RTE Panel

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Will you quit with your Trap apologism? The man dug his own grave with a gradually increasing litany of mindbogglingly asinine tactical decisions, stagnancy, stubbornness, antagonism towards the media and lack of respect towards his own players. He didn't need anybody to dig his grave for him.

Take things on their merits. Staunton and Trapattoni had to go, things weren't working out with McCarthy and Kerr - maybe - deserved more time.

[Charlie Darwin]

What?

[NeverFeltBetter]

Funny, I didn't see the doc in this thread.

[bennocelt]

Have to say impressed with Glen Hoddle on ITV, very good viewing, while Kilbane with BBC was dour

[tetsujin1979]

Sadlier VS Cunningham on the x-rated tackle in the French - Nigeria game was brilliant TV. RTE at its finest.

[Olé Olé]

Brad Friedel was a fantastic addition to the panel this evening. He makes some very interesting points which others aren't capable of making and is clearly a deep thinker. Makes his points in a simple and under-stated manner. He does sound a tad monotonous after a while but still enjoyed him overall.

[DannyInvincible]

He seemed very perceptive and insightful any time I saw him on the BBC. Was impressed by him. I thought the others (Hansen and gang) appeared out of their depth exchanging points next to him.

[Charlie Darwin]

He seemed very perceptive and insightful any time I saw him on the BBC. Was impressed by him. I thought the others (Hansen and gang) appeared out of their depth exchanging points next to him.
Amazing what a bit of research and spending time following the modern game can do. Guys like Friedel, Cunningham, Kerr can talk rings around most of the established pundits.

[tetsujin1979]

I lost all interest in listening to Kerr talk about the Irish team a long time ago, but he's been excellent commentating on games as neutral observer

[Charlie Darwin]

Brian really hasn't gotten over his treatment from the FAI, which is a real shame because he has so much to give and it's clear from his commentary just what an excellent student of the game he is. Unfortunately I can't see him working with the FAI unless a lot of the current members move out of the game. I'd love to see him become involved in LOI football again, but obviously having managed international teams he'd be looking for a job that can meet his ability.

[OwlsFan]

Will you quit with your Trap apologism? The man dug his own grave with a gradually increasing litany of mindbogglingly asinine tactical decisions, stagnancy, stubbornness, antagonism towards the media and lack of respect towards his own players. He didn't need anybody to dig his grave for him.

Take things on their merits. Staunton and Trapattoni had to go, things weren't working out with McCarthy and Kerr - maybe - deserved more time.

Hand (1980–85) Charlton (1986–95) McCarthy (1996–2002), Kerr (2003–05), Staunton (2006–07),Trapattoni (2008–13) and King (2013**)

Everyone one of those has got it in the neck from Messrs O'H, Giles and Dunphy. Some deserved it more than others but the fact is (change the broken record some say) until Brady appeared defending Trap, there was no dissenting voice on the Panel. THAT is the issue I have always had with the RTE Panel. Whenever RTE had a debate on any other issue, politics, social matters etc, there were always people who represented both sides. The football Panel never followed that. The only serious divergence of opinion came in the Saipan affair but they kissed and made up shortly afterwards.

[DannyInvincible]

Sadlier VS Cunningham on the x-rated tackle in the French - Nigeria game was brilliant TV. RTE at its finest.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20lger_rec476_sport#from=embediframe

Poor Ronnie was way out of his depth.

[jbyrne]

Hand (1980–85) Charlton (1986–95) McCarthy (1996–2002), Kerr (2003–05), Staunton (2006–07),Trapattoni (2008–13) and King (2013**)

Everyone one of those has got it in the neck from Messrs O'H, Giles and Dunphy. Some deserved it more than others but the fact is (change the broken record some say) until Brady appeared defending Trap, there was no dissenting voice on the Panel. THAT is the issue I have always had with the RTE Panel. Whenever RTE had a debate on any other issue, politics, social matters etc, there were always people who represented both sides. The football Panel never followed that. The only serious divergence of opinion came in the Saipan affair but they kissed and made up shortly afterwards.

but sure dunphy now claims he got it wrong about mick mccarthy. not like dunphy to change his mind!

[BonnieShels]

Sadlier VS Cunningham on the x-rated tackle in the French - Nigeria game was brilliant TV. RTE at its finest.



http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20lger_rec476_sport#from=embediframe

Poor Ronnie was way out of his depth.


Ronnie is always outta his depth. As I said, when Sadlier talks properly and isn't overly negative he is a great panellist. Cuningham as well.

Whelan needs to be put out to pasture. He's a moron.

