RTE Panel

[Real ale Madrid]

The agenda is not "hidden". It has been there for over 3 years and back to the Charlton etc eras. God knows Bill (not Laughing) said at the end of the Paris debacle that we were to "Rejoice" because we had played a different brand of football despite the devastation of losing out because of the handball. Madness!! Could you imagine in your wildest dreams (nightmares), the host of any TV show saying a nation should rejoice because a team had played well and yet had been knocked out of the world cup by a handball goal. show.


So you criticise me when I question the mentality of supporters who sing the Fields of Athery in the midst of a thrashing on another thread, yet Laughing Bill can't rejoice when we play good football!

As Giles would say : "nonsense, Absolute nonsense there Bill. Can we get back to talking about the football and taking each game as it comes there please?"

[barney]

What's happened to Souness by the way? Thought he was excellent on RTE.

[BonnieShels]

Souness was excellent. I do miss him.
He stopped being on air as a result of some rape comment he made during a match.

This needs to be clarified though.

[barney]

Souness was excellent. I do miss him.
He stopped being on air as a result of some rape comment he made during a match.

This needs to be clarified though.

Was that the Vidic/Torres one? If that's the reason, it's ridiculous.

Souness was a great pundit (sh!te manager but knew what he was on about). Some of his arguments with Dunphy were comical. As much as Dunphy entertains me, he talks a lot of rubbish and Souness was always willing to call him on it. To be fair, Brady does that role quite well too.

[BonnieShels]

Possibly. I don't recall.
It may simply as well that he doesn't want to anymore.

When the four were on together there was nothing like it. Wonderful punditry. The likes of which only the bbc and itv could dream about.

[DannyInvincible]

... you'd swear these three were misleading the public on important issues ffs.

...

They are there because they are popular - weather you or I like them or not.

Bit of a contradiction there? You admit they're popular but deny they're misleading the public? Or were you emphasising the "important issues" (issues more important than football?) part?

[Real ale Madrid]

Bit of a contradiction there? You admit they're popular but deny they're misleading the public? Or were you emphasising the "important issues" (issues more important than football?) part?

What's contradictory ? I was just making the point that they give opinions and there wasn't a need for Owls to dislike them, as at the end of day that's all they have is thier own opinions.

I don't really watch them much but you can't deny they are popular - they have been doing the same thing for decades at this stage. If they weren't popular they would be gone.

[DannyInvincible]

By being popular, they surely influence public opinion with what often happens to be misleading information, no?

[Real ale Madrid]

By being popular, they surely influence public opinion with what often happens to be misleading information, no?

Yes they influence public opinion - but surely misleading information is strong? It's opinion ; neither right or wrong.

[DannyInvincible]

Maybe so, although I thought Dunphy's run-through of "solution players" the other evening could be construed as misleading.

[Real ale Madrid]

Maybe so, although I thought Dunphy's run-through of "solution players" the other evening could be construed as misleading.

Misleading in what way?
I viewed it as players he thought should be in the team in August. Was it not presented as such?

[DannyInvincible]

Misleading in what way?
I viewed it as players he thought should be in the team in August. Was it not presented as such?

OwlsFan has already outlined why the segment was so bizarre in an earlier post of his, but I'll add to it. Bill asked, "Have we made the best of our pool of players available to us?" and stated that what irritated Dunphy more than anything else was that so many players he felt should have been involved were left at home. Dunphy confirmed his irritation and whilst he was certainly arguing that the players mentioned should be used in future, he also used the segment to attack Trap's tournament squad selection by discussing players that were justifiably not in the squad due to injury (Fahey), personal circumstances (McCarthy) or questionable ability in comparison to those already filling their recognised positions (Clark, Coleman, Pilkington). He even mentioned players that Trap had included in the squad or has utilised frequently in the past (McClean, Fahey). Brady further claimed these players "weren't integrated". What a load of nonsense.

[Real ale Madrid]

Still not sure how someone's wrong opinion can be deemed misleading. Newspapers carry opinion pieces everyday with incorrect information. This information itself can be misleading - but are the rte panel deliberately misleading the public ?

The segment you refer to was populist BS from Dunphy - egged on by Bill who proclaimed Eamonn as being very passionate. But I'm not sure it was premeditated or motivated by anything other then thier own opinions.

[backstothewall]

The segment you refer to was populist BS from Dunphy - egged on by Bill who proclaimed Eamonn as being very passionate. But I'm not sure it was premeditated or motivated by anything other then thier own opinions.

Aww come on. That package of clips didn't put itself together and trick the producer into shouting run V.T.

[Real ale Madrid]

Aww come on. That package of clips didn't put itself together and trick the producer into shouting run V.T.

