Predict the Squad/ Starting Lineup for Macedonia

[SwanVsDalton]

Horses for courses though - this is a big pressure game, easily the biggest of Clark's career to date. That'll soon superseded during Villa's relegation scrap though...

I'd be delighted to see Clark play, but I have no problem with choosing Kilbane. I don't think it's game-breaker, and Clark/Cunningham will be getting plenty of chances to test themselves very soon (from June most likely).

I'll disavow this view if he has a stinker mind...

[DannyInvincible]

As much respect as I have for Kilbane, it's difficult to ignore the fact that he was at fault for many of the goals we conceded during the last campaign, and it's not as if he's getting any better. I understand he was our only realistic option at the time but now we have Clark as an alternative who is performing regularly in the Premier League and is perfectly capable of playing at left-back being overlooked in favour of a League One player on the way out.

[SwanVsDalton]

Looking at this as one-off, with the circumstances of injuries, I can see the benefits he can bring to the team (as well as his faults). It's a cautious move but I can see the logic - just this once. Two half-fit centre halves (who might not even make it) and a RB with only one full appearance in the side just swings it for me. Continuity has it's pluses and minuses - with change elsewhere, I can see why it's worth retaining Killer.

And I really can't see this game being won and lost by our LB. Much like how multiple players were to blame for the Russia goals (and others Kilbane's picked up the tab for) multiple performances will be the difference between us winning and losing. That mooted side has more than enough to win the game*. As would one with Clark, in fairness, which is why I'm merely stressing that I understand the logic. I don't really mind who plays at LB.

*Cue Kilbane blasting the winner past a startled Westwood...

[Charlie Darwin]

Keith O'Neill and Brian Kerr are on iTalkSport on Setanta right now talking about Macedonia games of old. Some great anecdotes from Keith.

[EastTerracer]

O'Dea in the centre over Clark? Can't fathom that. Surely it would makes sense to go with Dunne and Clark considering they're team-mates and everything.


Exactly. Absolutely mind boggling.

We might all be getting ahead of ourselves here (and I take responsibility for posting the tweet in the first place). In the training match this morning Trap may have wanted to look at Clark at LB on the possibles team to see a direct comparison with Kilbane at LB on the probables. If Kilbane is to start then he is probably still considering Clark at CB in Sledge's absence.

We probably won't know until Saturday evening as Trap will give St.Ledger as much time as he needs to recover.

[paul_oshea]

Looking at this as one-off, with the circumstances of injuries, I can see the benefits he can bring to the team (as well as his faults). It's a cautious move but I can see the logic - just this once. Two half-fit centre halves (who might not even make it) and a RB with only one full appearance in the side just swings it for me. Continuity has it's pluses and minuses - with change elsewhere, I can see why it's worth retaining Killer.

And I really can't see this game being won and lost by our LB. Much like how multiple players were to blame for the Russia goals (and others Kilbane's picked up the tab for) multiple performances will be the difference between us winning and losing. That mooted side has more than enough to win the game*. As would one with Clark, in fairness, which is why I'm merely stressing that I understand the logic. I don't really mind who plays at LB.

*Cue Kilbane blasting the winner past a startled Westwood...

You can be unlucky once, or possibly even twice but in the last couple of years he has been unlucky at least 4 times, thats not unlucky, thats a mistake or mistakes.

[paul_oshea]

What people are saying is we were over-awed on the day, sleepy and just general rubbish, yet all this speaks of an inexperienced team. We are a very experienced team in the back or at least that day against Russia we were. Now lets look at this in the context of playing Kilbane because of his experience, did it make a difference that day? No, it didn't, but the other way to look at this is if you are that experienced or that good you don't make these mistakes, you don't let the occasion get the better of you and you are mentally strong enough and assured not to let this happen. It did we were torn apart and my point is nothing to do with experience, its that with or without it we weren't good enough and kilbane was very weak in this game as well along with the likes of green and a few others who just had off games, dunne/whelan(worse than normal) and oshea too. But generally they are good, kilbane hasn't been for a long time now. That over experience for me, gives Clark the nod here.

