Ireland V Sweden(A) 22 March & Austria(H) - 26 March 2013 - World Cup 2014 Qualifiers

[tetsujin1979]

from the starting XI: Forde, Wilson, Clark, Coleman, Green, Whelan, Brady and McClean all got their first caps under Trapattoni, who allegedly only ever picks the same players

[geysir]

Tets, i'm not comforted by that stat, have you anything better?

[p2011]

who allegedly only ever picks the same players

Hardly remarkable, he's been in charge nearly 5 years and we have injuries and retirements too. In fact Wilson, Clark, Coleman and McClean should have been bedded in a year ago! Yet here we are in a crucial qualifier starting with untested combinations and persisting with the 4-4-2 that has seen us overrun against decent opposition every time in recent years – that's just plain negligent. Thanks a lot, Trap.

[SkStu]

Why is brady provisional?

I would have thought that would be McClean... (Sorry!)

[zero]

i had come to terms with green starting but now this potential keogh fiasco... tears.

[paul_oshea]

from the starting XI: Forde, Wilson, Clark, Coleman, Green, Whelan, Brady and McClean all got their first caps under Trapattoni, who allegedly only ever picks the same players

It smacks of desperation if you have to pull out old hat like this to defend trap.

[tetsujin1979]

Tets, i'm not comforted by that stat, have you anything better?
number of away qualifiers lost by Trapattoni: 0


It smacks of desperation if you have to pull out old hat like this to defend trap.
how is it old hat? where did I say I was defending him? Is claiming it was old hat your own act of desperation?

[paul_oshea]

Why did you append "who allegedly only ever picks the same players" then? And why did you feel the need to single out all the new players he is playing anyway? In the context of the discussion about Green and keogh etc, everyone was complaining and chastising Trap, it seems pretty strange that you would post something like that (which was something to beat him with years ago, but no one mentions now as everyone acknowledges that he does give you new players opportunities eventually) other than to defend trap

[SkStu]

how is it old hat? where did I say I was defending him? Is claiming it was old hat your own act of desperation?

You are blindly loyal to and defensive of Trap.

[Bungle]

starting XI announced: https://twitter.com/FAIreland/statuses/314760767113134081

To be fair to Trap, I'm reasonably happy with that starting line up, barring his ridiculous decision to have Green ahead of Macca. I cannot for the life of me fathom how we can't have a place for Hoolahan, but I've given up on Trap ever picking him from the start, so it doesn't have the same sense of annoyance that the selection of Green does.

Delighted that our full backs are the same. Really rate both Wilson and Coleman and think that they could be our full backs for years.

[SkStu]

Sweden -1 @ 6/4 - easy money.

[paul_oshea]

Geysir is reluctant to heap much praise on Wilson. He believes that he is liable to defensive laps, and positioning is not that of Stephen Ward. Ok I made the last 2 words up. Crosby what did Nigel-harps say?

I hope you are right though bungle. If clark proves he is something of a player as well, then we will be more than adequate in the backs for a while to come.

[tetsujin1979]

Why did you append "who allegedly only ever picks the same players" then? And why did you feel the need to single out all the new players he is playing anyway? In the context of the discussion about Green and keogh etc, everyone was complaining and chastising Trap, it seems pretty strange that you would post something like that (which was something to beat him with years ago, but no one mentions now as everyone acknowledges that he does give you new players opportunities eventually) other than to defend trapI hadn't actually seen the earlier discussion about Keogh and Green. It came about from a discussion on twitter, thought it was interesting so posted it here.


You are blindly loyal to and defensive of Trap.
A little, yeah. The contrarian in me is reacting to some of the comments I've seen online. My standard reaction to anything when I see something is to think the opposite, and if that's true then the original statement is false.

[Junior]

Could be junior or stutts, i wouldn't be half surprised.

The fan favourite Cox, and probably switch mcclean.

Boots - Check
Cultured Left Foot - Check
Schoolday memories of being a midfield masetro - Check
Gloves........ Would ye slate me if I wore gloves? I'd make sure they were the green, white and orange ones.


Anyway, I'll be there if needed.


So no real surprises with the team based on training sessions over last 24-48hrs. Central midfield partnership is disappointing to say the least. James should be in there no doubt. Likely scenario of O'Shea and Clark being eaten for breakfast by the big man Ibra is scary at the mere thought.

