Norn Iron rubbish part 23452346526

[ArdeeBhoy]

Get yourself excess.:rolleyes:

Yes, I would be very uncomfortable with the term - as would the Moderators on "that MB" if it was used in a vitriolic way.

I'm not trying to "re-educate" anyone. I have a respect for difference - something you appear to be, sadly, lacking.

Furthermore, I dedicate a lot of my time away from messageboards doing my (small) bit to fight sectarianism. If you want to call that "re-educating" my "fellow fans", that's fine.

I've had manys a "private" chat with some regular ROI supporters who post here, who hold different views entirely to me. Guess what, I respect them, but they show me similar respect, and don't set out to insult.

Ah, get out the violins will you.

My issue with that MB is the level of casual intolerance on there, contrary to your views on here. That's why any decent person would not respect such 'difference'.

But acknowledge your attempts to 'change' the outlook of some.

[Not Brazil]

My issue with that MB is the level of casual intolerance on there, contrary to your views on here. That's why any decent person would not respect such 'difference'.


What, exactly, do you mean by "casual intolerance"?

Do you honestly believe that YOUR intolerance for difference, will help you ever acheive your (legitimate) aspirations?:eek:

Do you see the irony of you making up stories about the term "taigs" being regularly used in a derogatory fashion on a message board you state you cannot access, and labellling a whole group of people "paranoid"?:eek:

[ArdeeBhoy]

What, exactly, do you mean by "casual intolerance"?

Do you honestly believe that YOUR intolerance for difference, will help you ever acheive your (legitimate) aspirations?

Do you see the irony of you making up stories about the term "taigs" being regularly used in a derogatory fashion on a message board you state you cannot excess, and labellling a whole group of people "paranoid"?

As it's written. And yes, am intolerant of their intolerance. As anyone should be.

And it's not made up;but it's more about the hypocrisy and what it represents. Though calling 'everyone' paranoid is a little strong, maybe they're just odd. Which I'm not intolerant of, except when it inevitably impacts on others.

[geysir]

I don't see that as any different from the RoI's 'come on you boys in green' identity expressed in song?

You do not see any difference to the "stand up for the Ulstermen" chant?

Taken in context with all the trappings, the indications are that it is a team followed primarily by the Protestant/Unionist people.
The SUFTU and Ulster til I die, Union jacks, God Save the Queen does not intimidate but will not inspire a Catholic/nationalist to feel that it is their team.
I haven't met a Nationalist from the North who feels bitter rivalry towards the Republic's team, unlike some of ye :)
The fans at Windsor Pk express themselves in a robust positive manner and may that continue.

[Not Brazil]

As it's written. And yes, am intolerant of their intolerance. As anyone should be.

And it's not made up;but it's more about the hypocrisy and what it represents. Though calling 'everyone' paranoid is a little strong, maybe they're just odd. Which I'm not intolerant of, except when it inevitably impacts on others.

Do you not think it's a little hypocritical of you to wax lyrical about intolerance, when throughout this thread you have displayed traits of intolerance towards Northern Ireland, Northern Ireland fans, Unionists generally, and the IFA?

Can you conceive that others, with a different viewpoint to you, might consider you "odd"?

[Not Brazil]

The SUFTU and Ulster til I die, Union jacks, God Save the Queen does not intimidate but will not inspire a Catholic/nationalist to feel that it is their team.


Perhaps "Catholic/nationists" are more inspired by SUFTBIG, SUIYHTB, Ireland til I die, Tricolours, Amhrán na bhFiann, A Nation once again, The Fields etc?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Do you not think it's a little hypocritical of you to wax lyrical about intolerance, when throughout this thread you have displayed traits of intolerance towards Northern Ireland, Northern Ireland fans, Unionists generally, and the IFA?

Can you conceive that others, with a different viewpoint to you, might consider you "odd"?

Maybe because certain parts of those august bodies are inherantly intolerant in their make-up and historical background.
Though appreciate not all parts, or that they're not amenable to some degree of 'change'. But the parts of it that aren't, don't leave the rest of us with the most, er, positive impression.

If that makes anyone 'odd', so be it.

[Not Brazil]

Maybe because certain parts of those august bodies are inherantly intolerant in their make-up and historical background.
Though appreciate not all parts, or that they're not amenable to some degree of 'change'. But the parts of it that aren't, don't leave the rest of us with the most, er, positive impression.
If that makes anyone 'odd', so be it.

