Norn Iron rubbish part 23452346526

[Not Brazil]

So what. You're naive if you think that's how it is in reality. Whatever your beloved passport regulations of your beloved Brits say.
You definitely need to get out more though. Or do you do a side gig for the Brits Passport Office?
;)

Once again, you appear to be "irrationally obsessed" about Passports.

I'm not talking about Passports, I'm talking about Citizenship.

I don't think I'm at all "naive" in having a basic understanding of both British and Irish Citizenship laws - perhaps it's you who needs to gain a basic understanding of these matters?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Passports, citizens whatever. You're the people who brought up this tedious debate, due to your own insecurities about identity which you want to share 'ad nauseum' with the rest of us.


Why not just do the usual instead and get a tattoo? Rather than boring the rest of us rigid about your crummy little team and the various machinations to become a 'member' of it.

[Not Brazil]

Passports, citizens whatever. You're the people who brought up this tedious debate, due to your own insecurities about identity which you want to share 'ad nauseum' with the rest of us.


Why not just do the usual instead and get a tattoo? Rather than boring the rest of us rigid about your crummy little team and the various machinations to become a 'member' of it.

I think the thread was started with the premise that our "crummy little team" shouldn't exist.

I can assure you, that, personally, I have absolutely no "insecurities" about my identity. I know exactly what my identity is - inspite of people telling me how I should identify.

What's with your, bizarre, tattoo comment?:confused: Are tattoos outlawed in the Republic Of Ireland?

Edit:

I've answered my own question on tattoos - the answer is, evidently not!

http://www.thespoiler.co.uk/index.php/2009/03/04/robbie-keane-gets-a-tattoo

[ArdeeBhoy]

Well it's clearly very personal to you. And best kept under wraps!

Oh and it's Ireland;you keep telling us you're :rolleyes: 'Irish'.
Amnesia seems very prevalent in that part of the world....

[Not Brazil]

Well it's clearly very personal to you. And best kept under wraps!

Oh and it's Ireland;you keep telling us you're :rolleyes: 'Irish'.
Amnesia seems very prevalent in that part of the world....

Seriously, what are you on about?:confused:

Of course I'm Irish.

[ArdeeBhoy]

So you keep telling us. But it's rather dull you keep repeating.

[Acornvilla]

Everybody shut up!!!!!!!!

[Fixer82]

Can you not see what all this is doing to Acornvilla???

[The Fly]

Sorry Fly, you haven't. You've repeated how dense I am, without much reference to anything I've said here let alone any detailed explanation. You raised, for example, the d'Hondt system and Edmund Burke's theories on the slowness of political change. I don't actually disagree with much of your analysis of them; they're just irrelevant to an argument about why the NI team should be abolished. It just looks like shoehorning in a slew of random facts, just for the sake of it.


Apologies for the late reply.

Your reply to my post (#736) is very strange. I have thoroughly explained my posts, entirely for your benefit! The many other contributors to this thread have grasped them quite easily.

The protracted 'discussion' between you and I, within this thread, centred on the reply I gave to NB's post (#591, page 30), which stated -
"For those who oppose the place called Northern Ireland, they can elect to play for the FAI team, and support it's representative sides."

I posted in response;
"Those fans/players don't have a sense of statehood/national identity with Northern Ireland. It is big leap in 'logic' to suggest that they also, by extension, oppose it's existance." (#634, page 32)

You stated, in response to the above, that;
"Hardly. It follows from the tangible evidence that hundreds of thousands of people in Northern Ireland who don't 'identify' with it (probably the majority of them) demonstrate that lack of identity by by voting in every election for parties whose main political program is that, er Northern Ireland shouldn't exist. Do keep up." (#656, page 33)

I will repeat, again, that your above statement points to degree of stupidity on your part. I also notice that you have failed to retract it.

In my last post I asked you to - "clarify how you would expect the nationalist population of NI, and indeed the entire electorate of NI, to demonstrate their 'Northern Irish' identity."
No reply was forthcoming.

In my last post I also asked you to - "explain how the SDLP's main political program, either in the past or at present, is that NI should not exist. Were all those years under John Hume merely a front, masking his true intentions?"
No reply was forthcoming.

Each of my replies to your posts, quoted yours in their near entirety. This is in contrast to your own 'highly selective' quoting of people's posts, which I'm sure many foot.ie members have had to endure. My posts did not contain within them any particularly intricate pieces of wisdom, merely reportage of fact. The denseness I infer in you stems from your complete inability to grasp these facts and indeed your own singular interpretation of them.

I know that the 'discussion' between you and I had nothing to do with "an argument about why the NI team should be abolished." But then, surely, you know that - or are did you just become desperate.

You wrote that it looks like I'm....."shoehorning in a slew of random facts, just for the sake of it."
No, just for your sake, sadly - to no avail.
Oh well!






