Ciaran Clark D Free agent b.1989

[EastTerracer]

What they don't seem to understand is that almost everyone raising such points recognises the difference between a Kevin Kilbane or a Gary Breen (i.e. someone who though born abroad has grown up acutely aware of, and consequently being proud of their Irish roots ) and an Andy Townsend or Clinton Morrison who obviously only threw their lot in with us because they realised they weren't going to ever get a chance to represent the land of their first love - England.

Clinton spent most of his summer holidays as a kid in North County Dublin so I think it's a bit unfair to suggest that he wasn't aware or proud of his Irish roots. It's never as clearcut as you think.

[youngirish]

the guy's very young, breaking into a premiership side and has been linked with clubs like man united. if he really wanted to play for england he would have waited a little longer don't you think? i have more reservations about someone like noble who has clearly waited until the england train has left the station.
I have nothing against Clark personally. I would simply question why he hasn't played for any of our youth teams and chose instead to represent England. I agree he is at an age where it is still very possible that he may turn out to be good enough to represent England in the future and perhaps he switched out of a genuine preference to represent us or perhaps the lure of an immediate cap swayed his hand. I can't say either way and I'll support him if he lines out for us.

International football teams should as much as possible be made up of players who have a strong affinity with the country that they are representing ( I would like to use the word citizens here but citizenship is thrown at promising young footballers in a way that most other occupations could only dream about). If you want to see guys playing their hearts out for a team that they have no affinity for other than that of a professional sense then watch club football.

[SwanVsDalton]

Effort's got nothing to do with it.

Effort would be less relevant if our team was in fact being overrun by a mercenary bunch of passport grabbers, as you've suggested. But it isn't, so effort, of course, is relevant. It's important to note that the few players who fit the previous description have represented us with pride.


Anyway given the chance to play international football is going to try their best out of professional pride - its not like they're forced to be out their against will (unless they're Stephen Ireland)

Barry Ferguson? Nicolas Anelka? Antonio Cassano? There are numerous examples, both in and out of the Irish setup, suggesting otherwise.


Clark's statement is clearly worded to go out of his way to sound honorable about his career move but even so he still effectively states he's going to plays for us bacause he cant see his England career getting any further.

Talk about suggestive reading. What about wanting to play for 'his parents and himself'? What about it being an offer he couldn't turn down? Can't you see that maybe, just maybe, this is a decision he wanted to make on a personal level as much as a professional one?

Regardless since he grew up with English friends, English coaches, plays at an English club predominantly followed by English fans, it is natural he would want to play up or at least mention the honour and commitment he felt towards them. After all just because he played for England, it doesn't make him any less Irish. It's simply not that black and white - or green and white if you prefer.

Finally who knows if he actually thought he had no chance with England - I really doubt it though since Gary Cahill's in and out of squads and Clark's a higher rated prospect round Villa Park. If he was really as career minded as you suggest he would've stuck it out with England and then declared for us seven years down the line when he still wasn't capped.

It's a shame some people think this way - I think a young guy to taking such definitive, life-changing action showed bravery and a real desire to play for us.

[Closed Account 2]

Yes I meant in Europe as in playing for European countries amongst who there is an entire ONE exception to this on the continent - that of Obreniak. FIFA constantly seems to change its rules these days to appease nagging Third World countries. The old rules regarding eligibilitywere there in the first place place to ensure footballers didn't try swapping countries like they did clubs to suit their (adjusted) career aspirations. Its sad to see us going down that line as well.


Why are you limiting it to European nations vs European Nations? Why is Obraniak more of a valid example than say Meghni or Kevin Boateng ? Fifa set the rules for international selection (not UEFA). You're just narrowing the scope to try and fudge your arguement into a more acceptable view, just like excluding USSR / Yugoslavia issues.


I'm not sure what you're getting at by "nagging Third World countries" sounds a bit sinister, but even then it's not just these supposed Third World countries that have such players playing for them (e.g. Jermaine Jones plays for the USA).

Also you're wrong again to say it's just ONE exception, off the top of my head I can think of another - Mevlut Erdinc (born in Jura, France - same town as Belhadj, played for France u17s, now plays for the Turkish National team, only ever lived in France Montbeliard and Paris). That's two out of the 30 odd countries left as "valid" under your criteria (i.e. not ex USSR, not ex Yugoslavia, not "Celtic country" - which knocks out over 20 UEFA countries).