Can you appreciate that others may see traits of intolerance in some of the things you hold dear?

By any stretch of the imagination, broad brushing and demonising swathes of people who hold a different opinion to you is bigotry in it's basest form.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ah, the irony. People who complain about intolerance, are now :rolleyes: 'intolerant' and accused of 'bigotry'.

As SLF once said, "Take a look at where you're living...."

[Not Brazil]

Ah, the irony. People who complain about intolerance, are now :rolleyes: 'intolerant' and accused of 'bigotry'.

As SLF once said, "Take a look at where you're living...."

It's people who practice intolerance, as you have done repeatedly on this thread, who stand accussed.

Those who respect difference face no such accussation.

[ArdeeBhoy]

If you say so. If it's 'intolerant' to counter intolerance, wherever it exists, so be it.

[Riddickcule]

Rugby is played to a high level by about 9 countries. One of the World's best teams in soccer would be a far greater status to shout about

in addition, Ireland's Call is an embarrassment
How ? Tbh, Amhran na bhFiann is an embarrasment.

[Not Brazil]

If you say so. If it's 'intolerant' to counter intolerance, wherever it exists, so be it.

I'm a Northern Ireland supporter because I was born in Northern Ireland - not because I'm intolerant.

PS. Wasn't Jake Burns of SLF a big Northern Ireland fan - appearing on TOTP once upon a time in his Northern Ireland shirt? Maybe I'm mistaken.

[EalingGreen]

Is this poo-flinging contest still going on?!
Sure is, Peadar!

Why not pull up a stool and join us? ;)

[EalingGreen]

Are you sure? ;) And how can you back up a statement like that without any hard evidence?

Since for obvious reasons (anthem, flags and other emblems etc!), players from a Protestant/Unionist background are much less likely to make the first approach to the FAI, then the FAI must know that if they are to recruit such players to their team, it must be down to them (FAI) to initiate contact.

Which is not to say that the FAI would decline if so approached (I'm sure they wouldn't), but it must surely be salient that (to my knowledge), every* single NI-born player who has represented ROI, or trained with them, or disclosed that he has been approached by the FAI but declined, has been from a Catholic/Nationalist background.

"If it walks like a duck..."

* - The sole exception was Kernaghan, who only approached the FAI after being rejected by the IFA for spurious (imo) reasons. It is safe to say that 20 years on, such an occurrence could/would not happen today.



Tough luck. It was the IFA that brought the eligibility issue to FIFA.So the FAI seeks, and is given, a Gentlemens Agreement that the two Associations should not pick each others players.
Then the FAI unilaterally breaks it.
Then we complain about this through the proper channels (FIFA).
But when FIFA determines, under an idiosyncracy in the ROI's citizenship laws not available to any of the other 207 Member Associations, that the FAI should be allowed to get away with it, it is somehow our fault? :eek:
Fair enough, we accept that we "lost" and we will deal with it (in fact, are dealing with it).
But don't expect us to like it, especially when accused of all sorts by those who broke their word to us in the first place.



You lost. Get over it.
Fcuk Me! An ROI fan dispensing this advice on an ROI fans' website, in the wake of the Henry handball?
Oh the irony...:rolleyes:

[Not Brazil]

I hope Rovers will draw Linfield in the Setanta next year and we have the first proper Irish derby game in 20 years.

I hope there is a Setanta Cup next year.

There's nothing "derby" about Linfield and Rovers.:rolleyes:

[Not Brazil]

But the point being that the songs and emblams had to be banned to start with


What songs and emblems were "banned"?:confused:

[EalingGreen]

but the terms 'Taigs' & 'beggars' are common-place on that MB.I couldn't be arsed responding to the rest of your post, since although self-evidently irrelevant, meretricious garbage, it is also opinion.

However, the above comment about the OurWeeCountry MB is an allegation of fact, which cannot be allowed to go unchallenged.

Re the Beggars tag, some fan use it (inc. myself occasionally), others don't. If anyone wants to know why I do not think that inappropriate per se, then they can pm me, or open a separate thread. (The number "33" might help explain, mind ;))

However, it is quite simply a lie to claim that the term "taig" is even occasionally used, never mind "commonplace".


And only condemned by the silent minorityAnother lie. I happen to know that the Mods clamp down very quickly and firmly on any poster you uses any sectarian epithets, whether against one side or the other.
In fact, I think it is correct to say that they have cause to ban more Loyalist stirrers than Republicans.
Then again, there is an "Uber-Prod" strand of opinion within the football fanbase in NI which considers the OWC website and its members to be "fenian-loving handwringers etc". :rolleyes:
Ironically, I find such dinosaurs have more in common with their counterparts on the Republican* side than they do with anyone else.