I'm actually quite flattered at your obsessive interest in where I live and how often I post. As I'm sure most others on the thread realise, they're largely irrelevant. If you diasagree with what I say, just reply to it. To correct a few points- I've been reading and contributing to OWC since it started (as a mailing list) in 1999 I think. Similarly, on foot.ie since September 2003. I've used various names- including my real name originally- changing for various reasons including OWC regularly needing re-registration as it moved to larger servers, and a ban from foot.ie when a row about Luis Aragones and racism at Spanish international games got out of hand. OWC doesn't tend to feature threads about the NI side being abolished; they get deleted (I zapped one or two when I was a moderator myself some time back). Unfortunately, this thread on foot.ie is just the latest in a depressingly predictable series. They all say basically the same thing: 'let's take over the Nordies even though their team's rubbish and the fans a bunch of orange bigots'. I see the mods have renamed this one to reflect its predictability.


In my last post I stated that you;
"joined OWC on the 2nd of April, 2005. In this time you have posted 298 times. You joined foot.ie in April 2006, in this time you have posted 589 times - almost twice as much in considerably less time! OWC contains many more threads on the NI v ROI theme than foot.ie does, yet you are not compelled to post with the anyhere near the regularity with which you do here. This tells it's own story!"
You claimed, in an earlier post, that..."the pressure of answering the same witless wind-up 60 times on this thread hasn't dimmed my faculties."
As you mentioned wind-ups, I posted the above. I felt it necessary to remind you, and to point out to others, that since the inception of your current membership on each respective site, you have posted nearly twice as much on foot.ie than you have on your own supporters website (with the player eligibility row being within this time). Again, this tells it's own story, and is in the very least - suggestive.

Suggestive of what I wonder?.........hmmm.........;)

[The Fly]

but the terms 'Taigs' & 'beggars' are common-place on that MB.


Again, apologies for the late reply.

I know this has already been covered, but just for the record - I have been a member of said MB (OWC) for some time and whilst I am not a regular poster, I have never come across the term 'Taigs' being used.

[ArdeeBhoy]

You did indeed TF.
Will PM you when I have time.

[Gather round]

Your reply to my post (#736) is very strange. I have thoroughly explained my posts, entirely for your benefit!

That's kind of you, but not particularly helpful I'm afraid. They still don't make sense.


I will repeat, again, that your above statement points to degree of stupidity on your part. I also notice that you have failed to retract it

I'm neither stupid nor needing to retract anything.


In my last post I asked you to - "clarify how you would expect the nationalist population of NI, and indeed the entire electorate of NI, to demonstrate their 'Northern Irish' identity." No reply was forthcoming

Have one now. The electorate can express their identity as they see fit; if 90% of the turnout in every election is for single issue unionist or nationalist parties, then I assume, quite reasonably, that those are the parties they feel comfortable with. Plenty of other parties exist, including those from Britain and the Republic.


In my last post I also asked you to - "explain how the SDLP's main political program, either in the past or at present, is that NI should not exist. Were all those years under John Hume merely a front, masking his true intentions?" No reply was forthcoming

The SDLP's main political program is for a united Ireland. It has no unionist support, no real claim to be cross-community. Hume made no attempt to hide his intentions. That's not to denigrate his long-term efforts at reconciliation and the peace process; the same can be said of many single-issue unionist politicians.

Apologies if I failed to answer every single question in your previous posts. They were rather repetitive.


Each of my replies to your posts, quoted yours in their near entirety. This is in contrast to your own 'highly selective' quoting of people's posts, which I'm sure many foot.ie members have had to endure

Don't be so precious, nobody had to endure anything. Reading this forum is voluntary, like. I selectively quote the relevant parts that I want to answer..


My posts did not contain within them any particularly intricate pieces of wisdom, merely reportage of fact

Some fact, some irrelevance, some cod-psychology, some opinion unsupported by evidence.


The denseness I infer in you stems from your complete inability to grasp these facts and indeed your own singular interpretation of them

Infer what you like. I've grasped everything you've said, however garbled much of it is.


I know that the 'discussion' between you and I had nothing to do with "an argument about why the NI team should be abolished." But then, surely, you know that - or are did you just become desperate

Sure, I knew it; I asked you to stick to the point; neither suggests desperation.


Again, this tells it's own story, and is in the very least - suggestive. Suggestive of what I wonder?.........hmmm.........

Suggestive that when there's a thread on foot.ie saying 'let's abolish the NI team', I come on it and suggest 'let's not'? I mean, it's quite straightforward.

[Acornvilla]

reading this thread will be the death of me.... and yes i will continue to read it so go away with your smart arse replies or i'll counter with a 5.000 word power point presentation

[ArdeeBhoy]

That's kind of you, but not particularly hlpful I'm afraid. They still don't make sense.


I'm neither stupid nor needing to retract anything.


Have one now. The electorate can express their identity as they see fit; if 90% of the turnout in every election is for single issue unionist or nationalist parties, then I assume, quite reasonably, that those are the parties they feel comfortable with. Plenty of other parties exist, including those from Britain and the Republic.



The SDLP's main political program is for a united Ireland. It has no unionist support, no real claim to be cross-community. Hume made no attempt to hide his intentions. That's not to denigrate his long-term efforts at reconciliation and the peace process; the same can be said of many single-issue unionist politicians.

Apologies if I failed to answer every single question in your previous posts. They were rather repetitive.