[geysir]

Being a SuperPaddy (the most superior breed of Irish patriots), I can say I have no issue with Clark changing from England to Ireland.
May he go on now to represent the land of his parents.

[DannyInvincible]

I have nothing against Clark personally. I would simply question why he hasn't played for any of our youth teams and chose instead to represent England. I agree he is at an age where it is still very possible that he may turn out to be good enough to represent England in the future and perhaps he switched out of a genuine preference to represent us or perhaps the lure of an immediate cap swayed his hand. I can't say either way and I'll support him if he lines out for us.

Apologies if this has been covered already, but was Clark ever approached by the FAI before now?

[Adrock]

Why are you limiting it to European nations vs European Nations? Why is Obraniak more of a valid example than say Meghni or Kevin Boateng ? Fifa set the rules for international selection (not UEFA). You're just narrowing the scope to try and fudge your arguement into a more acceptable view, just like excluding USSR / Yugoslavia issues.


I'm not sure what you're getting at by "nagging Third World countries" sounds a bit sinister, but even then it's not just these supposed Third World countries that have such players playing for them (e.g. Jermaine Jones plays for the USA).

Also you're wrong again to say it's just ONE exception, off the top of my head I can think of another - Mevlut Erdinc (born in Jura, France - same town as Belhadj, played for France u17s, now plays for the Turkish National team, only ever lived in France Montbeliard and Paris). That's two out of the 30 odd countries left as "valid" under your criteria (i.e. not ex USSR, not ex Yugoslavia, not "Celtic country" - which knocks out over 20 UEFA countries).
I've been to Africa and they need all the charitable aid they can get from their former colonial masters, we can live without their donations though I'm sure.
Yugoslavia players i.e Bosnian Serbs born in former Yugoslavia, Kosovan refugees etc are a seperate political issue equivalent to the 'should Shane Duffy be allowed to represent Republic of Ireland?' matter I prefer not to get involved in, there's no Clark or St Ledger types I can see in the former USSR.
As for the other couple of individuals you use to illustrate your point these are what as known as anomalies and do not quite compare to the literally hundreds of English or Scottish players that have featured at various levels for Ireland the last couple of decades at least. Look at any Ireland squad at any level from under-17 up and its likely to be swarming with English players. This obsessive family tree hunting and going round every club in the UK begging for players to represent us is nothing but a stain on our national team and the likes of Liam Brady who say its necessary because we're a small country should look at the examples of several other small countries in Europe who manage to qualify for tournaments with their own players. Do we go hunting for British politicians with Irish relatives to represent us in Parliament or international organisations? No and i'm sure its not because some of them couldnt do a better job than what we've got.
Its time to reclaim the Irish football team for the Irish .Sorry if this offends those who have become accustomed to pretending that Englishmen with an Irish ancestor who take advantage of this fallback international footballing representative option are actually bonafide Irishmen whereas if they'd taken any other career path would probably never have given a second thought to the notion of their supposed Irishness. 1990 and 1994 were fun to watch growing up but they did not signify we were a great footballing nation suddenly. The sad thing is we've probably got a generation of Irish players now (those who actually grew up supporting us) who could be good enough to qualify for a major tournament in their own right without the assistance of all the usual brigade plastics and mercenaries we use to puff out our numbers. If it gives you all comfort to go on pretending then be my guest but your justifications are delusional!

[Paddy Garcia]

My only query is how come you have been thanked for your input on 5 occasions!

[elroy]

examples of several other small countries in Europe who manage to qualify for tournaments with their own players.

like who for example?? Do these countries have a similar emigration pattern engraved in the past and recent history?

[Sullivinho]

Apologies if this has been covered already, but was Clark ever approached by the FAI before now?

I don't think they realised he was eligible until Richard Dunne tipped them off. Any version of this story I've heard/read credits Dunney.

[CraftyToePoke]

I don't think they realised he was eligible until Richard Dunne tipped them off. Any version of this story I've heard/read credits Dunney.

a chronic failing in the FAI scouting/trawling if this is true, and it appears it may well be as there is no mention of any previous contact, how is it they can dredge up a journeyman from the arrrse end of division 2 in Green, who qualifies but only just, and we end up with him disgracing himself in our midfield while better players remain outside the fold, and all the while a man by the name of Ciaran Clarke, breaking through at one of the better sides can remain under their radar? a man who didnt think twice when asked to join us.

