Election 2011 - General

[BonnieShels]

Yep.

Just up now...


Anglo chief: Opposition must pass budget
The Chairman of Anglo Irish Bank stated today that opposition parties have no option but to pass the budget.

Alan Dukes has said the need to get the deficit down by 2014 can only be done in so many ways, with the budget being an important component of that plan.

Mr Dukes also believes the Opposition will have to agree to the economic plan in order to stabilise the country's finances.

Speaking to Bloomberg, Mr. Dukes said any changes made would have to be compensated elsewhere.

"I don't think they (Opposition) have any option, but to agree to the budgetary plan and to the four-year plan," he said.

"If indeed, they find themselves in Government in the early part of next year which seems likely…they could pick holes in some of the details of those two sets of measures, but it is clear that if they want to make any changes then they would have to compensate for any changes they make by corresponding adjustments elsewhere."

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/anglo-chief-opposition-must-pass-budget-483279.html#ixzz16L6Y6RSw

Never liked the man and now I have to say I hate the man.

[dahamsta]

Anyone in Anglo that opens their mouth at this stage needs their head seeing too. He'll have his house burned down if he's not careful. (I don't mean that as a threat or a suggestion, but a reality.)

[John83]

Anyone in Anglo that opens their mouth at this stage needs their head seeing too. He'll have his house burned down if he's not careful. (I don't mean that as a threat or a suggestion, but a reality.)
I guess you missed his name - this is Dukes, the former FG minister and party leader who was placed in Anglo by the government to handle the mess; he didn't make it. Not that that'd stop some cretins from setting fire to his home, but he has as much right to comment as anyone, and I presume his opinion still carries at least a little weight in FG.

[BonnieShels]

I guess you missed his name - this is Dukes, the former FG minister and party leader who was placed in Anglo by the government to handle the mess; he didn't make it. Not that that'd stop some cretins from setting fire to his home, but he has as much right to comment as anyone, and I presume his opinion still carries at least a little weight in FG.

I don't think he did.
Everything he's said and done since being put in this position has been just going along with the FF line. He couldn't give a monkey's at this stage just once his job is secure.

[John83]

I'm taking it from the "Anyone at Anglo..." bit BonnieShels. I'm sure if Adam meant to criticise him for his statements over the past year or two, he'd have done so (and might yet).

[BonnieShels]

Ack aye. Just think though that he said it sweepingly. I'm sure he'll let us know either way.

[bennocelt]

I guess you missed his name - this is Dukes, the former FG minister and party leader who was placed in Anglo by the government to handle the mess; he didn't make it. Not that that'd stop some cretins from setting fire to his home, but he has as much right to comment as anyone, and I presume his opinion still carries at least a little weight in FG.

Have you not followed his statements from the last two years!!! Pretty much along the lines of "Anglo is fine, dont worry, blah blah blah". He is a creep, and wasnt much good during the 80's either.

[Macy]

I guess you missed his name - this is Dukes, the former FG minister and party leader who was placed in Anglo by the government to handle the mess; he didn't make it.
He's been there 2 years as a "public interest" nominee? How's that worked out for the public? He's just towed the Government line at every opportunity...


Funny you should say that. I was thinking that about O'Rourke today however I do also think that Gilmore was brutal and yet again showed what a sham, he is.
Not sure I totally agree - he wasn't really showed up imo as he said the same bloody thing. Definitely not one of his best performances though, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was taken aback by O'Rourkes approach tbh. Incidentally, next item O'Rourke started claiming he couldn't make editorial comment, he had to remain independent or something like that!


Trying to follow anything on P.ie is insane. the amount of trolling is very annoying too.
It's good for breaking news, but after page one of a thread you know it's been hijacked by the usual suspects. It's really been a victim of it's own success.

[BonnieShels]

I think this performance was somewhere between our two opinions.
I think the phrase Sean used was Statute barred under the broadcasting act.

