RTE Panel

[Stuttgart88]

Yeah, they're a very slick outfit and they scored 4 with essentially a backup forward line. I was a bit frustrated by them actually, I think they can play better.

[irishultra]

Giles and Dunphy lack any sort of context. You can't just call Germany ordinary, ordinary to who? Calling them ordinary completely devalues the competition as they're the second best team in the thing. Dunphy said they have a lot of ordinary players, who are these 'ordinary' players? Its like they use a different barometer when judging Ireland, players like Duff, Dunne and Keane are somehow 'great' but Khedira playing for the biggest club in the world is 'ordinary' Ozil is 'ordinary' :confused:

Its like CR7, they would gloat someone like Rooney for some reason I don't know, maybe because he displays the traditional characteristics of footballers they would've grown up with/played with but knock Ronaldo who is far and away superior to Rooney. Giles is horrendous for this.

[dong]

Giles and Dunphy lack any sort of context. You can't just call Germany ordinary, ordinary to who? Calling them ordinary completely devalues the competition as they're the second best team in the thing. Dunphy said they have a lot of ordinary players, who are these 'ordinary' players? Its like they use a different barometer when judging Ireland, players like Duff, Dunne and Keane are somehow 'great' but Khedira playing for the biggest club in the world is 'ordinary' Ozil is 'ordinary' :confused:

Its like CR7, they would gloat someone like Rooney for some reason I don't know, maybe because he displays the traditional characteristics of footballers they would've grown up with/played with but knock Ronaldo who is far and away superior to Rooney. Giles is horrendous for this.

Agree with you there alright. A lot of that stuff goes on.

[irishultra]

Yeah man. I'll always like them though deep down. Watching when the 4 lads were on Miriam O'Callaghan's show hahaha. Mon the lads.

Can someone tell me how Gilesy speaks with an Irish accent, even though he's lived in UK since he was 15?

[CraftyToePoke]

Can someone tell me how Gilesy speaks with an Irish accent, even though he's lived in UK since he was 15?

I think its a personal thing, or rather how much you elect to become your environment. I have an aunt for example, who if you listen closely you can hear the remains of her Irish accent but only just, her brother, who has spent a comparable period of time in Britain, but you would swear he never left the parish. Both would be Giles era.

My family say I still have my accent and it hasn't softened at all, yet friends here say I sound more Irish after I get back from holiday. I would hate to lose my accent though. I think you can chose not to.

Any of the other UK based lads on this one?

[Junior]

My mum and dad have been in the UK 40+ years now (since their late teens) and both still have strong accents. Though, the English Inlaws have stated when my dad has been with his family for a day or two it seems to get even stronger. So Giles accent is not a surprise.

On the other side of the coin, a good school friend of mine from Manchester went back to Roscommon when he was about 12. I hadnt spoken to him for 25 years or so until a few months ago and I was expecting a big tattie munching culchie accent - but no, a broad Manc still - Took me by surprise!

[OwlsFan]

I have a brother who went to Germany when he was 20 many years ago. Now speaks English with a strong German accent :) I have another brother who has lived in England for 30+ years. Not a trace of an accent.

O'Herlihy to Panel: "Do you think Gerrard's cramp might be down to tiredness?"

Reasonable possibilty Bill, reasonable possibility.

[PatJR]

I fell around the place laughing last night as psuedo intellectual Eamon Dunphy tried to explain the cultural differences that have dogged Spanish teams in the past. With brilliantly sharp and insightful thinking he mused that the Spanish players decided not to sing the national anthem to show unity between Catalan and non-Catalan players. The official Spanish national anthem has no words..........

[kennedmc]

I fell around the place laughing last night as psuedo intellectual Eamon Dunphy tried to explain the cultural differences that have dogged Spanish teams in the past. With brilliantly sharp and insightful thinking he mused that the Spanish players decided not to sing the national anthem to show unity between Catalan and non-Catalan players. The official Spanish national anthem has no words..........

Ha funny - I heard that before about their anthem but wasn't sure. He was also talking about how Iniesta and Fabregas played in the same Barca youth team as 16 year old's - the fact there is a full three years in the age difference doesn't seem to matter to Eamo !!

[EAFC_rdfl]

anyone else see Giles's analysis pre-match of the two keepers? They were playing a number of clips of both making spectacular saves and it was as clear as day giles was just reading a script 'here comes a save from buffon against X, and here he is against Y'. It certainly wasnt himself who had picked out the saves. Surely there's some one better than Houghton for co-commentary on the final too?

