Predict the Squad/ Starting Lineup for Macedonia [Archive] - Page 13

Stuttgart88

25/03/2011, 4:59 PM

-------Westwood------
Foley-Sledge-Clark-Kilbane
McGeady-Whelan-Gibson-Duff
-----Keane--Doyle-----Posted on 18th when JOS had withdrawn, and when I thought Dunne was injured but SSL fit. If I'd known it was the other way around I'd have gone with Dunne & Clark.

So, I got Foley right before Malahide(!), and the midfield 4. You can see I went for Clark as back-up CB which confirms what I have said this afternoon.

Murfinator

25/03/2011, 5:05 PM

Razors left peg

25/03/2011, 5:21 PM

After all the talk of mccarthy finally gonna be tied to us after this game,hopefully, I wonder if theres any danger of clark declaring for England again in disgust of seeing kilbane and o Dea picked ahead of him :)

geysir

25/03/2011, 5:24 PM

Considering St Ledger's fitness test went down to the wire after a late training ground tackle from that liability/ loose cannon Clark, I think in all fairness that getting 10 out 11 right, with St Ledger in your team, should get close to full marks.

Stuttgart88

25/03/2011, 5:24 PM

Ha ha, but he can't.

I think Murf calls it right myself.

gilberto_eire

25/03/2011, 5:30 PM

My thoughts

-> Kilbane at LB is the right choice in such an inexperienced backline. A no brainer in these circumstances.
-> Gibson over Green is the right choice. Green is incredibly limited and Trap seems to have realised this.
-> McGeady over Lawrence/Coleman/Fahey is a daring choice and I applaud Trap for that. This is one that could backfire or be genius, but its an attacking move I didn't expect given how seldom he's started both Duff and McGeady in the past.
-> O'Dea over Clark I'm unsure about.

I'd give you the Kilbane experience if this was club football and we were talking 17/18 years old being given their first game..... but these lads are playing week in and week out for their clubs in packed grounds, you just don't get inexperience to begin with in International football

It's not as if Kilbane is even a LB to begin with and to compound the issue he doesn't even play there for his club team.

Stuttgart88

25/03/2011, 5:38 PM

Is O'Dea making his compititive debut? If yes, I thin k that's 3 of the back 5 making competitive debuts. 4 out of 5 would be even hairier. Whatever about experience, you need leaders. KK has that. Otherwise we'd really only have Dunne as a "personality". I suspect Trap thinks that Clark might be a "leetle shy". I think O'Dea is limited but quite a strong character. So is McShane though!

Clark might have started LB if we had our 2 regular CBs.

geysir

25/03/2011, 5:38 PM

Giles was asked on Newstalk if Trap should not be looking to the future, re Kilbane selection?
Giles says, "the future is the next game".

Charlie Darwin

25/03/2011, 5:45 PM

I suspect Trap thinks that Clark might be a "leetle shy".
I suspect Sean St. Ledger disagrees :D

Noelys Guitar

25/03/2011, 6:32 PM

SkStu

25/03/2011, 6:34 PM

some scary sh1t in that team - Kilbane (legend) just shouldnt be in there and how O'Dea derserves a game at CB ahead of premiership regular Clark is baffling. How Clark is also behind Kilbane is a bit of a head-scratcher too.

Thanks be to **** that Green is out of the team even if it is the spoofer Gibson in ahead of hime. Hopefully Long will get a chance to play at some stage - serious prospect there.

1-1 still my prediction though will also say that if Long gets decent playing time he might sneak the winner..

Noelys Guitar

25/03/2011, 6:42 PM

My optimism we will win is based on Duff and Doyle returning and Long, McCarthy, Clark and Fahey on the bench. And I bet we see Long, Clark and McCarthy on the pitch before the 70 min tomorrow.

Stuttgart88

25/03/2011, 6:53 PM

Here's the highlights of the Ireland v Russia game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUmjlywAzmc&feature=related 53 seconds in.

Look at Kilbane for Russia's second goal. First of all he is ball watching. Secondly he is out of position and then he compunds it by not trying to close down the winger. He then goes to the edge of the box and meekly sticks out his leg. Awful defending. What he brings to the team now is beyond me.By that logic only Shane Long and Kevin Doyle should play for us again. We were dreadful.