[Charlie Darwin]

I think RTE deserve a bit of credit for the younger panellists they've brought in. I know Sadlier has been around a long time, but Cunningham has been a real find and Irwin was always good when he was on, plus obviously Didi. Darragh Maloney has really grown into the role of presenter too and has resisted the temptation to become a Billo clone.

[BonnieShels]

Cunningham has been floating about a while.

I love him on LOI stuff because it just shows how into football EVERYWHERE he is.

[Charlie Darwin]

Oh I didn't mean he was a greenhorn, I just meant it was good succession planning by RTE to bring through somebody who wouldn't have been an obvious candidate for punditry work but has been brilliant. I think Stuey Byrne has improved an awful lot in the past year too on the LOI side.

Bang on about Cunningham on LOI stuff though. It's obviously not his #1 love, but when he's on the LOI shows he makes it his business to do his research and know what he's talking about, which is in marked contrast to some of his peers.

[BonnieShels]

Oh I didn't mean he was a greenhorn, I just meant it was good succession planning by RTE to bring through somebody who wouldn't have been an obvious candidate for punditry work but has been brilliant. I think Stuey Byrne has improved an awful lot in the past year too on the LOI side.

Bang on about Cunningham on LOI stuff though. It's obviously not his #1 love, but when he's on the LOI shows he makes it his business to do his research and know what he's talking about, which is in marked contrast to some of his peers.

So it's agreed. One candy and one caramel.

[Charlie Darwin]

You've been in America too long. You're even talking like them now.

[BonnieShels]

You've been in America too long. You're even talking like them now.

Ahem...

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2012/222/1/6/canada_is_not_america__by_shadow_wolf_209-d5ajcwg.png

[Charlie Darwin]

Sorry, America Junior :)

[OwlsFan]

I think RTE deserve a bit of credit for the younger panellists they've brought in.

I suppose when your main trio are 75, 73 and 68 respectively, they eventually had to wheel in some "younger panelists" or else they would have ended up with just three urns sitting on the chairs.

[Charlie Darwin]

Well my point was that they recruited well, not that they recruited just anyone.

[geysir]

I suppose when your main trio are 75, 73 and 68 respectively, they eventually had to wheel in some "younger panelists" or else they would have ended up with just three urns sitting on the chairs.
Brady was a teenager in 1974, he's still a young 'un, in RTE years.

[Sheridan]

O'Herlihy wouldn't let go of the suggestion that referees were "under instruction" tonight. You'd swear the panel and commentators were under instruction themselves, to talk down a tournament that's threatening the prestige of their precious Gah and rugby. Mindlessly negative coverage tonight, for a game that provided fantastic entertainment.

[Olé Olé]

O'Herlihy wouldn't let go of the suggestion that referees were "under instruction" tonight. You'd swear the panel and commentators were under instruction themselves, to talk down a tournament that's threatening the prestige of their precious Gah and rugby. Mindlessly negative coverage tonight, for a game that provided fantastic entertainment.

Yeah, I mean, there was the negativity and cynical physicality exercised by the Brazilians. But, the panel in the France/Germany game referred to Germany's cynicism as "experience." I found the Colombia/Brazil game a far more engaging and entertaining affair. It was stop-start and erratic but it also produced three goals and movement to each corner of the park. The panel for the Colombia/Brazil game took a slightly more idealist assumption of how Brazilian football should be played, and they ran with it like a dog with a bone in the aftermath. I think Billo gets a great kick out of throwing those bones and watching Dunphy gnawing away violently whilst Giles and Brady stick the paw in every so often.

I guess I'm over-analyzing the RTE panel. They're still entertaining and even if you don't agree, it's thought-evoking. It's like that old line about classical music someone said ironically on some film or something before; the music you don't hear is even better.

[tetsujin1979]

Yeah, I mean, there was the negativity and cynical physicality exercised by the Brazilians. But, the panel in the France/Germany game referred to Germany's cynicism as "experience." I found the Colombia/Brazil game a far more engaging and entertaining affair. It was stop-start and erratic but it also produced three goals and movement to each corner of the park. The panel for the Colombia/Brazil game took a slightly more idealist assumption of how Brazilian football should be played, and they ran with it like a dog with a bone in the aftermath. I think Billo gets a great kick out of throwing those bones and watching Dunphy gnawing away violently whilst Giles and Brady stick the paw in every so often.

I guess I'm over-analyzing the RTE panel. They're still entertaining and even if you don't agree, it's thought-evoking. It's like that old line about classical music someone said ironically on some film or something before; the music you don't hear is even better.
Was that in the Simpson's? Lisa goes to see a violin player, and tells a woman in the audience "you have to listen to the notes she's not playing"

[pineapple stu]

Pfft. I can do that at home.

