Ireland V Sweden(A) 22 March & Austria(H) - 26 March 2013 - World Cup 2014 Qualifiers

[Charlie Darwin]

Now that he's off the radio, we can look forward to more reams of self-indulgent nonsense like this from Ken Early in the Times.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/lucky-general-trapattoni-hasn-t-met-his-waterloo-just-yet-1.1337844

[Noelys Guitar]

For once I agree with Dunphy's assessment that Whelan does not have the legs to properly break up the opposition play and that Whelan loses concentration during games at crucial times. Walters is fit going by todays reports so why is Sammon starting? He is not a conventional target man. Nor a prolific goalscorer and his ball control is not great. There is the possibility that Trapatonni does not believe we have the players who can get good diagonal crosses into the box so revert to route one and possibly get a few knock downs for Long to run onto. But that means giving up control of the ball and another at best home draw. Backwards step. Play Hoolihan in the position Keane played on Friday. Hoolihan can get that crucial goal as well as being an excellent outlet for other players. Plus our free kicks and corners would improve. Play Walters in the same position he played on Friday as well.

[Bungle]

For once I agree with Dunphy's assessment that Whelan does not have the legs to properly break up the opposition play and that Whelan loses concentration during games at crucial times. Walters is fit going by todays reports so why is Sammon starting? He is not a conventional target man. Nor a prolific goalscorer and his ball control is not great. There is the possibility that Trapatonni does not believe we have the players who can get good diagonal crosses into the box so revert to route one and possibly get a few knock downs for Long to run onto. But that means giving up control of the ball and another at best home draw. Backwards step. Play Hoolihan in the position Keane played on Friday. Hoolihan can get that crucial goal as well as being an excellent outlet for other players. Plus our free kicks and corners would improve. Play Walters in the same position he played on Friday as well.

Agree with that. I would love Wes to start. He could be a game changer for us.

[ifk101]

Relatively happy to get the draw against Sweden. I think they were expecting our usual predictability and that caught them unaware. But I feel we could have been more positive in the second half and I would have brought on Brady for Walters with 15/ 20 minutes to go. Their left full is quite suspect, and although Walters did that which was asked of him, I feel Brady's trickery would have exposed Sweden's weakness in that position.

What good work we did in Stockholm counts for nothing though if we don't follow it up with a win against the Austrians.

[tricky_colour]

What's wrong with Trap picking Whelan ahead of Green exactly?

Whelan is playing at a higher standard than Green, and is a better player overall. If he's fit, he should be in the team ahead of Green, no question.

As for Sammon.... the mind boggles.


I think the issue is we need a Green to do the harrying in midfield we don't seem to be able to get the ball back
with out him, at least not until it is in the back of our net or goes out for a goal kick or is cleared by the
defence.

[tricky_colour]

Who is the most famous Austrian of all time?

Franz Klammer.

[Noelys Guitar]

Team to be announced at 2.30pm or thereabouts.

[Murfinator]

Austria are better ball players than us, we take them on at a game of football and they'll murder us. That's the reality. People might like Hoolahan but I'm sorry, a midfield from Norwich, Stoke and Wigan against Stuttgart, Werder Bremen and Bayern Munich is like backing a snake against a mongoose. Trap is right to not try and compete and go for a route one plan.

Their defence is susceptible in the air and keeper inexperienced and that's why Sammon is starting, I said from the squad announcement that it was this game that he was selected for. Had Keane been injured ahead of Sweden I think Cox would have started, it's tactical.

[tricky_colour]

Madden

Hoolahan

McClean mccarthy green hitler

WIlson o shea clarke coleman

Forde

[pineapple stu]

Their defence is susceptible in the air and keeper inexperienced and that's why Sammon is starting
Wouldn't it be an idea to start someone who's strong in the air then?

[Noelys Guitar]

Sammon starting but Wilson possibly out with an injury. Wilson was excellent against Sweden and that would be a huge loss.

[harry crumb]

Wouldn't it be an idea to start someone who's strong in the air then?

Agreed.

That's not his game.