I thought that goal was debated here before - Kilbane was marking his man and the runner was not picked up by McGeady, no?

Would you have 4 out of 5 making competitive debuts at the back? It'd be a bold move and I'm all for gambles, but you can see the reasoning.

They ran riot over us in the first half. Nobody picked up anybody.

geysir

25/03/2011, 7:00 PM

We'll win this one pulling up.

Murfinator

25/03/2011, 7:07 PM

I'd give you the Kilbane experience if this was club football and we were talking 17/18 years old being given their first game..... but these lads are playing week in and week out for their clubs in packed grounds, you just don't get inexperience to begin with in International football

It's not as if Kilbane is even a LB to begin with and to compound the issue he doesn't even play there for his club team.

I don't mean in the sense that they'll be crapping their pants at the occasion and need reassuring, More a team leadership issue than holding their hands. Westwood/O'Dea/Foley aren't going to be doing any sort of organisation because they're rookies in this side and how it operates. You need someone there watching the defensive line, ordering people around at corners, deciding who takes throw ins and making calls for where to give the ball. Little things like that, you just can't expect newcomers to any team to be demanding like that its nothing to do with age.

Noelys Guitar

25/03/2011, 7:10 PM

By that logic only Shane Long and Kevin Doyle should play for us again. We were dreadful.

I thought that goal was debated here before - Kilbane was marking his man and the runner was not picked up by McGeady, no?

Would you have 4 out of 5 making competitive debuts at the back? It'd be a bold move and I'm all for gambles, but you can see the reasoning.

They ran riot over us in the first half. Nobody picked up anybody.

But go back through all our recent games. Kilbane has been at fault for 4 goals through this and the last campaign. He is directly going to affect how Duff (and possibly McGeady if they switch wings) plays tomorrow night. He can't get up and down the pitch anymore. So to me it is a much greater risk to play him than not to play him. And it certainly won't help O'Dea if Kilbane is off the pace of the game. Its a great pity St Ledger is out but lets see how this defense handles things tomorrow. I'll have my fingers crossed.

Stuttgart88

25/03/2011, 7:19 PM

I just think we've got to make do with some risky options. I'm comfortable enough with KK without having any great enthusiasm for him at LB. I hope the team plays a bold game. That's more important than a bold selection.

Predator

25/03/2011, 7:42 PM

I don't mean in the sense that they'll be crapping their pants at the occasion and need reassuring, More a team leadership issue than holding their hands. Westwood/O'Dea/Foley aren't going to be doing any sort of organisation because they're rookies in this side and how it operates. You need someone there watching the defensive line, ordering people around at corners, deciding who takes throw ins and making calls for where to give the ball. Little things like that, you just can't expect newcomers to any team to be demanding like that its nothing to do with age.I see what you're saying, but it's not as if these lads are rookies to the set-up. Or the game.

Predator

25/03/2011, 7:45 PM

Charlie Darwin

25/03/2011, 7:49 PM

But go back through all our recent games. Kilbane has been at fault for 4 goals through this and the last campaign. He is directly going to affect how Duff (and possibly McGeady if they switch wings) plays tomorrow night. He can't get up and down the pitch anymore. So to me it is a much greater risk to play him than not to play him. And it certainly won't help O'Dea if Kilbane is off the pace of the game. Its a great pity St Ledger is out but lets see how this defense handles things tomorrow. I'll have my fingers crossed.
Which ones?

tommy_c12000

25/03/2011, 8:13 PM

It's impossible to take Trap seriously anymore. He's an absolute joke.

Kilbane (League 1) or O'Dea (SPL reject) starting in front of Clark (with 1,529 minutes of Premiership football behind him this season) is incomprehensible. Acknowledging the fact that he has been a bit of a journey man around the Villa team, he is still far less a risk than the other two starters. Not starting McCarthy (best young prospect in premiership along with Wilshere and Bale) is another grave error. Whelan (with a fine total of 675 mins of premiership football this season) and Gibson (with an equally impressive 404 minutes) are in our engine room instead of McCarthy. Put simply our 2 centre midfielders do not even have 12 premiership full games between them this season! That is a frightening stat!!