We are at home against a team ranked 83rd in the world. Its the ideal time to bed him into a competitive game. Andorra he learns nothing, slovakia/russia a gamble, macedonia at home is the ideal time.

[mark12345]

"Andorra he learns nothing, slovakia/russia a gamble, macedonia at home is the ideal time."

Agree 100 per cent Paul. Clark is younger, better in the tackle and can hold the ball under pressure. He's not bad at set pieces at both ends of the pitch also. So give the lad is chance.

[mark12345]

"but he's been fairly solid in most games." No he hasn't. He's an absolute nightmare when the opposition come forward. He tucks in to the edge of the area, if not even further, and allows the winger an acre of space. He has been punished a few times, but should have been punished a lot more if forwards had taken their chances. Kevin Kilbane's best days in a green shirt were in 2000/1.

[Junior]

Generally, in the interests of the team overall, you phase players in. Why would there be any need to phase a player out other than to give him what you might consider a respectful and dignified bow out? A friendly game would be ideal for that; not a qualifier.

Fair comment and as most posts on this issue ( a few exceptions) seem to suggest it's a very marginal decision. For me it's not just about the LB position though, it's about a rookie keeper and right back (for Ireland) and two half fit CBs.

If OShea, Dunne and Sledge were all 100% then I'd be a lot more comfortable with sticking Clark in. In the interests of the team on Saturday then I don't quite think it's right to 'phase' Clark in just yet but if he is then I'm sure he'd acquit himself well.

[SwanVsDalton]

But generally they are good, kilbane hasn't been for a long time now. That over experience for me, gives Clark the nod here.

We are at home against a team ranked 83rd in the world. Its the ideal time to bed him into a competitive game. Andorra he learns nothing, slovakia/russia a gamble, macedonia at home is the ideal time.

Kilbane had decent games against Slovakia, Andorra and Armenia by my recollection. By no means brilliant, but solid - perhaps even 'good' at times. Like I said everyone knows his limitations...

Anyway Macedonia at home usually, sure. Macedonia at home with a decimated back five, not so sure. In the current circumstances with the defence, this is not an ideal time to play the biggest game of your career to date. I'm certain he'd acquit himself well, but it's still a tight call.

[geysir]

From now to Sat eve,
it's a process where 100% confidence levels gradually wither down to the levels of nervous wreckage just before kick off time.

[Noelys Guitar]

From now to Sat eve,
it's a process where 100% confidence levels gradually wither down to the levels of nervous wreckage just before kick off time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7nMY_zBvVY

[paul_oshea]

From now to Sat eve,
it's a process where 100% confidence levels gradually wither down to the levels of nervous wreckage just before kick off time.

And Noelys paranoia goes into over drive.

I'm not nervous actually, usually i would be, and have that nervous anticipation, maybe its because I'm just generally looking forward to a good weekend in dublin with mates, but im not that nervous. Poor tets though, his nerves aren't even "setting" in, they are fully camped up and "settling" in his stomach as we speak!

[geysir]

It's different if you can make it to go a game. Watching it on the box (flat screen these days) is much harder.

[paul_oshea]

watch it in 3d.

No its like listening on teh radio compared to watching on TV, everything is exaggerated exponentially, it might be a shot from 30 yards out that goes 10 yards wide but on the radio it sounds like a goal, TV is the same in terms of attacking movement a counter attack or any quick moving piece of play on Tele seems like a definite goal is about to be scored, whereas when you see it live its nothing of the sort!

[SwanVsDalton]

Re the Kilbane vs Clark debate, those who were of the Clark school might be be interested to know Nigel Worthington has similar views judging by his team selection for tonight's game in Serbia. Putting faith in the yoof (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9431734.stm). Seems to be as much with NI's poor showing against Scotland though, a bit knee-jerk.

[Junior]

Keith O'Neill and Brian Kerr are on iTalkSport on Setanta right now talking about Macedonia games of old. Some great anecdotes from Keith.

