Ciaran Clark D Free agent b.1989

[backstothewall]

It's just a ridiculous statement that doesn't deserve further analysis really.

But when did that ever stop us in the past eh?

I put him roughly on a par with Phil Babb.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I have been a critic of O'Shea in the past (over half-a-dozen years ago) but his face fits. We needed a senior statesman at the back with Dunne retiring and he has stepped up to the plate. I think he's been a calming enough influence at the back. I think our faults lie elsewhere.

[Stuttgart88]

I think O'Shea is definitely one of the worst multiple league winners, champions league finalists and champions league semi-final goalscorers to ever win around a hundred caps for us.

[the doc]

I think O'Shea is definitely one of the worst multiple league winners, champions league finalists and champions league semi-final goalscorers to ever win around a hundred caps for us.

Well said!

Top man JOSH.

Irish to the core, yet feckers on here still have a go.

[backstothewall]

Well said!

Top man JOSH.

Irish to the core, yet feckers on here still have a go.

I don't think anyone is questioning his Irishness, his commitment to the cause or what he has achieved as a player.

But he is 34 now. At some point the torch has to be passed on.

[DeLorean]

At some point absolutely, like...

-When he retires
-When he stops performing
-When we actually have somebody better

Until then there's no question in my mind, we need him and I really hope he's around for another campaign.

[Olé Olé]

At some point absolutely, like...

-When he retires
-When he stops performing
-When we actually have somebody better

Until then there's no question in my mind, we need him and I really hope he's around for another campaign.

Big time. Pace was never really his biggest attribute but he's reading, anticipation and positional awareness were second to nobody against Scotland. That augurs well for another campaign.

[backstothewall]

Big time. Pace was never really his biggest attribute but he's reading, anticipation and positional awareness were second to nobody against Scotland. That augurs well for another campaign.

Now we have a real disagreement.

He was never lightning fast, but i remember him having a decent turn of pace for a guy his size. I feel that the grabbing, holding and shirt pulling (that has always been part of his game) is becoming more pronounced, and more likely to be noticed by referees, as he slows down.

And then there's the issue of having an orderly handover. We have a couple of decent games coming up. Better to have it happen now than in a years time (still potentially in the run in to a major championship).

[DeLorean]

I wouldn't make the mistake of calling the Georgia game handy. The only handy game we ever had against them was a friendly, never in qualifying and we've played them quite a bit. The handover will take care of itself, we need to play our strongest team in the short term and he's definitely a part of that. Plus, if we were to try to give Clark, Duffy or whoever some game time, they might learn more alongside O'Shea than anybody else.

I think all Ole meant was that he was never overly reliant on his pace like, say, Rio Ferdinand. Obviously he's only going to be getting slower from here on out but his football brain helps compensate for that.

[backstothewall]

I wouldn't make the mistake of calling the Georgia game handy. The only handy game we ever had against them was a friendly, never in qualifying and we've played them quite a bit. The handover will take care of itself, we need to play our strongest team in the short term and he's definitely a part of that. Plus, if we were to try to give Clark, Duffy or whoever some game time, they might learn more alongside O'Shea than anybody else

Hmm. I wouldn't make the mistake of assuming the handover will take care of itself. Take England for example. They struggled in that position when John Terry departed the scene suddenly.

I don't take Georgia lightly, but at the same time it should be a lot easier than Germany. We should be beating them without a lot of fuss.

[DeLorean]

I don't mean it will take care of itself as if it will definitely go swimmingly. I just mean we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Replacing top players with inferior ones is never going to be a smooth process regardless of whether Clark or whoever have a couple of extra matches in preparation. I accept it doesn't matter who plays against Gibraltar, I'd prefer to keep O'Shea free from any potential injury there anyway, but I'd be slow to take any chances against Georgia, we're not scoring many goals so a concession could be fatal. I'd save the bedding in for friendlies and dead rubbers.

Good players retire and they have to be replaced, it's a part of football. What do you think England should have done differently... the likes of Jagielka, Dawson, Cahill, Lescott, etc. were all used fairly often before Terry retired, they're just not as good as him and never will be. Anyway, how did they struggle exactly? They may have had a couple of different combinations, for various reasons, but they conceded four goals in nine qualifying games without him and were unbeaten. I'd take those kind of struggles once O'Shea leaves the scene. Obviously they'd still be better off with him because he's a top player.

[Charlie Darwin]

Vlaar out for four months, should mean more responsibility for Clark when the season gets underway.