[tetsujin1979]

anyone else see Giles's analysis pre-match of the two keepers? They were playing a number of clips of both making spectacular saves and it was as clear as day giles was just reading a script 'here comes a save from buffon against X, and here he is against Y'. It certainly wasnt himself who had picked out the saves. Surely there's some one better than Houghton for co-commentary on the final too?
are you saying it's a bad thing if he does some research (or more likely works with a researcher) to prepare a series of clips before a game?

[EAFC_rdfl]

Im saying, he was handed a script and told heres whats coming up in this clip that we have prepared for you, and that its made out to be his own work when clearly its not. I would say its obviously NOT a bad thing if he does some research before a match, but from what I could see he didnt do that.

[jbyrne]

I fell around the place laughing last night as psuedo intellectual Eamon Dunphy tried to explain the cultural differences that have dogged Spanish teams in the past. With brilliantly sharp and insightful thinking he mused that the Spanish players decided not to sing the national anthem to show unity between Catalan and non-Catalan players. The official Spanish national anthem has no words..........

maybe eamo looked into it more deeply than we give him credit for..... under Franco there were words put to it but there have been none since 1978. Words have since been avoided to avoid causing offence to the differant regions that like to see themselves as separate to spain such as the Basques and Catalans.

[OwlsFan]

maybe eamo looked into it more deeply than we give him credit for..... under Franco there were words put to it but there have been none since 1978. Words have since been avoided to avoid causing offence to the differant regions that like to see themselves as separate to spain such as the Basques and Catalans.

Now now, no letting "Eamo" off the hook. He said they don't sing the words because for the unity of the team. There are no words to sing as George Hamilton stated on at least 5 occasions so he mustn't listen to Danger Here.

Laughing Bill to Giles: "Castilas had a great game, John".
Giles: "He didn't have much to do Bill.
Bill: "It's time for an ad break...."

[Stuttgart88]

Did Giles really say that about Casillas? He made saves when they counted and dealt with sdangerous inswinging corners well enough, maybe getting lucky with the bounce on one occasion.

[geysir]

Now now, no letting "Eamo" off the hook. He said they don't sing the words because for the unity of the team. There are no words to sing as George Hamilton stated on at least 5 occasions so he mustn't listen to Danger Here.
That's what I recall Dunphy saying.

The enigma of the wordless Spanish anthem works both ways, a call for unity or the cause of a lack of vigour.
When Spain were flopping at Finals, the Spanish FA did a lengthy investigation in 2006 to find out why, in the end they concluded that the fact that there were no words to the anthem was a significant factor in the lack of spirit.

[Wolfie]

Its a guarded secret that our own anthem has caused resentment and infighting amongst the players over the years.

There's been mention of sexism and violence.

I mean, any anthem that finishes off with:

".......Sho-ving Connie around the field!!!!!!" is going to be divisive.

[OwlsFan]

Interesting after the game. My pal Bill looked dejected that we had won as the camera went to him immediately after the game. But what really surprised me was that Giles spoke up for Trapp having slated him in just about every previous Panel discussion. Sadlier is now trying to take the Dunphy role and the argument between him and Brady was interesting, although Brady's argument was weak that the players should tell the manager how to play. However, I was pleased as there was balance at last in the debate, despite Tony O'Donoghue trying to tear strips off Trapp in the post match interview. He did something similar after the French game and certainly has an anti-Trap agenda/position/viewpoint.

We have been missing that over the years (Saipan aside), the Panelists and Bill disagreeing with each other. Well done RTE.

[Murfinator]

Interesting after the game. My pal Bill looked dejected that we had won as the camera went to him immediately after the game. But what really surprised me was that Giles spoke up for Trapp having slated him in just about every previous Panel discussion. Sadlier is now trying to take the Dunphy role and the argument between him and Brady was interesting, although Brady's argument was weak that the players should tell the manager how to play. However, I was pleased as there was balance at last in the debate, despite Tony O'Donoghue trying to tear strips off Trapp in the post match interview. He did something similar after the French game and certainly has an anti-Trap agenda/position/viewpoint.

We have been missing that over the years (Saipan aside), the Panelists and Bill disagreeing with each other. Well done RTE.

