Estonia V Ireland - Friday, 11th November 2011 - Euro 2012 Play Off 1st Leg

[Toolik]

Brian Kerr is of the opinion that if we get physical and stop Estonia having time on the ball, Ireland will progress. Indeed he believes Ireland should be far too good for Estonia. And in fairness to Brian Kerr, his Faroe Islands side did beat Estonia at home and were unlucky not to win both games against Estonia so he does know what he is talking about.

Then again Ireland is known for sitting back and letting the opposition have the ball under Trapattoni's leadership. We're also extremely weak when the opposition play three in the middle. If I was you I'd be dancing on the street non-stop at the prospect of meeting us.


Really? In Traps 22 competitive games, we have only been beaten twice and on both occasions, we were beaten by a single goal. If Estonia are to qualify they will have to do something only France and Russia have managed to do and beat us. That's not exactly a prospect I'd be "dancing in the street" about.

Brian Kerr is absolutely correct! That is how you stop Estonia: stop having their time on the ball. I'm not sure about that being physical part though - we're not spanish, we're used to that stuff. Moreover, we're good at it. If Irish go physical, it won't go unanswered. Then it'll just be a physical match. I think Ireland needs to concentrate more on attacking and controlling the ball itself, not on physical defense. We're not a good defensive team, we have conceded in every single game in the qualifiers. Just attack fiercely and we're done! Yet again, Ireland is not that kind of team who could generate immense offensive pressure (like portugal and croatia could for example) throughout the game.

In my opinion, Ireland's play on the pitch has not been as convincing as is it's record under Trap. Am I right? Plus, we don't need a win - a draw could do it. We also have the luxurious privilege of being the underdogs (which the Faroes had agains us as well). You say you won't, but SURELY you will underestimate us a little bit, if not more... :)

PS! Fench Toast, my answer (http://foot.ie/showthread.php?p=1550069#post1550069) to you about the line-ups was approved by the moderator and lies on the forum page 23. Since I'm a Draconian and all...


Yes sorry about that it was just supposed to a humorous comment as the thread seemed to gone so far off topic it had became a thread about mini-buses!!
So it was not really directed at you rather the other people reading the thread, and at least one person 'got it' (according the thanks thing) but you were probably not alone at missing the irony.

I just thought it must have been strange for you to come to a thread about the build up to the game and find us all talking about mini-buses, I could imagine you thinking, "those Irish are a strange bunch with all this mini-bus talk!"

Any how I see you did manage to get a 'mini-bus' joke into your post so well done on that!!

It was one of the better ones I must say!!

I think we might need to park something a bit bigger than a mini bus though.

No swet, dude! Glad you enjoyed the humour. No prejudices agains Irish. I'm having a craic with Irishmen. http://foot.ie/images/icons/icon6.png

***

Haha... penalty discussion. Come on, lads - it's Estonia you're playing. http://foot.ie/images/icons/icon12.png

[French Toasht]

I think if it goes to penalties we will win it. Penalty shootouts are more about mental strength than technique or anything else. Thats one skill our boys do have. I would imagine the Estonians might buckle under the pressure of knowing they are on the verge of a first ever championship in their countries history. That on top of the fact that they will be taking penalties in front of a very partisan Landsdowne Road would make me very confident.

That said this tie really should not be going anywhere near penalties and will hopefully be decided long before that.

[fu1ham]

Duffer's never taken one for us , even though he's got a good shot on him. I don't think he's ever taken a free from in front of the goals either . Great dead ball from the flanks though. He played very well on Sunday and was subbed on about 70 mins, so he should be fresh.

[pineapple stu]

That said this tie really should not be going anywhere near penalties and will hopefully be decided long before that.
I'd agree with this. Estonia seem very similar to Armenia - small country suddenly hits a purple patch, plays some great exciting stuff but gets completely nullified by Trap. Might even go as far as to predict the same 3-1 aggregate score.

[Kingdom]

I think if it goes to penalties we will win it. Penalty shootouts are more about mental strength than technique or anything else. Thats one skill our boys do have. I would imagine the Estonians might buckle under the pressure of knowing they are on the verge of a first ever championship in their countries history. That on top of the fact that they will be taking penalties in front of a very partisan Landsdowne Road would make me very confident.

That said this tie really should not be going anywhere near penalties and will hopefully be decided long before that.
I thanked your post in spite of the first line - I wouldn't be as confident about our mental strength!

