Ciaran Clark D Free agent b.1989

[Charlie Darwin]

It's only a three game ban if it's violent conduct or, I think, dissent. A professional foul is a one game ban.

[paul_oshea]

eh dont want to start another one but the txt updates say it was baines who cut back

[boovidge]

Is Clark the new McShane? Lots of initial hype but turns out to be very error prone and erratic?

[the doc]

Is Clark the new McShane? Lots of initial hype but turns out to be very error prone and erratic?

Spot on! That's my assessment too.

Don't think Trap was too happy when Calamity Clark clattered St Ledger in training, which put him out for 3 months.

Apart from the top 6 of the Prem the rest of the clubs and players are no better than in the Championship.

It's just Sky hyping up the Prem every day that makes people believe the Prems something special.

[youngirish]

Apart from the top 6 of the Prem the rest of the clubs and players are no better than in the Championship.



If you really do believe that then you are truly deluded. How do you explain by far the poorest clubs in the Premiership such as Wolves, getting relegated, selling all their best players and still being one of the better if not the best teams in the Championship. That current Wolves team wouldn't be able buy a win in the Premiership this year if they hadn't got relegated.

[geysir]

Any of the promoted teams with a half decent manager, just need to buy a couple of players to enhance their squad and they have a good chance for a few years in the bottom half of the premiership.

[swinfordfc]

Clark is not good enough for the premiership ....... or the Ireland panel! he just too error prone.

[Supreme feet]

Lets not get carried away writing him off. Since Clark has been left out of the squad, he's been championed by the anti-Trappistas as a martyr cause, a la Andy Reid, and held up as a stick to beat Trap with. When Clark inevitably has a bad game for Villa, some people on the other side of the debate will say; 'I told you, he's rubbish. Trap was right.' Neither viewpoint is correct. Clark is a young lad learning the game. Richard Dunne had plenty of howlers for Everton in his formative years, Kenny Cunningham and Gary Breen were knocking around in the lower leagues at Clark's age. I think it's safe to say that Clark has more potential for improvement and career progression than O'Dea, McShane and maybe even St. Ledger. Lets hope Clark learns from the last two games and comes back a better player. We need someone like him to come through.

[DannyInvincible]

I don't think you could really say Clark was rash or anything. He was running across behind Jelavic and his shin inadvertently clicked the attacker's heel. Slightly naive or and poorly-positioned at worst, but certainly not erratic, "lunging in" or whatever picture his detractors wish to paint. Can be seen from 1:02:


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xt1yzm_a1-3e-www-fasthighlights-com_sport

[Murfinator]

Clark is not good enough for the premiership ....... or the Ireland panel! he just too error prone.

Would have to agree, this is his 3rd season now in the Villa first team and the real make or break one. If he fails to establish himself in the poorest Villa talk in the premier league era (which he's on route to doing) then he won't have a future in that league. What's especially alarming about him is that he was considerably better 2 years ago so seems to not be developing at all. Might rebound but needs to do it this season, don't think he'll get any further chances.

[IsMiseSean]

In fairness to Clark, Ron Vlaar isn't exactly the best partner he could have at CB. Villa are a mess, Lambert has a huge job on his hands...

[swinfordfc]

In fairness to Clark, Ron Vlaar isn't exactly the best partner he could have at CB. Villa are a mess, Lambert has a huge job on his hands...

i agree there ...... Baker is the only one of the back 5 at Villa that is performing at present ... long season for Lambert

[Charlie Darwin]

Lets not get carried away writing him off. Since Clark has been left out of the squad, he's been championed by the anti-Trappistas as a martyr cause, a la Andy Reid, and held up as a stick to beat Trap with. When Clark inevitably has a bad game for Villa, some people on the other side of the debate will say; 'I told you, he's rubbish. Trap was right.' Neither viewpoint is correct. Clark is a young lad learning the game. Richard Dunne had plenty of howlers for Everton in his formative years, Kenny Cunningham and Gary Breen were knocking around in the lower leagues at Clark's age. I think it's safe to say that Clark has more potential for improvement and career progression than O'Dea, McShane and maybe even St. Ledger. Lets hope Clark learns from the last two games and comes back a better player. We need someone like him to come through.
Dunne had plenty of howlers for Manchester City too. I think people forget that seven or eight years ago, people would wince if they saw his name on the team sheet. His recent heroic status is just that... recent.