Just have to hope that the decent attacking qualities of our FB's, wide midfielders and the running of Long and instincts of Keane can get us a goal or two even (dare I dream) to secure us a point, the problem will be we wont have the ball much and without the ball you dont create chances/score goals......

[shakermaker1982]

Green is getting a lot of stick but Whelan's constant inclusion in the starting 11 seems to be ignored. I may be mad but I'd have Green over Whelan. Green will get stuck in despite his limitations with the ball & we will need that bite tomorrow. Whelan cannot even move when he sticks a green shirt on & the game will no doubt pass him by tomorrow like it normally does.

I've often expressed my disappointment with the use if 4-4-2 & no doubt we will be without the ball for long passages of play. A shame the Trap wouldn't put his faith in footballers by including McCarthy & Hoolahan but this man won't change now so we've just got to wait it out.

We sure do miss the Duffer....Brady is only finding his feet at this level whilst McClean has struggled this season for Sunderland. Duff would take the ball & draw out fouls to ease the pressure off which is invaluable when you only have the ball for 30% of the time. McClean on the other hand will just put the head down, get frustrated & lose the ball.

The CB pairing fills me with dread. Please get fit Dunne ASAP! Clark is rash & O'Shea is O'Shea. We'll need some performance tomorrow night (with a bit of luck) to get a draw.

We are obviously underdogs but sneaking a draw isn't beyond the realms of possibility. Remember when we somehow got a point over in Moscow?!

[DeLorean]

I usually hate when people make predictions like... "it'll either be 1-1 or Sweden will win 3-0". That's what I'm going for all the same. If it is the former I reckon we'll have taken the lead, looked fairly comfortable and then concede a silly (or fantastic) goal. That's right, I feel like keeping my options open.

For all the talk about Green and Whelan, I really couldn't understand what Robbie Brady has done to merit a place in the squad, let alone the team. Of course the news then filtered through that it's either him or Andy Keogh and now it's a source of comfort to be that Brady has got the nod, provisionally at least.

[DeLorean]

Green is getting a lot of stick but Whelan's constant inclusion in the starting 11 seems to be ignored. I may be mad but I'd have Green over Whelan. Green will get stuck in despite his limitations with the ball & we will need that bite tomorrow. Whelan cannot even move when he sticks a green shirt on & the game will no doubt pass him by tomorrow like it normally does.

You're not mad at all and a lot have agreed with that already. The only reason Whelan's lack of contribution is more or less ignored is because we know he will be in the side. Same with the Hoolahan thing, we know he won't be in the side. When complaining about Green instead of McCarthy it feels more like a battle we can win, even though we obviously can't.

[the bear]

There is no need to name a player provisionally. If you think he mightn't be ready, why would you name him to start and then highlight the fact that you are unsure on him? This seems crazy to me have i missed something here?

Someone already made a point that Hoolohan could be picked on the wing, a position he used to always play in.

This centre midfield business is infuriating. We could have Hoolahan, McCarthy & Gibson in there. These lads mightn't be the best footballers in the world but I would defo fancy them over Whelan & Green. What has Trap learnt from the past campaigns and how has he made any attempt to try and rectify previous problems?

We will possibly blunder a result on Friday but you have to feel it would be more by chance than design. Anyways come on Ireland!

[geysir]

Geysir is reluctant to heap much praise on Wilson. He believes that he is liable to defensive laps, and positioning is not that of Stephen Ward. Ok I made the last 2 words up.
Yes you made that up but at least you are consistent there:)

Maybe you have missed my posts where I have heaped praise upon praise on Wilson's football ability, where even in one post I have stated that he has, of(f) all our players, has the best ability to stroke the ball(s) across the park.

Have you heaped a higher praise upon him than me?

[the doc]

Look Lads and Lassies, the teams been picked, we just have to go with it and back the team
We can discuss the rights and wrongs after the game tomorrow night.
It's a game of football anything can happen, don't write us off just yet.

In Trap we trust (Just about!)

[Murfinator]

So we're unbeaten in away competitive games in the past 5 years and he's brought us to two playoffs with the worst player pool we've had since the eighties and he's apparently a disgrace. I weep for Irish "supporters" I truly do, cannot help but be frustrated from many of the comments about him here and elsewhere. If you think Ireland are underperforming under Trap I hope you're distanced from the sharp objects when under a predecessor you get to see the "international class" of the likes of Hoolahan, Pilkington, McCarthy and Clark. There'll be nobody to blame it on then.