(replied Homer)

[Olé Olé]

Hahaha! That was it exactly. I'm not even a big Simpsons fan but that quote stuck in my head. It makes a lot of sense for certain things.

[OwlsFan]

"The great nations have fallen. Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Holland, England and Italy". "Belgium will beat Argentina. I am telling you. " Van Gal has made a mistake." "Costa Rica are great at penalties".

All within 24 hours. Hilarious.

[Olé Olé]

It was as though the panel thought LVG made that call for controversy's sake. They all stated that Krul couldn't possibly have his eye in the game, hadn't caught a ball etc. But, in fairness, a penalty is simply diving the right way and stretching yourself until your hand or another part of your body can keep the ball out.

Van Gaal's call worked a treat but the panel all, or almost all, held their hands up and admitted he was right and they called it wrong.

[IsMiseSean]

"The great nations have fallen. Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Holland, England and Italy". "Belgium will beat Argentina. I am telling you. " Van Gal has made a mistake." "Costa Rica are great at penalties".

All within 24 hours. Hilarious.

My personal favourite was his prediction that Chile will beat Brazil & go on to win the tournament.

[BonnieShels]

Sure Krul was on the sidelines at one point practising which side to go for with a coach. Around the 110min mark.

[tetsujin1979]

My personal favourite was his prediction that Chile will beat Brazil & go on to win the tournament.
to be fair, he did predict England wouldn't get out of their group.

[jbyrne]

It was as though the panel thought LVG made that call for controversy's sake. They all stated that Krul couldn't possibly have his eye in the game, hadn't caught a ball etc.

i think you are overstating things. the panel questioned the idea behind the substitution, as id say most people did, but they didn't completely dismiss the idea as you seem to allege. the fact that Krul had only previously saved 2 out of about 20+ top level pens that he has faced backed up any misgivings that they had.

[OwlsFan]

to be fair, he did predict England wouldn't get out of their group.

A broken clock is correct once a day (or is that twice).

Interesting that Michael O'Neill predicted the 4 semi-finalists:

G12_jw7o9bk

[IsMiseSean]

to be fair, he did predict England wouldn't get out of their group.

Lots predicted England wouldn't get out of their group, but most would have had Italy & Uruguay to go through.
If he had predicted Costa Rica to qualify I would have bowed to his superior knowledge of world football.

[Olé Olé]

i think you are overstating things. the panel questioned the idea behind the substitution, as id say most people did, but they didn't completely dismiss the idea as you seem to allege. the fact that Krul had only previously saved 2 out of about 20+ top level pens that he has faced backed up any misgivings that they had.

That was my perception (to call it an allegation.. would be to 'overstate' it). I thought they all greeted it with shock (as we all did) and they questioned it. They thought Krul couldn't be in the game. I didn't see the relevance of that point at the time. They all gave a sort of half-way concession that, oh maybe it might work sure.

As regards the 2 from 20 argument, Brady communicated (after the penalties) what I said upon seeing the substitution- LVG has seen Krul in training and could see he's 5 centimetres taller than Cillessen. 2/20 isn't exactly relevant. It's all about giving yourself the best possible chance of getting the best possible outcome. Van Gaal believed Krul offered that. He was vindicated. Furthermore, there's the fact that none of those 20 penalties took place in the pressure cooker of a World Cup quarter-final. As someone stated, the pressure lies with the kicker; not the keeper. It's a bonus if he saves it because the striker's expected to score it. It's the weight of the pressure that pushes the odds in the goalkeepers favour.

[DeLorean]

RTÉ’s WC Coverage: At Best, Disappointing. At Worst, Shambolic (http://www.punditarena.com/football/chayes/rtes-wc-coverage-best-disappointing-worst-shambolic/)

Conor Hayes lambastes the RTÉ panel for their apparent lack of preparation for this year’s World Cup.

Eamon Dunphy stared down the lens of the camera and apologised. It was standard fare for when a bad word is uttered on television before the watershed, no one is actually offended but the apology is necessary lest people be upset by the lack of one. The camera angle and the gradual close-up were a bit dramatic, you couldn’t help but be reminded of Richard Nixon looking into the abyss and telling the world he would resign the presidency, effective at noon tomorrow.

Few people cared about Dunphy letting slip a four letter word but many would have accepted an apology for much of the analysis offered on his channel during the World Cup. Nobody should say sorry for having an opinion, but Dunphy and his experienced colleagues have insulted the viewer with the complete lack of preparation and research that has gone into their punditry this time around.