A few memories here from Mcloughlin and Kinsella from 1997 and 1999 games (First 10 minutes)

Alan McLoughlin & Mark Kinsella RTE Interview (http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2011/pc/pod-v-sportatseven24m42s240311-pid0-1482864.mp3)

[Tipp Townie]

I'll go with the same team I (cough) really always thought would start.
Westwood
Foley Dunne St Ledger Clark
McGeady Whelan Gibson Duff
Keane Doyle
I'd say Trap has not decided yet, 50/50 between Gibson/Green and Kilbane/Clark

I'm desperately trying to catch up on 20-odd pages of this. Can i shortcut and just recap on what people generally think Trap will go with? Sounds like now its Geysir's team above, with Gibson expected to start and KK at LB?

[Tipp Townie]

Sorry - with O'Dea in for Sledge.

[geysir]

News report/guesses that the team will be announced at 2pm.

[paul_oshea]

So its not like geysirs team then Tipp Townie?! :p

[Tipp Townie]

Haha, near enough!

[AlaskaFox]

http://www.gifsoup.com/view2/2214279/jason-mcateer-has-a-macedonia-o.gif

[Wolfie]

It's different if you can make it to go a game. Watching it on the box (flat screen these days) is much harder.

Yeah - this will be the first home game that I can't attend for a long time and its completely fecked up the build up for me.

The mere mention of Macedonia re-opens the mental scars of the past anyway. I'm still not over the trauma of the last 12 seconds equaliser.

Pre Match Tension Status: DEF CON 2.

[Sullivinho]

http://www.gifsoup.com/view2/2214279/jason-mcateer-has-a-macedonia-o.gif

Good God that was ugly..

But enough about them shirts.

[geysir]

Harsh red card, he was going for and got the ball :D

I was making a list in my head the other night of the worst sickener goals scored against us over the last 30 years.

Top 5 quality sickeners, in no order

Belgium '81
Gelsenkirchen '88
Macedonia '99
Mendieta's penalty 2002
France 2009

Honourable sick memories

Oslo '84
Schillaci '90
Bonner v Holland '94
Henry 2005

[Wolfie]

Harsh red card, he was going for and got the ball :D

I was making a list in my head the other night of the worst sickener goals scored against us over the last 30 years.

Top 5 quality sickeners, in no order

Belgium '81
Gelsenkirchen '88
Macedonia '99
Mendieta's penalty 2002
France 2009

Honourable sick memories

Oslo '84
Schillaci '90
Bonner v Holland '94
Henry 2005

A couple of others that spring to mind under the "honourables" are Bulgaria, Sofia '87 and Israel's last minute equaliser in Tel Aviv in (03? / 05??)

[geysir]

I suppose they fall under my repressed memory sickeners. I need more therapy.

[Wolfie]

I suppose they fall under my repressed memory sickeners. I need more therapy.

Another one. Croatia, '99?? - 4 minutes (count them) added time.

Played deep for a draw. They said it was madness. They were right.

[jbyrne]

team confirmed:
westwood
foley
dunne
o'dea
kilbane
duff
gibson
whelan
mcgeady
keane
doyle

[Wolfie]

team confirmed:
westwood
foley
dunne
o'dea
kilbane
duff
gibson
whelan
mcgeady
keane
doyle

Clarke for O'Dea and I'd be happy enough.

[paul_oshea]

Harsh red card, he was going for and got the ball :D

I was making a list in my head the other night of the worst sickener goals scored against us over the last 30 years.

Top 5 quality sickeners, in no order

Belgium '81
Gelsenkirchen '88
Macedonia '99
Mendieta's penalty 2002
France 2009

Honourable sick memories

Oslo '84
Schillaci '90
Bonner v Holland '94
Henry 2005

I don't remember oslo, but why henrys free kick as being a sick one? Cos we were still in with a chance of qualification or because it ruined our 10 year competitive avoiding defeat streak(unbeaten)?

[ChrisRed]

Would have been a perfect opportunity to play Clarke, think Kilbane got then nod due to his height at set pieces and lack of it further up the field.

[paul_oshea]

team confirmed:
westwood
foley
dunne
o'dea
kilbane
duff
gibson
whelan
mcgeady
keane
doyle

Where are the Trapologists now to defend the CB pairing? Seriouslly? There are no excuses, no reasons.

[SwanVsDalton]

Where are the Trapologists now to defend the CB pairing? Seriouslly? There are no excuses, no reasons.