[geysir]

That said this tie really should not be going anywhere near penalties and will hopefully be decided long before that.
As long as it's decided in our favor :)
I'm satisfied that Trap answers the press questions about penalties as a matter of fact and doesn't try to bury the question as if penalties (if it comes to that) are something to be feared and not up for discussion.

[Closed Account]

Randolph! Ciaran Kelly was the obvious choice. Trap out.!

[Hale]

Penalties....... possibilities depending who's on the pitch at the time

Keane Walters Andrews Ward Gibson Doyle

Prediction 1 1 in Estonia...................2 1 Ireland in dublin

[French Toasht]

If I was Trap, I would be showing a video of the second leg of the France playoff as all the inspiration the players need. Not alone the fact that it was the most inspirational display of football our lads have shown in years, the sheer will to prevent the feeling of devastation when the final whistle went in Paris would be motivation enough for the players.

[geysir]

We lost that game. That dvd should be burnt.
Trap would only be endorsing the sense of inevitable failure, inferiority complex and victimhood, should he focus on that game as an example of what we should be doing in Tallinn.

[dr_peepee]

Your most technical players should take your penalties. That means Keane, Duff, McGeady, Walters, Cox if he's on the pitch. I'd imagine Dunne would take one too, maybe Whelan.

I've always been a fan of the Full Backs penalty, if you know what i mean. Like Irwin. The happy medium of power and precision.

[French Toasht]

We lost that game. That dvd should be burnt.
Trap would only be endorsing the sense of inevitable failure, inferiority complex and victimhood, should he focus on that game as an example of what we should be doing in Tallinn.

Its interesting, the All Blacks always say that it is a fear of losing that motivates them more than anything. Having a fear is a good thing, as long as there is determination to ensure the feared outcome does not transpire.

[Sullivinho]

I've always been a fan of the Full Backs penalty, if you know what i mean. Like Irwin. The happy medium of power and precision.

I'd go along with that and advocate Finnan's effort in the shootout against Spain as an example of how they should be taken.

[French Toasht]

Dmitri Kruglov is the Estonian Rory Delap. He's the long throw specialist who they use to good effect, and get the big centre backs like Piiroja up front and Ahjupera is a lanky forward as well.

Toolik would I be right in saying the Estonian's would be mostly worried about Duff and McGeady? It was clear the Armenians were concerned about those two and in fact doubled up on them every time they had the ball.

Is there any mods who can take Toolik out of pre moderation? Considering we have an insider on board, who's quite clearly not on the wind up, its kind of inhibiting discussion if his posts only go up long after they were originally posted.

[geysir]

Its interesting, the All Blacks always say that it is a fear of losing that motivates them more than anything. Having a fear is a good thing, as long as there is determination to ensure the feared outcome does not transpire.
In order for that analogy to work for us, would we not need a compliant ref in order to overcome the fear of losing?

[elroy]

Brian Kerr is of the opinion that if we get physical and stop Estonia having time on the ball, Ireland will progress. Indeed he believes Ireland should be far too good for Estonia. And in fairness to Brian Kerr, his Faroe Islands side did beat Estonia at home and were unlucky not to win both games against Estonia so he does know what he is talking about.

Then again Ireland is known for sitting back and letting the opposition have the ball under Trapattoni's leadership. We're also extremely weak when the opposition play three in the middle. If I was you I'd be dancing on the street non-stop at the prospect of meeting us.

The faroes results certainly would be encouraging however, it was at the end of the campaign that they really got the results that make you sit up and notice, beating Serbia away in particular.

[French Toasht]

The faroes results certainly would be encouraging however, it was at the end of the campaign that they really got the results that make you sit up and notice, beating Serbia away in particular.

They beat Serbia away at the start of the campaign ie October 2010. It was the same weak as Serbia had been reprimanded for their fans behaviour in Italy. So in fairness, they did catch Serbia at a low moment.

In 2011, they lost 6 games in a row (admittedly a few were friendlies) but that is a striking statistic all the same. Respect them, but lets not talk about them as world beaters either.

[elroy]

Sorry meant Slovenia not Serbia.

But definitely agree with your overall analysis, respect but not too much. I think we should go for a score draw at least in the first leg. At home they don't appear to be exactly formidable.

[French Toasht]

In order for that analogy to work for us, would we not need a compliant ref in order to overcome the fear of losing?

No I wasn't referring to anything regarding the handball incident, but to be motivated by the will to avoid the heart break of falling at the final hurdle, ie Paris, Turkey etc. The All Blacks players stated that they were motivated by the fear of losing, ie fear of not winning a world cup on home soil, the fear of being the first All Black team to lose to an Irish side.