We’ve been told that Helder Postiga plays in Latvia, news I’m sure, that will please football fans in Riga. That Argentina will eventually struggle due to their average centre-half ‘Lorenzo’. At one point Karim Benzema and Samir Nasri were accused of leading the French mutiny in South Africa. This must have been done over the phone as neither were picked by Raymond Domenech in 2010. I could go on, such a litany of errors which either no one cares or has enough knowledge to correct have transferred much of RTÉ’s coverage from outdated but still entertaining to outdated and embarrassing.

Watching Dunphy scramble around for a coherent point is probably sadder than most people realise. In ‘Only A Game?’ and ‘A Strange Kind of Glory’ the Drumcondra native has written two of the most critically acclaimed football books ever written. I read ‘Only A Game?’ decades after it was published but its relevancy and the searing criticism of many aspects of the game still felt fresh.

Dunphy was one to challenge the consensus not on a mission to rile people up but because sometimes it is the right thing to do. Now though, he plays a role as an agent provocateur for his own amusement. He is television’s version of the twitter troll and at times can be just as offensive.

The malaise that has set in around RTÉ’s coverage can not be solely put down to the former Millwall man. Bill O’Herlihy has spent much of the tournament looking uninterested. The once masterful anchor used to only interject when absolutely necessary to move the conversation along, in this World Cup he has been constantly offering us his opinion. It’s as if before he retires Bill wants us all to be aware that after all these years of pretending he doesn’t, he actually knows a hell of a lot about the game. It’s not working.

Liam Brady too has often come into the studio unprepared, confusing Georgios Samaras and Pete Sampras his personal highlight. John Giles has given the same analysis he’s given for twenty years and will continue to give for two more decades if he stays on the air.

The decision by Ryle Nugent to only send two commentary teams to Brazil was sensible. Travelling around the country during a World Cup is expensive and the panelists’ hefty salaries have to be paid. What’s less clear is why they have had their other commentary teams try and hoodwink us into believing they are in South America. Jim Beglin discussing Curitiba as if he’d been walking around the place in the run-up to the game was the nadir of this charade. It has left the viewer with another reason to feel like their intelligence is being insulted.

All sports punditry has an obsessional and curious relationship with narratives. For instance, if Argentina win it all this is Lionel Messi’s World Cup. He might produce three stinkers in the final knockout games while his teammates perform heroically and collect the cup but the narrative is already in place that Lionel Messi took an average squad to Argentina’s third triumph.

On RTÉ when the elder statesmen are in the chairs, there are always, no matter what the game or the competition, two concurrent narratives. One is the ‘honesty of effort’ narrative presented by Giles. This one is pretty simple, the team that does ‘the right stuff’ will always win, no matter the tactics and strategy is employed by the manager. This narrative can’t change because what exactly ‘the right stuff’ is will fit whichever team comes away with the victory.

The other one comes from Dunphy and we can call this one ‘the football apocalypse’ narrative. Again this is easy to get our heads around, football is in a steep and inexorable decline and events on the pitch illustrate this. If Brazil go out of the World Cup without winning it, it’s the worst Brazil team the panel have ever seen and shows football is dying. If Brazil win it all on July 13th, it’s the worst Brazil team the panel has ever seen and their winning of the World Cup also proves that football is on the way out. The narrative remains unchallenged.

The old boys club telling us things aren’t what they used to be grows tiresome very quickly. While other stations and media outlets also subscribe to simplistic narratives there is always a chance they can be scrutinised, often from within. They also change and evolve over time and usually there is always hope for a team or a player’s redemption. There is no such wiggle room on RTÉ. Kenny Cunningham during this World Cup tried to go against the prevailing wind on Roy Hodgson’s England, Dunphy then proceeded to bully and humiliate the former defender for having the audacity to disagree with him. It made for the type of uncomfortable viewing that RTÉ must of thought they had left behind forever when Pat Kenny gave up the Late Late.

The state broadcaster can always show us the viewing figures and prove that they are impressive as always. It’s true despite my complaints, out of misplaced loyalty and convenience, I still choose RTÉ’s coverage over cross channel rivals. But if being slightly more appealing than the golf club banter with Alan Partridge and David Brentisms on BBC and ITV is the goal then it shows just how much the channel’s standards have slipped.

In the grand scheme of things sport is not that important and the talking around sport even less so. But the other side of that coin is, if football coverage leaves you feeling this short-changed, this annoyed and this insulted then it must be truly atrocious. It feels like a long time ago now, but RTÉ used to do brilliant football coverage.

It feels like a long time ago, because it was a long time ago.