P.S. If they are "silent", how do you know they are a "minority"? Or even condemning it?


* - You don't happen to wear a cap, by any chance? And if so, does it fit?

[ifk101]

Since for obvious reasons (anthem, flags and other emblems etc!), players from a Protestant/Unionist background are much less likely to make the first approach to the FAI, then the FAI must know that if they are to recruit such players to their team, it must be down to them (FAI) to initiate contact.

Which is not to say that the FAI would decline if so approached (I'm sure they wouldn't), but it must surely be salient that (to my knowledge), every* single NI-born player who has represented ROI, or trained with them, or disclosed that he has been approached by the FAI but declined, has been from a Catholic/Nationalist background.

"If it walks like a duck..."

* - The sole exception was Kernaghan, who only approached the FAI after being rejected by the IFA for spurious (imo) reasons. It is safe to say that 20 years on, such an occurrence could/would not happen today.

Every single player? Is there some sort of tagging system in place in NI that allows the FAI to quickly catalogue between who's Nationalist, who's Unionist etc etc?

The FAI picks anybody that's good enough and wants to play for us regardless. You know this.


So the FAI seeks, and is given, a Gentlemens Agreement that the two Associations should not pick each others players.
Then the FAI unilaterally breaks it.
Then we complain about this through the proper channels (FIFA).
But when FIFA determines, under an idiosyncracy in the ROI's citizenship laws not available to any of the other 207 Member Associations, that the FAI should be allowed to get away with it, it is somehow our fault? :eek:
Fair enough, we accept that we "lost" and we will deal with it (in fact, are dealing with it).
But don't expect us to like it, especially when accused of all sorts by those who broke their word to us in the first place.

The game has evolved since this supposed Gentleman's Agreement came into existance. You probably were alive when it happened and remember it like yesterday so can you tell us if this supposed Gentleman's Agreement was binding for eternity? And who exactly shoke hands on this agreement?


Fcuk Me! An ROI fan dispensing this advice on an ROI fans' website, in the wake of the Henry handball?
Oh the irony...:rolleyes:

Maybe it was Henry's hand that shoke on the afore mentioned Gentleman's agreement? If so, we obviously couldn't accept the validity of said agreement as we were clearly cheated out of something that's rightfully ours (so to speak). ;)

[EalingGreen]

It's wrong that the IFA president, who is a senior member of the Orange Order, and others who have similar unionist affiliations within the IFA organisation, should be the spokemen for what i want in the future.
Nonsense! It would only be wrong for such people to get involved in the IFA if they allowed their personal opinions to inform the conduct of their official functions.
Otherwise, in the light of eg the present Catholic abuse scandal, it might be considered "wrong" for any senior member of the Catholic church to be involved in running the FAI or GAA etc.
Therefore, if you have any evidence that Kennedy (or others within the IFA) have discriminated against Cathilics/Nationalists etc, you had better either produce it, or retract.

P.S. I am (genuinely) curious to know exactly how "senior" an Orangeman Kennedy is. Can you enlighten me?



The IFA always has been and still is an organisation dominated by Unionists.
Gather Round has already explained the practical reasons why Unionists should make up a majority of the office bearers of the IFA.
However, that should surely only be a problem if, like Kennedy and his Orangeism (above), they use that to discriminate against non-Unionists.
Now notwithstanding that historically, at least one Catholic/Nationalist was elected to the position of President of the IFA, or that the team has had several Catholic managers (including the very first) etc, I accept that in the past the IFA has had a Unionist "slant" to it, and I condemn that.
But if you have any evidence that non-Unionists are presently being discriminated against by the IFA, I would be very pleased to hear it.
Otherwise, I might be tempted to assume that you are an ill-informed stirrer, who may be making things up, perhaps to justify your own disinclination to support fellow Down men like David Healy, when they attempt to represent their/your country on the international stage?

[Not Brazil]

I disagree. The two largest and most successfull clubs from Irelands two largest cities is going to have a spark most other games won't.

The colour scheme will help hype it up no end as well.

Bigger picture NB.

Firstly, I'm doubtful that the Setanta Cup will run next year.

The "colour scheme" will be absolutely no different to a Linfield v Donegal Celtic fixture (which, frankly, didn't cause much of a stir in recent times).