I thought it was a really strange viewing experience all round, the commentators were so dull and drab in the 2nd half. They'd literally given up long before the 80th minute which was really odd since small teams conceding late on is pretty commonplace.
Tony O'Donoghue's aggression to Trap was pathetic and unnecessary, he's there to ask question not push his own agenda.
Bill or Richie seemed genuinely ****ed off that their prepared "end of an era" tone was quashed from relevancy at the last moment of the game leaving their position much weaker. I generally like Sadlier but his call for a sacking was the utmost stupidity, I'd wondered if the editors told him to take that extreme line in the absence of Dunphy but he was taking the same stance in his column the weekend. Giles, I believe continues to lean being anti-Trap but such was the extremism from other quarters it made him appear defensive of the man. Brady was correct about a point that everyone seems intent on ignoring, the Kazakhs were quite good and are well capable of taking points off teams at home.

Too much sideshow in general, bit uncomfortable seeing your national broadcaster so vehemently opposed to the manager when the public aren't even decided on the issue. It made sense with Stan, it doesn't here. Very little talk in general about the group, the points gain, future opposition etc: they just made the whole show to be about Trap's position. Tabloid stuff.

[elroy]

I felt that George and Ronnie were overly harsh on the team during the Euros. Yes it was tough to watch but least we were there. There was a level to how low the dejection should have got. This dejection has carried over onto last Friday and of course it was only worsened with Fridays performance. I think George was genuinely flabbergasted with the late goals. There is little doubt both lads are desperate for Ireland to do well though.

On the panel. I like Brady but there is no doubt he is blinded by his allegiance to Trap. He was tempering optimism at the start of the Euros (rightly so) when everyone was getting carried away. Also rightly he pointed out the other night that we have just had a successful qualifying campaign under Trap (and very nearly two in a row). On the face of it, there is a lot to be content with.

They discussed the lack of optimism in the general Irish public in this team at length. And that is a key point. Despite qualifying, despite achieving good results in general, the manager and the team do not attract a large level of public support. That is a problem and unlikely to shift unless Trap changes style.

Sadlier adds a different dimension. Perhaps he is trying to be controversial to carve out a career for himself. But his arguments at least are more reasoned and supported than Dunphy's are. I also agree his calling for Trap to get the sack was ill judged and rightly pulled up on by Giles.

I think the right answer is somewhere in between. This team and management have done well but there is justifiable reason for change, to a degree in personell but more so in tactical approach.

[EAFC_rdfl]

has dunphy jacked it in?

[Murfinator]

This team and management have done well but there is justifiable reason for change, to a degree in personell but more so in tactical approach.

This is exactly the position Liam Brady has been saying, why do you flag him as "blinded by his allegiance"?

[Real ale Madrid]

Well done RTE.

*Falls off chair :)

[jbyrne]

Sadlier adds a different dimension. Perhaps he is trying to be controversial to carve out a career for himself. But his arguments at least are more reasoned and supported than Dunphy's are. I also agree his calling for Trap to get the sack was ill judged and rightly pulled up on by Giles.


sadlier called for Trap to be sacked even if we qualified for the euros and even if we did well! says it all really

[Mr A]

I thought Sadlier came across as a whinger and made a bit of a balls of himself to be honest. So I guess he filled in for Dunphy pretty well. He went too far and the other guys who had been attacking the management ended up defending them to some extent. But then the whole thing seems to be increasingly about the show rather than any actual analysis.

Didn't like the aggression in the interview with Trap from O'Donoghue which came across as just plain rude and O'Herlihy just wanted to stir things up as much as possible.. just more of the hysterical attitude that makes watching games on TV ever more annoying.

[Wolfie]

I thought Sadlier came across as a whinger and made a bit of a balls of himself to be honest. So I guess he filled in for Dunphy pretty well. He went too far and the other guys who had been attacking the management ended up defending them to some extent. But then the whole thing seems to be increasingly about the show rather than any actual analysis.

Didn't like the aggression in the interview with Trap from O'Donoghue which came across as just plain rude and O'Herlihy just wanted to stir things up as much as possible.. just more of the hysterical attitude that makes watching games on TV ever more annoying.

I think the only solution is a Battle Royal featuring RTE Panel, TV3 Panel, Sky Panel, MOTD Panel and Setanta Panel.

Bill gets first shot on the Trident.

[Lionel Ritchie]

I can't recall who described Bradys analysis these days as comparable to Brad Pitt trying to review an Angelina Jolie movie ...but not a bad comparison.

