Norn Iron rubbish part 23452346526

[third policeman]

Hey GR. You speak with total certainty about what NI fans want and dont want but how do you know? Who asked them and when? It would be really interesting if someone conducted a survey in NI on the issue of a single football team for Ireland. I would not predict the outcome but would not be totally surprised if the result was in favour. But I asume GR that you would not accept the legitimacy of this as it would not be restricted to "proper NI supporters" - ie the people who are by conviction already opposed to it.

Football is now nearly unique in being the only significant support where people from both parts of Ireland dont compete as part of the same team. The result is that we dont qualify for major tournaments and that (as this dabate sadly illustrates) the game is tainted by sectarian sentiment and ludicrous anachronistic hostility! Speaking as someone who has "mixed-heritage" and affinity with both teams, it is a total no brainer!

[jinxy lilywhite]

Id love to see it happen. However NI fans are of a unionist nature. Unionists are sectarian. Therefore NI fans are sectarian. Their fans are against it for bigoted reasons. Im sure i'll get challanged over this but its the truth.

Oh my word that is an unbelievable statement and it is very untrue and very harsh. I think I would be safe to say that you have never been to Northern Ireland or 6 counties depending on your take. Some of the bigoted crap get thrown out at the old landsdowne when rangers players play for opposing countries. Also as well who said that to be Irish you have to support a foreign british club like celtic.
I'd say I have been to NI at least 5 or 10 times every year in my 30 years on earth, and not just in Catholic areas but in some unionist areas. I have only ever got verbally abused once. Now once for me is enough but there is no way I could tarnish their whole population with the bigots and bible bashers. You must remember in NI that the minority seem to be able to voice their views as the majority.

Back to topic: As a southerner I don't want to see an All Ireland team or even an All Ireland league. Fcuk that I like having the border and no matter how some of you see, there are differences between both communities on the island. Some major and some subtle but there are differences. I am proud to be irish as are many unionist of their own heritage but an AIL or an All Ireland team makes a mockery of national rivalry in general. and btw England, Scotland and Wales would have a better case for a United Kingdom team rather than an All Ireland side

[Gather round]

Hey GR. You speak with total certainty about what NI fans want and dont want but how do you know?

Afternoon TP. I've repeated it (by necessity) many times on the thread. NI fans want there to be a NI team, by definition. What the stirrers on this thread are suggesting would see an effective end to that team.


Who asked them and when? It would be really interesting if someone conducted a survey in NI on the issue of a single football team for Ireland

Their affiliation is self-evident, as I explained. As for a poll, I also asked specifically above (I think in reply to the Fly) whether there had been one. I don't share your interest in organising such a poll, but I'll certainly read it if and when it appears.


I would not predict the outcome but would not be totally surprised if the result was in favour. But I asume GR that you would not accept the legitimacy of this as it would not be restricted to "proper NI supporters" - ie the people who are by conviction already opposed to it

You assume wrongly, it's a free country and anyone can organise any public opinion survey they like. Of course such a hypothetical result would be surprising and a bit embarrassing, but to me it would be otherwise irrelevant rather than illegitimate. NI has a team, its fans want that team to continue, RoI fans in NI (like those in Glasgow, Preston or Mansfield) can already support and play for their own team. What's not to like?


Football is now nearly unique in being the only significant support where people from both parts of Ireland dont compete as part of the same team

Yes, so what?

Actually, not invariably so what. Ireland's two best cricketers play for England, its second best golfer wants to represent Britain in the Olympics, as did many other NI competitors in Beijing. Etc. etc.


The result is that we dont qualify for major tournaments

Ha ha. We don't qualify regularly and separately for major tournaments because we

a) don't have a huge pool of potential players to compete with the big five or six

b) continue to drop points to other similarly-sized and ranked teams

c) regularly get embarrassed by the minnows.

I honestly can't see any of that changing just because you have a 6 million population to choose from rather than 4.5 million (which comparison is spurious anyway, given your choice of qualified players from outside Ireland now and for years past.


and that (as this dabate sadly illustrates) the game is tainted by sectarian sentiment and ludicrous anachronistic hostility!

Look, I'd prefer if the sh*t stirrers on this thread weren't being so sectarian, ludicrouys and anachronistic, but they are. So they're getting answered in turn.


Speaking as someone who has "mixed-heritage" and affinity with both teams, it is a total no brainer!