Looking at the images of dejected Irish players at the final whistle in previous playoffs, ie Paris, Bursa, Brussels and Anfield, can be hugely motivational for players and ensure a desire not to end up in a similar situation again.

[Stuttgart88]

It doesn't surprise me that Duff isn't good at penalties. He's not a crisp ball striker, he tends to float balls in rather than drill them. He's a placer rather than a pacer, and given his one-on-one record I don't think he's that confident in front of goal.

Being the football geek that I am I actually watch players' ball striking abilities.

Robbie clearly has the knack.
Andrews is a good ball striker - but then so was Matt Holland.
So too is Walters.
I'd trust Whelan.
Dunne is a mean ball striker.
Given is a good ball striker, and mentally strong.
I'd say Fahey is a good penno taker.
Likewise Cox.

Who'd I be nervous about, as well as Duff?

Despite having taken pennos at club level I'd have concerns about McGeady & Doyle. Doyle has missed a few for Wolves and Reading. Ward strikes a ball well but I'm not sure about his mentality. He strikes me as one of those guys who'd call a coin toss wrong 8 times out of 10.

St. Ledger - I think he'd roll the sleeves up, run up confidently and then it's anyone's guess. Likewise Kelly.

I'm also a fan of full backs and pennos. Anyone remember Ray Stewart? Steve Finnan in Suwon. Irwin. Harte.

[French Toasht]

It doesn't surprise me that Duff isn't good at penalties. He's not a crisp ball striker, he tends to float balls in rather than drill them. He's a placer rather than a pacer, and given his one-on-one record I don't think he's that confident in front of goal.

Being the football geek that I am I actually watch players' ball striking abilities.

Robbie clearly has the knack.
Andrews is a good ball striker - but then so was Matt Holland.
So too is Walters.
I'd trust Whelan.
Dunne is a mean ball striker.
Given is a good ball striker, and mentally strong.
I'd say Fahey is a good penno taker.
Likewise Cox.

Who'd I be nervous about, as well as Duff?

Despite having taken pennos at club level I'd have concerns about McGeady & Doyle. Doyle has missed a few for Wolves and Reading. Ward strikes a ball well but I'm not sure about his mentality. He strikes me as one of those guys who'd call a coin toss wrong 8 times out of 10.

St. Ledger - I think he'd roll the sleeves up, run up confidently and then it's anyone's guess. Likewise Kelly.

I'm also a fan of full backs and pennos. Anyone remember Ray Stewart? Steve Finnan in Suwon. Irwin. Harte.

Really and truely you can speculate on various players but you will never know until they are in that situation. Look back at all the champions league finals that have been decided in recent years, look at the names of people who missed, Trezegeut, Seedorf, Shevchenko, Pirlo, Ronaldo and Anelka. All players you would put your house on to score if it was a normal EPL game at Wolves but in intense pressure situations they buckled. As far as I'm concerned anyone could miss or any one could score for Ireland, who thought Dave O'Leary would put away a winner?

Just in general I think should it go to penalties, the reletively newly independent country on the verge of qualification for the first major tournament in front of a hostile Dublin crowd may not have the nerve to see themselves over the line.

Again, I expect the game to be resolved long before penalties.

[tricky_colour]

Oh dear. Perhaps not then.

Yep duff is best out on the wing, putting the ball in the back of the net is just not his strength.
It's a bit like a 'black ball complex' in snooker, the extra pressure seems to get to some people.

[theworm2345]

I have a question from 2009 that still hasn't been answered. If we do go to extra time after the 2nd Leg in Dublin, would away goals still count double in the extra time period (i.e. if we scored and then they scored they'd go through)? The obvious answer would be they do, but then obviously the away side has a somewhat unfair advantage.

[the bear]

I have a question from 2009 that still hasn't been answered. If we do go to extra time after the 2nd Leg in Dublin, would away goals still count double in the extra time period (i.e. if we scored and then they scored they'd go through)? The obvious answer would be they do, but then obviously the away side has a somewhat unfair advantage.

yes they count.

its a definite advantage in my eyes, its supposed to even up the odds for having to play an extra half hour away from home

[geysir]

No I wasn't referring to anything regarding the handball incident,.
I was referring to the All Blacks needing a compliant ref in order to win the game they were so afraid of not winning.