Hard runner and has good movement in the box.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Wouldn't it be an idea to start someone who's strong in the air then?

Walters, if that's what you're hinting at?

[IsMiseSean]

Now that he's off the radio, we can look forward to more reams of self-indulgent nonsense like this from Ken Early in the Times.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/lucky-general-trapattoni-hasn-t-met-his-waterloo-just-yet-1.1337844

Is that what Early looks like?
I always assumed he was an old bloke with grey hair and a moustache...

[Noelys Guitar]

Trapatonni said a few weeks back that Sammon would be a better foil for Hoolahan than Holt. That Sammon was a better player than Holt. What he based that on I don't know. Holt is limited but Sammon is dropping down the leagues and gives up possession very easily. Doyle is the closest we have to a target man type but even he is not really a conventional target man and neither is Walters. I just don't get this selection. And if the Austrian midfield is so great (their no better than Swedens IMO) then why are we persisting with the likely home game tactics of lumping the long ball forward and allowing the Austrian players gain easy possession.

[tetsujin1979]

Who is the most famous Austrian of all time?
Arnie, probably.
Maybe that other bloke. Failed art student, did time in prison, wrote a book

[IsMiseSean]

Surely Josef Fritzl must be in the top 5?

[Murfinator]

their no better than Swedens IMO

Why do you say that?

And because possession is less effective if we're in positions to deal with it, long balling is lets our midfield sit deep and prepare for Austria to come at us.

[geysir]

Even at our best over the past decades, we were just getting away draws against good or similar teams. Sweden have a better team than us and have had a better team than us since football was invented, sometimes way better, other times modestly better, sometimes better on a mediocre level. They have performed better at the Finals than us, they can play football and compete with the best. That tradition doesn't come out of thin air.
Where does the idea come that Sweden are no great shakes, when we were running around like monkeys to stop them playing and when (Zlatan apart) they don't even have what you'd call very talented players. Just basic midfield talent who are comfortable with basic football technique. The pressure is on Sweden now in this group.
An away draw is a very good result if we follow it up with good home results. That's a big if and that's the main issue as we face Austria. At least it seems to have sunk in that we need to win.
Before we started this campaign, I thought we'd be certs for a 4th place finish.

[BonnieShels]

Has this team actuallly been announced or are we going on scraps from the Sun and Indo?

I feel ill at the thought of it considering what happened on Friday.

[shakermaker1982]

We were all positive after Friday & then the Trap ruins it by playing Sammon from the start. WTF?! Beyond baffling. Picking Whelan from the start is bad enough (about as mobile as a 2 legged dog) but not using Walters/Doyle/Cox or Hoolahan instead of Keane just doesn't make any sense.

[jbyrne]

team confirmed:
forde
coleman
oshea
clark
wilson
walters
whelan
mccarthy
mcclean
sammon
long

[Sullivinho]

team confirmed:
forde
coleman
oshea
clark
wilson
walters
whelan
mccarthy
mcclean
sammon
long

Sigh. Overwhelmingly underwhelming.

Glad Wilson made it though.

[tricky_colour]

Ireland v Austria team. Forde, Coleman, O'Shea (C), Clark, Wilson, Walters, McCarthy, Whelan, McClean, Sammon, Long.

[tricky_colour]

Trap never fails to underwhelm.

Write down the last team you would pick and you pretty much have Trap's starting 11 :D

[tommy_c12000]

Was thinking of making the journey to Dublin for it. Will leave it off now. Sammon starting is the lowest point of Irish soccer in my living memory

[ArdeeBhoy]

Who is the most famous Austrian of all time?
Archduke Franz Ferdinand.

Look at what his demise started...

[ArdeeBhoy]

Was thinking of making the journey to Dublin for it. Will leave it off now. Sammon starting is the lowest point of Irish soccer in my living memory

Clearly you never saw Paul McShane or Stephen Ward. Or various other donkeys over the years...

[noddy102]

Was thinking of making the journey to Dublin for it. Will leave it off now. Sammon starting is the lowest point of Irish soccer in my living memory

What a ridiculous statement.

Have you forgotten Joe Lapira all of a sudden?

