Predict the Squad/ Starting Lineup for Macedonia

[Charlie Darwin]

In that scenario I still think Kelly would be CH cover and McShane would be right back cover.

[SolitudeRed]

That's way too inexperienced a back four to go with for a competitive game. Wilson has still yet to impress me, he's been better this season but last year was at McShane levels of atrociousness. We'll need some sort of experience considering we'll be without Given, O'Shea and possibly Dunne in that defence, and for me that requires asking KK for one last effort for Ireland, his voice and knowledge of how we should be shaping up could be vital even if his legs aren't quite.

To be fair to Marc Wilson he has said himself that MF is he preferred position and he was put into defence for Portsmouth during last season as they were stuck, since then I think he has mostly been playing in MF

[SwanVsDalton]

In that scenario I still think Kelly would be CH cover and McShane would be right back cover.

Really? Not sure what Trap's thoughts are, but McShane's a much better CH than RB, particularly with a good partner. He didn't have a good outing in Italy, but his better Ireland performances have been at centre half to my mind.

[geysir]

O'Dea is the CH cover. Kelly is not in the frame for CH, unless the spanish inquisition strikes.

[Charlie Darwin]

Is the Church strongly in favour of Kelly at centre half?


Really? Not sure what Trap's thoughts are, but McShane's a much better CH than RB, particularly with a good partner. He didn't have a good outing in Italy, but his better Ireland performances have been at centre half to my mind.
That's probably true but at right full he's less likely to cause damage. Considering Irish full backs don't provide much of an attacking outlet for Trapattoni, it's a less important position than centre half.

[the bear]

That's way too inexperienced a back four to go with for a competitive game. Wilson has still yet to impress me, he's been better this season but last year was at McShane levels of atrociousness. We'll need some sort of experience considering we'll be without Given, O'Shea and possibly Dunne in that defence, and for me that requires asking KK for one last effort for Ireland, his voice and knowledge of how we should be shaping up could be vital even if his legs aren't quite.

its not an ideal situation but due to injury i think it is our best available. killer doesn't merit a place in the team. quality over experience. the 3 unexperienced internationally in that back 4 all play prem every week and should be more than capable of playing macedonia. i would of had kenny in goals though

[Jicked]

its not an ideal situation but due to injury i think it is our best available. killer doesn't merit a place in the team. quality over experience. the 3 unexperienced internationally in that back 4 all play prem every week and should be more than capable of playing macedonia. i would of had kenny in goals though

Quality over experience if it was an ordinary back 4 the left back would be playing with, but for me, and I'm sure 9 out of 10 managers would do the same, you've got to have some experience in there somewhere, especially for a team like ours that relies on positional sense and working as a unit so much more than individual flair or talent. From what I've seen of Clark and Wilson both seem to be quite rash in how they defend, the type of players who if put under pressure from a guy like Pandev could really do with someone there to try to steady the ship in the way Dunne, Given or even O'Shea would. If those three were missing I'd line up: Kilbane - Clark - St Ledger - Kelly or Coleman (would be a choice for the manager seeing Coleman in training and seeing if he'd be disciplined enough to remember he isn't a winger once again. Personally I've never been impressed with Foley anytime I've seen him)

[the bear]

Quality over experience if it was an ordinary back 4 the left back would be playing with, but for me, and I'm sure 9 out of 10 managers would do the same, you've got to have some experience in there somewhere, especially for a team like ours that relies on positional sense and working as a unit so much more than individual flair or talent. From what I've seen of Clark and Wilson both seem to be quite rash in how they defend, the type of players who if put under pressure from a guy like Pandev could really do with someone there to try to steady the ship in the way Dunne, Given or even O'Shea would. If those three were missing I'd line up: Kilbane - Clark - St Ledger - Kelly or Coleman (would be a choice for the manager seeing Coleman in training and seeing if he'd be disciplined enough to remember he isn't a winger once again. Personally I've never been impressed with Foley anytime I've seen him)

get your point. don't agree in this case though. kilbane (in defence) has experience of playing left back badly. not the type of experience i want in the team. especially giving the back four positional help.

not impressed with foley? realy, i thought he looked like a very good full back every time ive seen him, reminds me of finnan

[Colbert Report]

Too bad Stephen Carr is injured, I reckon he could do a good job for us at right back if he could be persuaded...

[paul_oshea]

I'm trying to think of an (internationally) experienced defender we could call upon and who can play centre half in the absence of Dunne and O'Shea and the only one who hasn't ruled himself out from selection is... Ian Harte. Stephen Kelly maybe?

hmm yes remember the last time ian harte played CH against eastern european opposition? Header straight out to the opposition player who scored....

[Kingdom]

If there is an injury crisis, and the manager has the choice of picking a player that has been in the squad consistently over the past two campaign, liked by his peers, and is decent enough to be considered part of the long term future, or picking a player, out of the international game for at least 2 and a bit campaigns, in a lower league, in a position he never, ever excelled in, I know which player I'd be going for.