Is that the study of Trapattoni? MSc in Trapology.

I'm not going to defend it. Think it's bad decision. We should still win the game though.

[paul_oshea]

And if we do then of course everyone forgets about it. Well not me and Noely or probably john giles :D

[Junior]

It is strange. As someone posted earlier, it can only be Trap having more familiarity with O'Dea, he's been around the squads for a lot longer and perhaps has shown some decent stuff this week in training.

[Tipp Townie]

http://www.gifsoup.com/view2/2214279/jason-mcateer-has-a-macedonia-o.gif

Who's our no.14 there? Looks like David Kelly but didnt think he was still playing then?

[Noelys Guitar]

Crosby is probably right in that Trapatonni has seen something in training or more likely O'Dea has been around the squad longer. Its a Miller/McShane type decision and they rarely if ever work out. O'Dea is not getting his game for Ipswich. Bizarre decision.

[SwanVsDalton]

And if we do then of course everyone forgets about it. Well not me and Noely or probably john giles :D

Well when you're wrong 85% of the time, you're right 15% of the time...

http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/img/2010_03_31/statler_waldorf.jpg

[SwanVsDalton]

Who's our no.14 there? Looks like David Kelly but didnt think he was still playing then?

Definitely Kelly. Was having a bit of a renaissance at Tranmere at the time as I remember...

[Yard of Pace]

Who's our no.14 there? Looks like David Kelly but didnt think he was still playing then?

It was Kelly. We finished up that game with Kelly and Jon Goodman up front, iirc!!

[paul_oshea]

Well when you're wrong 85% of the time, you're right 15% of the time...

http://www.untoldentertainment.com/blog/img/2010_03_31/statler_waldorf.jpg

IS that noely on the left just before a game?

[Stuttgart88]

It's a strange selection alright but still relatively marginal. O'Dea has played against good quality non-UK players much more than Clark, for example. It's not a hanging offence. I'd have gone with KK at LB myself and Clark at CB. I hate the nonsense of "if we win, they'll all forget". If O'Dea plays well it'll have been the right decision, if he plays badly it'll have been the wrong decision. Win, draw or lose.

[Noelys Guitar]

IS that noely on the left just before a game?

I was third guy and decided to jump after seeing the team sheet.

[Tipp Townie]

It was Kelly. We finished up that game with Kelly and Jon Goodman up front, iirc!!

Goodman!! Ah, memories.

[paul_oshea]

It is strange. As someone posted earlier, it can only be Trap having more familiarity with O'Dea, he's been around the squads for a lot longer and perhaps has shown some decent stuff this week in training.

I suppose the example of kelly and foley is not the exact one here, because they were both around the squad for a long time, but Kelly has played very little of late whereas foley is always playing. The example of Ledger coming in after 1 game against Nigeria also doesn't hold true that Trap won't do it if he has to. The only closest thing is the fact that O'dea hasn't played at all he cant get his game for ipswich, kelly cant get his game for fulham, he goes with foley cos he trusts both of them as they have been around long enough but he doesn't trust Clark.

I really think it must just come down to trust.

[paul_oshea]

It's a strange selection alright but still relatively marginal. O'Dea has played against good quality non-UK players much more than Clark, for example. It's not a hanging offence. I'd have gone with KK at LB myself and Clark at CB. I hate the nonsense of "if we win, they'll all forget". If O'Dea plays well it'll have been the right decision, if he plays badly it'll have been the wrong decision. Win, draw or lose.

Yes stutts but these things are often forgottten, and sadly a loss is whats required to force the managers hand - a lot of the time.

[Noelys Guitar]

It's a strange selection alright but still relatively marginal. O'Dea has played against good quality non-UK players much more than Clark, for example. It's not a hanging offence. I'd have gone with KK at LB myself and Clark at CB. I hate the nonsense of "if we win, they'll all forget". If O'Dea plays well it'll have been the right decision, if he plays badly it'll have been the wrong decision. Win, draw or lose.

Surely Dunne and other senior players must be wondering how a player who can't get his game at Ipswich is being selected ahead of a player who plays alongside Dunne at Aston Villa.