[dahamsta]

I know who Dukes is, I maintain that anyone working in Anglo, no matter what their position, is mad to be making comments like this. There's incredible anger out there, and it'll only take a very small push to direct it with incredible force.

Macy, it's "toe the line", as in put your toe up against it and don't step over.

[Dodge]

its tow the line when you're being dragged to hell by the FF juggernaut...

[dahamsta]

I was going to make that joke, but I thought it was very weak... ;)

[Dodge]

I was going to make that joke, but I thought it was very weak... ;)

Thinly veiled "damn, I wish I had thought of that..."

[Mr A]

Donegal tallies with most votes counted:

DOHERTY (SF) 39.7%

MCBREARTY (Lab) 10.2%

O'DOMHNAILL (FF) 21.2%

O'NEILL (FG) 18.4%

PRINGLE (Ind) 10.1%

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/almost-all-votes-counted-in-donegal-doherty-in-strong-lead-483356.html#ixzz16OFzNZyZ

Good performance by Pringle. The big Labour vote did not materialize compared to the poll indications. Still 4 to 5 times bigger than in the general election though. Very hard to know what to make of things when there could be a fair bit of tactical voting going on.

[Dodge]

Who's Pringle BTW? haven't really been keeping an eye on it. Single issue guy? Former main party member?

[Schumi]

Who's Pringle BTW? haven't really been keeping an eye on it. Single issue guy? Former main party member?

Former Shinner I think.

[Mr A]

Yeah, former Shinner from Killybegs. Would expect a lot of his votes to go to Doherty.

Final tally results:


Final tally results, with all boxes opened, show the Sinn Féin candidate on 39.7 per cent, Fianna Fáil candidate Senator Brian Ó Domhnaill on 21.2 per cent and Fine Gael's Barry O'Neill on 18.4 per cent.

The Labour Party's Frank McBrearty is on 10.2 per cent and Independent Thomas Pringle is on 10.1 per cent.

Hotelier Ann Sweeney withdrew from the race on Tuesday but her name remained on the ballot paper along with those of the other five candidates. She received 0.4 of all votes cast.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/1126/breaking4.html

[dahamsta]

When you refer to a poll Mr A, was that one specific to Donegal or the general one?

[Mr A]

Donegal SW ones in this case. They seemed to show McBrearty level with or slightly ahead of O'Neill.

[Lim till i die]

So roughly one in five people in Donegal South West think that Fianna Fail or Frank McBrearty are the answer. :bulgy:

[Schumi]

So roughly one in five people in Donegal South West think that Fianna Fail or Frank McBrearty are the answer. :bulgy:

More than that. FF are on 20% and Labour on 10%.

[Lim till i die]

I was being nice and taking into account the people who didn't bother voting bless them.

They have 30% of the 60% who turned out, that's like what, 18 or 19 percent of the total population??

Sorry, the oul maths wouldn't be great these days :)

Either way I stand over my :bulgy:

[Macy]

The FF figures might suggest the "shy Tory" effect isn't as much in evidence as some thought (and FF hoped). What's the labour vote up from in the last General Election? I wouldn't think Labour ever had this down as a win (even before the candidate selection!), even in the general election tbh.

[John83]

He's been there 2 years as a "public interest" nominee? How's that worked out for the public? He's just towed the Government line at every opportunity...
I really don't think there was anything he could do - all of the key decisions were Lenihan's. I can't really defend his public statements, mind.

@Dahamsta, yeah okay, I see what you mean.

[Schumi]

What's the labour vote up from in the last General Election?I think I heard 2.5% on the radio this morning.

Edit: 2.79%: http://electionsireland.org/result.cfm?election=2007&cons=74

[John83]

I was being nice and taking into account the people who didn't bother voting bless them.

They have 30% of the 60% who turned out, that's like what, 18 or 19 percent of the total population??

Sorry, the oul maths wouldn't be great these days :)

Either way I stand over my :bulgy:
I thought turnout was much lower than that, but RTE says 56%. Where are you getting 30% from though? Do you mean the combined LAB/FF vote?