What the hell are you on about? don't isolate the first part of the sentence without reading the rest of it. What's wrong with you ?

The segment was put together to highlight players who should be involved in Dunphyland. It wasn't a premeditated attack on Trapatoni - it was an opininon piece!

[backstothewall]

I completely agree with the first half of the sentence. It was a load of populist bull. But it was also a blistering attack on Trap. Surely the fact that the clips were prepared and ready to go makes it obvious that the whole thing was planned in advance. He even thanked the production assistant who edited the clips together for him.

[Real ale Madrid]

I completely agree with the first half of the sentence. It was a load of populist bull. But it was also a blistering attack on Trap. Surely the fact that the clips were prepared and ready to go makes it obvious that the whole thing was planned in advance. He even thanked the production assistant who edited the clips together for him.

Look we can agree to disagree. It was planned of course but after the spanish game id imagine - they hardly had it ready since day 1 - ready to stike down the Itialian as soon as we slipped up. If they had it ready the night of the Croatian game then I could agree that it was a premeditated attack on the manager, but not after the Spanish game. The game was up then and the focus was starting to shift to the future.

And criticism of the players that he has picked can hardly be construed as a blistering attack on him either.

[backstothewall]

We only disagree on the meaning of the word pre-meditated it seems. For me putting it together after the Spain game is still pre-meditated. The honest thing to do would have been to show it before the Italy game and look like fools if we won and ended the tournament in a reasonably respectable position. But like cowards they waited until the game was over.

Where was Dunphy banging on about Hoolahan before the tournament. Between November and June he was one of the cheerleaders telling us that we have good players. During the tournament the system and style and system were letting us down. And now the players he was building up 3 weeks ago were never good enough and it's all Trap fault for picking them.

He did little else but criticise Whelan and Andrews in qualifying. After the last game against Armenia they went off air before all the groups were settled, and Bosnia were winning in Paris, meaning France would need a play-off and we wouldn't be seeded. He was scathing about Trap, and about the players not being good enough. Whelan and Andrews can't pass the ball and all the usual crap. By half time in the next game we were a goal up away from home in a playoff we had been seeded for, and Andrews had got the goal. Dunphy dropped his agenda, probably fearing a repeat of the world of pain he got himself into during Italia 90.

Dunphy doesn't like this coaches methods, regardless of the results he gets, and will use any opportunity to attack him. He only dropped it when he absolutely had to and that ill-formed package of clips was 8 months of pent up frustration being released. The man is a worm.

[Real ale Madrid]

We only disagree on the meaning of the word pre-meditated it seems. For me putting it together after the Spain game is still pre-meditated. The honest thing to do would have been to show it before the Italy game and look like fools if we won and ended the tournament in a reasonably respectable position. But like cowards they waited until the game was over.

Where was Dunphy banging on about Hoolahan before the tournament. Between November and June he was one of the cheerleaders telling us that we have good players. During the tournament the system and style and system were letting us down. And now the players he was building up 3 weeks ago were never good enough and it's all Trap fault for picking them.

He did little else but criticise Whelan and Andrews in qualifying. After the last game against Armenia they went off air before all the groups were settled, and Bosnia were winning in Paris, meaning France would need a play-off and we wouldn't be seeded. He was scathing about Trap, and about the players not being good enough. Whelan and Andrews can't pass the ball and all the usual crap. By half time in the next game we were a goal up away from home in a playoff we had been seeded for, and Andrews had got the goal. Dunphy dropped his agenda, probably fearing a repeat of the world of pain he got himself into during Italia 90.

Dunphy doesn't like this coaches methods, regardless of the results he gets, and will use any opportunity to attack him. He only dropped it when he absolutely had to and that ill-formed package of clips was 8 months of pent up frustration being released. The man is a worm.

Not sure if I agree with your first paragraph - we were out of the tournament regardless of how we got on against Italy, so for me its irrelevant when the segment aired. THe point of it was the same re. players sitting at home.

Totally agree with the rest of your post - but as I said at the start of this - all they offer is an opinion - right or wrong. And I don't understand the constant whining about them. Although I do on reflection accept that people are entitled to have a go at them on here. I just think its pointless, thats all - they ain't gonna change.

[Stuttgart88]

Are the Irish public really not able to think for themselves? I think they appreciate that the Irish panel is far less banal than the UK panels but equally that there's a fair bit of hype and self-publicity going on.

I do tend to agree that there is always too much of an anti-manager slant, but that has been the same around the whole media, not just TV, since Kerr if not earlier.