I think we'll lose to Sweden and lose with Austria, we'll be as good as out at that stage and I won't blame it on Trap. That's simply where our player levels are at right now. We haven't produced a player as good as Fuchs or Alaba in about 15 years now. We've never had a player as good as Ibrahimovic in our History. Thinking we can compete against these kind of players at our lowest ebb is madness. Reality check time.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Why do you keep insisting we stop critiquing the team? We're all going to be urging the lads on tomorrow, that doesn't mean we have to cease discussion.

In Trap you trust.

[Murfinator]

There is no need to name a player provisionally. If you think he mightn't be ready, why would you name him to start and then highlight the fact that you are unsure on him? This seems crazy to me have i missed something here?

Someone already made a point that Hoolohan could be picked on the wing, a position he used to always play in.

This centre midfield business is infuriating. We could have Hoolahan, McCarthy & Gibson in there.

Gibson has been poor anytime he's played in the past, he's not a team player and is unavailable through his own choosing. Nobody should want a player of that low ability with that kind of attitude in their team, it's strange how people will happily accept Stephen Ireland as a traitor but consider Gibson some sort of mistreated martyr.

[the bear]

So we're unbeaten in away competitive games in the past 5 years and he's brought us to two playoffs with the worst player pool we've had since the eighties and he's apparently a disgrace. I weep for Irish "supporters" I truly do, cannot help but be frustrated from many of the comments about him here and elsewhere. If you think Ireland are underperforming under Trap I hope you're distanced from the sharp objects when under a predecessor you get to see the "international class" of the likes of Hoolahan, Pilkington, McCarthy and Clark. There'll be nobody to blame it on then.

I think we'll lose to Sweden and lose with Austria, we'll be as good as out at that stage and I won't blame it on Trap. That's simply where our player levels are at right now. We haven't produced a player as good as Fuchs or Alaba in about 15 years now. We've never had a player as good as Ibrahimovic in our History. Thinking we can compete against these kind of players at our lowest ebb is madness. Reality check time.

Your message here seems to be we are brutal because of the players at our disposal so why should Trap try and do anything about it. Should we just withdraw from all competitions for the next 10 years or so?

[the bear]

Gibson has been poor anytime he's played in the past, he's not a team player and is unavailable through his own choosing. Nobody should want a player of that low ability with that kind of attitude in their team, it's strange how people will happily accept Stephen Ireland as a traitor but consider Gibson some sort of mistreated martyr.

I consider him a better midfielder than Whelan & Green, thats all.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Gibson's had his chance. I rate him and I've had lots of time for him before, but his current attitude is indefensible. Paul Green might be an inferior player at club level, but he showed up.

[Bungle]

So we're unbeaten in away competitive games in the past 5 years and he's brought us to two playoffs with the worst player pool we've had since the eighties and he's apparently a disgrace. I weep for Irish "supporters" I truly do, cannot help but be frustrated from many of the comments about him here and elsewhere. If you think Ireland are underperforming under Trap I hope you're distanced from the sharp objects when under a predecessor you get to see the "international class" of the likes of Hoolahan, Pilkington, McCarthy and Clark. There'll be nobody to blame it on then.

I think we'll lose to Sweden and lose with Austria, we'll be as good as out at that stage and I won't blame it on Trap. That's simply where our player levels are at right now. We haven't produced a player as good as Fuchs or Alaba in about 15 years now. We've never had a player as good as Ibrahimovic in our History. Thinking we can compete against these kind of players at our lowest ebb is madness. Reality check time.

I would view Brady, McGrath and Keane (Roy) as better players from their eras as Ibra and that's three players that immediately spring to mind. Lawro and Whelan were vital cogs in one of the greatest club sides of all time, while Ibra got bombed out of Barca. Other players like Giles and Irwin were truly great players. That's a few players off the top of my head. Just because a player is a defender/midfielder, doesn't mean that they are any less important to a winning team than an attacker or a flair player.

Having said that, we've never had an attacking player like Ibra, who is truly world class.

[Irwin3]

Gibson has been poor anytime he's played in the past, he's not a team player and is unavailable through his own choosing. Nobody should want a player of that low ability with that kind of attitude in their team, it's strange how people will happily accept Stephen Ireland as a traitor but consider Gibson some sort of mistreated martyr.