[TrapAPony]

Vlaar out for four months, should mean more responsibility for Clark when the season gets underway.

Better again for Clark is that Vlaar doesn't play for Villa anymore. He's a free agent.

[Charlie Darwin]

D'oh! I need to lay off the drugs.

[SwanVsDalton]

With Delph out the door, there's some talk that Clark will be appointed the new captain. Ain't a whole lot of contenders unless Villa were to make a big-ish signing.

[seanfhear]

With Delph out the door, there's some talk that Clark will be appointed the new captain. Ain't a whole lot of contenders unless Villa were to make a big-ish signing.Villa need to buy/produce some good players and probably fast. Delp was probably one of their best players and Benteke is going. They have to replace these players and need some more good players too. Villa are a big club and it would be a pity to see them in the championship.

[backstothewall]

Villa need to buy/produce some good players and probably fast. Delp was probably one of their best players and Benteke is going. They have to replace these players and need some more good players too. Villa are a big club and it would be a pity to see them in the championship.

Villa would be the team I would follow in the English league, thanks to a certain childhood hero playing #5 for them.

If you look at the spine of the team that played in the FA Cup Final, Villa are more or less certain to start next season without Given, Vlaar, Delph, Cleverley and Benteke. There are other good players there who may be able to take on more responsibility, and there have been a few good signings, but Sherwood certainly has a job of work to do.

Mind you, Southampton were faced with something similar last season and look what happened

[Charlie Darwin]

Villa would be the team I would follow in the English league, thanks to a certain childhood hero playing #5 for them.
Shaun Teale?

[BonnieShels]

Shaun Teale?

http://i4.birminghammail.co.uk/incoming/article4282463.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/teale.jpg

At least every couple of years there's some mention of Teale.

And we all need to bask in the glory of that 'tache.

[Charlie Darwin]

http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mWvRSh5yZNPmVJQdKYp-X0w.jpg

[BonnieShels]

*basks*

[backstothewall]

Shaun Teale?

Never gets the credit he deserves, either as a player or for the moustache.

[backstothewall]

If only Big Jack could have found an Irish granny...

[the doc]

If only Big Jack could have found an Irish granny...

Let's be honest Stevie Wonder could of played CB with The Black Pearl alongside him.

To be fair, Teale did well, I remember Big Ron saying that Teale was in with a shout of making the England Squad but his wife ( Who had an even better moutache than Teale) wanted to go on holiday.

[Olé Olé]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/transfer-window/west-brom-to-offer-5m-for-aston-villa-and-ireland-defender-ciaran-clark-reports-31403503.html

Hmmmm. Not quite sure what to make of this. Wherever he gets more game time is best, I guess, and I'd have more faith in a Pulis-led WBA than Sherwood's Villa (minus the players they've lost from last season).

[Bungle]

Good move for him. Pulls is a good manager who will be good for his confidence.

[Olé Olé]

Good move for him. Pulls is a good manager who will be good for his confidence.

I'm thinking the same. He needs a 40 game season and Villa have a spate of centre-halves. One muscle strain and miss two games and you're missing 5 before you know it. Pulis wants him and Damien Delaney looked well under him at Palace. I think it's fair to sya that Clark is better than Delaney and a £5m expense by Pulis is a good sign.

Don't think Clark would push for the move though. He doesn't seem the type and he's been at Villa a while. But if Sherwood entertains the bid, accepts the bid or negotiates then I think Clark should move. Any shadow of doubt from Sherwood with such a stockpile of centre-halves is bad news. Sherwood is the type that likes who he likes (Grealish, Kane, Bentaleb have been beneficiaries). If Clark has that faith then brilliant but otherwise he should go.

[SwanVsDalton]

Sherwood was a big fan of Clark and made him a regular before he got crocked late last season. He might see the money and take it though.

[Olé Olé]

Sherwood was a big fan of Clark and made him a regular before he got crocked late last season. He might see the money and take it though.

Hard to get a trust-worthy centre-half for £5m though. He's not much of a fan if he ditches him for that much, I don't think.

[SwanVsDalton]

Hard to get a trust-worthy centre-half for £5m though. He's not much of a fan if he ditches him for that much, I don't think.

You'd be right, if they take the money and sell but I've seen no indication of that yet.

I'm just pointing out that Clark nailed down his place in the team and Sherwood talked him up big time. He appears keener on him than Baker, and there's some talk of him being flogged to the Championship

[backstothewall]

Thought this might interest a few people.