[geysir]

You wouldn't call McGeady a good striker of the ball, nor the type of player when placing the ball on the spot who exudes the confidence that would loosen the hands from your eyes, but he has poked home the pressure penalties time and time again. I'd take him anyday ahead of a player who hasn't converted one on the pitch.

[DannyInvincible]

I have a question from 2009 that still hasn't been answered. If we do go to extra time after the 2nd Leg in Dublin, would away goals still count double in the extra time period (i.e. if we scored and then they scored they'd go through)? The obvious answer would be they do, but then obviously the away side has a somewhat unfair advantage.

They count as away goals. One of then very significant drawbacks of the rule, that, in my opinion. Maybe the fairest solution would be a replay at a neutral venue if the teams are still tied after 180 minutes.

[Stuttgart88]

You wouldn't call McGeady a good striker of the ball, nor the type of player when placing the ball on the spot who exudes the confidence that would loosen the hands from your eyes, but he has poked home the pressure penalties time and time again. I'd take him anyday ahead of a player who hasn't converted one on the pitch.Yes, except that he seems a different player for Ireland than he has for his clubs - more reserved, less confident. But as Toashtie says, it's all speculation.

[pineapple stu]

Maybe the fairest solution would be a replay at a neutral venue if the teams are still tied after 180 minutes.
Don't really have time for that in the international schedule in fairness. The way it is is probably the best option.

[the bear]

Don't really have time for that in the international schedule in fairness. The way it is is probably the best option.

if its all square after 180 mins, they should just go straight to penos

[elroy]

if its all square after 180 mins, they should just go straight to penos

Trap raised this issue in his press conference the day after the France away game. He suggested the exact same as yourself should be adopted rather than extra time in the second leg. Needless to say FIFA/UEFA did nothing.

[French Toasht]

if its all square after 180 mins, they should just go straight to penos

Then again, I wouldn't like to be the Estonian that has to walk half the pitch to take a peno in front of the singing section in Landsdowne. The rule is perfectly just as it stands.

[Supreme feet]

The view of Estonia's centre-back, Raio Piiroja...

http://examiner.ie/sport/soccer/estonia-star-piiroja-gets-his-shot-at-the-big-time-173273.html#ixzz1dFK5FciP


He insisted: "Everyone here likes to compare this to the Northern Ireland match that we won in Belfast last month but that is not a good comparison. This Ireland will be totally different, even to the team that played here 10 years ago, because 10 years ago they were like a typically British team, playing a lot of long balls straight away.

"This is different. Now Ireland is pretty creative as well under Trapattoni. He is a great manager who has made a big difference. Ireland are playing much better football now, are more organised, have only conceded one goal in nine games and don’t play a straight game anymore. It will not be easy for us."

Interesting... :p

[DannyInvincible]

Why on earth would our play-off against Estonia be compared to a game in Belfast where they happened to beat NI last month? :confused:

Whether or not we're "pretty creative" nowadays is one thing, but if Estonians assume we play at a standard as poorly as NI, they'll be in for a bit of a surprise.

Piiroja would certainly be correct if he was to say that we're a more organised outfit now than we have been in recent years, but we were also accomplished at the back in 2000-2001 when we beat Estonia 2-0 both at home and away. We only conceded 5 goals throughout the qualification campaign for the 2002 World Cup, or 6 if you include the play-off games against Iran. That was over a total of 12 games in which we also scored 23 goals. In fact, we conceded the least number of goals in our group that campaign. Portugal conceded two more than us whilst the Dutch conceded a total of 9. As a comparison, in our qualification group this time round, we conceded 7 goals over 10 games.

Anyway, how's the buzz building up for this at home? It's hard to gauge when I'm off the mainland. :)

[Hibs4Ever]

Unreal that they would compare this in anyway similar to their game against a team of group minnows

[Hibs4Ever]

The Ref for the 1st Leg seems to have some good experience

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Kassai

[Kingdom]

We've had hiom before!

[Acornvilla]

Anyway, how's the buzz building up for this at home? It's hard to gauge when I'm off the mainland. :)

No idea i'm in limerick where no one understands anything but hurl'n and Munster, while in an art college where no one understands sport.

I'm excited thou!

[tetsujin1979]

Excellent article on the opinion of some Irish fans on Trapattoni's management: http://www.football365.com/f365-says/7299220/F365-Says

[ifk101]

Excellent article on the opinion of some Irish fans on Trapattoni's management: http://www.football365.com/f365-says/7299220/F365-Says

Excellent? :) Did you write it yourself?

[geysir]

The things is, now we are in as good a position as most would have hoped or expected, going in to the playoffs as seeds, but we have to wait until the playoffs are over before we can say Trap has done a good or not job.