I try not to pay too much heed to Trap's embarrassingly inadequate selections because it angers me too much. Irish football will not move forward until we get rid of Trap.

The real shame of it all is that there are some really promising players like Coleman, McCarthy and Clark (not to mention the likes of Clifford, Henderson and Duffy who will soon to come on the scene). Throw into the mix the likes of McGeady, Duff, Keane, Doyle, Long, Dunne and Given, and we could be a serious outfit with the right manager at the helm.

It is far harder to lose your place in the side (Green must feel hard done by. . . .that hamstring injury against Slovakia cost him dearly. . . .) rather than playing your way into it. The only way new players are given a chance is by default, when injury forces Trap's hand. It's a real shame.

Let's be having you Charlie . . . . . . must try to find that "Trap Out" thread, have until tomorrow night to find it. . . . . .

Stuttgart88

25/03/2011, 8:26 PM

He was definitely at fault for the one he scored against Andorra.

Bulgaria away was awful.

geysir

25/03/2011, 8:39 PM

This one?

http://media.tcm.ie/media/images/k/KevinKilbaneVAndorraSep2010.jpg

Noelys Guitar

25/03/2011, 8:46 PM

tetsujin1979

25/03/2011, 8:47 PM

Surprised nobody has picked up on Trapattoni's comments on starting Gibson - that the line Macedonia defend on is inside his shooting range
So when he gets the ball in an advanced position, he'll more than likely be at a distance he can score from, with time to shoot

Charlie Darwin

25/03/2011, 8:51 PM

The four are both Bulgaria games. The Russia game and the Georgia away game (similiar to the Russia game only this time he was next to the defender when he half turned his back and threw out a weak left leg. Thats an experience I can do without)
Bulgaria at home was not his fault - he did everything right and can't be responsible for nobody tracking Petrov's run from midfield. Bulgaria away was dreadful. Russia he made the wrong choice for but was put in an impossible position by McGeady. Don't remember the Georgia one - will have to look it up.

SkStu

25/03/2011, 8:54 PM

This one?

http://media.tcm.ie/media/images/k/KevinKilbaneVAndorraSep2010.jpg

thats quite an epic photo - any chance of a larger version Geysir?

MeathDrog

25/03/2011, 9:00 PM

Quoting from 'El Trap' himself...

'I have told Gibson to get on the ball and when he is on the ball, to shoot.
'The way they play, it is better for Gibson, who can control the ball quickly and shoot.
Dear me. Gibson only manages to get about 1 of 5 of his shots on target, most of them end up in Row Z.

'Against opponents who are more technical and creative, Paul Green may be more suited because he is very aggressive.
What? Paul Green isn't suited to play against ANY team, simply because he lacks any technical ability and is simply not good enough.

'But in this game, we will have a lot of space until we get to the edge of the box, and I have told Gibson and Aiden McGeady as well to shoot whenever they can.
Great. Solid plan, what with all the goals McGeady has scored for us....

'It will be very difficult to work our way into the box, and shooting from outside the box is a good option for us. That is the reason why Gibson and not Paul Green is starting.'
More bullsh*t. This tells us that Green is ahead of Fahey, McCarthy etc. in the pecking order for selection in the cntre of midfield. But no, we won't pick Green, because we need Gibson to have pop shots and McGeady to threaten to look like he's going to do something....
Don't get me wrong, Gibson played well against Wales and scored a good goal, but it would be foolish to let that mask over the amount of times he was desperately average for Ireland in the middle, and the fact that the majority of his shots end up nowhere near the goal.

I was a lot more optimistic earlier in the week. Now I'm thinking that this could end up as a draw....

geysir

25/03/2011, 9:14 PM

thats quite an epic photo - any chance of a larger version Geysir?
Not that I know of. I grabbed it from the Examiner (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/kfeysnkfqley/rss2/)

Reminds me of that photo after McAteer scored v Holland

rebelmusic

25/03/2011, 9:22 PM

Only thing wrong with that selection is O'Dea at CB, should be Clarke 100%

With Clarke as CB, KK is the best for Full back.