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-need-sign-ciaran-9730233

[Charlie Darwin]

West Brom about to sign Hull's James Chester for £8m. Should put to bed any talk of Clark moving for half that.

[Charlie Darwin]

New five year deal: http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10265~4911792,00.html

[DeLorean]

That's a serious contract for him, taking him into his 30's. Hopefully Villa can kick on a bit and at least stay clear of any relegation trouble.

[SkStu]

just goes to show that most of the rumours we read/hear about are placed by agents who are just trying to secure a new/better deal for their players. Big bidniz. Yawn.

Good stuff though Clarky!

[backstothewall]

Talk of Baker (who just signed a new deal) going out on a season long loan to Burnley. If that happen's i'd guess Villa will bring someone else in

[Closed Account]

Harshly dropped for Jolean Lescott today.

[DeLorean]

Yeah, delighted to see them concede a few goals.

[Stuttgart88]

Exactly what I was thinking!

[tricky_colour]

I wonder why he was dropped, he tops the stats for Villa so far this season.

http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/24

He is also 14th in the over PL stats, the highest for an Irishman since the 18th century (or so it seems).

Very odd decision and Villa got what they deserved!

[triggsrevenge]

I wonder why he was dropped, he tops the stats for Villa so far this season.

http://www.whoscored.com/Teams/24

He is also 14th in the over PL stats, the highest for an Irishman since the 18th century (or so it seems).

Very odd decision and Villa got what they deserved!



Maybe he just needed the rest after the 2 games? Lescott hadn't much on last week!

[DeLorean]

No nonsense from Clark:

http://giant.gfycat.com/HilariousFakeEarthworm.gif

A bit off topic maybe but there have been a couple of penalty shouts recently that reminded me of my converstaion with CD here (http://foot.ie/threads/141218-Ciaran-Clark?p=1804740&viewfull=1#post1804740), regarding this challenge by Clark. Even though we both agreed it was a perfectly good tackle, I thought he was running a risk in that some referees would go down the 'excessive force' route.

Did anybody see Callum McManaman's 'dive' against Southampton at the weekend? His own manager, Tony Pulis, came out after the game and said, having seen it again, the referee got it spot on and he'll have a word with McManaman about it, that he doesn't want his players diving. The MOTD lads agreed it was a great spot from the referee. I'm not convinced as to how good a 'spot' it was as the referee didn't book McManaman. Maybe he thought the defender got something on the ball and McManaman fell over him. Anyway, I thought it was a stone wall penalty. The defender lunged in, going to ground and McManaman knocked the ball past him. He then basically hurls the defender's tackle so there was no contact but surely his route to the ball had been illegally impeded?

It's a bit like Fabio Grosso going over Lucas Neil in the 2006 WC, the Aussies went nuts but I thought it was a fair shout. In McManaman's case, if he didn't hurl the challenge he could have been seriously hurt and in Grosso's case he would have lost possession and not been awarded a penalty, that I think he was entitled to. Some dives are justified, God knows you'll never get rewarded for trying to stay on your feet.

Next up... and probably more relevant to Clark's above, poor Luke Shaw last night. I thought it was a perfectly good tackle with disasterous consequences. You've got United fans all over social media wanting Moreno hung up somewhere but had Shaw jumped to his feet and got on with the game, like Schlupp above, I don't think anybody would have mentioned another thing about it. There was probably a case for excessive force, but Shaw was after cutting through the middle of the PSV defence and it was a necessary lunge to prevent him getting through on goal. Similarly with Shawcross on Ramsey that time, I can't remember exactly if the tackle was fair or not on that occasion but I definitely didn't think it was a red card offence, but the referee in that case got soaked up by the emotion of the whole thing maybe.

I wonder what the reaction would have been like towards Clark if Schlupp suffered a similar injury after the tackle above?

[Closed Account]