[Adrock]

like who for example?? Do these countries have a similar emigration pattern engraved in the past and recent history?
Well lets see the population of our island would be roughly 6 and a half million (five and a quarter perhaps shall we say papally inclined) , making us somewhat larger than for instance Denmark (1992 Euro winners) Croatia (1998 world cup semifinalists) and significantly more than Slovenia who dont seem to find qualifying for tournaments too trying. Also similar to Serbia, Switzerland, Slovakia and Bulgaria (1994 world cup semifinalists). That wasnt so hard was it?

[Sullivinho]

a chronic failing in the FAI scouting/trawling if this is true, and it appears it may well be as there is no mention of any previous contact, how is it they can dredge up a journeyman from the arrrse end of division 2 in Green, who qualifies but only just, and we end up with him disgracing himself in our midfield while better players remain outside the fold, and all the while a man by the name of Ciaran Clarke, breaking through at one of the better sides can remain under their radar? a man who didnt think twice when asked to join us.

It's a strange one alright, considering his ties are fairly strong and all.

[Predator]

I don't think they realised he was eligible until Richard Dunne tipped them off. Any version of this story I've heard/read credits Dunney.I don't know. All the stories seem to credit Dunne as being influential and from that I take it that he simply talked Clark into declaring. From what I can remember, Clark was quoted as saying that he felt his England career wasn't going anywhere and that it was difficult to turn down the opportunity to play for Ireland. While it's possible that Dunne tipped the FAI off, I suspect that Clark and the FAI were already aware of his eligibility.

Edit: Actually, you might be right.

[seanfhear]

Well lets see the population of our island would be roughly 6 and a half million (five and a quarter perhaps shall we say papally inclined) , making us somewhat larger than for instance Denmark (1992 Euro winners) Croatia (1998 world cup semifinalists) and significantly more than Slovenia who dont seem to find qualifying for tournaments too trying. Also similar to Serbia, Switzerland, Slovakia and Bulgaria (1994 world cup semifinalists). That wasnt so hard was it?I think your mask (or is it a bowler hat) is slipping to one side. Can you just slide it plumb because gods knows what might happen if we gave it a nudge with the bishops crozier.

[elroy]

Well lets see the population of our island would be roughly 6 and a half million (five and a quarter perhaps shall we say papally inclined) , making us somewhat larger than for instance Denmark (1992 Euro winners) Croatia (1998 world cup semifinalists) and significantly more than Slovenia who dont seem to find qualifying for tournaments too trying. Also similar to Serbia, Switzerland, Slovakia and Bulgaria (1994 world cup semifinalists). That wasnt so hard was it?

Yes it is easy to list off countries of similar size, some reasonable examples there but you need to delve a little more deeper into the facts than just that.

The population of this country is less than 5 million. Out of the countries you list above, one of the most akin to us would be Croatia, of course they have not been known to call up players born outside their country?!?

Slovakia, population of 5.5m. They have qualified for one World Cup out of four attempts and have yet to make a Euros. Hardly prolific either. Again Im not very aware of their squad but given Yugoslavias strong history in the game, I would imagine most of their squad if not all are in fact Slovak born.

Switzerland, population of approx 8m. They have made the last two World Cups, but prior to that only qualified for one in 9. But lo and behold, the Swiss have been known to cap players not born in their country either, even their current squad contains a few non Swiss born players.

Bulgaria, they havent qualified for the last three WC's and have only ever made the Euros twice. Hardly shining lights to example.

Slovenia, I will give you that they have qualified for the last 2 world cups and I cant say I know enough about their squad to comment on its make up.

Also another point to consider, in each of the countries listed, how many of them have football (by a sizeable margin) as their national sport??? Something, unfortunately we do not have the luxury off and thus having the effect of reducing our playing pool further.

[Closed Account 2]

Well lets see the population of our island would be roughly 6 and a half million (five and a quarter perhaps shall we say papally inclined) , making us somewhat larger than for instance Denmark (1992 Euro winners) Croatia (1998 world cup semifinalists) and significantly more than Sloveniawho dont seem to find qualifying for tournaments too trying. Also similar to Serbia, Switzerland, Slovakia and Bulgaria (1994 world cup semifinalists). That wasnt so hard was it?


