel costs there's a very real chance of Zurich deciding were not viable anymore and pulling the rug from under us.

Our only real hope of survival is sitting it out until property prices pick up somewhat and selling Dalymount for more than our liabilities.


Would that 100,000 you might have got if you had beaten that pish poor Icelandic team last season had made any difference! Europe can be important (re what the fat guy on MNS always says)

It definitely would have made a difference. However in the overall scheme of things it would have been just a fraction of what we owe.

[bennocelt]

It definitely would have made a difference. However in the overall scheme of things it would have been just a fraction of what we owe.

Was think more like building a team with that dosh.

Are your crowds still not bad considering you are near the bottom last two season?

[oriel]

I wouldnt imagine Bohs will go through any greater challenge than any other side who spent time in the FD if they went down. I understand the Zurich position, but crowds might actually pick up if they are leading the FD (if they did get relegated)

Lets face it, only two clubs have been spared the FD at this stage, Pats are the other one, so its really not the end of the world if it happens, a setback yes, but it can be turned around.

Going out of business altogether is another matter ofcourse.

[Nesta99]

According to prico, its great for clubs to go down. Done us and athlone loads of good being stuck in the first.

F*cking hate that old cherry being rolled out by a club when relegated - lets rebuild from scratch blah blah, 7 damn years of hellish rebuilding if thats the case for us and not on the cheap either! and feck all done rebuilding either if ye ask me. To add to that a constant reminder of those horrible days is that many of our younger fans see the Drogs as our main big rivals now, bless them, as our wee neighbours happened to be going through their only period of success while we flirted with re-election, were denied promotion twice in the dimly lit corridors of Merrion Square, were managed by somone who resembled an evil dictator, laid a carpet as a pitch, sold our training ground, nearly gave John Gill a few heart attacks along with many other fans, only to be promoted eventually by a goal scored by Limerick.....yeah its great to be relegated!!!

[L.T.F.C.]

Well I know CCS hasn't looked this good in years. Tasty as fcuk so it is!!