[tommy_c12000]

What a ridiculous statement.

Have you forgotten Joe Lapira all of a sudden?

Was that a crucial competitive World Cup Qualifier?? I don't think so. We were short numbers anyways on that US Trip! This surpasses all in my living memory

[KK77]

We were all positive after Friday & then the Trap ruins it by playing Sammon from the start. WTF?! Beyond baffling. Picking Whelan from the start is bad enough (about as mobile as a 2 legged dog) but not using Walters/Doyle/Cox or Hoolahan instead of Keane just doesn't make any sense.

To think if we win tomorrow night we'd be 3 points behind the Germans with the same number of games played. Baffling.

[paul_oshea]

I still think it is of benefit to us, as I said at the start of the campaign, to keep Germany close. I don't want to see the Austrians fade, and I don't want to see Germany sail the group before the last game. But they play Kazakhstan again tomorrow so they will be 16 points, with an extra game played and we will be 10 - if we win. They are home and dry.

[KK77]

I still think it is of benefit to us, as I said at the start of the campaign, to keep Germany close. I don't want to see the Austrians fade, and I don't want to see Germany sail the group before the last game. But they play Kazakhstan again tomorrow so they will be 16 points, with an extra game played and we will be 10 - if we win. They are home and dry.

Yes they are home and hosed alright no doubts about it.

[geysir]

Germany will keep on kicking until they are mathematically home and dried, then anything can happen in their remaining games, especially the last game in Stockholm. Possibly they might want some revenge for getting humiliated by Sweden, or possibly they just won't care that much, like in previous qual campaigns.
We just have to beat Austria and Sweden in Dublin.

[paul_oshea]

No though, we don't just have to. If Sweden were to beat them at home, even if we beat Sweden, Sweden would finish a point ahead of us, unless we get a point in Germany. And I cant see that happening at the moment.

Plus if Sweden got 6 against the Austrians, then we would have to do the same, and I cant see us beating Austria away from home.

[geysir]

No though, we don't just have to. If Sweden were to beat them at home, even if we beat Sweden, Sweden would finish a point ahead of us, unless we get a point in Germany. And I cant see that happening at the moment.

Plus if Sweden got 6 against the Austrians, then we would have to do the same, and I cant see us beating Austria away from home.
I mean we just have to beat Sweden and Austria at home.
Not, we just have to beat Sweden and Austria and that will do.
Can't you tell the difference? :)
Other results should take care of themselves, they usually do but we won't be in the ballpark without the home wins.

[paul_oshea]

I was suggesting that in order to ensure our passage to the World cup was secured we need a Germany still involved right to the end. How else was I meant to interpret your statement other than it being the successful criteria that I had suggested in the previous post i.e. qualification? :)


In our last group where we weren't up against serial qualifiers for 2nd place, you could count on one or two shock results. With Sweden in there this time,
I don't think we can count on that happening again. I don't think they will get 6 but I wouldn't be surprised to see them get 6. This time unfortunately we
need to worry about other results, as much as people would believe its in our own hands, its not really, cos even if we get the results you suggested a loss against
Germany and its out of our hands.

[geysir]

So, by your analysis you now reckon Sweden are a good team, not likely to falter at any stage?
Personally at this stage, it's enough to be stressed about winning our upcoming game. Good things happen to those who win their home games. I'm not afraid to look for the best possible scenario once we do our bit. That's how it usually works.

[ArdeeBhoy]

On the basis of just Friday, Sweden will be doing well to even draw with the Germans at home or take 6 points from Austria. Unless the latter are rubbish.

[paul_oshea]

Just looking at the team and I realised only 1 Dub in there. Great to see.

And no its not anti-Dub bias, just think its great to see that we aren't so concentrated in one area (Dublin). It can only help promote the game if we have lads from all over.

[geysir]

On the basis of just Friday, Sweden will be doing well to even draw with the Germans at home or take 6 points from Austria. Unless the latter are rubbish.
That's a roundabout way of being optimistic about our chances to finish ahead of Sweden?

[tetsujin1979]

Just looking at the squad and I realised only 1 Dub in there. Great to see.