Don't be so precious, nobody had to endure anything. Reading this forum is voluntary, like. I selectively quote the relevant parts that I want to answer..



Some fact, some irrelevance, some cod-psychology, some opinion unsupported by evidence.



Infer what you like. I've grasped everything you've said, however garbled much of it is.



Sure, I knew it; I asked you to stick to the point; neither suggests desperation.



Suggestive that when there's a thread on foot.ie saying 'let's abolish the NI team', I come on it and suggest 'let's not'? I mean, it's quite straightforward.

The Fly is Right.
And Yes, it's tedious repetitive hypocritical Drivel

The trouble is when you engage with these sort of people, all they try to do is is to indulge in their tedious self-righteous whataboutery.
Under the excuse of 'talking' about 'their' football team.
When around 90% of their other fans, wouldn't even dignify us (luckily!) with their time!

And Yes, have met plenty of them!

Suppose they have plenty of other reasons to be paranoid, they just don't get worked up about the Ireland football team?

[EalingGreen]

The Fly is Right.
And Yes, it's tedious repetitive hypocritical Drivel

The trouble is when you engage with these sort of people, all they try to do is is to indulge in their tedious self-righteous whataboutery.
Under the excuse of 'talking' about 'their' football team.
When around 90% of their other fans, wouldn't even dignify us (luckily!) with their time!

And Yes, have met plenty of them!

Suppose they have plenty of other reasons to be paranoid, they just don't get worked up about the Ireland football team?

Blah, blah, cliche, more blah, stereotype, blah, rant, blah, yet more blah etc etc.....

Why is it that those ROI fans who proclaim most loudly that they want to be "united" with the NI team are invariably those who most despise NI fans and our team etc, whilst those ROI fans (a majority, in my experience) who are best-disposed towards us, are invariably the least bothered by any talk of a single Irish team?
Indeed, I have good reason to believe that even at the very highest levels of the FAI, there is no interest in combining the two teams...
(And when I say "no interest", I do not mean a fear on the part of a few "blazers" that they would lose their positions etc, but just that - no interest!)

[Den Perry]

How ? Tbh, Amhran na bhFiann is an embarrasment.

why is it an embarrasment?

[Den Perry]

And about the same number of countries (9) dominate world football. Brazil, Italy, Germany = New Zealand, S. Africa & Australia. USA is ranked 14 at the moment! Quality not quantity. Football, like rugby has no Asian presence.

I do agree though that Ireland's Call is an embarrassment. The sentiment is right, but the execution is s**te.

I stated that rugby was played to a high level by about 9 countries,not dominated by nine countries. Realistically each of those 9 have a chance of beating one another. The gap to the other nations is huge. In football, far more countries play it to a high level. It may be dominated by those mentioned above, but there are far more countries competitive in soccer than Rugby

[janeymac]

That's all a bit hypothetical. Even if it had gone to court, there's a good chance they'd have thrown it out- the Law ignores trivia.

Democratic societies don't regard it as trivia. That is why there is a list of basic human rights, that countries/states sign up to. As a matter of interest, why do you think the Parades Commission in NI was set up in the first place.


Not only would they have needed to have got lost between Dublin and
Liverpool- but also fail to spot the difference between an east- and west-facing coastline. Maybe the Luftwaffe crew forgot their compass that night?

I take it you were never a boy scout then - if you were you would surely have learned that a compass is useless if you get disorientated and don't know where you are (which is very easy to do in mist/cloud/darkness). More recently you may have heard of the Search & Rescue helicopter that crashed into a sand dune at night in Waterford because the pilot couldn't make out the difference between the ground and the sky in the mist & darkness.

[janeymac]

he could - but won't.

Very proud Northern Irish family, the Evans

Just as well they are (bearing in mind what happened to Neil Lennon when he said he would like to play for a UI team).

[seanfhear]

reading this thread will be the death of me.... and yes i will continue to read it so go away with your smart arse replies or i'll counter with a 5.000 word power point presentation
Stop reading this thread now.

There must be some sadists that will satisfy this pain fetish that you have.

If there was an all-Ireland debating team some of this lot would certainly wear down the opposition.

It would be a case of everyone else saying "Yes We Surrender."

Just stop going on and on..........................:p

[The Bunk]

In my last post I stated that you;
"joined OWC on the 2nd of April, 2005. In this time you have posted 298 times. You joined foot.ie in April 2006, in this time you have posted 589 times - almost twice as much in considerably less time! OWC contains many more threads on the NI v ROI theme than foot.ie does, yet you are not compelled to post with the anyhere near the regularity with which you do here. This tells it's own story!"
You claimed, in an earlier post, that..."the pressure of answering the same witless wind-up 60 times on this thread hasn't dimmed my faculties."
As you mentioned wind-ups, I posted the above. I felt it necessary to remind you, and to point out to others, that since the inception of your current membership on each respective site, you have posted nearly twice as much on foot.ie than you have on your own supporters website (with the player eligibility row being within this time). Again, this tells it's own story, and is in the very least - suggestive.

Suggestive of what I wonder?.........hmmm.........;)


.......a WUM!