Sorry to repeat an earlier remark, but what irked me most was Dunphy having to ask Brady if there's anything coming through the ranks. Anyone with a good interest in Irsih football should know this through the various channels of info available. Is Dunphy really alienated from the likes of Noel King for example, who he could just call for research? He could do worse than to go on here just for background.

[barney]

Are the Irish public really not able to think for themselves? I think they appreciate that the Irish panel is far less banal than the UK panels but equally that there's a fair bit of hype and self-publicity going on.

I do tend to agree that there is always too much of an anti-manager slant, but that has been the same around the whole media, not just TV, since Kerr if not earlier.

Sorry to repeat an earlier remark, but what irked me most was Dunphy having to ask Brady if there's anything coming through the ranks. Anyone with a good interest in Irsih football should know this through the various channels of info available. Is Dunphy really alienated from the likes of Noel King for example, who he could just call for research? He could do worse than to go on here just for background.

Really good point. I read a piece in the last World Cup re the BBC and their pundit's failure to research the teams they were covering. RTE's boys are as bad, particularly Giles. They're being paid to do the work and yet they do very little research on the teams before the games.

I think Giles has a wonderful football brain (Brady too and Dunphy does have a decent brain behind the sensationalist guff). Giles can dissect a game and articulate what he sees very well. He can take players that he's barely seen play and give a good evaluation of them. And that's great at half time or full time but it does irk me that sometimes, before a game, the panel can offer very little insight. It's their job - I wouldn't walk into mine completely unprepared coz I'd expect a kick in the nuts if I did.

[Real ale Madrid]

It's their job - I wouldn't walk into mine completely unprepared coz I'd expect a kick in the nuts if I did.

And t'wod be the lads here lining up to do the kicking :)

[barney]

And t'wod be the lads here lining up to do the kicking :)

Bring it on :D

[OwlsFan]

I think Giles has a wonderful football brain (Brady too and Dunphy does have a decent brain behind the sensationalist guff). Giles can dissect a game and articulate what he sees very well. He can take players that he's barely seen play and give a good evaluation of them. And that's great at half time or full time but it does irk me that sometimes, before a game, the panel can offer very little insight.

Tell me though, what does Giles do other than tug on his jacket, say: "the game is all about getting the ball down and playing", "I am not advocating that we take a risk when playing" , "I agree with Eamon", "goals change games Bill", "I hope I am not repeating myself" ;)


Although I do on reflection accept that people are entitled to have a go at them on here. I just think its pointless, thats all - they ain't gonna change.

It's just called venting. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

[dong]

Tell me though, what does Giles do other than tug on his jacket, say: "the game is all about getting the ball down and playing", "I am not advocating that we take a risk when playing" , "I agree with Eamon", "goals change games Bill", "I hope I am not repeating myself" ;)



It's just called venting. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

That's because football is a simple game the way Giles understands it and he's right imo.
The problem sometimes is Bill's questioning which can be very childish. If you check out Giles on Off The Ball he is asked better questions and is therefore much better to listen to.
The man is unequalled as a pundit imo.

[barney]

That's because football is a simple game the way Giles understands it and he's right imo.
The problem sometimes is Bill's questioning which can be very childish. If you check out Giles on Off The Ball he is asked better questions and is therefore much better to listen to.
The man is unequalled as a pundit imo.

Agree totally. Small example but you hear people peddle rubbish like "We scored too early" and people accept is as valid. I heard Giles pull Bill on it before and said you can't score too early. If an early goal has meant you've sat back and defended then it's not the scoring early that was the problem, it's the reaction to it.

Other stuff as well like a team being one down launching it into the opponents box towards the end of the game. Giles' philosophy on it is that if it's right to pass the ball for 87 minutes then it's still right to pass it from 87-90 mins. Small thing but IMO, he's right where as the default attitude is to panic and punt the ball into your tallest player and pray for a break.

Another example from the other night was "I'm not asking people to hold possession for possession's sake but if you have the ball you pass forward. If you can't go forward, go sideways. If you can't go sideways, then go back." It's simple but it's a very uncomplicated articulation of something that most people don't understand.

He breaks the game down into very simple and uncomplicated philosophies while other people try to complicate it with systems, formations and tactics. Not saying they don't play a part but if you can't pass the ball, no system can turn you into a winner.

[shakermaker1982]

It could be worse. You could have the BBC with Lineker and his s**t puns or ITV with Southgate and Adrian 'no personality' Chiles.

I like having presenters and panelists who have an opinion and are not afraid to say what they think. I might not always agree with it but it's better than coming out with the same banalties week in week out (take a bow Hansen and Shearer).