I wouldn't see the game having anything like the "spark" of a big Linfield v Glentoran league fixture.

I doubt it would be any different to Linfield v Shelbourne or St Pats.

Setanta Cup is dying a death, sadly.

[EalingGreen]

Whatever background/ or community Kernaghan comes from is really irrelevant but it does go to show that the FAI will pick anyone with a heartbeat and a pair of football boots regardless of their background.

Tbh, ever since the days of Jack Charlton (and before), that has been so obvious as not to need pointing out!

However, since no team can pick someone who simply does not want to play for them, how far do you think the FAI should go in order to make themselves "acceptable" (attractive) to every Irish man or woman?

You see, I ask this question because my team regularly gets castigated for being "unacceptable" to Northern Nationalists because of its (partisan) anthem and flags etc.

Therefore, as a fan of the ROI team, do you not agree that in order to be consistent, the FAI should replace their own (partisan) anthem and flag etc, so as to be equally acceptable to Northern Unionists?

Or is it only one of the two Irish international football teams which should be required to "jump through hoops" in order to justify their existence?

If nothing else, if there ever were to be a single Irish team, one might expect the new Association to replace all partisan emblems etc, and replace them with something which is entirely acceptable to all.

Or are concepts like equality and fairness only something which apply when you can't get things entirely your own way? I suppose we might ask Thierry Henry? :rolleyes:

P.S. I am not for one moment suggesting that the FAI should replace the SS or Tricolour, merely pointing out the double standards of some of the critics of the IFA etc.

[ArdeeBhoy]

I couldn't be arsed responding to the rest of your post, since although self-evidently irrelevant, meretricious garbage, it is also opinion.

However, the above comment about the OurWeeCountry MB is an allegation of fact, which cannot be allowed to go unchallenged.

Re the Beggars tag, some fan use it (inc. myself occasionally), others don't.
(The number "33" might help explain, mind ;))

However, it is quite simply a lie to claim that the term "taig" is even occasionally used, never mind "commonplace".

Another lie. I happen to know that the Mods clamp down very quickly and firmly on any poster you uses any sectarian epithets, whether against one side or the other.
In fact, I think it is correct to say that they have cause to ban more Loyalist stirrers than Republicans.
Then again, there is an "Uber-Prod" strand of opinion within the football fanbase in NI which considers the OWC website and its members to be "fenian-loving handwringers etc". :rolleyes:
Ironically, I find such dinosaurs have more in common with their counterparts on the Republican side than they do with anyone else.

P.S. If they are "silent", how do you know they are a "minority"? Or even condemning it?


If you say so.
See my answer to NB above.

For all my criticisms, he seems to have a greater grasp of the situation.
Perhaps the 're-education' programme should pick up another potential taker out in W.London??
;)

Anyway, thought you were 'staying out of this thread' ??

[Not Brazil]

The Billy Boys

UDA and UVF flags.

Not sure that "The Billy Boys" was "banned" - it has certainly been "out of favour" amongst the supporters at our games, and would be frowned upon by the vast majority. A lot of these issues are dealt with by way of fans "self policing" themselves. Our stewards would certainly do little or nothing about it - but that's another story.

I would like to think that bans would result for those who would engage in such a ditty at a Northern Ireland game nowadays.

I don't re-call seeing a plethora of either UDA flags or UVF flags at any Northern Ireland game I've attended over 40 years - had there of been, I suspect the rival groupings would have been kicking lumps out of eachother.

[EalingGreen]

The British Associations must keep a whole FIFA department going sorting out their eligibiilty etc. affairs.
Actually, FIFA leaves the four British Associations pretty much to themselves to sort out such "boundary disputes", which they (the four Associations) manage to do quite amicably, by way of freely negotiated and observed agreement.

Of course, such an arrangement can only obtain on the basis that the participants are willing to behave in a respectful and, ahem, "gentlemanly" fashion - something which would probably preclude the FAI ever deciding to renounce their breakaway, and rejoin the IFA...

P.S. If you knew your history, you would be aware that the four British Associations do not "keep a whole FIFA department going"; rather, it was we who kept the entire organisation (FIFA) going, when it faced bankruptcy following WWII (or "The Emergency", as you might better know it)

[Not Brazil]

Therefore, as a fan of the ROI team, do you not agree that in order to be consistent, the FAI should replace their own (partisan) anthem and flag etc, so as to be equally acceptable to Northern Unionists?