I don't think you could really say Clark was rash or anything. He was running across behind Jelavic and his shin inadvertently clicked the attacker's heel. Slightly naive or and poorly-positioned at worst, but certainly not erratic, "lunging in" or whatever picture his detractors wish to paint. Can be seen from 1:02:


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xt1yzm_a1-3e-www-fasthighlights-com_sport
He put his arm out as well which made the referee's decision very easy. It was barely a nudge but it left the ref with no option.

[geysir]

Generally we do alright with our centre halves regardless of what status they have at their clubs or what status their clubs have.
I didn't see enough of the game to have an opinion on Clark, both central defenders looked out of their depth with little sense of commanding their area.
I'm glad Trap was at the game, probably made his plea to Dunne more (desperately) heartfelt.

Gibson looked the part. I'd like to see a midfield which has Whelan, McCarthy, Gibson and McGeady, - maybe with Doyle in the Samaras role :)

[Olé Olé]

This man is 22 year's of age and he will be top notch, don't doubt him. He's had pressure put his way for the past couple of year's and he has reacted well. Saying he's the next McShane is a joke because Clark has more absolute footballing ability in his baby finger than McShane ever had. He'll be class, wait and see.

[Diarmo]

This man is 22 year's of age and he will be top notch, don't doubt him. He's had pressure put his way for the past couple of year's and he has reacted well. Saying he's the next McShane is a joke because Clark has more absolute footballing ability in his baby finger than McShane ever had. He'll be class, wait and see.

I'm not convinced yet. By his age, O'Dea had kept played against Milan in the Champions League. McShane had MOTM awards at International Level. I really hope Clark develops well, but it's really make or break season.

I really feel he's suffered from never being loaned out at Championship level. He should have had the opportunity to make mistakes at a lower level. Now, he's learning how to defend in front of our eyes. And it's not pretty to watch.

[SwanVsDalton]

Just put Villa in front against Newcastle. Derrick Williams on the bench for this btw.

[theworm2345]

Goal Clark, he stayed forward on an attack, flicked the ball out to the left channel to Bannan, continued his run, and met Bannan's cross from about 5 yards out to head past Krul.

[IsMiseSean]

Just when I dropped him from my fantasy team... FFS!!

[DannyInvincible]

Just when I dropped him from my fantasy team... FFS!!

Same boat. :(

[tetsujin1979]

i got away with it, had a choice between selling him, or selling Rooney, went with Rooney and bought van Persie!

[DannyInvincible]

Clark's goal against Newcastle features:


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xt804y_newcastle-united-1-1-aston-villa-all-goals-highlights-2-9-2012-premier-league_sport

[jbyrne]

Goal Clark, he stayed forward on an attack, flicked the ball out to the left channel to Bannan, continued his run, and met Bannan's cross from about 5 yards out to head past Krul.

by all accounts he had a great game and made the bbc team of the week.

[paul_oshea]

The one thing I'm looking forward to or that I feel relief for is bar Germany ( and its at home at least), we have 2 games which we should win, and a possible draw against the Germans to start the group with 6/7 points hopefully. When the fixtures were being drawn up, if Trap was thinking about the possible retirees or the hangover from a decent Euros showing then he certainly picked the best possible games to start with, 2 games in which one could be a banana skin when the pressure is on (kazakh away) and an easy win away from home, along with a tough opponent at home was brilliant planning. There is no hangover from a decent euros, but its still worked very favourably for us. Which leads to the main point. 6 months is a long time in football. Clark, possibly even duffy and a few more -meyler hopefully- will have matured, gained more first team experience, and have a lot more football behind them, this added to the possibility of another emerging talent, can set us up nicely for the more difficult(i wont say business end i hate that crap talk) games in the group, in a far better situation than if we were to play any of them now.