[Not Brazil]

Just as well they are (bearing in mind what happened to Neil Lennon when he said he would like to play for a UI team).

Any young cub born in Northern Ireland is quite free to declare for the All Ireland team that represents the FAI nowadays.

[Wolfie]

Any young cub born in Northern Ireland is quite free to declare for the All Ireland team that represents the FAI nowadays.

That's not Tiger Woods is it? Never knew he was born in Wee Iron.

[EalingGreen]

I stated that rugby was played to a high level by about 9 countries,not dominated by nine countries. Realistically each of those 9 have a chance of beating one another. The gap to the other nations is huge. In football, far more countries play it to a high level. It may be dominated by those mentioned above, but there are far more countries competitive in soccer than Rugby
Getting way off the subject, I know, but this thread appears (finally!) to have just about run its course with, in typical Irish fashion, both sides probably claiming "victory"!

Anyhow, your post reminded me of a conversation I once has with a drunken and charmless (Boer) South African who was spouting off in a pub to all who would listen (plus those who wouldn't) about how much "better" rugby was than football.

The wind was somewhat taken out of his sails when I asked him to tell me in how many of the countries of the world is rugby the "national" (i.e. No.1) sport, in terms of participation and popularity etc.

He tried the obvious one - Wales. I pointed out that football has many more teams and registered players than rugby, covers the whole of the country rather than just a few valleys in South Wales and that even when playing in the lower tiers of their respective code, the football clubs in the three largest cities (Cardiff, Swansea and Wrexham) invariably attract larger crowds than their rugby counterparts, who play in the top level of their code.

Next he tried France; when I pointed out that rugby wasn't even 2nd (i.e. behind football and cycling, for instance) and then only a niche/regional sport, he had to concur.

He had no better luck with his own country, though it hurt him sorely to admit that rugby there is still primarily the sport of choice of a small minority of South Africans, whose skin colour invariably more resembles that of FW Du Klerk than that of Nelson Mandela!

He then made a desultory case for Australia, even England, before conceding that rugby union is only the No.1 sport in New Zealand - a country of 4 million people and 10 million sheep - and a few scenic, but nonetheless isolated and sparsely populated specks in the South Pacific.

P.S. When you say that the top nine countries have a realistic even chance of beating each other etc, that is not actually true. For if you look at the playing records of the Test Nations, there are far fewer upsets in rugby than in football.
Taking Ireland, for example, how many times have they beaten New Zealand in the last 100-odd years? Or how do you explain one Grand Slam in the last 60 years, when that achievement entails winning four/five games in succession, with at least two of them always being against no-hopers (presently Italy and Scotland), and every other year two of the toughest three games (England and France) being at home?
As against that, "minor" countries like Uruguay or Sweden have won/reached the finals of the World Cup of football, or Denmark and Greece have been European Champions, from over 200 (50) countries who play the game, most of them as their "national sport".

[Scram]

We can no longer compete with the giants of European football. There is no way with the size of the ROI we can be putting our hopes of competing in major tournaments down to playoffs with the likes of France. We dont have the players. When O'Shea went off injured yesterday my first reaction was "**** Me, are we really that bad". Being able to draw on the likes of Johnny Evans, George McCartney, Chris Baird.. etc. We just arent deep enough. Smaller European nations have caught up in their development of players over the past 15 years. There are no easy ties in International football anymore. If we want to have better chances to compete in World Cups and European Championships Id say this is really our only option. I look at our current squad and I would say that after our next campaign we are fooked. We have no Robbie Keanes, Duffs, Givens, or even players of Dunne's caliber coming through.

I imagine this will get some reaction and would be very complicated but I would be for it except I couldnt have that blue nose pr1ck Kyle Lafferty in the squad!!!

What do you think.

I agree re. Kyle Lafferty!!

What’s the anthem, Ireland’s Call ??

[Gather round]

Democratic societies don't regard it as trivia. That is why there is a list of basic human rights, that countries/states sign up to

I know why there's a list of basic human rights and what they are. They don't include or mention eligibility for football teams.


As a matter of interest, why do you think the Parades Commission in NI was set up in the first place

As a compromise to letting the Police and other local authorities monitor parades?


I take it you were never a boy scout then

No, although I was in the Boys' Brigade while at primary school. Thanks for the tips and other detail, but they don't really answer the point- that it's not really credible that the Luftwaffe bombed Dublin accidentally because they mistook it for Belfast, Liverpool or anywhere else in Britain.


Just as well they are

They are, everyone knows they are. Stop stirring.


.......a WUM!

Thanks for that, great analysis. Read the thread and you'll see I (like the other NI fans on it) have replied to the same old rubbish posted by others.

[dantheman]

Do you really want loyalist knuckledraggers following your team. I don't!


Any young cub born in Northern Ireland is quite free to declare for the All Ireland team that represents the FAI nowadays.
Indeed, and once the IFA drop their silly opposition to this we can all move on, and leave the NI team to be supported by fans of the Unionist persuasion who don't like hard questions asked of them.

NI nationalists are free to play for, and support, the ROI in a fantastic new UEFA 5-star stadium in a sectarian-free environment. Unlike that pitch, surrounded by 5 sheds, 100 miles up the road.