I've been to Africa and they need all the charitable aid they can get from their former colonial masters, we can live without their donations though I'm sure.
Yugoslavia players i.e Bosnian Serbs born in former Yugoslavia, Kosovan refugees etc are a seperate political issue equivalent to the 'should Shane Duffy be allowed to represent Republic of Ireland?' matter I prefer not to get involved in, there's no Clark or St Ledger types I can see in the former USSR.
...

So the ex-Yugoslavia is a "seperate" issue, but you think it's valid to include them as a comparison anyway. The Croatian arguement doesnt hold water anyway, Simunic born in Canberra, Australia; Ivan Rakitic born in Switzerland, played U21s for Swiss; Corluka born in Derventa RS Bosnia; Bartulovic and Lovren both born in Zenica Bosnia; Klasnic and Ilicevic born in Germany; Eduardo born in Rio; Jelavic born in Capljina Bosnia; Mladen Petric born in Brcko Bosnia.

Slovenia's Josip Ilicic was born in Prijedor, RS Bosnia, (Bosnia doesnt even share a border with Slovenia) same with Dedic, born in in Bihac.

For Serbia even ignoring the likes of Subotic, Koroman, Krstajic and Milosevic (all born in Bosnia) and Ergic and Ljuboja (both born in Croatia), there is
as I mentioned already Kuzmanovic (born in Switzerland played for their U21s).

As for ex-USSR, well Semak (Russian captain) was born in USSR, his parents still live there and he has stated that he is Ukrainian and only Russian by late aquisition of citizenship (http://www.eurosport.ru/football/story_sto2064648.shtml). As I said Milevskiy was born in Minsk and played for Belarus's underage teams until he transferred to Boryspil aged 15. Marko Devic is a Serbian who had nothing to do with Ukraine until he left Radnicki and joined Lutsk, then he got Ukraine citizenship and now has played 6 times for them. Kislyak, the Belarussian who scored for them against France in September was born in Kamyanets, Ukraine, Rudzik was born in St. Petersburg, Russia. Pereplotkins, the Latvian on loan at Derby last year, was born in Ukraine as was Marian Pahars.

[Adrock]

I think your mask (or is it a bowler hat) is slipping to one side. Can you just slide it plumb because gods knows what might happen if we gave it a nudge with the bishops crozier.
Attacking the poster is a slightly childish if predicatable form of debate for those who dont like having their views challenged and are unable to even assess why they hold whatever viewpoint they do. You dont have to be whatever the hell it is your implying I am to care about the national composition of the national football team.

[geysir]

Adrock, your exclusive political agenda here has run its course. You have no interest in the Ireland football team apart from opinions on who is Irish enough to represent Ireland.
Either you get involved in the football related discussions or just go elsewhere to try and infiltrate another website discussion board with your exclusive political agenda.

[paul_oshea]

Do politics and football not mix then?!

[Adrock]

Adrock, your exclusive political agenda here has run its course. You have no interest in the Ireland football team apart from opinions on who is Irish enough to represent Ireland.
Either you get involved in the football related discussions or just go elsewhere to try and infiltrate another website discussion board with your exclusive political agenda.
If I wanted to do politics I'd be wading in to the Shane Duffy Northern ireland issue which is almost entirely political. I have posted on several seperate topics, fewr than half being eligibility related but in case you hadnt noticed an awful lot of posts in the interim between international matches tend to be dominated by the 'this players name sounds a bit Irish lets go for him/ I've got an extra special secret source says this England player's definitely going to declare for us' rubbish which I find tiresome and ridiculous and I cant believe I'm the only one. When I question this peculiarly twisted method of player recruitemnt I always get a barrage of responses which I in turn respond to as this is the point of a forum. Sometimes they are even quite intelligent and well expressed .
As adults we should be able to think about why we hold a certain opinion instead of petulantly slinging abuse at someone beacuse they think differently to you.

[Closed Account 2]

Bulgaria, they havent qualified for the last three WC's and have only ever made the Euros twice. Hardly shining lights to example.


Actually even Bulgaria have had non-Bulgarian born players playing for them. There was a guy who was born in Serbia, lived his whole life there until he transferred to a Sofia club (either Levksi or CSKA) around 2000-2001, and then he got Bulgarian citizenship and played for them, I think he was called Pedrag Pazin or Paznin or something.