If you want to support both teams, that's great. I don't, but I don't want to abolish yours. I'm sure it'll challenge strongly for a play-off place in Euro 2012.

[Not Brazil]

Hey GR. You speak with total certainty about what NI fans want and dont want but how do you know? Who asked them and when? It would be really interesting if someone conducted a survey in NI on the issue of a single football team for Ireland. I would not predict the outcome but would not be totally surprised if the result was in favour. But I asume GR that you would not accept the legitimacy of this as it would not be restricted to "proper NI supporters" - ie the people who are by conviction already opposed to it.


Players born in Northern Ireland have the right to play for either the ROI or Northern Ireland.

You wish to deny choice, by seeing the fourth oldest Association in world football just throw in the towel.

Sorry - but that isn't happening.

[Fixer82]

there are differences between both communities on the island. Some major and some subtle but there are differences. I am proud to be irish as are many unionist of their own heritage but an AIL or an All Ireland team makes a mockery of national rivalry in general. and btw England, Scotland and Wales would have a better case for a United Kingdom team rather than an All Ireland side

there's also huge differences between someone from Dublin and someone from Connemara but we're still Irish and of this island.

why would England, Scotland, Wales have a better case for a UK team? what ya basing that on?? You are reinforcing the border by not wanting to have anything to do with the northern part of the island. what about people who've spent a lot of time in the north as kids? or all the people in the north who support the republic?

ps KingdomKerry your comments are ill-judged and ill-informed and should be ignored. To say all Unionists are bigoted is just plain silly!!!

[Not Brazil]

why would England, Scotland, Wales have a better case for a UK team? what ya basing that on??


The people of the United Kingdom share a common, singular, Citizenship.

The four "home" countries exist as seperate entities, footballing wise, by dispensation from FIFA.

Some big wigs at FIFA already want to impose a singular UK team - that will be robustly resisted by Northern Ireland fans (and I expect by fans of the other "home" countries too)

[Not Brazil]

what about people who've spent a lot of time in the north as kids? or all the people in the north who support the republic?


What about them?

If they choose to support the Republic, that's fine.

The thing is, you can support who you like.

When people start want to deny choice - some of whom were most vociferous in the "right to choose" debates that surrounded the "Eligibility" issue surrounding Northern Irish born players - it stinks of gross hypocricy.

Why does anyone wish to deny Northern Ireland fans the right to support our International team...about which we are as proud and attached as you are of yours?:confused:

[Fixer82]

Some big wigs at FIFA already want to impose a singular UK team - that will be robustly resisted by Northern Ireland fans (and I expect by fans of the other "home" countries too)

yes but do you really think it's plausible or has a chance of happening?
I wouldnt have thought so.

I dunno, I'd like to see it happening and I think it makes sense, as would I like to see a United Ireland. But if it doesn't ever happen, I'd like to think the fans would have a better relationship with each other in the future. The fact that there are northern Ireland fans on this forum is a good sign of that I suppose

[jinxy lilywhite]

there's also huge differences between someone from Dublin and someone from Connemara but we're still Irish and of this island.

why would England, Scotland, Wales have a better case for a UK team? what ya basing that on?? You are reinforcing the border by not wanting to have anything to do with the northern part of the island. what about people who've spent a lot of time in the north as kids? or all the people in the north who support the republic?

ps KingdomKerry your comments are ill-judged and ill-informed and should be ignored. To say all Unionists are bigoted is just plain silly!!!

There are differences between dubs and folks from Connemara but Connemara folk haven't been living indepent of Dublin for 88 years.

I am reinforcing the border because it is there. There is a border on this island and it has been in place since the inception of this state. Like it or not that is the way it is and it isn't going to change for any time soon.
I do not want to ignore Northern Ireland but they want the same right to self determination as our grandfathers did in 1916 to 1922 (even if it is their national football team) and if that is the express wish of their people then we can't coerce them to do so. We can't say here that we want a united national team and not consult those whose team/players we want to use.

I based the england, scotland, wales, united kingdom team as it is literally one country. since devolution they all have parliaments/assemblies but power is with westminster in London and England, Scotland & Wales don't sit separately in the UN

[Not Brazil]

yes but do you really think it's plausible or has a chance of happening?
I wouldnt have thought so.


The "All UK" team thing keeps rearing it's ugly head at FIFA - I, too, don't think it will happen though.

[Not Brazil]

I dunno, I'd like to see it happening and I think it makes sense, as would I like to see a United Ireland.