[tetsujin1979]

I've said it before, what Giles does better than any other pundit I know of is that, after watching three minutes of footage in the build up to any incident (goal, booking, pass, whatever) he can tell you exactly what went right or wrong, and what should have been done instead

Best example I can give is from the last world cup when Germany broke through to score against England. I was convinced that it was simply down to Barry not being as fast as the Geman midfield, but Giles pointed out that immediately before Germany intercepted a pass, Glen Johnson had pushed forward to receive the ball from a throw in from Terry, and if he had stayed in position, then he would have been able to come across and cut out the danger before it developed into anything.

[BonnieShels]

I've said it before, what Giles does better than any other pundit I know of is that, after watching three minutes of footage in the build up to any incident (goal, booking, pass, whatever) he can tell you exactly what went right or wrong, and what should have been done instead

Best example I can give is from the last world cup when Germany broke through to score against England. I was convinced that it was simply down to Barry not being as fast as the Geman midfield, but Giles pointed out that immediately before Germany intercepted a pass, Glen Johnson had pushed forward to receive the ball from a throw in from Terry, and if he had stayed in position, then he would have been able to come across and cut out the danger before it developed into anything.

Not they can compare the same thing. I'm always amazed like you, when I assume one thing happened and a pundit points out something else.
It's the expert eye that Giles and his ilk have that sees these things. That's why we aren't world class ex-players or pundits.

Ken Early once said something telling on OTB one evening, he was commentating on an EPL match and Kenny Cunningham was his co-commentator, an incident occurred (I can't remember what) and he said he had formed his own idea of what happened and Kenny said that this, that and the other happened. Early couldn't believe it, he had seen nothing of what Kenny had said until after he watched the highlights later.
This is a common theme on memory and expertise. Cunningham has it. Giles has it. We don't.

[the bear]

Cunny Kennigham seems to know his stuff he has his eyes on a place on the panel.

I like Didi. Apres match do him well also

[Stuttgart88]

Another example from the other night was "I'm not asking people to hold possession for possession's sake but if you have the ball you pass forward. If you can't go forward, go sideways. If you can't go sideways, then go back." It's simple but it's a very uncomplicated articulation of something that most people don't understand.

He breaks the game down into very simple and uncomplicated philosophies while other people try to complicate it with systems, formations and tactics. The two are actually compatible views. Picking the right players and allocating them the right roles can enhance your ability to pass the ball more incisively. I think in one sense it's a simple game, in an other it's quite complicated.

[barney]

The two are actually compatible views. Picking the right players and allocating them the right roles can enhance your ability to pass the ball more incisively. I think in one sense it's a simple game, in an other it's quite complicated.

Agree completely - it's just a question of how you weight the emphasis and I do believe some people talk formations, tactics and systems too much.

[geysir]

Not a bad effort from Maloney in the chair tonight, though Giles tends to talk to him as if he's still talking to a slow witted O'Herlihy.
Maloney corrected Dunphy on some stats to do with Ronaldo, he also cracked a joke of sorts which Giles didn't get and thought it was stupid.

[the bear]

Ive been a big fan of Moloney ever since he first appeared on the rugrats.

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTOlFIqI0VwVDHlwAjXr88xLbp8kuTRV 3bv652kw8oiHEgIaanv (http://www.google.ie/imgres?hl=en&sa=X&biw=1280&bih=594&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=kWVBeIMa0sWAwM:&imgrefurl=http://themostpretentiousgirlintheworld.blogspot.com/2010/04/probably-my-soulmate-chuckies-dad-from.html&docid=N51QIr_ZPdrkvM&imgurl=http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j305/rinneblack/rugrats-impeccabletaste.jpg&w=547&h=411&ei=PpjjT72dBIKwhAfsjtHaAw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=837&vpy=108&dur=0&hovh=195&hovw=259&tx=137&ty=113&sig=118049083676387857480&page=1&tbnh=128&tbnw=170&start=0&ndsp=23&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:0,i:87)

[osarusan]

I've said it before, what Giles does better than any other pundit I know of is that, after watching three minutes of footage in the build up to any incident (goal, booking, pass, whatever) he can tell you exactly what went right or wrong, and what should have been done instead


This is exactly what I think too - give him a piece of play to analyse and he is superb. He identifies weaknesses and errors better than any other pundit I know.

The problem is that he does basically no research whatsoever into the teams and players he's going to see, so he's sometimes making dated stertypes about teams, like for example the Germans being defensive because they used to be like that 10 years ago. It's also why he always says 'we can only go on what we see' - because he doesn't know much about the teams other than what he's seeing at that point.