Usual rubbish from the usual suspects. One can only aspire to match the performance levels of Whelan and Green. Not a team player? Where do you get this crap from? The Everton fans seem happy enough with him. Their thread on their next captain is dominated by talk about Gibson. http://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/54463-Captain

and 3rd choice here in a diiferent thread behind Everton's two stalwarts, Jagielka and Baines.
http://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/54391-Next-Captain

Doesn't sound like they have problems with his teamwork and attitude, yet for some reason you feel the need to spout your nonsense again.

[Charlie Darwin]

Their thread on their next captain is dominated by talk about Gibson. http://www.grandoldteam.com/forum/threads/54463-Captain
It seems to be dominated by votes for Jagielka.

[tricky_colour]

Well, doc, I'm backing the team too, but I don't see why we 'must' trust in Trap.

Lot of friendlies coming up this summer it seems, just a pity our manager doesn't even try to learn anything from friendlies.



Well, judging by the squad, it probably had two of McCarthy, Hoolahan and Hendrick in midfield! Not hard to see how they might be superior to Trap's chosen two. I would rather see Hoolahan ahead of Green in a two-man midfield if we're stuck to 4-4-2. Yes, before anyone states the obvious, I know it's not Hoolahan's usual position but I'd still rather have a proper footballer in there. Trap is sabotaging our chances if we start with Whelan and Green in midfield. Do we not learn anything from the Euros? From basically having 6 or 8 (if you include the wingers getting back to cover the fullbacks) defensive players on the park and 2 (or 4) isolated attacking players, disjointed with no link between the two blocks? From failing to retain possession for any more than a few seconds at a time?

Well I suppose one thing Paul Green has going for him was that he was not at the Euros!!
I suppose if things are not going well he could make some midfield changes ie if we go a goal down early.

[tricky_colour]

While I don't doubt they would be a much better midfield, I'd be a bit wary of Indo hyperbole on the subject. A "flurry of one-touch passing" probably translates closer to "they could pass the ball a bit".

A flurry suggests 3 or more passes.

[Irwin3]

It seems to be dominated by votes for Jagielka.

Try again?

[geysir]

Try again?
Gibbo likes a drink(and a fag?).

[Irwin3]

Gibbo likes a drink(and a fag?).

Winner!

[Charlie Darwin]

Try again?
Ah I clicked the wrong one. Good to see he's showing commitment at his club, perhaps one day he'll show the same commitment to his country.

[SkStu]

Well I suppose one thing Paul Green has going for him was that he was not at the Euros!!


He famously WAS at the euros and came on as sub ahead of the significantly miffed Gibson!

Oh, Nobby Green anyone?
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/paul-green-is-our-nobby-stiles-says-trap-ahead-of-sweden-clash-29146608.html

[SkStu]

He's such a weird manager.

He said: "McCarthy is in the squad. He plays well, but we are playing away and I have seen so many games of Sweden.

"There are players who give time to other players. James is not this typical player.

"He is young enough and maybe in one year or two years he will be better than Whelan."


Hull's Robbie Brady was named on the wing but Trapattoni revealed he had a slight doubt over him in a psychological sense and challenged the 21-year-old to prove he was ready.

Trapattoni said: "There is no injury but I want to be sure.

"I spoke with him. I said, 'Are you sure, are you okay?' He said, 'Yes'.

"I wish to push him. Brady is creative. He can put the opponents in difficulty.

"He showed (this) against Poland, going inside. He is clever and I told him, 'You must repeat this game'.

"It is my provocation. He will now see in the newspaper tomorrow he is a doubt. It is only psychological."

[Charlie Darwin]

"He is young enough and maybe in one year or two years he will be better than Whelan."
Is this the most backhanded compliment in football history?

[Crosby87]

Is he saying this in Italian and it is being translated slightly wrong? Is that one of the ongoing issues with Trap? I mean you are telling me he said "provocation?" I dunno. Even if Sh*t is slightly wrong, it causes problems. Why would he elude to it being in the newspaper. Thus removing the point of it.
It almost seems like the translator struggles with English and puts in whatever they think...

[Charlie Darwin]

No, the translator would be clearer than that, it's probably his own word. He means challenge obviously.

[elroy]

While Green was an improvement on Whelan in the second half in the Poland match, his overall performances for Ireland are not encouragiing. If anything there is merit for a Green and McCarthy midfield.