EG,

Do you vaguely remember some group of well intended do gooders go on about something like "Building An Ireland Of Equals"?

If I could remember who it was, I'd pop them an email seeking their thoughts on some of the questions you pose.

[Not Brazil]

If you say so.


Well, if you say differently, produce the evidence to support your spurious allegation.:rolleyes:

[gspain]

I think we will have to disagree, but I re-emphasise, serious progress has been made to make the 6 county side more appealing to the Nationlist half of the population. But the point being that the songs and emblams had to be banned to start with



Good for you. I note in recent years though.



I think you will find it has gone on long before the 80's. I agree re 1993, the Ole Ole's were shocked to find a hostile atmosphere and locals who didn't buy into the 'best fans in the world' rubbish.



I have, and I hope Rovers will draw Linfield in the Setanta next year and we have the first proper Irish derby game in 20 years.

I've been going to Windsor since 1988. You would need to go out of your way to be offended now by anything these days and I see the main complaints now centre over GSTQ and Stand Up for the Ulstermen. Although some people will always find a reason to be offended.

Northern Ireland have a team that anyone of any race or religion could go and support. It is simply a group of noisy passionate football fans.

There were certainly problems in the past although they were often blown out of proportion particularly in 1993 hoqwever there were certainly comments and songs that wouldn't be heard and would be totally unacceptable today.

[dr_peepee]

You see, I ask this question because my team regularly gets castigated for being "unacceptable" to Northern Nationalists because of its (partisan) anthem and flags etc.

Therefore, as a fan of the ROI team, do you not agree that in order to be consistent, the FAI should replace their own (partisan) anthem and flag etc, so as to be equally acceptable to Northern Unionists?.


Dude. Seriously??? What has the FAI got to do with Nationalists from Northern Ireland not feeling adequately represented within the IFA (assuming that is the case)? I haven't read every word of every post so I could be quoting you out of context.

[janeymac]

Rugby is played to a high level by about 9 countries. One of the World's best teams in soccer would be a far greater status to shout about

in addition, Ireland's Call is an embarrassment

And about the same number of countries (9) dominate world football. Brazil, Italy, Germany = New Zealand, S. Africa & Australia. USA is ranked 14 at the moment! Quality not quantity. Football, like rugby has no Asian presence.

I do agree though that Ireland's Call is an embarrassment. The sentiment is right, but the execution is s**te.

[EalingGreen]

Every single player? Is there some sort of tagging system in place in NI that allows the FAI to quickly catalogue between who's Nationalist, who's Unionist etc etc?

Of course not - which was why I made sure to qualify my observation with "to the best of my knowledge".

However, if you can supply me with an example of even one NI-born player who may be from a Protestant/Unionist background, who has played for/trained with/been approached by the FAI in the last 20 years, I would be very surprised.

The list of possible candidates now runs well into double figures, so statistically at least, there would be bound to be some (assuming the FAI was tracking all candidates equally).
And since in NI it is often (sadly) possible to discern someones likely background from a few cursory details, if there were many (any?), it would be pretty evident.




The FAI picks anybody that's good enough and wants to play for us regardless. You know this.
Indeed I know it, but that is not what I was getting at (as I suspect you know).
That is, in the past, the IFA has been criticised eg for not being interested in approaching young lads from (Nationalist) Derry, for instance.
What evidence have you that the FAI is interested in approaching youngsters eg from Unionist East Belfast?
Seeing as this area has always been a real hotbed of talent (Blanchflower, Bingham, Best, McIlroy etc), why has there not been even one such player who has appeared on the FAI's radar?




The game has evolved since this supposed Gentleman's Agreement came into existance.
The game has involved in many ways, but principles such as "honour" and "fair play" are unchanging - as your fellow ROI fans so loudly complained in the wake of the "Hand of Gaul".



You probably were alive when it happened and remember it like yesterday so can you tell us if this supposed Gentleman's Agreement was binding for eternity? And who exactly shoke hands on this agreement?
No, I'm not that old, but the issue has been discussed on this MB before. I'm pretty sure it was Gspain who outlined the arrangement - if I have mischaracterised it, I am sure he will correct me (and I will be happy to accede).

[EalingGreen]

What has the FAI got to do with Nationalists from Northern Ireland not feeling adequately represented within the IFA (assuming that is the case)?Eh? That is not what I was saying - or anything like it. :confused:


I haven't read every word of every post so I could be quoting you out of context.You don't need to read "every word of every post", just re-read the post to which you are replying.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Well, if you say differently, produce the evidence to support your spurious allegation.