Any talk of selecting Carr or Harte for the Macedonia game, or any other qualifier is madness. Foley, Kelly, Clark, Wilson, are all fine young players. Put the faith in them now and reap the rewards in 12 months time when we're preparing for Euro 2012 with a hugely competitive squad.

[SwanVsDalton]

Well said. My fingernails will be bitten to points, but I'd be hugely excited to see how our inexperienced defenders fare.

[Stuttgart88]

-------Westwood------
Foley-Sledge-Clark-Kilbane
McGeady-Whelan-Gibson-Duff
-----Keane--Doyle-----

[AlaskaFox]

-------Westwood------
Foley-Sledge-Clark-Kilbane
McGeady-Whelan-Gibson-Duff
-----Keane--Doyle-----

Replace Foley with Kelly and I think you have it.

[Kingdom]

Killer is a definite now. I don't think Trapatoni rates Kelly (didn't he make a big boo-boo early v Georgia?), which would push me to think Foley might start - but then again, Foley has seen f-all game time for us either, so maybe he doesn't rate either!

Also, I don't believe he trusts Gibson enough. As much as I hate the thought, there is a big chance he'll go for two battlers in front of the inexperiened back 5 (incl Westwood), which makes me think Paul Green. I feel dirty.

I'll plump for*

Westwood
Foley
Kilbane
Sledge
Clark
McGeady
Whelan
Green
Duff
Doyle
Keane


*subject to change until the craziness ends.

[the doc]

Relax, Dunne will play!

[TrapAPony]

which makes me think Paul Green. I feel dirty.

You better give yourself a good washing after saying that.

[SwanVsDalton]

Yeah Kelly will get the nod I feel. He seems to be Trap's anointed number two RB, and his relative experience should stand up well.

[SwanVsDalton]

Killer is a definite now. I don't think Trapatoni rates Kelly (didn't he make a big boo-boo early v Georgia?), which would push me to think Foley might start - but then again, Foley has seen f-all game time for us either, so maybe he doesn't rate either!

Trap rates Kelly enough, he's played him plenty either from the start or off the bench since Georgia. As for Green, I think it's more likely Andrews will be back in team if the's going to go for robust presence.

[geysir]

Andrews hasn't got much playing time in months, therefore Green (bless his heart) would have more trust to partner Whelan.
Me thinks it's between Gibson/Whelan or Green/Whelan.
More probably McGeady, Green, Whelan and Duff

Nervy weekend coming up.

http://bigmamacass.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/crossed-fingers.jpg

[Kingdom]

Trap rates Kelly enough, he's played him plenty either from the start or off the bench since Georgia. As for Green, I think it's more likely Andrews will be back in team if the's going to go for robust presence.

I wouldn't be too sure of that? Certainly more than Foley, no doubt about that, but how many times has he been selected in the 20 matches in that period of time.


Andrews hasn't got much playing time in months, therefore Green (bless his heart) would have more trust to partner Whelan.
Me thinks it's between Gibson/Whelan or Green/Whelan.
More probably McGeady, Green, Whelan and Duff

Nervy weekend coming up.


That's exactly what I was basing my selection on.

[paul_oshea]

Geysir you are full of images today.

[geysir]

Isn't that an improvement on what I'm usually full of?

[SwanVsDalton]

I wouldn't be too sure of that? Certainly more than Foley, no doubt about that, but how many times has he been selected in the 20 matches in that period of time.

According to ESPN Soccernet, in 21 games (all since Georgia) he's played five full games (all friendlies), came off the bench three times (all competitive games), was an unused sub ten times and wasn't in the matchday squad three times. Foley's played 72 minutes of a friendly against Nigeria, has come off the bench two other friendlies, was an unused sub in four matches and not in the matchday squad for 14 games.

It's not loads of game time, admittedly, but Kelly's been in ahead of Foley in pretty much every occasion despite the performance against Georgia. Trap seems to trust him enough and the selection's show he's the number 2 RB. Would be a surprise if Trap didn't pick him imo.

Edit - To elaborate with a recent example, Kelly missed out on the Russia/Slovakia games with injury and Foley sat on the bench against the Slovaks (but not Russia). In the next friendly against Norway, Kelly returned and got a full 90 minutes whereas Foley came on in the 67th minute for O'Dea (Kelly reverted to CB). Foley's been in great form, Kelly hasn't been playing much at Fulham (I don't think...) but would still be unusual for Trap to switch them round.

[geysir]

My impression (mistaken or otherwise) is that Foley missed out on the chances (due to injury), where Trap would have tried him out in the friendlies.
His transition to the tried and trusted category has been somewhat retarded.

[Kingdom]

Good man SvD, can't beat stats.

[Stuttgart88]

What about the Wales game - didn't Foley come on in that? Was Kelly available?

I'm not convinced about Whelan and Gibson and hear the arguments about Green - I'm assuming Andrews is too rusty. Come back Steven Reid!!

I think we would revert to "stand off them but in a good shape" if it was Whelan and Gibson. Geysir made the good point after Slovakia that although we lost the ball more often with Green on the pitch, we also won the ball further up the pitch more often, and our best attacks came from that.

McCarthy and Fahey are also options of course.