[elroy]

By easy away win I presume you mean the Faroes - not sure if that place is all that easy anymore. Should win, yes but easy , dont think so.

[paul_oshea]

All respect to the Faroes but we should be beating them both home and away.

[The Fly]

ESPN - Ciaran Clark baffled by Ireland omission (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1154863/aston-villa-defender-ciaran-clark-baffled-by-ireland-omission?cc=5739)

Contrast Clark's attitude with Gibson's.

[elroy]

All respect to the Faroes but we should be beating them both home and away.

Agreed but we should be doing the same to Kazakhstan and look how close we came to losing there.

[SkStu]

ESPN - Ciaran Clark baffled by Ireland omission (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1154863/aston-villa-defender-ciaran-clark-baffled-by-ireland-omission?cc=5739)

Contrast Clark's attitude with Gibson's.

You're not the only one Ciaran. I think you should have been in the Euros squad.

[backstothewall]

ESPN - Ciaran Clark baffled by Ireland omission (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1154863/aston-villa-defender-ciaran-clark-baffled-by-ireland-omission?cc=5739)

He will have his Aston Villa omission to further baffle him before long unless he stops giving goals away. Doesn't deserve to be ahead of O'Dea on form.

[Charlie Darwin]

ESPN - Ciaran Clark baffled by Ireland omission (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1154863/aston-villa-defender-ciaran-clark-baffled-by-ireland-omission?cc=5739)

Contrast Clark's attitude with Gibson's.
Great attitude. Good head on his shoulders, red card at Everton notwithstanding.

[Murfinator]

Dunne, O'Dea, St Ledger and O'Shea are 4 much better CB's than him who've all played solid to very good when called upon. He's made a call of Pearce over him which I wouldn't disagree with strongly either. Pearce had a very good season while Clark continues to be flaky and struggles to hold down a place.

It's great that Clark's been playing this season but calling him a premiership starter while true is misleading:
- It's only been 3 games
- He played badly in 2 of them.
- He may only be playing because Dunne is injured
- He's starting for possibly the worst team in the league on current form.

I think it's very understandable why Clark isn't being called up right now, if he nails down his place long term and delivers form consistently in the one position for a change then he'll be making a stronger claim but no necessarily ahead of any of those I've mentioned. We've a lot of problems in our current side but centre backs is one of our better filled areas, there's no real need for Clark.

[Murfinator]

You're not the only one Ciaran. I think you should have been in the Euros squad.

Instead of who? If you're answering anyone other than O'Dea then you aren't covering the backup requirements necessary for the squad (bearing in mind the JOS injury scare at the time requiring an extra right back in McShane) and if you're answering O'Dea then you're a puzzling individual looking to drop a strong performer throughout the campaign for someone lounging on the bench (covering Midfield no less) for a team in awful form who almost got relegated and just had their manager sacked.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'd have had him in instead of Foley/McShane. And I have probably defended McShane more than anyone else on here.

[Crosby87]

Murf you always have excellent posts.
So has Stu.
One of my favorite intellect battles.

[SkStu]

Instead of who? If you're answering anyone other than O'Dea then you aren't covering the backup requirements necessary for the squad (bearing in mind the JOS injury scare at the time requiring an extra right back in McShane) and if you're answering O'Dea then you're a puzzling individual looking to drop a strong performer throughout the campaign for someone lounging on the bench (covering Midfield no less) for a team in awful form who almost got relegated and just had their manager sacked.

McShane primarily. Green also.

Do i expect everyone to agree with me? No, its just my opinion. I might be bothered to give you my rationale if you address the Wilson absenteeism question that you have ignored repeatedly.