[Dodge]

Where are you getting 30% from though? Do you mean the combined LAB/FF vote?

He can speak for himself obviously, but year thats what he said
people in Donegal South West think that Fianna Fail or Frank McBrearty are the answer

[culloty82]

Newstalk were projecting that Fianna Fáil would have 28 seats next year if that performance was repeated nationwide, Labour's vote did rise but they would struggle to make any impact even if McBrearty is by far their worst candidate. Also, how did Fine Gael contrive to actually lose votes compared with '07?

[BonnieShels]

I think you have to be careful extrapolating these figures nationally. SF were always going to win this seat. FG Aren't exactly transfer friendly in either direction with SF so it figures that they would be down in such a constituency.
They'll finish second and I think that that is a great result for them.

[Dodge]

What has being transfer friendly got to do with getting less first preference votes in an election where their main rival plummets?

[Mr A]

Yeah, the major message from this byelection is that FF are in trouble and we knew that anyway. You'd wonder how many SF votes were 'on loan' to make sure that FF were beaten, especially given that their candidate was perceived to have a chance.

The minor message (which could become major later) is that SF may be now transfer friendly for the first time.. but we'll have to see how that plays out.

[Mr A]

The results of the third count are:

Pearse Doherty (SF) +1452 = 15,188
Brian Ó'Domhall (FF) +278 = 7,636
Barry O'Neill (FG) +871 = 7,313
Thomas Pringle (Ind) +272 = 3,763

Non Transferrable +502 = 524

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/independent-eliminated-as-doherty-moves-closer-to-win-483416.html#ixzz16PZljC5c

Doherty mops up plenty of Labour transfers. But then most of these people are not usually Labour voters so not sure this will continue nationwide (although of course Labour will have quite a few new voters at next election judging by polls + this result). FF pick up very few.

Pringle's votes could elect Doherty. I hope they don't as I want to look at more transfer patterns :)

If you didn't know which parties were which but new this was Donegal, you'd probably assume that SF and FF were swapped.

[Kingdom]

MR A, would this be considered a decent result by Barry O'Neill, considering this is traditionally a FF area and considering the overwhelming support Doherty was going to receive as a result of his court action to initiate the bye-election?

[Mr A]

Usually I'd say FG should take a byelection there as the government usually loses them and FG're the next biggest party, but the circumstances around this one mean it's different. Doherty is a strong candidate and very high profile. He was seen as the man to knock out FF and therefore people may have backed him to ensure that happened. It's a pity in a way as I think he's a pretty good guy.

No doubt this is a superb result for SF though, and FG will be a bit disappointed.

[BonnieShels]

What has being transfer friendly got to do with getting less first preference votes in an election where their main rival plummets?

Normal rules in bye-elections don't apply. And bye-elections in Donegal are never gonna be normal. Add into the mill how this election was called and the state of the State and there are very few normal parameters left to measure this one on.
Like Mr A says in posts further not only was Doherty a dead cert for the seat but no doubt there were a lot of loan votes out there and I'm sure a fair few normal FG voters may have voted for him on an ABFF plan. I think that Ó Domhnall's result is actually shocking and makes me shudder. The real losers here were Labour but again I don't think you can read very much into it.

Coughlan's comments though make ya think though... "It was a disappointing result for FF but Pearse Doherty's previous campaigns had given him an advantage." WTF does that actually mean? She also complained that he had an advantage as a result of the court case. But would anyone care to ask Mary why that court case was brought?

The Dáil majority is now down to 2.

Meaning that Michael Lowry and The Mutant are in charge. Lord save us.

[John83]

Meaning that Michael Lowry and The Mutant are in charge. Lord save us.
These would be the folks who said they're not voting for the budget? Fun times.

[BonnieShels]

These would be the folks who said they're not voting for the budget? Fun times.