[Noelys Guitar]

I don't see any chance of Foley getting picked at right back(would have been selected by now). Between Kelly, Wilson and Coleman. I see Dunne starting so St Ledger and Clark at left back. Whelan seems to be a shoo in. I think he will go with Fahey as his partner with McGEady and Duff both certs to start. Doyle and very tight call between Keane and Long. Keane stated earlier this week he wasn't match fit which was very honest. I have a feeling Long is going to start with Keane on the bench.

[The Fly]

At least Ciaran Clark should be fully fit and refreshed for the match against Macedonia, as he begins a two match ban this weekend after picking up 10 bookings.

[SwanVsDalton]

My impression (mistaken or otherwise) is that Foley missed out on the chances (due to injury), where Trap would have tried him out in the friendlies.
His transition to the tried and trusted category has been somewhat retarded.

Think that's probably true, although Foley was an unused sub against Brazil, Algeria and Argentina last year (Kelly played 90 mins in the former two games).


What about the Wales game - didn't Foley come on in that? Was Kelly available?

Kelly was on the bench, didn't get any game time. Foley wasn't in the squad, think he was injured or just back from injury though someone else can probably clarify.

[geysir]

Seeing as we dallying with stats, afair while Green was on the pitch against Slovakia we (he) twice gave the ball away at CM. Twice is enough to warrant a withering Roy Keane stare but by our present relative standards it's not too bad.
For Green to function, someone has to be available within a radius of 5m to receive the ball. Against Russia he was treated like a leper by Whelan but it was better against Slovakia.

[AlaskaFox]

At least Ciaran Clark should be fully fit and refreshed for the match against Macedonia, as he begins a two match ban this weekend after picking up 10 bookings.

If there's one thing you can depend on, it's Clark getting booked.

[SkStu]

Seeing as we dallying with stats, afair while Green was on the pitch against Slovakia we (he) twice gave the ball away at CM. Twice is enough to warrant a withering Roy Keane stare but by our present relative standards it's not too bad..

fair point but he only had 3 successful attempts at harrying against Slovakia iirc. Our mids need to be making at least 7 successful attempts at harrying per game. Each.

[Charlie Darwin]

Lies. Green was substituted after 41 minutes which suggests he was on target to hit his harrying quota on the nose. I've had enough of your anti-Green propaganda.

[geysir]

fair point but he only had 3 successful attempts at harrying against Slovakia iirc. Our mids need to be making at least 7 successful attempts at harrying per game. Each.

I don't understand this silly talk. What moron uses language like that? You can chose to engage in sensible discussion where facts and stats are given due respect or you can sit at back of the class, making fárt noises, for your own peculiar amusement.
:D

[The Fly]

I've had enough of your anti-Green propaganda.

The Green lobby isn't that popular in Canada, or so I hear.

[paul_oshea]

pitch looks in a bad way pools of water in some places ye'd think they would have some drainage system in place or at least a working one.

[Charlie Darwin]

Well there's only so much rain a pitch can absorb before it ends up waterlogged, even if you have the best drains in the world. It was absolutely torrential out there.

[paul_oshea]

ok fair enough i listened on bbc and they didn't make it out to be a continuous heavy downpour or mention the conditions till towards the end.

[Stuttgart88]

Duff subbed on 75 mins tonight. Please tell me it was tactical.

[Noelys Guitar]

Duff subbed on 75 mins tonight. Please tell me it was tactical.

To be honest Duff was having an average game so I believe it was tactical. Was playing on the right for most of the game and it just didn't happen today for him or Fulham. Great goal from Coleman and he looked right back to his best. Watching a delayed playing of the Stoke game and hope Wilson starts at right full. No mistakes from a player who looks right at home in the Premiership.

[geysir]

No news on the injury front is good news.
Only McGeady left, he's playing tomorrow.

[tetsujin1979]

No news on the injury front is good news.
Only McGeady left, he's playing tomorrow.
isn't he still suspended after the red card in November?

[geysir]

If he is suspended it's a pity because he's not fully fit yet.

[paul_oshea]

lads what time is kick off evening is it?b

[EastTerracer]

lads what time is kick off evening is it?b

7.45 kick-off according to the FAI site.

[paul_oshea]

ok that's good pints and pool and some heavy metal to start the day.

[SkStu]

just caught the second half of the Everton-Fulham game. I have to say Duff impressed for the time i saw him. Was heavily involved in Dempseys goal with that cross that Zamora knocked down. Was playing a central/roaming role and impressed me. Me and Noely will have to avoid judging the same games!!

[Littlest Hobo]

westwood

coleman
st ledger
clarke
foley

mcgeady
whelan
gibson
duff

keane
doyle

[Noelys Guitar]

Very good article here in the Sunday Indo today with direct quotes from Trap. Seems Kilbane will start ahead of Clark (which suggests to me Dunne will start). Long ahead of Keane. Andrews out injured. The team is likely to be
Westwood
Kelly, Dunne St Ledger, Kilbane
McGeady Whelan, Green, Duff
Doyle Long

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/glut-of-nonrunners-makes-it-difficult-to-avoid-a-gamble-2586331.html