The teams will not be merging - your, perfectly legitimate, political aspiration isn't a good reason for it to happen either.

By way of a tip - and, I believe most enlightened thinkers in the Republic Of Ireland know this already - you ain't going to "unite" anything with attitudes like those espoused earlier by KK - the attitude that demonises everything about the very people you claim to wish to be "united" with.

[Fixer82]

There are differences between dubs and folks from Connemara but Connemara folk haven't been living indepent of Dublin for 88 years.

I am reinforcing the border because it is there. There is a border on this island and it has been in place since the inception of this state. Like it or not that is the way it is and it isn't going to change for any time soon.
I do not want to ignore Northern Ireland but they want the same right to self determination as our grandfathers did in 1916 to 1922 (even if it is their national football team) and if that is the express wish of their people then we can't coerce them to do so. We can't say here that we want a united national team and not consult those whose team/players we want to use.

I based the england, scotland, wales, united kingdom team as it is literally one country. since devolution they all have parliaments/assemblies but power is with westminster in London and England, Scotland & Wales don't sit separately in the UN

well the border is no longer physically there. the realationship between the two states has never been better!

Self-determination was not the express will of the majority until after the British gerrymandered the border to ensure more Loyalists than Republicans/nationalists were within the borders

nobody ever mentioned not consulting the players/assocation we want to merge with. that would be ludicrous and unjust.

and yes you are right, Northern Ireland is a state within the country of Great Britain. unfortunately. In the words of Tony Benn: an artificial state....

que angry coments from my northern cousins :eek:

[antrimgreen]

What about them?

If they choose to support the Republic, that's fine.

The thing is, you can support who you like.

When people start want to deny choice - some of whom were most vociferous in the "right to choose" debates that surrounded the "Eligibility" issue surrounding Northern Irish born players - it stinks of gross hypocricy.

Why does anyone wish to deny Northern Ireland fans the right to support our International team...about which we are as proud and attached as you are of yours?:confused:

Because as an all Ireland team we stand a greater chance of qualification and seeing Irish Men play on the international stage more often (hopefully). It would be a positive step in the direction of peace and reconciliation for the people living in Ireland. That's my 2 cents!!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Have you heard of google?

So No link exists?
Heh.

[Not Brazil]

Because as an all Ireland team we stand a greater chance of qualification and seeing Irish Men play on the international stage more often (hopefully). It would be a positive step in the direction of peace and reconciliation for the people living in Ireland. That's my 2 cents!!

Who is "we"?:confused:

Seeking the destruction of an International team, representing the fourth oldest Association in the world - a proud Association - and it's passionate supporters a team is the way to peace and reconciliation is it? Fcuk me - you're deluded.

How's about respecting choices, and diversity - live and let live?

Would that not be more helpful?

[Predator]

Ha ha. We don't qualify regularly and separately for major tournaments because we

a) don't have a huge pool of potential players to compete with the big five or six

b) continue to drop points to other similarly-sized and ranked teams

c) regularly get embarrassed by the minnows.

I honestly can't see any of that changing just because you have a 6 million population to choose from rather than 4.5 million (which comparison is spurious anyway, given your choice of qualified players from outside Ireland now and for years past.
I reckon that our chances would increase as one team. Look back over the years at the two respective teams and hypothesise a combined team. Surely we'd be better?

I'm wholly aware that you're diametrically opposed to such a thing happening and without prompting your '**** stirrer' tag, I'm sure you can see the possible sporting advantages of having one team, GR?

[Not Brazil]

and yes you are right, Northern Ireland is a state within the country of Great Britain.

Actually, he's not right.

Northern Ireland is an integral part of the United Kingdom - consisting of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

[Not Brazil]

So No link exists?
Heh.

Don't be silly AB - if you cannot find numerous links to British Citizenship laws online, I'm not going to teach you.:rolleyes:

[ArdeeBhoy]

Look in certain respects, and I'm sure their soccer team is the tip of the iceberg, these people only really want to say 'No', 'Never' or 'Not Interested', such is the general siege mentality.

However it would be funny if Britain were to abandon them, which would be the logical thing to do, given what a drain they've been on their resources ever since its creation....

[seanfhear]

It would be better to scrap the FAI and the IFA.

They certainly have not done much for the development of football on the Island of Ireland.

Certain individuals have their own fiefdoms in the respective FAs and will have to have their fiefdoms prized from their granite grip.