[Toolik]

Toolik would I be right in saying the Estonian's would be mostly worried about Duff and McGeady? It was clear the Armenians were concerned about those two and in fact doubled up on them every time they had the ball.

The coaching staff has been publicly very secretive about their strategy (they think they can win http://foot.ie/images/icons/icon12.png). Thus, nobody knows what they fear about Ireland or with what they try to surprise the opponent. As of me, I really don't know what to fear about this Irish team myself. You are well represented on your wings, no arguing about that. But I'm more concerned about the quality of execution - Ireland only needs 1-2 chances for a cracker, Estonia always needs to make 10 shots and effortless work for a goal and it still might not come because of a bad execution. One thing's for sure, Given will be tested properly. Trap seems to have relatively good karma as well. I know, it's not a reliable argument, but i'm intimidated about that.


Why on earth would our play-off against Estonia be compared to a game in Belfast where they happened to beat NI last month? :confused:

Whether or not we're "pretty creative" nowadays is one thing, but if Estonians assume we play at a standard as poorly as NI, they'll be in for a bit of a surprise.

Piiroja would certainly be correct if he was to say that we're a more organised outfit now than we have been in recent years, but we were also accomplished at the back in 2000-2001 when we beat Estonia 2-0 both at home and away. We only conceded 5 goals throughout the qualification campaign for the 2002 World Cup, or 6 if you include the play-off games against Iran. That was over a total of 12 games in which we also scored 23 goals. In fact, we conceded the least number of goals in our group that campaign. Portugal conceded two more than us whilst the Dutch conceded a total of 9. As a comparison, in our qualification group this time round, we conceded 7 goals over 10 games.

Don't worry. Nobody over here, whose decisions or actions matter, expects Ireland to be as dissaranged as NI. And I think that Piiroja is just messing your minds with that "creativity under Trap" talk.

With all due respect to your current team, I think the 2002 team was better. They were unlucky not to reach quaterfinals of WC and who knows - they could've gone even further. Yet, football itself has changed - maybe the current team is as good as the one in 2002, but other teams have progressed. Stagnation? Just a thought - I'm an amateur in Irish football.

[punkrocket]

In defence of defenders.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gaj2vONg67I
Fairly lifts the spirits

[koneinc]

In defence of defenders.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gaj2vONg67I
Fairly lifts the spirits

Great link :-)

"I love Ireland" :ball::p

[Lionel Ritchie]

Everyone in the squad taking full part in this mornings training according to 11am RTE news. Flying out after lunch.

[geysir]

One of the Estonian players is quoted as saying,
"Everyone here likes to compare this to the Northern Ireland match that we won in Belfast last month but that is not a good comparison. This Ireland will be totally different, even to the team that played here 10 years ago, because 10 years ago they were like a typically British team, playing a lot of long balls straight away" .."This is different. Now Ireland is pretty creative as well under Trapattoni"

Perhaps we play more pretty creative long balls?

[Charlie Darwin]

He's probably thinking of Iceland. One letter and ten years.

[Kingdom]

There is no excitement where I am, be that at home in the bog, at work in the city, or travelling on the train. Like acorn above, I'm buzzing, but not sure many others are. Irish people is stupid

[Kingdom]

The things is, now we are in as good a position as most would have hoped or expected, going in to the playoffs as seeds, but we have to wait until the playoffs are over before we can say Trap has done a good or not job.

It seems like a contradiction doesn't it. Personally, I felt reaching the play-off's should have been the requisite achievement, and as the group wore on, that feeling never really changed. We should have won in Zilina, but didn't deserve anything in moscow, so it's swings and roundabouts.
The play-offs are a lottery, and it is only fair to judge them after the draw is made. Had we drawn Portugal or even Bosnia, or the misfortune of France again, then elimination at the play-off stage wouldn't necessarily mean non-renewal of contract.
Elimination to Estonia, in my mind, would have to mean a search for a new manager. There shouldn't be any other outcome.

[Silly Billy G]

I have secured the pass from the missus if we make it to the Euros, i am confident we will overcome Estonia. Any ideas as to where we will we based if we Qualify ? Or ideas around where to book a flight too, i am tempted to book a flight to Krakow or Warsaw now and try and make my way to wherever the Irish team is playing from there. There doesnt seem to be many flights from Ireland to the Ukraine so fingers crossed we avoid going there.

I have been to Poland before (Torun) and it was a mighty spot.