I don't think there can be many UEFA nations who havent fielded a foreign-born player in their International side, maybe Denmark if you say Jesper Gronkjaer's Greenland isnt a valid country as it's not UEFA, maybe it's none.

[Adrock]

So the ex-Yugoslavia is a "seperate" issue, but you think it's valid to include them as a comparison anyway. The Croatian arguement doesnt hold water anyway, Simunic born in Canberra, Australia; Ivan Rakitic born in Switzerland, played U21s for Swiss; Corluka born in Derventa RS Bosnia; Bartulovic and Lovren both born in Zenica Bosnia; Klasnic and Ilicevic born in Germany; Eduardo born in Rio; Jelavic born in Capljina Bosnia; Mladen Petric born in Brcko Bosnia.

Slovenia's Josip Ilicic was born in Prijedor, RS Bosnia, (Bosnia doesnt even share a border with Slovenia) same with Dedic, born in in Bihac.

For Serbia even ignoring the likes of Subotic, Koroman, Krstajic and Milosevic (all born in Bosnia) and Ergic and Ljuboja (both born in Croatia), there is
as I mentioned already Kuzmanovic (born in Switzerland played for their U21s).

As for ex-USSR, well Semak (Russian captain) was born in USSR, his parents still live there and he has stated that he is Ukrainian and only Russian by late aquisition of citizenship (http://www.eurosport.ru/football/story_sto2064648.shtml). As I said Milevskiy was born in Minsk and played for Belarus's underage teams until he transferred to Boryspil aged 15. Marko Devic is a Serbian who had nothing to do with Ukraine until he left Radnicki and joined Lutsk, then he got Ukraine citizenship and now has played 6 times for them. Kislyak, the Belarussian who scored for them against France in September was born in Kamyanets, Ukraine, Rudzik was born in St. Petersburg, Russia. Pereplotkins, the Latvian on loan at Derby last year, was born in Ukraine as was Marian Pahars.

The Croats and Serbs born in Yugoslav Bosnia I could write you a dissatation on Balkan history as to why this is the case, similar to the Northern ireland issue except that the split happened in their lifetimes - i believe there was a civil war on the issue. Other players you mentioned qualified through residence or through parentage and chose to play for the country they do ahead of other options because that is what they believed there nationality to be. Kuzmanovic and Rakitic were offered the chance to represnt Switzerland at full level but chose to play for Serbia and Croatia respectively beacause that is what they considered themselves to be. I dont have a major beef with mcgeady and mccarthy in that they are clearly good enough for Scotland but chose to play for Ireland for whatever reason despite their tenuous link (for the record I dont think they should be playing for us but it is a lesser evil than being someone's second choice) When did anyone wanted by England to be capped by them ever said 'no I'm irish , that's me its Ireland or nothing' . Thats what makes me a tad cynical on the issue. I understand Clark's reasons for switching but you shouldnt really be playing for Ireland because you're nagged in to it and don't think you're going to make the England squad. The fact that this viewpoint seems to be unpopular puzzles and deeply saddens me to be honest :frown:

[elroy]

'this players name sounds a bit Irish lets go for him/ I've got an extra special secret source says this England player's definitely going to declare for us' rubbish which I find tiresome and ridiculous and I cant believe I'm the only one.

To be honest I dont think its like that at all. For example, I started this thread, I read a few youth team reports about Clark elsewhere and obviously considering his first name I wondered if he were Irish. It wasnt until I researched a little further that I realised he was 2G Irish. I genuinely think that most of the names thrown out on this website arise from similar circumstances. Its not at all purely seeking out foreign born players eligible for us.

In any case, should we not search out players fully eligible for us, even if they werent born in this country. No in my opinion. From past experience, for every Plastic Paddy, there have been 10 genuine 2G players who have shown great dedication to the cause. The ironic thing is that there are some 2G players that I can think of that have shown a greater dedication and affinity to the Irish team than Irish born players. The same thing can actually be also said of some of our fans.

[Crosby87]

If the rule is there, why not take advantage of it? Honestly. What the hell is the argument against that. Its called being competitive.