Anyone who thinks McCarthy should start doesn't have a clue. He has played 15 minutes for Ireland and is far too young to be dumped in there with a team that inexperienced. He'll get his cap from the bench and will hopefully impress.

O'Dea shouldn't even be in the squad.

geysir

25/03/2011, 9:26 PM

..
Don't get me wrong, Gibson played well against Wales and scored a good goal, but it would be foolish to let that mask over the amount of times he was desperately average for Ireland in the middle, and the fact that the majority of his shots end up nowhere near the goal.

Even by Darron's standards for us, he did not play well against Wales, aside from the goal of course. He was okay, middling, average, not a performance that you would think nailed him the CM spot.
If you think he did play well then I'm sure we will be alright at CM because he can play better than that. Also it sounds like Trap is giving him some sort of a (temporary) license to get forward.

MeathDrog

25/03/2011, 9:40 PM

Even by Darron's standards for us, he did not play well against Wales, aside from the goal of course. He was okay, middling, average, not a performance that you would think nailed him the CM spot.
If you think he did play well then I'm sure we will be alright at CM because he can play better than that. Also it sounds like Trap is giving him some sort of a (temporary) license to get forward.

He played well by his standards and had a good strike on goal, but Wales were very poor and played at a slow tempo.

I wouldn't discourage any player to have shots on goal like, but it just sounds like this is one of Trappatoni's main gameplans that we have to depend on to win. I hope that is not the case.

Charlie Darwin

25/03/2011, 9:49 PM

I don't think he was poor against Wales. He did his usual steady job and we did dominate that area of the pitch, but I don't think the current Ireland team are used to finding space so he can show off his excellent passing range (although Gibson is no better in that respect). If you're looking for somebody to take the initiative in a game, Darron will probably never be it, but he is a player who will enable us to hang onto the ball more.

Kingdom

25/03/2011, 9:55 PM

.....
AS for Gibson, well you can see the reasoning - he has been there or thereabouts for United since Xmas, and to be fair it was the stick which Trap beat him with for long enough, so in a way it's put up or shut up time. But it is nice to see an explanation from Trap (re the line at which the Macedonian's defend) - that's what he's paid to do, and if it comes off well then well done.
We've a centre midfielder that loves to take the ball forward and keept the play progressing and taking pot shots all day long... I think we're underestimating just how forward thinking this team is that's been picked.

....... Doyle has done his usual magic trick as a battering ram (particularily so given the mention of Westwoods boomers as an attacking tool)

..... Whether people want to believe it, with the front 6 that he has picked, there is a goal threat from each one....

Surprised nobody has picked up on Trapattoni's comments on starting Gibson - that the line Macedonia defend on is inside his shooting range
So when he gets the ball in an advanced position, he'll more than likely be at a distance he can score from, with time to shoot

I did, just didn't emphasise it, I assumed most would have read what I read into it.

Stuttgart88

25/03/2011, 10:04 PM

Trap is encouraging his midfielders to shoot. What is wrong with that? He may have other tactics in mind but he'd be stupid to reveal anything publicly.

Talk is cheap. Let's see how they play tomorrow. As was said above, as Trap selections go, this one is reasonably bold so let's hope they play assertively and expressively.

The one thing I'm looking for is tempo. If we're better than them we'll beat them by moving the ball quicker than they can react to. If we're not better than them we'll only win by being direct.

Crosby87

25/03/2011, 11:05 PM

Ireland get 3 and Big Mac Attack plays and I will be happy.
I think there has been more talk for this one than the 2 with France, quite honestly. Kinda weird.

the bear

26/03/2011, 1:15 AM

o'dea ahead of clarke. what is trap on? it's like he always throws in at least one ridiculous decision just to show us he's in charge.

i hope darren has a blinder tommorow but even if he does it will still of been a stupid decision. getting really sick of trap at this stage

SkStu

26/03/2011, 3:29 AM

I think there has been more talk for this one than the 2 with France, quite honestly. Kinda weird.

its been 6 months since our last competitive game - i think that has a lot to do with it!!

Stuttgart88

26/03/2011, 8:15 AM

Trap explains O'Dea selection here by saying that O'Dea is a different type of CB than Clark, a "stopper", and more experienced.