And no its not anti-Dub bias, just think its great to see that we aren't so concentrated in one area (Dublin). It can only help promote the game if we have lads from all over.
Sammon and Whelan are both from Dublin, but I take your point.
There has to be some sort of advertising campaign to be made from the number of ex-LOI players in the squad too?

[paul_oshea]

Ya I don't really consider him a player, just a ball boy :D

5 ex LOI players too. Ya exactly. That in itself should be a form of promotion, use it as much and as far as they can.

[mark12345]

On the basis of just Friday, Sweden will be doing well to even draw with the Germans at home or take 6 points from Austria. Unless the latter are rubbish.

Steady on with all the optimistic predictions!

Let's come back down to earth for a second and remind ourselves why there are so many among us who can't stand Trap (and I'm saying this just days after that very positive result in Sweden).

For starters Whelan recovers from injury and he replaces Green in the team. Now I'm no lover of Green but Whelan is not as good as Green. Green has a lot more to offer and even then he's limited. But why not play Hoolahan? And bringing in Sammon for Keane? Another very poor choice. Doyle is a proven quantity at international level, albeit going through a poor run of form at the present.

I honestly hope Whelan falls flat and his face and Trap trips over him. I just cannot stand to read his team selections anymore. We deserve to lose to Austria for shooting ourselves in the foot before the first whistle.

[Real ale Madrid]

Ya I don't really consider him a player, just a ball boy :D

5 ex LOI players too. Ya exactly. That in itself should be a form of promotion, use it as much and as far as WE can.

Fixed that.

[BonnieShels]

Steady on with all the optimistic predictions!

Let's come back down to earth for a second and remind ourselves why there are so many among us who can't stand Trap (and I'm saying this just days after that very positive result in Sweden).

For starters Whelan recovers from injury and he replaces Green in the team. Now I'm no lover of Green but Whelan is not as good as Green. Green has a lot more to offer and even then he's limited. But why not play Hoolahan? And bringing in Sammon for Keane? Another very poor choice. Doyle is a proven quantity at international level, albeit going through a poor run of form at the present.

I honestly hope Whelan falls flat and his face and Trap trips over him. I just cannot stand to read his team selections anymore. We deserve to lose to Austria for shooting ourselves in the foot before the first whistle.

Whilst I still hope we win. I understand teh gut-wrenching feeling you obviously felt like I on reading the team selection It boggles the mind.

What is even more worrisome is that because he has started with Sammon and Whelan we will not see Green, Doyle, Hoolahan or whoever is likely to come on until 60min or so have gone. Who knows where we will be at that stage of the game.

[ArdeeBhoy]

That's a roundabout way of being optimistic about our chances to finish ahead of Sweden?

No, because besides the Faroes at home, wouldn't guarantee we'll beat anyone...

Sweden/Ireland/Austria are three very mediocre sides and will finish in that order.
And short of playing Iceland/Albania, will struggle to beat most other sides in the play-offs...Sweden and us at least, do have some experience of this.

[Murfinator]

Wouldn't it be an idea to start someone who's strong in the air then?

That's why he's been brought in according to captain sheasy.
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/12020/8474095/John-O-Shea-backs-Conor-Sammon-to-give-Ireland-an-aerial-threat

[Murfinator]

Was thinking of making the journey to Dublin for it. Will leave it off now. Sammon starting is the lowest point of Irish soccer in my living memory

The best fans in the world.

[Murfinator]

No, because besides the Faroes at home, wouldn't guarantee we'll beat anyone...

Sweden/Ireland/Austria are three very mediocre sides and will finish in that order.
And short of playing Iceland/Albania, will struggle to beat most other sides in the play-offs...Sweden and us at least, do have some experience of this.

People who think Austria are a "mediocre" side are in for a nasty surprise. I personally think they'll finish 2nd, they've a lot of young highly regarded bundesliga/turkish league players you might not know a lot about yet but you will soon enough.
Sweden are a mediocre side with a couple of exceptional players who or may not do enough individually to get them by.
Ireland are a mediocre side with no exceptional players.