And I agree with you about the fan thing Elroy. I know there are some people who call themselves "fans" in Ireland who would not use half their freaking vacation days like I do to be in a pub at 12 noon on a Tuesday or Friday.... Some of us 2G folk love our heritage and believe it or not know more about "Being Irish" than just puking on St Pattys and listening to the Drop Kick Murphys at the Gym.

[Charlie Darwin]

to be in a pub at 12 noon on a Tuesday or Friday
Sure I'm there Ireland game or no Ireland game...

[seanfhear]

Sure I'm there Ireland game or no Ireland game...
In that case you'd be Irish even if you were'nt if you know what I mean !

[Gnobe]

I think some people don't understand the concept of dual nationality sometimes on here.

I remember watching Adrian Chiles (itv presenter) proudly boast his Croatian background (which he's fiercely proud of) on many occasions. Anyone remember him in the euro championships wearing Croatian gear in the stadium during a game, sitting singing with the Croatian fans? Even on the trains? Now since he's only half and half I would assume he supports England just as much and if asked he would support first? I guess he would say England since that's the country he's lived in all his life.

Now that would mean if he were a footballer Croatia would probably be his second choice, but who would be to dare say to him that he's not passionate to play for Croatia? I bet he would play his heart out for them judging from what I saw in the euro championships back in 08. He was a mad man celebrating with them!

So I would disagree entirely with Adrock - just because somebody slightly favours England over Ireland doesn't mean they can't be passionate about being Irish. It's ballocks. Seriously.

[SwanVsDalton]

Thats what makes me a tad cynical on the issue. I understand Clark's reasons for switching but you shouldnt really be playing for Ireland because you're nagged in to it and don't think you're going to make the England squad. The fact that this viewpoint seems to be unpopular puzzles and deeply saddens me to be honest :frown:

As has been pointed out to you several times, Clark didn't have to be 'nagged' into it because he thought he wasn't going to make the England squad. He declared at ayoung age before he's even been invited to join a single Irish squad.

[Adrock]

As has been pointed out to you several times, Clark didn't have to be 'nagged' into it because he thought he wasn't going to make the England squad. He declared at ayoung age before he's even been invited to join a single Irish squad.
In the words of Richard Dunne ' I had a word with Clarky so I'm to blame' and was subsequently approached by the FAI In the words of Clark in his defection statement 'I captained England youth team but i didn't see that going anywhere'
Infer what you will from these comments but it doesnt exactly sound like Clark had a sudden epiphany about how he was really irish all this time , with shamrocks dancing before his eyes filling him with a burning desire to play for his parents land and begging the FAI to fulil his hearfelt wishes. People will interpret his motives according to what it suits them to believe but looking at it rationally and objectively it doesnt look quite that way. To be fair Clark isnt really pretending his is really an Irishman same as Andy Townsend readily admitted he is not actually Irish. its an easier route in to international football and you cant blame him for taking it but there is no dignity or honor on the part of our footballing association is hunting after these kind players.
For the record couldnt very well be invited in to a squad before declaring as his numerous appearances for this homeland mean that he needs to obtain special authorisation to transfer his allegiances.

[SwanVsDalton]

In the words of Richard Dunne ' I had a word with Clarky so I'm to blame' and was subsequently approached by the FAI In the words of Clark in his defection statement 'I captained England youth team but i didn't see that going anywhere'
Infer what you will from these comments but it doesnt exactly sound like Clark had a sudden epiphany about how he was really irish all this time , with shamrocks dancing before his eyes filling him with a burning desire to play for his parents land and begging the FAI to fulil his hearfelt wishes. People will interpret his motives according to what it suits them to believe but looking at it rationally and objectively it doesnt look quite that way. To be fair Clark isnt really pretending his is really an Irishman same as Andy Townsend readily admitted he is not actually Irish. its an easier route in to international football and you cant blame him for taking it but there is no dignity or honor on the part of our footballing association is hunting after these kind players.
For the record couldnt very well be invited in to a squad before declaring as his numerous appearances for this homeland mean that he needs to obtain special authorisation to transfer his allegiances.

Again it's been pointed out repeatedly that your reading of the situation is extremely selective (and not 'rational or objective' at all) since it completely ignores the fact that a young player has made a lifetime commitment to our national side. It can't be explained to you any simpler than:

Clark had a shot with England.
He choose to take up his options with Ireland early doors, a brave move given his prospects and upbringing.
This is good for a young Irish footballer, the national squad and the fans.