Landsdowne Road - 5 stars (and an upcoming UEFA final)
Windsor Park - 5 sheds (and a burger van)

[gustavo]

Do you really want loyalist knuckledraggers following your team. I don't!


Indeed, and once the IFA drop their silly opposition to this we can all move on, and leave the NI team to be supported by fans of the Unionist persuasion who don't like hard questions asked of them.

NI nationalists are free to play for, and support, the ROI in a fantastic new UEFA 5-star stadium in a sectarian-free environment. Unlike that pitch, surrounded by 5 sheds, 100 miles up the road.

Landsdowne Road - 5 stars (and an upcoming UEFA final)
Windsor Park - 5 sheds (and a burger van)
Well done on totally missing the point

[Riddickcule]

why is it an embarrasment?
Because no-one knows the words, it's a joke.

[EalingGreen]

Do you really want loyalist knuckledraggers following your team. I don't!


Indeed, and once the IFA drop their silly opposition to this we can all move on, and leave the NI team to be supported by fans of the Unionist persuasion who don't like hard questions asked of them.


Ah, I see you're still here and (presumably) following the thread. In which case, I have a question for you which ought not to be too "hard".

Namely, when you first entered this debate with a lengthy post, you seemed to be inspired by having been reading OWC, where you particularly noted a post by me which was taking the p iss out of the Thierry Henry situation etc.

You then went on to accuse me of being a hypocrite, on the basis of my complaining that this Board/its members were not "objective".

Yet when I pointed out that I had claimed no such thing (I had expressed reservations about the objectivity of some recent moderation), you have consistently ignored it, even at the third (fourth?) time of asking.

So are you going to retract* your entirely baseless allegation? Or are you going to continue to "drag your feet" [sic], even though it demonstrates that when it comes to it, you lack the basic integrity normally demanded by Message Boards like this, to maintain a civilised and tolerant standard of debate?


* - I've long since given up hope of an apology...:(

[Gather round]

Do you really want loyalist knuckledraggers following your team. I don't!

You don't have any now, you've no realistic likelihood of attracting any in the future, so what's the problem (apart from the minority of cartoon provo knuckledraggers who already support you, obviously)?


Indeed, and once the IFA drop their silly opposition to this we can all move on, and leave the NI team to be supported by fans of the Unionist persuasion who don't like hard questions asked of them

We have moved on, but there's still a need for some sort of local agreement between the IFA and FAI. I notice you don't answer the suggestion of a deal where neither selects adult players who've already appeared for the other.

All the questions you've asked on this thread (actually, the same question over and over again) have been answered. They haven't been particularly difficult.


the ROI in a fantastic new UEFA 5-star stadium in a sectarian-free environment. Unlike that pitch, surrounded by 5 sheds, 100 miles up the road. Landsdowne Road - 5 stars (and an upcoming UEFA final) Windsor Park - 5 sheds (and a burger van)

We're quite happy with the non-sectarian environment at Windsor, whose facilities will be perfectly adequate after refurb (although fair point about the burgers). Congratulations on your new stadium, although here's a tip- it doesn't guarantee qualification, or even that you'll necessarily beat any of the top teams in it.

[Den Perry]

Because no-one knows the words, it's a joke.


what are you talking about? no - one knows the words? You are being very disrespectful

[osarusan]

Do you really want loyalist knuckledraggers following your team. I don't!


Indeed, and once the IFA drop their silly opposition to this we can all move on, and leave the NI team to be supported by fans of the Unionist persuasion who don't like hard questions asked of them.

NI nationalists are free to play for, and support, the ROI in a fantastic new UEFA 5-star stadium in a sectarian-free environment. Unlike that pitch, surrounded by 5 sheds, 100 miles up the road.

Landsdowne Road - 5 stars (and an upcoming UEFA final)
Windsor Park - 5 sheds (and a burger van)

It didn't take you long to move from posts which were reasonable and civil to stupid insults.

EDIT : Any chance the thread might be locked? Whatever debate was had is long gone, and has been replaced by garbage.

[dantheman]

It didn't take you long to move from posts which were reasonable and civil to stupid insults.

EDIT : Any chance the thread might be locked? Whatever debate was had is long gone, and has been replaced by garbage.

Ah dear I was only having a joke ffs. I thought the 5 sheds was a good one! Considering the lack of humour on this thread, I was only trying to build bridges.

EG by the way I'm sorry.
Sorry you can't see past the end of your nose. If you could you'd see I, like you (and your "NI fans"), am not in favour of an AI team. So rest easy and get back to your poetry!!

[Predator]

I'll be sad to see this thread go. :(

The standards obviously took a massive nosedive when one of the mods changed the name (who was it!? :p).

I'll no doubt have the opportunity to rejoice when it is resurrected in future though.

[The Fly]

That's kind of you, but not particularly helpful I'm afraid. They still don't make sense.


.....only to you!




I'm neither stupid nor needing to retract anything.