It will probably happen but to say when would be an ambitious statement.

[livehead1]

Northern Ireland is an integral part of the United Kingdom

Is it? I've lived in England for over 20 years and I can honestly say my friends, peers colleagues etc, none of them give a flying Fcuk and couldn't care less about the north. You're deluded if you think otherwise!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Don't be silly AB - if you cannot find numerous links to British Citizenship laws online, I'm not going to teach you.

It's because there's hundreds and you seem so sure of yourself....
:rolleyes:

[Not Brazil]

I reckon that our chances would increase as one team. Look back over the years at the two respective teams and hypothesise a combined team. Surely we'd be better?

I'm wholly aware that you're diametrically opposed to such a thing happening and without prompting your '**** stirrer' tag, I'm sure you can see the possible sporting advantages of having one team, GR?

If it's all about increasing chances, many Northern Ireland fans would be chomping at the bit for an "All UK" team - we're not.

[antrimgreen]

Who is "we"?:confused:

Seeking the destruction of an International team, representing the fourth oldest Association in the world - a proud Association - and it's passionate supporters a team is the way to peace and reconciliation is it? Fcuk me - you're deluded.

How's about respecting choices, and diversity - live and let live?

Would that not be more helpful?

Me and you and all the other people gathered on this small island. It's not a case of live and let live, it's a case of let's live together. I understand your mentality, it fears change which for me is a sign of insecurity. To protect the proud Assocaiation, sure we can keep the name you have IFA no problem ;)

[Not Brazil]

Is it? I've lived in England for over 20 years and I can honestly say my friends, peers colleagues etc, none of them give a flying Fcuk and couldn't care less about the north. You're deluded if you think otherwise!

Whether your friends, peers, colleagues "give a fcuk" or not, is immaterial.

Conversely, I have plenty of friends, peers, and colleagues who are English, and they do "give a fcuk" about "the North". Ditto - immaterial.

[Not Brazil]

However it would be funny if Britain were to abandon them, which would be the logical thing to do, given what a drain they've been on their resources ever since its creation....

It might be "funny", but it won't be happening.

The people of Northern Ireland have won, and ring-fenced, the right to self determination - I refer you to the Belfast Agreement 1998.

[Not Brazil]

Me and you and all the other people gathered on this small island. It's not a case of live and let live, it's a case of let's live together. I understand your mentality, it fears change which for me is a sign of insecurity. To protect the proud Assocaiation, sure we can keep the name you have IFA no problem ;)

I have no fear of change, and feel absolutely secure.

[Not Brazil]

It's because there's hundreds and you seem so sure of yourself....
:rolleyes:

Yes - I have an ability to read the laws of the land.:rolleyes:

[boovidge]

It might be "funny", but it won't be happening.

The people of Northern Ireland have won, and ring-fenced, the right to self determination - I refer you to the Belfast Agreement 1998.

Surely self-determination goes both ways though? What if the Scots or English want independence?

[Not Brazil]

Surely self-determination goes both ways though? What if the Scots or English want independence?

That's a good point, well made.

Don't see that happening anytime soon, to be perfectly blunt.

[newrynyuk]

An FAI/IFA merger will never happen simply because it will entail one set of blazers having to get off the gravy train. How likely would you vote for something which had a 50:50 chance you could lose your job in a merger?

[Fixer82]

An FAI/IFA merger will never happen simply because it will entail one set of blazers having to get off the gravy train. How likely would you vote for something which had a 50:50 chance you could lose your job in a merger?

yep that wouldnt surprise me in the least. I certainly don't think the FAI have the ability to see the bigger picture...

[ArdeeBhoy]

Surely self-determination goes both ways though? What if the Scots or English want independence?

It's only because no-one's ever asked them! Just their 'colonial gene' that stops most English people, ditching Scotland & Wales, not to mention the North, who've all been a net drain on their resources for generations (with the exception of North Sea oil, which was robbed from the Scots by the Brit. establishment in London)!

It's one of the reasons why we should want Scotland to vote for independence and would actually make me favourably disposed towards England if they ditched their other lame ducks.
Then they wouldn't have to worry about carrying them in a GB football team either!
;)

[peadar1987]

Actually there's very strong support up here ins Scotland for independence from London. Scotland already contributes more to the UK than they get back, due to oil, and soon enough half the UK will be powered by Scottish renewables. Financially it makes sense for Scotland to secede, and stop financially supporting the British occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq, the dole money for unemployed miners in Merthyr Tydfil, and transport infrastructure in East Anglia. There's also still a very strong Scottish identity, with a referendum on independence schedules for next year or the year after. Especially if the conservatives (spit!) get voted in down South, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see an independent Scotland by the time London host the Olympics

[boovidge]

English nationalism is growing too. Due to percieved injustices re: devolution and other factors. The British establishment is hostile to English national identity.