Would you be less begrudging if he declared in a decade when his possible career with England played out as bust? Or if he just didn't bother declaring at all?

Clark's courage to declare at this point is ample enough evidence of his commitment and, for me, his Irishness.

Anyway of course he's Irish, his name's spelt correctly, nuff said...

[SkStu]

Infer what you will from these comments but it doesnt exactly sound like Clark had a sudden epiphany about how he was really irish all this time , with shamrocks dancing before his eyes filling him with a burning desire to play for his parents land and begging the FAI to fulil his hearfelt wishes. .

is that necessary though? If you feel it is then a) some of our own Irish born players must be a great disappointment to you, b) it just doesnt happen like that anymore. International football is not attractive to most, and c) i find such proclomations very contrived.

[elroy]

John Aldridge was on the panel last night. If was asked something along the lines of would he have liked to have played for England.

He basically said that he was English born so yes if England called he wouldve played for them, but as it happened Ireland came calling. he was very proud of his Irish heritage and was honoured to represent us. Once he did, he never looked back or regreted it.

I would imagine alot of English born lads that declare for us are of the same mindset as above. Is there anything wrong with it?? Well you make your own mind up, I certainly dont.

Just out of interest Adrock, what would be your opinion of a lad born in Ireland but with both parents and grandparents born outside Ireland, so therefore he has not Irish ancestry whatsoever.

[co. down green]

John Aldridge was on the panel last night. If was asked something along the lines of would he have liked to have played for England.

He basically said that he was English born so yes if England called he wouldve played for them, but as it happened Ireland came calling. he was very proud of his Irish heritage and was honoured to represent us. Once he did, he never looked back or regreted it.

I would imagine alot of English born lads that declare for us are of the same mindset as above. Is there anything wrong with it?? Well you make your own mind up, I certainly dont.



very well explained

[Adrock]

Actually even Bulgaria have had non-Bulgarian born players playing for them. There was a guy who was born in Serbia, lived his whole life there until he transferred to a Sofia club (either Levksi or CSKA) around 2000-2001, and then he got Bulgarian citizenship and played for them, I think he was called Pedrag Pazin or Paznin or something.

I don't think there can be many UEFA nations who havent fielded a foreign-born player in their International side, maybe Denmark if you say Jesper Gronkjaer's Greenland isnt a valid country as it's not UEFA, maybe it's none.
I have to admire your researching skills. Had you considered employment with the FAI in their hereditary analysis department in London? (they their own floor in the Canary Wharf now I hear) You get good commission - €500 for recruiting a 2G, €1000 for a granny ruler plus an extra €200 for every England cap they've got. :)

[Adrock]

I would imagine alot of English born lads that declare for us are of the same mindset as above. Is there anything wrong with it?? Well you make your own mind up, I certainly dont.

Just out of interest Adrock, what would be your opinion of a lad born in Ireland but with both parents and grandparents born outside Ireland, so therefore he has not Irish ancestry whatsoever.

Of course not because Ireland would be their home if you look at most western European countries their national teams comprise of a lot of players whose parents were immigrants or moved there themselves as kids. Perhaps in the future this could be the case with Ireland too and I'd be just as happy if a player with nigerian parents who had grown up here represented us as one with irish parents, why shouldn't they after all. I can even understand an individual whose parents are Irish may still grow up supporting our national team and even perceiving themselves as Irish if that was the way they were brought up. If this was the case then fair enough but you'd think you'd want to play from ireland from the start instead of seeing how far you could get with England or Scotland or whoever. The ROI offers a somewhat easier route in to international football so there's no reason you'd want to keep playing for England unless this was the country you really wanted to represent.
I'm afraid I have no respect for that particular scouser's opinions so I didnt bother to read that part of the post , apologies

[The Fly]

http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~2200963,00.html



Ciaran Clark has agreed a new deal at Aston Villa, committing his future to the club until the summer of 2014.

The former England Under-18, U-19 and U-20 captain, who recently declared for the Republic of Ireland, has established himself in the Villa first team squad and is excited about the future for a club he joined as a 12-year-old schoolboy.

"I'm delighted to sign a new deal and commit my future to the club," Clark said.