Did anybody see Callum McManaman's 'dive' against Southampton at the weekend? His own manager, Tony Pulis, came out after the game and said, having seen it again, the referee got it spot on and he'll have a word with McManaman about it, that he doesn't want his players diving. The MOTD lads agreed it was a great spot from the referee. I'm not convinced as to how good a 'spot' it was as the referee didn't booked McManaman. Maybe he thought the defender got something on the ball and McManaman fell over him. Anyway, I thought it was a stone wall penalty. The defender lunged in, going to ground and McManaman knocked the ball past him. He then basically hurls the defender's tackle so there was no contact but surely his route to the ball had been illegally impeded?
If the same situation happens out in the middle of the pitch but McManaman hurdles the player, obviously it's not free kick. But I've seen referees warn the sliding player about reckless play. But I always argue that I've every right to slide and try to block the ball, if I don't make contact with the player then no harm, no foul. Same scenario here. McManaman could and should have stayed on his feet. If he trys to jump over the player and a 'dangling' leg catches him, then penalty. That's good play by the forward. But if he does what McManaman does there and dives head first over a challenge, then no penalty and it's the forwards fault. If Pulis is having a word with him, then it should be giving out to him for not winning the penalty. I'm not advocating diving but if the defender is stupid enough to go to ground in the box without making contact with the football then a professional footballer should be able to take advantage.

[Stuttgart88]

I haven't seen the incident but if a defender goes to ground, gets none of the ball and stops the attacker from getting to the ball or retaining the ball, I think the attacker has every right to go down and claim a foul. Remember, there is no mention of contact in the rule book. Carelessness in making a tackle or excessive force in a tackle are what constitutes a foul (I think). Sliding in and missing can constitute carelessness especially when a failed attempt at a tackle has a very detrimental effect on the forward.

[tricky_colour]

Maybe he just needed the rest after the 2 games? Lescott hadn't much on last week!

Yes that did cross my mind, but saw no mention of it in the press.

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-v-west-brom-10068272

Had to feel sorry for Ciaran Clark, though. What did he do wrong to lose his place? Nothing in my eyes, but then again I’m not on the training field every day.

However there was one incident in I think the last match v Georgia where it seemed to me he made a bad defensive decision, although it came to nothing in the end.

[DeLorean]

I haven't seen the incident but if a defender goes to ground, gets none of the ball and stops the attacker from getting to the ball or retaining the ball, I think the attacker has every right to go down and claim a foul. Remember, there is no mention of contact in the rule book. Carelessness in making a tackle or excessive force in a tackle are what constitutes a foul (I think). Sliding in and missing can constitute carelessness especially when a failed attempt at a tackle has a very detrimental effect on the forward.

That's exactly how I would see it. I think JD makes a good point about the defender having the right to slide in anticipation of blocking the ball, but if the attacker outsmarts him i.e. cuts back or knocks it past him or whatever, I think the defender should be penalised if his presence on the ground obstructs the attackers route to the ball. I'd disagree regarding contact being necessary and if it happens on the half way line the same criteria should be applied.

This is the McManaman incident (although it seems to be zoomed or something and missing a bit of the screen). It's actually hard to believe there's no contact from some angles, the final replay is the clearest.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INkWi4wBsRs

[triggsrevenge]

Yes that did cross my mind, but saw no mention of it in the press.

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-v-west-brom-10068272


However there was one incident in I think the last match v Georgia where it seemed to me he made a bad defensive decision, although it came to nothing in the end.


Hopefully he plays against Germany, i think his distribution is far superior to Wilson, just needs a run to cement his place.

[Closed Account]

I haven't seen the incident but if a defender goes to ground, gets none of the ball and stops the attacker from getting to the ball or retaining the ball, I think the attacker has every right to go down and claim a foul. Remember, there is no mention of contact in the rule book. Carelessness in making a tackle or excessive force in a tackle are what constitutes a foul (I think). Sliding in and missing can constitute carelessness especially when a failed attempt at a tackle has a very detrimental effect on the forward.
Agreed also, but there is a fine line. Rightly or wrongly, players have to help the referee make the decision. If you stay on your feet, he'll rarely give it, and almost never in the box. But if you go down too easy, you're giving the referee an excuse not to give it. It's not something I coach to kids but when I'm playing with lads in there late teens/early twenties, especially forwards, I'd take them aside and try to explain it to them. Generally the better players don't need to be told.

[DeLorean]

Clark not even in the Villa squad today. Is he injured? Not ideal before Thursday with Coleman still doubtful. Since he's been dropped for the Lescott/Richards show, Villa have lost three out of three and conceded seven. Hopefully big Jon will add to their woes today.

[tricky_colour]

He was injured.http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-defender-ciaran-clark-10189669


Ciaran Clark (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/all-about/ciaran-clark) is targeting a return to fitness for Aston Villa's (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/all-about/aston-villa-fc) trip to Chelsea in a fortnight's time.
Clark missed the 1-0 Premier League defeat to Stoke at Villa Park with a thigh strain.
Villa boss Tim Sherwood hopes the two-week international break will give the Irish defender time to recover.