I'm sick of Sadlier already. He talks in a bizarre put-on glove puppet voice and all.

What happened Graham Souness anyway? Did he just grow weary of it all? He always seemed a little exasperated.

Or Blinky Hamann? Bring back Blinky!

[OwlsFan]

I think the right answer is somewhere in between. This team and management have done well but there is justifiable reason for change, to a degree in personell but more so in tactical approach.

Slightly off topic, but can you separate the man (Trapp) from the tactical approach? Are they not inseparable? I have no problem with his tactical approach away from home but I fear for us in every home game (Faroes apart just). Even if we had Sir Alex Ferguson as our manager, I don't belive we would have gone 2 campaigns and a bit unbeaten away from home but I suspect we would have done better at home.

Team selection is a separate issue and Trapp's stubborness (loyalty?) is irritating to say the least but I think the Paul Green thing is a bit of a red herring. How many competitive games has he started for us? I think McCarthy should be in the team and I fear a Whelan/Andrews combination in forthcoming games. But so be if that happens. My rattles shall remain in the pram and please God so will the RTE Panel's (back on topic).

p.s. I agree that Messrs Whelan and Hamilton were negative throughout but you've got to remember with George that once a team takes the lead, he never foresees an equaliser and....oh, danger here!!

[Colbert Report]

Why is Dunphy not on there anymore?

[tetsujin1979]

I think the only solution is a Battle Royal featuring RTE Panel, TV3 Panel, Sky Panel, MOTD Panel and Setanta Panel.

Bill gets first shot on the Trident. yeah, Anchorman style! tonight the streets run red with Shearer's blood!

[backstothewall]

I reckon Roddy Collins could do a lot of damage with a broken bottle

[OwlsFan]

Have to say I really enjoyed the squabble last night with someone (Brady) actually standing up to Dunphy and Laughing Bill (who only laughed a small bit). He was so much in Dunphy's face that he accused Brady of being against free speech and actually gave up and passed the argument over to Giles. That's what the Panel should have been about for the past 20+ years. Debate rather than "I agree with John/Eamon" as nauseum. As Giles and Dunphy made their points I could hear O'Herlihy in the background saying "exactly", "correct" - is he not supposed to be neutral? O'H also grumpily said "We'll have an interview with Trappatoni coming up". He seems to have forgotton his first name.

Whether you agree with Brady or not you have to hand it to him for standing up to the three of them. That was good television.

[Junior]

I agree it was good television. He was really only standing up to Dunphy though. Giles doesnt use hyperbole, so that was just sensible discussion between the two. Bill...well, Bill nods alot.

A far better performance from Brady though compared to his performance after the Kazak game. Perhaps he doesnt have the legs to match the whipper snapper Sadlier?;)

[DannyInvincible]

It's possible to watch the discussion again here:

http://www.rte.ie/sport/player/734/341964/

[OwlsFan]

It's possible to watch the discussion again here:

http://www.rte.ie/sport/player/734/341964/

Anyone pick up on Dunphy's "McCarthy's been treated disgracefully" comment and then McCarthy saying within moments "the boss has been brilliant with me".

A moment to savour.

[Junior]

Yeah, I picked up on that last night and the general vibe that all talk of having 'lost the dressing room' may not be so cut in stone.

[tetsujin1979]

Yeah, I picked up on that last night and the general vibe that all talk of having 'lost the dressing room' may not be so cut in stone.Ken Early mentioned it on Newstalk last night as well: http://media.newstalk.ie/newstalk/media_uploads/upload_mp3/1610FS.mp3
on 33:30 minutes, he said that Robbie Keane made it clear that he still supports Trapattoni, and arguments happen in every squad every week
another (unnamed) player said that he's been in teams where the manager has lost the dressing room, and this is not it

[Spudulika]

Can anyone tell me how the meeja know so much about the inner workings of everything? I watched the discussion yesterday early morning before work and was loving how Brady stuck it to Dunphy and then the players rolling out (especially McCarthy - class act of a kid) and backing the manager. Bill needs to retire to his PR company and stop this crap, he was once a good journalist, now he's a bitter ringmaster of no note. Giles was decent and you could almost hear him say "Leave me out of this." Best panel for a while and thank god Sadlier wasn't on, sadly he started his "career" too shrill and now can only get shriller (if that's the word), at least Dunphy can roll along and siccker people in - how about his "we can win the euro's, we've a good team" crap!