"I feel I'm at a football club that is progressing and provides an environment in which the young players coming through all want to excel.

"The likes of Marc Albrighton, Barry Bannan, Nathan Delfouneso, Eric Lichaj, we've all come through together and this underlines the quality of the youth structure at the club.

"It's a great feeling for me to be signing a new deal because it's what I've worked for since I first came here - to be a part of the team and to contribute what I can to a great football club."

Clark started at the heart of defence in the opening game of the season, a 3-0 victory over West Ham, and he has featured in both Carling Cup victories to date under new manager Gerard Houllier, who had no hesitation in bringing on the 21-year-old early in the Premier League game against Chelsea when Richard Dunne came off injured.

"I know that the gaffer wants to see me continuing to improve and I'm looking forward to working hard over the next few years," Clark added.

"I feel at home at the club and it would be fantastic to be a part of the success which all the lads here are striving for."

[The Fly]

Clark starts for Villa today in the derby against Birmingham City. Kick off - 12:00pm.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/9128210.stm


Dunne and Collins are also listed as starters for Villa, which means Houllier is either using a 5-4-1 formation, or *one of them is starting in midfield. Given this a derby, with Villa as the home side, I'll go with the latter.


* Many posters on 'VillaTalk', the main Villa supporters forum, are stating that Clark is playing in midfield.

[The Fly]

Its just been confirmed on BBC Radio 5-live that Clark is indeed starting in midfield.

This will be a big test for him, and shows the obvious regard he is held in by Houllier.

[paul_oshea]

sidwell taken off and clark left on...

interestingly fahey had 4 or so shots on goal in the first half, and he started.

Barry Bannan sounds like an Irish name, anyone know anything about him(apart from being born in scotland i mean)?

[ArdeeBhoy]

I can even understand an individual whose parents are Irish may still grow up supporting our national team and even perceiving themselves as Irish if that was the way they were brought up. If this was the case then fair enough but you'd think you'd want to play from ireland from the start instead of seeing how far you could get with England or Scotland or whoever. The ROI offers a somewhat easier route in to international football so there's no reason you'd want to keep playing for England unless this was the country you really wanted to represent.

So no-one ever, can change their mind?? :eek: Clearly you know very little about human nature!

And who gives a flying f*ck how tenuous their connection is;If they want to play and do the business, who really cares??

[The Fly]

Barry Bannan sounds like an Irish name, anyone know anything about him(apart from being born in scotland i mean)?

He has 8 caps at under-21 level for Scotland.

[paul_oshea]

Ya but i wonder has he any irish in him...seems fairly dedicated though alright...

[ArdeeBhoy]

Its just been confirmed on BBC Radio 5-live that Clark is indeed starting in midfield.

The pundit for the Brum derby, a Mr.Worthington, that CC wondered might be eligible for the North? It was however suggested that CC's first name & his previous schoolboy affliations made this unlikely!
;)

Though he did claim he was going to approach him in the car park afterwards.
And they have the nerve to suggest we're "the k*ddy fiddlers"!

[Stuttgart88]

his name's spelt correctly, nuff said...I know a few Clarkes who'd beg to differ :)

[paul_oshea]

haha stutts....cant beleive i missed that one!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Stutts is right. He knows, trust me.

Without the 'e' is the Scottish spelling.

[mark12345]

What I just love about all the nay sayers on this board (and thankfully there are less of them with the passing days) is that they are as quiet as mice when England call up someone like Bolton's Gary Cahill, who is more than eligible for us. But it's being going on (with them) for decades - Kevin Keegan, Steve McMahon, Martin Keown. Need I go on, there have been many more.

[The Fly]

Stutts is right. He knows, trust me.

Without the 'e' is the Scottish spelling.

His father is Scottish, which may explain the spelling.

[tricky_colour]

What I just love about all the nay sayers on this board (and thankfully there are less of them with the passing days) is that they are as quiet as mice when England call up someone like Bolton's Gary Cahill, who is more than eligible for us. But it's being going on (with them) for decades - Kevin Keegan, Steve McMahon, Martin Keown. Need I go on, there have been many more.

Very true, England have a Rooney playing (albeit crap - lol) for them, you can't a get a more Irish name, plus he has no English blood in him whatsoever.


Anyway I was wondering if Clint Dempsey was eligible for us, he is apparently, or would have been at some point.