Election 2011 - General

[Mr A]

Mammy O Rourke consistently seems to forget that she's not an outsider, she's part of this government. If she wanted to bring it all down she could do so.

[Dodge]

Mammy O Rourke consistently seems to forget that she's not an outsider, she's part of this government. If she wanted to bring it all down she could do so.

Quite a few of them trying to position themselves as outsiders alright. The ones who aren't 'retiring' that is.

[tetsujin1979]

didn't know where else to post this, Fine Gael's website has been hacked: http://finegael2011.com/

If it's resolved by the time you read this, here's what they replaced it with: http://twitpic.com/3okh03
just on this, rte are reporting that up to 4,000 registered users of the fine gael website may have had their details compromised: http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0110/finegael.html

[Dodge]

Apparently now its 2,000 users that posted 4,000 comments

[tetsujin1979]

did some searching, Kevin Doyle is the journalist referred to in the rte article: http://twitter.com/#!/KevDoyle_Herald (http://twitter.com/#%21/KevDoyle_Herald)
Here's the original tweet: http://twitter.com/#!/KevDoyle_Herald/status/24395021432131584 (http://twitter.com/#%21/KevDoyle_Herald/status/24395021432131584)

Have confirmed - Data Protection Com has been informed that the details of nearly 4,000 people has been stolen by hackers on FG website.and the reduction: http://twitter.com/#!/KevDoyle_Herald/status/24452376790306816 (http://twitter.com/#%21/KevDoyle_Herald/status/24452376790306816)

Fine Gael have analysed the database I sent them and say that 2,000 individuals have been affected. The smaller number due to repeat posters

[BonnieShels]

Thankfully that's over and the real issue of the day can be debated... so Brian, what exactly did you and Seanie talk about if not Anglo?

[BonnieShels]

Cowen issues statement:

Statement by the Taoiseach Mr. Brian Cowen T.D. in relation to Sean

Fitzpatrick Book


I want to take this opportunity to utterly refute any suggestions of

impropriety on my part arising out of the recent publication of a book

about Sean Fitzpatrick.


As I confirmed this weekend, I did attend a golf outing in July 2008

organised by a friend Fintan Drury which Mr. Fitzpatrick also attended.


I am quite clear that no discussions regarding Anglo Irish Bank took place.


It was a social outing in full public view. There was nothing untoward, no

hidden or secret agenda and no concessions, favours or interventions

requested or granted. Certain people are drawing inferences for political

and other motives, they are malicious, unfounded and have no basis in fact.


The second issue being discussed is a phone call I took from Mr.

Fitzpatrick while in Asia during the St Patrick’s Day period of 2008 when I

was Minister for Finance. This phone call related to concerns Mr.

Fitzpatrick had about the market situation in relation to the bank’s

shares.


As I confirmed in the Dáil as far back as February 2009, as Minister for

Finance, I had been informed by the Governor of the Central Bank in early

March 2008, that a situation was developing in regard to the contracts for

difference issue in Anglo Irish Bank. The exact scale and detail of the

difficulty was not known at that point.


Prior to talking to Mr. Fitzpatrick, I spoke with the Governor. Having

listened to Mr. Fitzpatrick I told him I would refer the issue to the

Governor of the Central Bank. The Central Bank and the Regulator

subsequently followed up on the issue at a meeting with Anglo Irish Bank

which I understand was held in the Central Bank Headquarters on Good Friday

the 21st March 2008.


The continuing attempt to suggest that the Government’s approach to the

affairs of Anglo Irish Bank was influenced by political or any

inappropriate considerations is utterly without foundation. The facts in

this instance demonstrate that as do the findings of the independent review

carried out by Professor Honohan which similarly found that “there is no

evidence or hint of corrupt regulatory forbearance.”

[paudie]

So cowen seems to be admitting he took no interest in the Anglo shares/Quinn issue between March and July 2008. A pretty bad error of omission to say the least.

[BonnieShels]

He and FF are hoping we don't notice that.

[Kingdom]

I hope I'm not making a goon of myself, but listening to Mr Cowen's comments, what I'm hearing is that he was told of Quinn's difficulties, which was tied to Anglo and the effect that would have on Anglo, and that he passed these comments onto the Governor of the Central Bank and then choose not to follow them up until it was too late.

is that correct?

[BonnieShels]

I hope I'm not making a goon of myself, but listening to Mr Cowen's comments, what I'm hearing is that he was told of Quinn's difficulties, which was tied to Anglo and the effect that would have on Anglo, and that he passed these comments onto the Governor of the Central Bank and then choose not to follow them up until it was too late.

is that correct?

That's one of the spins you can put on it. Essentially he's damned if he did and he's damned if he didn't. If he had just came out and said what what went on this wouldn't be the sh1tstorm that it has turned out to be. Can't say that I am at all unhappy. I prefer the process of "deaths frome a thousand cuts" meself.