You are entitled to believe in whatever takes your fancy, I have never stated anything to the contrary. From reading your exchanges with myself and others, I have no expectation that you would retract anything you have stated - no matter how obtuse!
On the stupidity.........that has already been displayed for all to see.




Have one now. The electorate can express their identity as they see fit; if 90% of the turnout in every election is for single issue unionist or nationalist parties, then I assume, quite reasonably, that those are the parties they feel comfortable with. Plenty of other parties exist, including those from Britain and the Republic.


You have a response, not an answer.
You inferred that those voters who vote for either SDLP or SF, display their opposition to the 'existance of Northern Ireland' by doing so.
Once again you have failed to answer the question posed -
""clarify how you would expect the nationalist population of NI, and indeed the entire electorate of NI, to demonstrate their 'Northern Irish' identity."
Which party's 'main political program', as you put it, is 'Northern Irish' nationalism. You cite parties from Britain and the Republic - do they present this platform to the electorate.



The SDLP's main political program is for a united Ireland. It has no unionist support, no real claim to be cross-community. Hume made no attempt to hide his intentions. That's not to denigrate his long-term efforts at reconciliation and the peace process; the same can be said of many single-issue unionist politicians.


The SDLP's 'main political program' throughout the last 40 years has been peace and reconciliation.



Apologies if I failed to answer every single question in your previous posts. They were rather repetitive.


Where you are concerned one has two options; to ignore, or to copy and paste.



Don't be so precious, nobody had to endure anything. Reading this forum is voluntary, like. I selectively quote the relevant parts that I want to answer..


If people choose option one: to ignore, then you are right - they haven't had to endure anything. With option number two, considerable endurance is required.




Some fact, some irrelevance, some cod-psychology, some opinion unsupported by evidence.


All fact.



Infer what you like. I've grasped everything you've said, however garbled much of it is.


You, and you alone, have grasped very little indeed.




Sure, I knew it; I asked you to stick to the point; neither suggests desperation.


It suggests a denseness on your part.




Suggestive that when there's a thread on foot.ie saying 'let's abolish the NI team', I come on it and suggest 'let's not'? I mean, it's quite straightforward.

It's suggestive of being a WUM.
Issues concerning football in Northern Ireland, and indeed the NI international side itself, are dealt with comprehensively on OWC. They don't occupy alot of your time, relative to the amount spent on foot.ie.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Another top post by The Fly;Generally, him & yer man Dan are the only people who're talking any recent sense in this thread.
Oh and a certain other gent, occasionally when he loses the fascination with the citizenship issue which is rather tedious!

[EalingGreen]

EG by the way I'm sorry.
Sorry you can't see past the end of your nose. If you could you'd see I, like you (and your "NI fans"), am not in favour of an AI team. So rest easy and get back to your poetry!!It was nothing to do with whether you are in favour of a single Irish team or not.
Rather, my issue with you is that you falsely accused me of being a "hypocrite", on the basis of your misreading of one of my posts.
Yet when I point this out to you, you refuse even to acknowledge your error, never mind retract and/or apologise, resorting instead to sarcasm and deflection.
You know, you can get all the "Thanks" you like from your new chum Ardee Bhoy (as if that is any testimonial!), but your lack of integrity remains on the record for all to see.

Pathetic.

[EalingGreen]

I'll be sad to see this thread go. :(

The standards obviously took a massive nosedive when one of the mods changed the name (who was it!? :p).

I'll no doubt have the opportunity to rejoice when it is resurrected in future though.

Don't worry, Predator. The Mods can keep it in abeyance until the next poor sap thinks: "Wouldn't it be grand if we all got together in one team - sure we'd bate the whole world and all..."

And so ad infinitum, adding 50 pages here, 50 pages there, until the only people left to contribute are Ardee Oul Bhoy, DanTheOulMan, and maybe even the World's Longest-Living Fly, as they mutually congratulate themselves on their cleverness and debating skills.

Meanwhile, if we are spared, GR, NB and myself and others will just get on with watching our team, with an open invitation to yourself, Gspain, Osarusan and all the rest to come and join us, any time you feel like it.

[ArdeeBhoy]

You know, you can get all the "Thanks" you like from your new chum Ardee Bhoy (as if that is any testimonial!), but your lack of integrity remains on the record for all to see.

You feeling left out EG?

To be fair you were talking relative sense elsewhere, until you :rolleyes: reverted to a past self, in a thread you said you weren't even going to contribute to!!
;)

And as you see, one of

your 'countrymen', inevitably took up the baton....

[Gather round]

You inferred that those voters who vote for either SDLP or SF, display their opposition to the 'existance of Northern Ireland' by doing so

Got it in one, Einstein. The SDLP's first priority (of the 20 listed on the front page of their official site) is a united Ireland. Which does rather suggest opposition to the existence of Northern Ireland, like. Sinn Fein's position is similar, I'll not bother cutting and pasting that one.


Once again you have failed to answer the question posed , "clarify how you would expect the nationalist population of NI, and indeed the entire electorate of NI, to demonstrate their 'Northern Irish' identity". Which party's 'main political program', as you put it, is 'Northern Irish' nationalism. You cite parties from Britain and the Republic - do they present this platform to the electorate?