[PatJR]

Giles and Dunphy made eejits of themselves last night over Ronaldo. Went down a rat hole with a futile discussion on whether he is a great player. Every argument they made in favour of Messi being great, Ronaldo not so great could be inverted with a different example. And they were just plain wrong about Maradona in relation to tracking back and berating teammates. CR7 did the business last night and they should have left it at that.

[OwlsFan]

I predicted that discussion earlier. Whenever Real Madrid or Portugal play, it just turns into a Ronaldo isn't a great player diatribe. Who cares whether he's "a great player" or not. One of reasons put forward was that he lacked the integrity of the truly great players like Zidane. No mention that the latter got sent off in a WC final for head-butting. That said, it is amazing the way that Ronaldo isn't required (or doesn't bother) to track back when possession is lost. If he didn't do that for Ireland for Trap he'd find himself not in the squad ;) That must leave a gaping hole in the Portuguese defence but presumably they have some tactic to cover this (extra midfielder?). I wish this was discussed. If McGeady or Duffer didn't protect the full back, we'd be crucified even more that we are in that area.

Darragh Maloney has done well so far.

[geysir]

I note the cautious 'so far' bit :)

[barney]

The Ronaldo stuff is tedious and I disagree in the strongest possible terms with Giles and Dunphy. Ronaldo has a face for smacking but he is a great player. He’s done it at every level for many years. Ronaldo has scored important goals at important times in all sorts of matches. Yes he has his faults but so did Maradona and every other player on the planet.

I have to laugh at Dunphy – not so long ago he was saying that Kevin Doyle, John O’Shea, Richard Dunne, Damian Duff and Robbie Keane were world class (in one of his rants about Trap) and yet he will also say that Ronaldo isn’t a top player. It’s that sort of nonsense that destroys his credibility and makes him just pure entertainment rather than a proper pundit.

[OwlsFan]

I note the cautious 'so far' bit :)

Well spotted :) :)

[Wolfie]

.....he also cracked a joke of sorts which Giles didn't get and thought it was stupid.

Yeah - Giles tends to view everything in a literal sense.

Hyperbole gets the red card from John.

If anyone refers to players "feeling 10 foot high tonight" Giles will respond with something like "that's wrong Bill, they wouldn't be 10 foot high".

[Junior]

I have to laugh at Dunphy – not so long ago he was saying that Kevin Doyle, John O’Shea, Richard Dunne, Damian Duff and Robbie Keane were world class (in one of his rants about Trap) and yet he will also say that Ronaldo isn’t a top player. It’s that sort of nonsense that destroys his credibility and makes him just pure entertainment rather than a proper pundit.

I dont get to see too much of the lads other than clips on Youtube or when I get to watch a rerun of a match on RTE that my ma has recorded. However good to read some interesting posts on the subject here.

What the above quote warrants is a nice premeditated package of clips containing some of the contradictions Dunphy /Giles have made over the recent months/years whilst trying to hammer the manager. It would make for good viewing IMO.

Not sure who is best placed to pull together such a piece......Owlsfan perchance? Come on you know you want to.....

[barney]

I dont get to see too much of the lads other than clips on Youtube or when I get to watch a rerun of a match on RTE that my ma has recorded. However good to read some interesting posts on the subject here.

What the above quote warrants is a nice premeditated package of clips containing some of the contradictions Dunphy /Giles have made over the recent months/years whilst trying to hammer the manager. It would make for good viewing IMO.

Not sure who is best placed to pull together such a piece......Owlsfan perchance? Come on you know you want to.....

Saw one a while back on YouTube when Dunphy was lambasting Liverpool a few years back for a performance against Barcelona (I think) where he said, whilst berating others, that "Gerrard is a nothing player".

Then there was another clip straight after that with him having a go at an English manager (probably Eriksson) where he was lambasting him for not being able to get the best out of "world class players like Steven Gerrard".

[barney]

This is it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiCdEUSlmcw

[DannyInvincible]

Does Dunphy still assert that Busquets is a "nothing player"?

[BonnieShels]

Just saw this. Very very funny.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxAR4jpQ4Z0&feature=related

[BonnieShels]

Does Dunphy still assert that Busquets is a "nothing player"?

I assert that Busquets is a nothing player. An odious little whiny shoite.
I could care less that he is a good player with incredible sense of positioning. He rolls around like a mine victim and has such a punchable face.

[IsMiseSean]

Dunphy called the German team ordinary before the start tonight.

[Stuttgart88]

They're not ordinary but they're far from extraordinary either. They are a bit one paced and can be got at.

[IsMiseSean]

Not saying they're extraordinary but they deserve better than to be labelled as ordinary.
If it's a Spain Germany final they'll give them a better game than they did in the WC semi and the Euro final in '08.