Lenihan today said he is unhappy with the situation. Aren't we all.

[culloty82]

John O'Donoghue looks to be toast after his running mate in the last two elections, Tom Fleming, has decided to run as an independent. Could Kerry become the first county where both constituencies would be FF-free zones?

[bluemovie]

I hope I'm not making a goon of myself, but listening to Mr Cowen's comments, what I'm hearing is that he was told of Quinn's difficulties, which was tied to Anglo and the effect that would have on Anglo, and that he passed these comments onto the Governor of the Central Bank and then choose not to follow them up until it was too late.

is that correct?

Yes. Cowen is pleading of total incompetence rather than dishonesty/bias/collusion.

[BonnieShels]

But he's selling it as normal behaviour. God, if these people had brains and could lie properly...

[jinxy lilywhite]

Cowens performance in the Dail today as of nothing more than when you corner a rat. He only has one way to go and the one way he knows which is too attack.
I don't know if the govt will fall this week. I think the greens just don't have the balls to say enough is enough.

[BonnieShels]

Lenny and Mickey Martin to table a vote of no confidence at a parliamentary party meeting today. Was looking forward to Cowen fighting the GE.

[Mr A]

Seems very unclear what, if anything, is going on. Apparently a no confidence motion within FF requires 5 days notice. To get involved in something so drawn out at this stage would be even more suicidal than usual for FF.

[Mr A]

FF parliamentary party meeting put back 2 hours to 3pm.

It does seem that something is under way.....

Edit: RTE on this now: http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0113/politics.html

Another Edit: The IT have it too: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0113/breaking4.html

[Mr A]

Speculation mounting that Cowen has resigned. Unclear whether just as leader of FF or as Taoiseach as well.

All very exciting :)

[culloty82]

Politics.ie and RTE reporting that Lenihan is returning directly from Belfast for the meeting - certainly looks like the end. Also claims that Cowen will resign and call a snap election, but all will become clearer at 3 p.m.

[Mr A]

Yeah, rumours of an election in a week!

[BonnieShels]

Just heard that too. Man this is great craic altogether.

[Mr A]

I don't need this right now. Snowed under at work and can get nothing done because this is riveting!

[Dodge]

have FF selected their candidates? Won't be an election if not

[Eminence Grise]

Just heard a woman on Joe Duffy likening the media witch hunt of our poor, friendless Taoiseach to a ... crucifixion.

Am I a bad person because my first thought was “I’m Brian and so is my wife?”

Interesting, isn’t it, though, that one person named in all of this has managed to keep out of the limelight? Step forward Mr Fintan Drury, founder of Drury Communications (which he’d sold in an MBO before all this, but which still handles a lot of governmental PR), one-time government appointee as Chair of the RTE Authority, Anglo-Irish director and all round good egg. If he wasn’t platinum coated, you’d call him a diamond geezer...

[dahamsta]

have FF selected their candidates? Won't be an election if not

They've selected a lot of them, but I doubt all.

[John83]

Just heard a woman on Joe Duffy likening the media witch hunt of our poor, friendless Taoiseach to a ... crucifixion.
Are these people actors Joe pays to keep certain debates lively? Or do we really need a programme of ethnic clensing to divest us of the kinds of people who will continue to blindly support FF even now?

[Eminence Grise]

Are these people actors Joe pays to keep certain debates lively?

I wonder sometimes... One oul fella (an FFer) started his "considered" contribution by stating I didn't call you Joe, you called me. You could sense Joe shooting daggers at some poor sap of a researcher.

Whatever about FF's tardiness and cackhandedness in handling the economic crisis, you can be sure that they'll move heaven and earth to get sons and daughters and various other idiot offspring nominated in time for a campaign.

[dahamsta]

do we really need a programme of ethnic clensing to divest us of the kinds of people who will continue to blindly support FF even now?

It wouldn't be ethnic cleansing, it'd be stupidity cleansing, and unfortunately we don't have a viable benchmark to implement it. You can't use intelligence, because there are actually some quite intelligent people that support FF, for reasons that I don't fully - or even partially - understand. Even if you could measure cleverness, you'd still end up including people like Bertie, who's both moronic and smart at the same time.

And of course if you tell people you're going kill them because they support fianna fail, you'll get them pretending to support another party on the one hand, and then you'll get all those fancy-shmancy liberals on other calling you fascist and comparing you to nazis and all sorts of other silliness.

This is what scientists should be working on. Isolating Fianna Fail supporters for a cull.

[John83]

This is what scientists should be working on. Isolating Fianna Fail supporters for a cull.
I never had Battlestar Galactica figured for a particularly subtle use of allegory, but I'm pretty sure that's what this scene was about,
lBmUQ_zCVIg

[osarusan]

"Kill them all, and Dev will know his own."