[SkStu]

Murf you always have excellent posts.
So has Stu.
One of my favorite intellect battles.

Thanks...

http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/bf2/378/9fe/resized/chuck-norris-meme-generator-oh-say-what-cd3125.jpg

[elroy]

Its arguable whether Clark should be in the squad. Although starting he hasnt exactly been solid in each game. He is young and should be given time.

However, the bigger point here is the communication point. If you were to look at our pool of players, we probably have 50 or so players(if even) who may be called up.

Is it asking alot for the full time manager to keep in contact with all these players at least a couple of times a year. Let them know that they are within his radar, even suggest improvements. It appears Trap and his backroom team dont possess the greatest man management skills.

[Murfinator]

McShane covers right back back, Clark doesn't. It's not a like for like replacement. If you dropped McShane with JOS already an injury and he didn't recover then you'd have been left with Kelly and no backup RB which would have been a very poor squad choice. Obviously with hindsight it wouldn't have happened but at the time of squad selection JOS and Dunne were both very real injury scares prompting the addition of McShane to cover both.
To keep all bases covered the only person Clark could have replaced (assuming he wasn't going to start) were O'Dea or Green/Gibson. Trap has never played him as a midfielder so as the latter it'd have been a strange decision, as the former Clark didn't merit being ahead of O'Dea. I think it'd have been a poor decision to bring him to the Euro's in light of the cover requirements, personally.

[gastric]

Clark according to this report was very good today. Hopefully Trap was watching.

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/live/match-report/261592/aston-villa-2-swansea-0

[Murfinator]

Was singled out on Sky Sports for a great performance, villa talk not saying much about him praising his partner instead (http://www.villatalk.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=73575&start=0) but a clean sheet is at least a solid performance which is good to see.

Playing consistently and in one position can only be of benefit to him.

[SolitudeRed]

Heard a brief snippet of an interview with Ciaran Clark on Today FM on the way home from work he was saying that he was committed to Ireland and would never turn down a call up despite being out in the cold for a while now so fair play to him for being a bit more mature about it. Maybe Trap does not rate him? or is it more of a disciplinary issue? Its a shame he didn't get a call up for the last friendly given that he is getting a run of games with Villa at the moment which will hopefully aid his development.

[paul_oshea]

trap sees him as a midfielder or full back probably....

[Charlie Darwin]

If Trap saw him as a full back or a midfielder he'd probably have called him up for the last squad. I just think Trap reckons he's too impulsive and inexperienced at this stage of career and he'll get a shot at centre half once he shows a bit more maturity in his game. He's already showing maturity in his attitude towards not being picked so I'd imagine it's only a matter of time.

[paul_oshea]

he played him full back and i thought at the time he made some comment about where he saw him

[Paddy Garcia]

Something wrong if McShane is in the squad ahead of him though

[Charlie Darwin]

McShane isn't in the squad as a centre half. He's in the squad to cover right full and centre half in a dire, dire emergency.

I don't remember Trap saying he saw Clark as a full back, but I think he just played him there for the sake of getting a look at his temperament, and he was fairly unimpressed from what I remember. Clark will get better, he is just not disciplined enough to be a Trap player right now. We saw with Ward's foul in Kazakhstan how easily one moment of impatience can lead to a goal.

[IsMiseSean]

If he stays in the Villa team which I expect he will. Trap might have another look at him against the Greeks

[geysir]

Afair, way back in Clark's 1st season when he was playing regular at CM, Trap claimed Clark was not a midfielder, that his position was at CH.

At least Clark got a person-to-person phone call from Trap, by standards that means he has a high ranking in Trap's thoughts.

[DannyInvincible]

or is it more of a disciplinary issue?

As in a falling out with Trap over some indiscretion? I don't think so. There were murmurings in the media about some issue with Clark a while back but I'm not sure upon what they were based. Trap called Clark personally before naming the Euros squad, as far as I know; I doubt he'd have done that if there was some problem between the two.