Conservative? No doubt. Ridiculous? Discuss....

I don't think so myself, but Dunne has a big job on his broad shoulders to keep O'Dea concentrating and doing the right things.

But if there is a surprise package, it’s the selection of O’Dea, currently on loan at Ipswich from Celtic, who has been chosen ahead of Ciaran Clark to partner Dunne because, says Trapattoni, O’Dea is a specialist stopper and a player with more consistent experience in a central position than the highly- rated Aston Villa newcomer currently playing for his club at left-back.

"Stopper is stopper," said Trapattoni. "We need experience in this position and O’Dea has more experience."

Today's Examiner (http://www.examiner.ie/sport/soccer/trap-calls-for-ireland-to-shoot-on-sight-149439.html#ixzz1Hh8hKG9A)

Stuttgart88

26/03/2011, 8:21 AM

Also, I think we've all overlooked Wilson's ability to play CB.

AlaskaFox

26/03/2011, 8:24 AM

Anyone who is still calling Clark "Clarke" at this stage should really be questioning their rights to berate Trapattoni for his selection problems. If this Clarke fella is the answer to all our problems, how come you can't spell his name right?

Stuttgart88

26/03/2011, 8:28 AM

Add today's Irish Times to that list. They had a good article by Malone with a pic of Clark, with his name spelt Clarke.

mark12345

26/03/2011, 8:54 AM

spelt? Try spelled.

Stuttgart88

26/03/2011, 9:02 AM

Both are correct

geysir

26/03/2011, 9:06 AM

What I garner from Trap is that he pictures us dominating the game - dominating possession, creating chances by the score.

What fans here are picturing from this team is panic, pressure and at best hanging on to a one goal lead.

Stuttgart88

26/03/2011, 9:09 AM

I can see every variation possible

geysir

26/03/2011, 9:18 AM

I see every variation, but in proportion. The selection of Gibson is a confident one.

Junior

26/03/2011, 9:59 AM

Also, I think we've all overlooked Wilson's ability to play CB.

Or indeed O'Deas ability to play LB?:D

It is indeed a very positive team. 2 wide midfielders who are basically attacking players, a strike partnership (becoming a dieing art as Stutts posted some weeks ago). One of the CM pairing who does his best work in the opposition half.

All this coupled with Traps consistent comments on us being the dominant force, playing in the opp half, encouragement to shoot from distance.

First 10 minutes will be key - high tempo, a few crosses/ shots, their fb's under pressure.

Can't wait now.

Come on lads!!!!!!

Noelys Guitar

26/03/2011, 10:46 AM

We dominated the first ten minutes of the Russia game and that didn't work out too well.. Nothing is going to change. If we get a one goal lead we are going to try defend it. People should completely forget the friendly against Wales as it will have no bearing on todays match.

Bottle of Tonic

26/03/2011, 11:00 AM

I wouldn't say the decision to play O'Dea is a totally ridiculous one. He's well capable of a decent game. He's one of these guys who can look in total command, comfortable and solid if he's facing the right kind(for him) of opposition and attacking shape. On other occasions players of limited ability can make him look slow and cumbersome and leave him exposed if they can attack him with enough space. We'll just have to see how the game pans out but Darren come across as a brave lad and I imagine he'll be right up for this tonight. He won't let us down in terms of commitment anyway.

I'm not too sure where I stand on Trappers general selection policy ie loyalty to certain players clearly past it/never good enough for the sake of continuity. International football's a different animal to club football where a manager has all season, day in day out to work on and improve players and tinker with tactics/line-up/shape. In the international game you're coming together with players for a week or so a handful of times a year with massively important games always around the corner. Its prudent to become 'solid' first of all, and having a disciplined shape and fairly regular team selection is probably the quickest way to achieve that. Since day one with Trap after the Stan debacle this is how we've been and it was a welcome sight initially. We looked like a proper 'team', albeit a fairly flat and unimaginative one, but by and large the results came. But now through a variety of circumstances our settled and trusted team contains players clearly inferior to newer ones breaking through on the club scene that you would think deserve a shot on the national side. Its a dilemma but Trap's an experienced guy, we're punters sitting on the internet so I think I'll back his judgement to the end of this campaign.