[dong]

Yeah, I picked up on that last night and the general vibe that all talk of having 'lost the dressing room' may not be so cut in stone.

Either they say that or they have to walk.
Thats the reality. Players say these things in interviews all the time. Means absolutely nothing.

[OwlsFan]

Either they say that or they have to walk.
Thats the reality. Players say these things in interviews all the time. Means absolutely nothing.

There are ways of saying these things. You don't have to say "The manager has been brilliant to me". You can simply say "he has my support", "I wouldn't like him to leave". Someone who has been treated "disgracefully" doesn't or wouldn't use the word "brilliant".

[geysir]

Are we supposed to believe that the players had one those famous 'revolts against the system' at half time against the Faroese and decided to change things in the 2nd half?

[tetsujin1979]

Are we supposed to believe that the players had one those famous 'revolts against the system' at half time against the Faroese and decided to change things in the 2nd half?
According to James McCarthy, the manager just told them to keep playing on they would get the win

[Junior]

Either they say that or they have to walk.
Thats the reality. Players say these things in interviews all the time. Means absolutely nothing.

Okay so if we shouldnt take any heed of what the players are actually saying where do we get the notion from, that Trap has "lost the dressing room"? and what substantiates that notion?

[geysir]

According to James McCarthy, the manager just told them to keep playing on they would get the win
But there was a big change in emphasis, so I don't think James was listening too closely to the half time team talk
or he didn't give a full account of what Trap said.
Regardless, there was a radical change for the positive in the 2nd half, but at least no one is coming out with player rebellion conspiracies in order to explain the cause.

[Stuttgart88]

POS will back me up on this. Seconds before Wilson scored I said "look, a full back has gone beyond half way" as if it was something to behold. I think that might have been the first change of tack that was encouarged.

[SwanVsDalton]

POS will back me up on this. Seconds before Wilson scored I said "look, a full back has gone beyond half way" as if it was something to behold. I think that might have been the first change of tack that was encouarged.

The FBs did occasionally venture forward in the first half. Sure I nearly fainted when I saw Coleman make a scything run into the Faroes box after about 20-25 minutes.

[geysir]

I counted a few Westwood hand passes in the 2nd half, maybe he was just resting his toes after the first half exertions.
There was one occasion, Westwood was just about to punt it upfield out of habit, but then faltered mid stride with some degree of consternation after he noticed McCarthy was there waiting for the ball to be thrown to him.

[Murfinator]

Can anyone tell me how the meeja know so much about the inner workings of everything? I watched the discussion yesterday early morning before work and was loving how Brady stuck it to Dunphy and then the players rolling out (especially McCarthy - class act of a kid) and backing the manager. Bill needs to retire to his PR company and stop this crap, he was once a good journalist, now he's a bitter ringmaster of no note. Giles was decent and you could almost hear him say "Leave me out of this." Best panel for a while and thank god Sadlier wasn't on, sadly he started his "career" too shrill and now can only get shriller (if that's the word), at least Dunphy can roll along and siccker people in - how about his "we can win the euro's, we've a good team" crap!

The whole Euro shenanigans of Bill and Dunphy leading the bandwagon for Ireland to make the knockouts for no real apparent reason and then leading the calls for traps head is very strange, I wonder if it was some concerted effort to hype him up for a fall to get rid of him because surely two experienced lads who've been watching this team for 4 years would know better than to predict that and react so strongly when what the neutral expected happened. Brady called it right for the Euro's, he's calling it right now. Giles seems a bit embarrassed by all thats happening, he's a man of rationality who doesn't like the hype and tabloid garbage. He's well out of his comfort zone with the line of chat thats been going on with the panel lately.

But yeah, whatever about Dunphy and Sadlier who are paid to be irritable Bill as the anchor has been an outright pain in the ass pushing his own agenda which should be completely unacceptable. Time for him to move on.

[dong]

Okay so if we shouldnt take any heed of what the players are actually saying where do we get the notion from, that Trap has "lost the dressing room"? and what substantiates that notion?

No player came out in an interview and said that either.
What's your point?

[Junior]

No player came out in an interview and said that either.
What's your point?

That's my point. No player has come out and said/implied the manager has lost the dressing room. In fact 3 that I can think of off hand in the last 48hrs have said the exact opposite.

Yet 'having lost the dressing' appears to be getting cited as fact and another reason why Trap should have been bulleted.