[Mr A]

Newstalk report:


Senior Gov Sources - Taoiseach is not resigning, gone into PP meeting to fight

BreaingNews.ie: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/cowen-holding-firm-489200.html

[Mr A]

It seems like it's all fizzling out.. ah well, it passed the day sure.

[dahamsta]

I reckon they have these little faux putsches on purpose every now and then to convince the plebectorate that everything's a-ok in the party, and we know exactly what we're doing and really do have the eensiest of clues about what's going on in Ireland and the world, honest.

[John83]

I reckon they have these little faux putsches on purpose every now and then to convince the plebectorate that everything's a-ok in the party, and we know exactly what we're doing and really do have the eensiest of clues about what's going on in Ireland and the world, honest.
Occam's Razor suggests that they're running around like headless chickens because...

[BonnieShels]

Lord that was some day altogether. I'm exhausted. I can't wait for Vin B tonight.
Some stuff apparently in the papers on Sunday. Could be juicy... may be not.

[dahamsta]

I haven't gotten ^that^ excited about Irish politics since...

...yeah, I've never been that excited about Irish politics. I don't think I ever will, unless they actually start, you know, showing up for work.

[mypost]

Speculation mounting that Cowen has resigned. Unclear whether just as leader of FF or as Taoiseach as well.

All very exciting :)

If he resigns, he resigns as both.

Still think he'll lead them into defeat in March. He was Bertie's hand-picked successor, none of the others put their name forward. They should put up with their choice until the election, as they have zero hope of winning it anyway.

[dahamsta]

If he resigns, he resigns as both.

As far as I'm aware, he can do none, either, or both.

[Dodge]

As far as I'm aware, he can do none, either, or both.

exactly that. Up to FF parliamentary party to elect their leader. Up to the Dail to elects its Taoiseach.

[osarusan]

When I read mypost's post, I didn't think he was stating some kind of Dail or party rule, rather that Cowen couldn't realistically expect to resign from one position but be able to stay in the other.

[Dodge]

When I read mypost's post, I didn't think he was stating some kind of Dail or party rule, rather that Cowen couldn't realistically expect to resign from one position but be able to stay in the other.

Fair enough, but thats what would've happened. They've wouldn't have made martin Taopiseach for a month or so before a general elecetion. Cowan would've kept the job

[mypost]

If Cowen resigns, he will have to resign from both at the same time, as his predecessors did. The leader of the largest party in government, is automatically Taoiseach, even in an acting capacity. The Dail vote rubber stamping his appointment is a formality.

[BonnieShels]

This isoving so fast it would make your head spin. David Drumm has surfaced and is spouting that Cowen talked to the NTMA. That's in the mail.

The Irish Times I think has the more explosive story, The night before the guarantee was agreed FitzPatrick and Drumm lobbied Gray to be included in the guarantee. In other words 1. the guarantee was planned and not an overnight breaking issue that it was sold as, remember, Gormley didn't attend as it was so last minute and quickly unfolding, :rolleyes: and 2. Anglo was known to be toxic and the DoF originally left them out only for someone to insist on their inclusion.
This is a nuclear story. Expect some fans covered In excrement from 7am on Morning Ireland.

Time for bed.

[Lim till i die]

The mornings Oirish Daily Mail has finished him once and for all.

This whole thing be very durty.

[Dodge]

If Cowen resigns, he will have to resign from both at the same time, as his predecessors did. The leader of the largest party in government, is automatically Taoiseach, even in an acting capacity.


There's nothing automatic about it. Neither of his predecessors resigned 6 weeks from an election.

[total hoofball]

This isoving so fast it would make your head spin. David Drumm has surfaced and is spouting that Cowen talked to the NTMA. That's in the mail.

The Irish Times I think has the more explosive story, The night before the guarantee was agreed FitzPatrick and Drumm lobbied Gray to be included in the guarantee. In other words 1. the guarantee was planned and not an overnight breaking issue that it was sold as, remember, Gormley didn't attend as it was so last minute and quickly unfolding, :rolleyes: and 2. Anglo was known to be toxic and the DoF originally left them out only for someone to insist on their inclusion.
This is a nuclear story. Expect some fans covered In excrement from 7am on Morning Ireland.


Nuclear story alright, it will end up nuking Cowen, Lenihan, Fianna Fáil and the Irish State

After 2 and a half years of pay-offs, mouth shutting, paper shredding, charades, memory losses, spinning, spoofing, optics and whitewashing the disturbing reality of what has REALLY gone on in the months leading up to/and on 29 September 2008 is on the way to being devastatingly exposed.

[dahamsta]

If Cowen resigns, he will have to resign from both at the same time

No, he won't.

You really need to learn how to state facts and opinions in the correct way. If you did, people might give more credence to your comments.

[Dodge]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0114/1224287488231.html

Nice summary of Cowen's actions during the summer of 2008

[mypost]

Lynch resigned from both posts when he stood down, as did Haughey, Reynolds, and Ahern. They are the facts. Cowen will have to do likewise if he does the same.