I've already answered the question perfectly clearly. I expect nationalist voters to continue to vote for the big two nationalist parties, as they have done for decades. They have a choice to organise in, influence the local policy of, and vote for plenty of other parties, and prefer not to. I judge them by what they do, it's quite simple really.


It's suggestive of being a WUM. Issues concerning football in Northern Ireland, and indeed the NI international side itself, are dealt with comprehensively on OWC. They don't occupy alot of your time, relative to the amount spent on foot.ie

Are you quite obsessive? Like the other NI fans on this thread- and on foot.ie generally- I respond to (often repetitive and sometimes incoherent) posts by others. Look there for your wind-up. And honestly, no-one else cares what proportion of my posts, or yours, or anybody's, are on which website.

[third policeman]

And so ad infinitum, adding 50 pages here, 50 pages there, until the only people left to contribute are Ardee Oul Bhoy, DanTheOulMan, and maybe even the World's Longest-Living Fly, as they mutually congratulate themselves on their cleverness and debating skills.

Meanwhile, if we are spared, GR, NB and myself and others will just get on with watching our team, with an open invitation to yourself, Gspain, Osarusan and all the rest to come and join us, any time you feel like it.

With due respect its mainly yourself and GR that have kept this thread "alive." Wonder you have any time or energy left to expend on your NI team. What's the score with Worthington abandoning ship and heading off to Sheffield Wednesday? Pity you cant find a manager with as much commitment to the cause as your good self.

[EalingGreen]

With due respect its mainly yourself and GR that have kept this thread "alive." Wonder you have any time or energy left to expend on your NI team. What's the score with Worthington abandoning ship and heading off to Sheffield Wednesday? Pity you cant find a manager with as much commitment to the cause as your good self.
It's quite simple, really.

If people attack my team, I'll defend it.

When they stop attacking it, I'll stop defending it.

It's what football fans the world over tend to do.

As for my "energy" for the NI team - in case you haven't noticed, there's not a lot going on at the moment.

As for the risk of our losing NW, I would be sad to see him go, since I think he's done a reasonable job with the 1st team, and an excellent job below that level.

But I do not kid myself as to the attractions (or otherwise) of the NI manager's job. For the past decade or two have clearly proven that international management is no longer the pinnacle for any ambitious manager to aspire to - the clubs hold the whip hand, now.

Therefore, unless an Association can somehow pay "over the odds" to secure their man (eg Eriksson, Capello), then most other countries will have to accept that they must appoint either young, middle-ranking managers who will ultimately use international football as a "stepping stone" (eg Mark Hughes or Alec McLeish) or senior managers who see a nice, well-paid international post as a cushy, pre-retirement sinecure (eg Big Jack, Trapattoni).

Failing that, they could take a chance on a novice (or relative novice) and risk him turning out to be useless (eg McIlroy, Staunton).

Still, that's the way it is. In my nearly 40 years of following NI, I have seen managers come and go. If I manage to buck the odds and make it to another 40 years (possible though unlikely), I'm confident that regardless of who's in charge, I'll at least still have a team to follow, same as I've always had.

IFA - Original and (George) Best!

[The Fly]

Got it in one, Einstein. The SDLP's first priority (of the 20 listed on the front page of their official site) is a united Ireland. Which does rather suggest opposition to the existence of Northern Ireland, like. Sinn Fein's position is similar, I'll not bother cutting and pasting that one.


All those years under John Hume's stewardship, and voters were really, singularly, voting SDLP for a united Ireland?
Don't answer.




I've already answered the question perfectly clearly. I expect nationalist voters to continue to vote for the big two nationalist parties, as they have done for decades. They have a choice to organise in, influence the local policy of, and vote for plenty of other parties, and prefer not to. I judge them by what they do, it's quite simple really.


What they do, i.e how they vote, is done in the context of an abnormal society. The comparison you drew earlier with the political system in Britain does not hold.

The other options have only appeared on the horizon as NI society has become more normalised. These other options, in the form of Fianna Fail and the Tories, are at an embryonic stage whilst Northern Ireland has yet to produce it's own internally.
Why?.....well we all know the reason.




Are you quite obsessive? Like the other NI fans on this thread- and on foot.ie generally- I respond to (often repetitive and sometimes incoherent) posts by others. Look there for your wind-up. And honestly, no-one else cares what proportion of my posts, or yours, or anybody's, are on which website.

No, I'm just pointing out to you, and to anyone interested, how often you post on each site. It's a bit odd. One would expect a 'fan' to post much more on their own supporters website than on that of a rival, as shown by the two most prominent NI supporters on foot.ie - Not Brazil and Ealing Green.

--------------

Option one has become irresistible.

[The Fly]

Don't worry, Predator. The Mods can keep it in abeyance until the next poor sap thinks: "Wouldn't it be grand if we all got together in one team - sure we'd bate the whole world and all..."

And so ad infinitum, adding 50 pages here, 50 pages there, until the only people left to contribute are Ardee Oul Bhoy, DanTheOulMan, and maybe even the World's Longest-Living Fly, as they mutually congratulate themselves on their cleverness and debating skills.