And don't forget Lowry won't vote for the budget but it's the patriotic duty, according to him for FG and LAB to do so.

Ceann Comhairle has a casting vote.

[John83]

And don't forget Lowry won't vote for the budget but it's the patriotic duty, according to him for FG and LAB to do so.

Ceann Comhairle has a casting vote.
Yeah, I remember that. If life was fair, that quote would be enough to put a firing squad on standby.

CC isn't counted in that majority of 2, no? Any rumours of a backbencher or three maybe breaking the government? I can just see some slimy little ******* with a safe local seat preparing for life after FF that way.

[BonnieShels]

With a bit of luck that will happen. CC's vote is not included afaik.

[Schumi]

From what FG guys were saying this week, I get the impression that they'll abstain to let the budget go through.

[BonnieShels]

I got that sinking feeling too. the Doctor came out and backed the 4 year plan. FG should steer clear of anything that could be remotely controversial.
they can always bring in a budget themselves. With a gigantic majority it should be fine.

[Comic Book Guy]

These would be the folks who said they're not voting for the budget? Fun times.

If the panel on Vincent Browne last Tuesday night are to be believed, I know it's a big if, the real level of our debt could be of the order of 340 billion, then a budget designed to cut 15 billion over 4 years won't make much odds to this debt, only that it will cause untold social misery for years to come.

It seems we are well and truly in default territory here. The longer that collection of f****ts cling on to power the worse it will be. I believe if we are to have any chance for this country for future generations then we as a nation have to have our own version of de-nazification i.e rid the country of the malign influence of FF which has leached down into all walks of Irish life. Easier said than done I know but once they are out of power I hope that process can begin, some hope I know.

[mypost]

Doherty wins as expected, which means SF now hasve one less seat than the Greens, and also that they have nobody from their party standing in the Seanad for the remainder of the current term.

[culloty82]

SF now planning to form a voting bloc with Finian McGrath and Maureen O'Sullivan for the purpose of tabling their no-confidence motion, but given the Budget effectively serves the same purpose, there doesn't seem to be as much point as there did last week.

[bennocelt]

It seems we are well and truly in default territory here. The longer that collection of f****ts cling on to power the worse it will be. I believe if we are to have any chance for this country for future generations then we as a nation have to have our own version of de-nazification i.e rid the country of the malign influence of FF which has leached down into all walks of Irish life. Easier said than done I know but once they are out of power I hope that process can begin, some hope I know.

Agree
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/onlookers-baffled-by-ahern-fanfare-2439371.html
I weep sometimes for Ireland, really do!

[John83]

If the panel on Vincent Browne last Tuesday night are to be believed, I know it's a big if, the real level of our debt could be of the order of 340 billion, then a budget designed to cut 15 billion over 4 years won't make much odds to this debt, only that it will cause untold social misery for years to come.
:eek: Surely the budget would be no better even if we were to default? We're couldn't possibly be able to start paying off the loans for a few years.

[dahamsta]

I have another question. If it wasn't for the oxygen the media is giving Lowry at the moment, I probably wouldn't have been aware of the fact he was back in the Dail. My question is: Who voted for this guy? He's proven to be both corrupt and a tax dodger! Who thinks it's ok to have someone that comfortable with flouting the laws representing them?

[osarusan]

Who thinks it's ok to have someone that comfortable with flouting the laws representing them?
Garret Fitzgerald had a good article in the Irish Times not so long ago noting that among a certain element of the electorate, evidence of corruption seems to be a prerequisite for election.

To answer your question, 12,919 people in Tipperary gave him their first preference vote. His work for the GAA twenty years ago is probably of more importance to them than the country in general.

[Dodge]

Dermot Ahern isn't standing in the next election. granted he's not 100% health wise but it will save the embaressment of Adams out polling him

[dahamsta]

Ah, I didn't realise he was Louth, that makes a lot of sense.

Thanks for that osarusan. They're ok with him stealing their money then? ;)