I'm not saying the union is going to fall apart anytime soon but the cracks are definitely there.

[JohnB]

Actually there's very strong support up here ins Scotland for independence from London.

Not according to opinion polls; there are surges up and down but support for an independent Scotland hovers at around 30-40%. Recently there's been a drop in support, which is put down to prevailing economic conditions. And votes for the SNP don't correlate with a wish for independence. Overall, it's a very difficult issue to gauge, but rarely do opinion polls indicate a majority of Scots to be in favour of independence, although that may of course change.



Scotland already contributes more to the UK than they get back, due to oil, and soon enough half the UK will be powered by Scottish renewables.

Renewables will most certainly not contribute anything like 50% of the UK's energy requirements, not within the next few decades anyway. Look out though for another controversial development in the NE of Scotland, pushed through by the Scottish government.


Financially it makes sense for Scotland to secede

Emotional issues notwithstanding, there is little reason for Scotland to break away from the rest of the UK. Scotland is unlikely to just walk away with (dwindling) oil reserves. Many financial commentators predict a long period of adjustment for Scotland, resulting in reduced public services. Recent bail-outs of Scottish companies demonstrate the benefit of being part of the UK. etc

[Not Brazil]

I'm not saying the union is going to fall apart anytime soon .

No ****, Shirlock.:D

And...I'll be fighting any notion to destroy the autonomy of, each , the FAW, SFA, FA, and IFA.

Even though, we'd be world beaters together.:)

[peadar1987]

Not according to opinion polls; there are surges up and down but support for an independent Scotland hovers at around 30-40%. Recently there's been a drop in support, which is put down to prevailing economic conditions. And votes for the SNP don't correlate with a wish for independence. Overall, it's a very difficult issue to gauge, but rarely do opinion polls indicate a majority of Scots to be in favour of independence, although that may of course change.

I'd say 30-40% is very strong support. All it takes is one major incident to push that to a majority. There is some serious hatred for the Tories up here, you'll hear it every time you go into a pub, so a Conservative victory in the next election could be the thing that sparks off Scottish independence.



Renewables will most certainly not contribute anything like 50% of the UK's energy requirements, not within the next few decades anyway.

Well the Scottish government have made a commitment to achieve 50% of domestic generation from renewables by 2020, and the overall UK target is 15% in the same time period, with further commitments to renewables planned. Due to several accidents of geography, Scotland has immensely more potential for marine renewables such as wave and tidal stream technology, as well as both onshore and offshore wind.

It's a little-known fact that we only have enough uranium for about another 50 years (In the absence of commercial breeder reactors, anyway), nuclear fusion is still decades, maybe even centuries away, and fossil fuels will last us maybe another 100 years, on a commercial scale anyway. We're going to have to go renewable at some point soon, and when that happens, all of Europe is going to be buying energy from two places: The Atlantic seaboards of Ireland, Scotland, France, Spain and Portugal (Wind, wave and tidal); and Southern Spain, Italy, and the Middle East (solar thermal and PV technology



Look out though for another controversial development in the NE of Scotland, pushed through by the Scottish government.

The Pentland Firth? Or the Aberdeen offshore wind farm? Pentland Firth shouldn't be too controversial, as any turbines installed would be underwater. Any wind turbines are always going to be controversial though.



Emotional issues notwithstanding, there is little reason for Scotland to break away from the rest of the UK. Scotland is unlikely to just walk away with (dwindling) oil reserves. Many financial commentators predict a long period of adjustment for Scotland, resulting in reduced public services. Recent bail-outs of Scottish companies demonstrate the benefit of being part of the UK. etc

I'm no economist, I'm an engineer, specialising in sustainable energy, hence the rant earlier! Presently, the Scottish economy is highly dependent on the whims of OPEC, and also with the large financial sector, on the cycle of booms and recessions. I really do think that renewable energy, and related technologies will come to dominate the Scottish economy over the next 20 to 40 years, giving the country a more stable financial base from which to build.