Meanwhile, if we are spared, GR, NB and myself and others will just get on with watching our team, with an open invitation to yourself, Gspain, Osarusan and all the rest to come and join us, any time you feel like it.

You're welcome to your opinion of course EG, but just to be technically correct, could you show me where I have congratulated the two members you mention, or indeed anyone for that matter, on their 'cleverness and debating skills.'
(by which, I assume you mean a liberal use of the thanks button)

[Riddickcule]

what are you talking about? no - one knows the words? You are being very disrespectful
:eek:

Patriotism is overrated, i couldn't give a f*** if it was disrespectful.

In a crowd of 70,000 about 5,000 will know the words.It's a joke.End of.

[ArdeeBhoy]

It's quite simple, really.

If people attack my team, I'll defend it.

When they stop attacking it, I'll stop defending it.

It's what football fans the world over tend to do.

Or you could do what the 'thousands' of your fans have chosen to do. And ignore this self-indulgent whinging completely!
;)



As for my "energy" for the NI team - in case you haven't noticed, there's not a lot going on at the moment
Except
for the risk of our losing NW, I would be sad to see him go, since I think he's done a reasonable job with the 1st team, and an excellent job below that level.


Surely this would be more of an issue with your fanbase, than a few pundits or fans suggesting an AI team and then hundreds of posts by an embittered few saying this will never happen.
One each would have of sufficed.

It's not as If we'd ever get a 'Right of reply' on a reciprocal MB, such is the paranoia!
:eek:

[dantheman]

Don't worry, Predator. The Mods can keep it in abeyance until the next poor sap thinks: "Wouldn't it be grand if we all got together in one team - sure we'd bate the whole world and all..."

Dear oh dear. Hold on here a second. This started off as a thread about whether the FAI and IFA should merge. Despite the fact that on this issue I am in agreement with you and the other uber/proper "NI fans" on this issue about not wanting the two teams to unify again, which would be at odds with my political beliefs, I get slaughtered for pointing out the legitimate reasons why, and MOST northern nationalists, do not support the NI team.

Even if there were a UI in the morning, just as in the UK now, there could be an argument for still retaining the separate NI team. I also agree than an all UK team is more likely than a UI team for now. This would be great. It is something the FAI should push for, as it would only benefit them with an even stronger de facto all-Ireland team under their control (increased playing pool and free from the policies of the IFA).

It seems that if at some stage in the future, the unionists dominated IFA do change the anthem to something more representative, and stop being the only team in the UK without a representative anthem - not England, the Queen is English of course (although she qualifies for Germany I believe,the reverse of Maik Taylor :D) - they will feel entitled to some praise for this monumental effort. Just like their business partners, Linfield, for slowly reversing their sectarian signing policies. Wow. Where is that medal?
Ironically should nationalists residents of NI, for whom the team is supposed/alleged to be representative, point out any failings in the policies of the IFA (and blind eye turned by far too many of the fans), then they are castigated as being provos and the like.
It seems is not their business to be involved in any decisions like that! Just the present day unionist board. Sorry, I forgot about that one "RC" that slipped the net. :rolleyes:
So you can indeed be a "NI fan", if you accept all the baggage unqestioningly. Which was my point


And so ad infinitum, adding 50 pages here, 50 pages there, until the only people left to contribute are Ardee Oul Bhoy, DanTheOulMan, and maybe even the World's Longest-Living Fly, as they mutually congratulate themselves on their cleverness and debating skills.
You really did go to debating schoool with Jim Allishter. If you scan the posts properly you'll see that myself and Ardeebhoy are not in agreement on everything. In fact, we don't even agree on the main point of this topic (merging the two associations).
The Fly has thanked me a grand sum of 0 times, and I have indeed been thinked by that well-known republican Not Brazil. Not that I lose any sleep over this. There is no pan-nationalist front here, calm down lad!


Meanwhile, if we are spared, GR, NB and myself and others will just get on with watching our team, with an open invitation to yourself, Gspain, Osarusan and all the rest to come and join us, any time you feel like it.
Why are you inviting "foreigners" (by your definition) to watch your team over the head over nationalists from NI.
Shouldn't you be building bridges in your own community first? Is that not a lack of integrity in itself, only inviting those who agree with you?
Stop poaching fans!!

Anyway best of luck to NI in the Euro qualifiers, whoever manages them. I hope both they and the Republic qualify, unless they meet in a playoff (unlikely), in which case I'll be for the Republic.


On an aside, good weekend for the Irish provinces in the rugby but especially my team, Ulster. Proud of the lads <insert big green smily face>:D

[ArdeeBhoy]

:eek:

Patriotism is overrated, couldn't give a f*** if it was disrespectful.

In a crowd of 70,000 about 5,000 will know the words.It's a joke.End of.

Actually you're wrong. About 70-80% minimum at least, are :rolleyes: mouthing the words.
Away from Ireland games, no-one, unless they suffer from amnesia, has an excuse for not learning at school. Or they could even use the Internet....

[Riddickcule]

Actually you're wrong.

Of course i'm wrong, it wouldn't be foot.ie then would it ?