[bennocelt]

But that Brazilian team are pretty poor and Messi has dragged Argentina into the last 4?:confused:

[Olé Olé]

Anyone else notice how the hosts and panels on RTE seem to love referring to Germany as 'The Germans'? Maybe they refer to every country's side that way, but I keep noticing it about Germany.

[DannyInvincible]

Anyone else notice how the hosts and panels on RTE seem to love referring to Germany as 'The Germans'? Maybe they refer to every country's side that way, but I keep noticing it about Germany.

Ha, I find pundits tend to do that when, instead of specifically discussing the actual team and players they're being paid to analyse, they revert to discussing national stereotypes in order to fill the gaps in their (scant) research and knowledge. Do the RTÉ old guard do any research?

[OwlsFan]

Mr. D at his best today again. He went for the Netherlands. Fair enough. Panel discussion mostly about the poor defences of both teams. Should have immediately bet online for 0-0. Both defences superb. Penalty shoot-out. Back to studio. All three predict Dutch win because they had done it before. Mr D predicts the Dutch will win it "comfortably". They had predicted the exact same thing for Costa Rica because they had won their last shoot out and....we all know what happened there. Huge pressure on players to try and do it twice in a row.

All three now needless to say go for Germany (who now are suddenly a good team having been called average before) but this puts me in a quandary. I was hoping Germany would win it from the start but based on the Panel's predictions to date, it might be worth a flutter on the Argentinians and wouldn't it be great to see the best player of his generation lift the World Cup. Should be a good Final. Europe v South America but latter at a disadvantage playing a day later and extra time but as Jimmy Greaves used to say football is a funny old game.

[BonnieShels]

My favourite thing on the whole thing was Ken Early's article in the IT this morning about how this German result was coming. He's jumped on board too.

Sneaky fiver on Argentina for me.

[bennocelt]

TBF no team in this World Cup have appeared brilliant, all teams have had their moments.

[OwlsFan]

John Giles to be awarded the freedom of the city of Dublin. Very good footballer in the 1960s/70s but other than being a failed Irish manager, almost bankrupting the Hoops and assassinating every Irish manager on TV who came after him while hiding behind Dunphy's more controversial outbursts, what has he done for Dublin ? OK may be The John Giles Foundation but if character assassination is the criteria, keep an eye out for THEONEWHOKNOCKS getting this award soon ;)

Greatest Irish footballer of all time? I had the pleasure of seeing him play and he was a tremendous passer (hence his obsession with passing) but he did lack pace but I would have him in the top 6 (in no particular order) with McGrath, Brady, Houghton and Keane (Robbie) and Keane (Roy) of the Irish players I have seen play.

[DeLorean]

It's all showbiz, baby (http://www.joe.ie/news/current-affairs/pic-driving-down-capel-street-this-joe-reader-saw-eamon-dunphy-and-asked-for-a-selfie/)

http://media.joe.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Dunphy2.jpg

[Bungle]

John Giles to be awarded the freedom of the city of Dublin. Very good footballer in the 1960s/70s but other than being a failed Irish manager, almost bankrupting the Hoops and assassinating every Irish manager on TV who came after him while hiding behind Dunphy's more controversial outbursts, what has he done for Dublin ? OK may be The John Giles Foundation but if character assassination is the criteria, keep an eye out for THEONEWHOKNOCKS getting this award soon ;)

Greatest Irish footballer of all time? I had the pleasure of seeing him play and he was a tremendous passer (hence his obsession with passing) but he did lack pace but I would have him in the top 6 (in no particular order) with McGrath, Brady, Houghton and Keane (Robbie) and Keane (Roy) of the Irish players I have seen play.

Houghton was a terrific player and one of the best Irish players of his generation and in a great Liverpool side of the 80s as well. Personally, I would place Whelan, Irwin, Duff and Lawrenson above him, but I would definitely have him in my top 10. Those three were all world class, which Robbie Keane was just short of in my opinion, but if we are basing it on a contribution to Irish football, then Robbie has to be in the mix.

My top 10:
(1) Brady
(2) McGrath
(3) Giles
(4) Roy Keane
(5) Whelan
(6) Lawrenson
(7) Irwin
(8) Duff
(9) Houghton
(10) Robbie Keane
(11) Shay Given

[DeLorean]

Seems harsh on Robbie Keane to come in 10th but your logic is pretty sound I think, plus it makes him our best ever striker so can't complain too much. I'd probably have him ahead of Duff though overall.

Good to see Glenn Whelan getting the recognition he deserves too.

[Bungle]

Kevin Sheedy would have to be in the mix in terms of world class talent - definitely close to the top ten anyway!!
Tough on the greats from further back like Carey,Eglington etc...I'd love to hear who the older fans would have in their top ten