[ArdeeBhoy]

No ****, Shirlock.:D

And...I'll be fighting any notion to destroy the autonomy of, each , the FAW, SFA, FA, and IFA.

Even though, we'd be world beaters together.

It's ' 'Sherlock ;)

You'd hardly be 'world beaters' though, as it'd be mainly 'Ingleland'....

What about the IFA & the FAI ??

[The Fly]

It's ' 'Sherlock ;)

You'd hardly be 'world beaters' though, as it'd be mainly 'Ingleland'....

What about the IFA & the FAI ??

It's 'Engerland' ;)

[Gather round]

In the words of Tony Benn: an artificial state

Er, all states are artificial. Unlesss you think they emerged fully-formed from the promordial soup, like.


Because as an all Ireland team we stand a greater chance of qualification and seeing Irish Men play on the international stage more often (hopefully)

Ha ha. Reality suggests otherwise; at a stroke you'd be cutting Irish involvement by 50%, while the likelihood of the replacement team qualifying would barely increase, if at all. Remind me the last time that the merged Yugoslavia had two teams in the World Cup finals?


I'm sure you can see the possible sporting advantages of having one team, GR?

See immediately above.


It would be better to scrap the FAI and the IFA

I'd prefer IFA to be reformed with better administration and more accountability to fans. FAI can take their own advice from their own fans etc.


I've lived in England for over 20 years and I can honestly say my friends, peers colleagues etc, none of them give a flying Fcuk and couldn't care less about the north. You're deluded if you think otherwise!

Er, so what? NB wasn't commenting on what your mates in Nottingham think, always assuming he knows all of them.


I understand your mentality, it fears change which for me is a sign of insecurity

Who fears change? I'm sure all the NI supporters on this thread (and most generally) would agree that the IFA needs to be improved as I suggested above.


What if the Scots or English want independence?

The Scots may well vote for it at some point in the future. I imagine that will have effects on England, Wales and NI, but it's all a bit hypothetical right now?


An FAI/IFA merger will never happen simply because it will entail one set of blazers having to get off the gravy train. How likely would you vote for something which had a 50:50 chance you could lose your job in a merger?

Agreed it won't happen, although it won't be "simply" for the reason you suggest.


I certainly don't think the FAI have the ability to see the bigger picture...

Were that so, they'd be likely to do what you want? I think they see the bigger picture only too well, pandering to trolls on the internet and elsewhere isn't part of it.


Scotland already contributes more to the UK than they get back, due to oil, and soon enough half the UK will be powered by Scottish renewables. Financially it makes sense for Scotland to secede, and stop inancially supporting the British occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq, the dole money for unemployed miners in Merthyr Tydfil, and transport
infrastructure in East Anglia

Not sure about your economics there, Peadar. Scotland doesn't 'own' all the oil- the infrastructure, investment and expertise to extract comes from the rest of the country and beyond. See link below- if the oil revenues are allocated per capita across Britain as a whole, as opposed to just in Scotland (and what would then stop Aberdeen declaring independence in its stead ;)), there's a big fat deficit for the Scottish government.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2009/06/18101733/9



I wouldn't be at all surprised to see an independent Scotland by the time London host the Olympics

There's more likelihood of Scotland winning Euro 2012. A link on William Hill's site (undated, but from 2008) suggests odds of 150/1 against. Out of curiosity I've emailed them to ask for an update.

[Predator]

Ha ha. Reality suggests otherwise; at a stroke you'd be cutting Irish involvement by 50%, while the likelihood of the replacement team qualifying would barely increase, if at all. Remind me the last time that the merged Yugoslavia had two teams in the World Cup finals?

How do you mean 'Irish involvement'? Management wise?

I assume you're talking about Slovenia and Serbia, who have both qualified for South Africa? Fair point.

RE Yugoslavia teams though, from Wiki:


The national team participated in eight World Cups (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_World_Cup), four Euros (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Football_Championship), and won the Olympic Games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Games) football tournament in the 1960 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_Summer_Olympics) (they also finished second three times and third once). The under-21 team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslavia_national_under-21_football_team) won the inaugural (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_U-21_Championship_1978) UEFA U-21 Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Under-21_Football_Championship) in 1978.
The Yugoslav under-20 team won the FIFA World Youth Championship 1987 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_World_Youth_Championship_1987).