With that exception and the ridiculous comments on Brady, the team is more or less as you would expect. I dont think McGeady will be a huge loss. Too often his end product for us is well short of the mark.

My faith in Trap is waning but I do still believe. However, I fear and suspect we will have that sinking feeling watching the match tomorrow night - that feeling that comes when you see Ireland fail to maintain possession, hoof the ball clear from defence and generally defend on the edge. Admittedly that has us results from time to time. However, Id prefer to see away performances akin to Armenia or Montenegro or Slovakia rather than Bulgaria (after we scored) or Russia.

I wonder if Keane was not available, would Hoolahan get the nod instead. Unlikely under Trap but would seem to be a natural replacement. Can anyone see Hoolahan seeing any time tomorrow? Perhaps if we take the lead and are trying to hold on?

Good to see Long start, Sweden are far from rock solid defensively and hopefully he will cause them problems. My fear is that the service to Long will just be Long balls, hardly what suits him best.

[SkStu]

I was looking for the A-House, here come the good times video and came across this. If this doesn't get the pulse racing and the butterflies going in your stomachs then you're not Irish! COYBIG!

7BiJ3fmXZA4

I love Mick McCarthy. I love Robbie Keane. Anyone who doesn't treasure both of these guys has a heart of stone!

[Charlie Darwin]

While Green was an improvement on Whelan in the second half in the Poland match, his overall performances for Ireland are not encouragiing. If anything there is merit for a Green and McCarthy midfield.
If we're going to persist with the two-man midfield, I think this is actually the best combination.


I dont think McGeady will be a huge loss. Too often his end product for us is well short of the mark.
I see this a lot but I don't understand it. McGeady's end product is the best end product we have. He sets up more goals than anybody else in our team.

[Lansdowneo4]

I really can't see why Paul Green has been the target of all this hatred. I'm a Leeds fan and have been lucky enough to see him a few times this season and sometimes on the right wing (You thought Trap was bad)

But he's actually been one of Leeds United's better players this season, his main asset being in dispossessing opposition players and setting up counter attacks which is probably why he's been picked to play tomorrow.

I'm not saying McCarthy is a poorer player or anything like that, in fact he's probably better at most aspects of the game and could probably hold onto the ball better and pick out a pass but we're not going to be given the space for that against a good side (tactics etc)

[elroy]

I was looking for the A-House, here come the good times video and came across this. If this doesn't get the pulse racing and the butterflies going in your stomachs then you're not Irish! COYBIG!

7BiJ3fmXZA4

I love Mick McCarthy. I love Robbie Keane. Anyone who doesn't treasure both of these guys has a heart of stone!

Great video and what is it about British commentary when watching those clips that somehow seems to make it even better!!!

How good was Duff back then, such a top class player. In fairness, the team had some superb individuals (Given, Duff, Keane, Harte, Stan) but some very ordinary to good players as well (Holland, Kinsella, Breen, Kilbane), but they truly were a team.

[Charlie Darwin]

Great video and what is it about British commentary when watching those clips that somehow seems to make it even better!!!

How good was Duff back then, such a top class player. In fairness, the team had some superb individuals (Given, Duff, Keane, Harte, Stan) but some very ordinary to good players as well (Holland, Kinsella, Breen, Kilbane), but they truly were a team.
If you liked Duff at World Cup 2002, you'll absolutely love this video of Duff at World Cup 2002:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGnw0rh58Us

[tricky_colour]

He famously WAS at the euros and came on as sub ahead of the significantly miffed Gibson!

Oh, Nobby Green anyone?
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/paul-green-is-our-nobby-stiles-says-trap-ahead-of-sweden-clash-29146608.html


Was he? My memory is not very good so I was not sure so I 'checked' before sticking my neck out and stating he was not there.

Just checked again and it seems he was on standby so I guess it was Keith Fahey? who dropped out.

Can't say I remember much of the midfield only thing I can remember was a misplaced pass by Glenn Whelan.

Seems he only played the last ten minutes v Spain, we only conceded one goal in that period :p

I guess I had probably lost interest by then!

[Noelys Guitar]

I was going to analyze the team selection but it won't make any difference will it. It is what it is. COME ON IRELAND! This is one serious game with serious implications both good and bad for Irish football people.

[peadar1987]

While we're in 2002 mode:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RojpJ843Mko

[Charlie Darwin]

I was thinking about that ad earlier. Whoever Areland are, I hope they enjoyed their big win.