Arguably, the Yugoslavia teams were stronger as one and the same could arguably be said for the Soviet Union teams, though Russia and Ukraine have done fairly well recently, albeit that they have massive populations compared to us. I still think our chances would be better as one, the 'reality' does not state otherwise. That is of course, not to say that we won't be able to do well independently of each other - we've both qualified for World Cups in the past.

[Fixer82]

'Irish involvement'? surely that would be everybody involved. And i would imagine the best players would be picked, regardless of what part of the island they're from....Pick the best 23 out of the whole pool

[boovidge]

The Scots may well vote for it at some point in the future. I imagine that will have effects on England, Wales and NI, but it's all a bit hypothetical right now?

I understand it's all hypothetical but it's not exactly in the realms of fantasy that Scots independence would throw up serious questions about Northern Ireland's future. I only mentioned it because NB seemed to be saying that N.I were part of the UK whether the rest of the union wanted them or not.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Aye, but that'd be far too logical for them Fixer.

If it works for cricket, hockey and rugby(League & Union) amongst others, we should at least try it.
Though given the amount of stubborn paranoia on show form certain quarters, maybe it should be just tried for either friendly games or competitive ones.

Personally I'd prefer the latter. The North will probably never qualify for a finals again, unless it's :rolleyes: 32 teams, whilst we have our own major problems in this respect, not withstanding the incompetence of the FIFA muppets and cheating Frenchmen!

A combined team should just be enough to squeak us over the line....

[ArdeeBhoy]

NB seemed to be saying that N.I were part of the UK whether the rest of the union wanted them or not.


Apart from certain types of 'Ingleland' & Rangers fans plus their mates in the BNP, there's no great enthusiam for them in mainland Britain as numerous polls have reported over the last few decades.
Though to be fair to the North, it's fallen off the relative news agenda with the lessening of the Troubles and greater outrages involving the British state elsewhere....but it should be noted that the parallel agendas still exist there.

[Metrostars]

The people of the United Kingdom share a common, singular, Citizenship.

The four "home" countries exist as seperate entities, footballing wise, by dispensation from FIFA.

Some big wigs at FIFA already want to impose a singular UK team - that will be robustly resisted by Northern Ireland fans (and I expect by fans of the other "home" countries too)

But why should England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland get special dispensation? And it should not be the case of "well it's always been this way". Look at the Czech Republic/Slovakia, Yugoslavia etc.

I live in Connecticut. If set up the CFA and get if approved by FIFA, can I create my Connecticut team to compete in Concacaf?

[boovidge]

Apart from certain types of 'Ingleland' & Rangers fans plus their mates in the BNP, there's no great enthusiam for them in mainland Britain as numerous polls have reported over the last few decades.
Though to be fair to the North, it's fallen off the relative news agenda with the lessening of the Troubles and greater outrages involving the British state elsewhere....but it should be noted that the parallel agendas still exist there.

Just seen that opinion polls consistently show only around 1/4 of the public in Britain think N.I should be in the UK.

Metrostars, the reason why the UK has 4 teams is that the game was invented there and the first international fixtures were between England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales. I think it's fair enough personally.

[Riddickcule]

Actually there's very strong support up here ins Scotland for independence from London. Scotland already contributes more to the UK than they get back, due to oil, and soon enough half the UK will be powered by Scottish renewables. Financially it makes sense for Scotland to secede, and stop financially supporting the British occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq, the dole money for unemployed miners in Merthyr Tydfil, and transport infrastructure in East Anglia. There's also still a very strong Scottish identity, with a referendum on independence schedules for next year or the year after. Especially if the conservatives (spit!) get voted in down South, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see an independent Scotland by the time London host the Olympics
Spot on peader, exactly what i think, i think this COULD trigger NI seceding also, which would leave them no choice really but to unify.

Well, they wouldn't have to unify, be pretty daft not to though

[ArdeeBhoy]

But why should England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland get special dispensation? And it should not be the case of "well it's always been this way". Look at the Czech Republic/Slovakia, Yugoslavia etc.

I live in Connecticut. If set up the CFA and get if approved by FIFA, can I create my Connecticut team to compete in Concacaf?

That was the point way up thread I made to NB, way over his head, about London or Yorkshire or Cork starting their own teams....which are as logical as a certain other side!
;)

As for the 'tradition' argument, have some miniscule sympathy.
But ultimately you can really only allow one dispensation, which would have to be for the English as the oldest FA.
Perhaps there should be a combined Welsh/Scots/North team;a sort of 'GB rejects' team, for want of a better name.