Er, this was covered in my earlier answer.
Which I know you're not responsible for.

But until there's public access to all parts of that MB or its archive, we'll never :rolleyes: be able to highlight this!
If only they weren't so paranoid....

[co. down green]

Nonsense! It would only be wrong for such people to get involved in the IFA if they allowed their personal opinions to inform the conduct of their official functions.
Otherwise, in the light of eg the present Catholic abuse scandal, it might be considered "wrong" for any senior member of the Catholic church to be involved in running the FAI or GAA etc.
Therefore, if you have any evidence that Kennedy (or others within the IFA) have discriminated against Cathilics/Nationalists etc, you had better either produce it, or retract.

Are you on drugs? :eek:

[dantheman]

Too many posts to reply to but in summary:


We don't need an all-Ireland team, we have a better one defacto. We do not need to bring sectarianism to the FAI setup. The ROI will continue to represent the ROI (and qualified players) and anyone from NI who wishes to play for it, icnluding Protestants. This myth that the FAI will stay away from the Protestant community has already been debunked, Alan Kernaghan. The NI team will represent those from NI (and qualified players) who wish to represent it.
FAI scouts will rightly appear more and more in the north. OWC fans need to let that go.
The Gentleman's agreement never had any relevance
I haven't met a Nationalist from the North who feels bitter rivalry towards the Republic's team either
If there was an All Ireland team, noone in GB would blink. Most would probably favour it. It does not affect Wales/Scotland fans in any way. NI is a place apart in all things, including football.
The IFA should issue a statement that they are stopping opposition to letting the future Darren Gibsons playing for the ROI, no apology needed for their behaviour just lets move on. They should also acknowledge that people from NI wish to play for the ROI for good reason.
There is no onus on the FAI to change anthems or flags as none are contentious. The issues are all up north. Separately the IRFU should look at its anthem used in Dublin. The Ireland team is not the ROI, as Paul O'Connell and his mates in the NDC should note!
There is no need for the IFA to change the flag as it not its business. That lies with Stormont. They have got rids by and large of the Union Jack, which has no place at a NI match. Anyone who brings a UJ to Windsor Park should be thrown out.
There is an onus to change the Anthem from GSTQ to another. Most of the NI fans posting here in fairness seem to favour this, but I totally disagree with them when they say they have to consider the views of fans who wish to keep it. There is no excuse. The IFA seems not to favour change, despite a report it commissioned. The people of NI have a right to know why this is not the case, not just NI fans (as the IFA is supposed to, in theory, represent them).
As stated, only England and NI do not have their own anthem. And only NI's is contentoius. I acknowledge that some also sing No Surrender during GSTQ, so you're in esteemed company there! Playing a UK anthem while campainging against a UK team is a bit silly no. It is very relevant
NI and ROI are not foreign under UK law. I'll not explain again.
There are two teams on this island, who used to play as one. In most other sports, Ireland is represented as one.he FAI was forced to be set up after the bigotted IFA made life impossible for the Dublin clubs. NI and the ROI merging are no the same as Germany and China merging. Only a loyalist bigot would make such a stupid analogy, ffs grow up.
Saying the IFA are orange tinted is hardly inaccurate. Their chairman is an Orangeman. He was elected by people who knew the image that would send out. This hardly looks good if they are trying to implement a FFA campaign. Saying it is orange tinted and nearly there are hardly contradictions either. The IFA used to be very orange now its somewhat orange. One day it may be neutral? Not difficult to grasp.
There was no rule on the Linfield rulebook stating they could not sign Catholic players. Neither had Rangers. But in practice this was the policy they implemented. No other major club in Ireland used this policy in practise.The IFA knew this when they signed the deal with them. Linfield have sorted themselves out, but when that deal is gone we can move on.
The OWC website is much less open to debate than this one. The tern taigs is not used, but beggars is. Ironic for a state maintained by the public sector (ie English taxpayer)! Nationalists are welcome to post there, provide you do not ask any real questions about the institutions, on which point you are hounded by wolves. The NI fans group is mainly a closed shop. The have a section for "mainlanders" ffs! Their £5 donation goes straight to the UVF. That last point wasn't true btw. There is no apology from me EG, and yes I have attended matches this decade (last one 0-1 friendly against Canada)
Songs like the Billy Boys and the Sash were very common until recent years. They have almost completely disappeared from the terraces, as have the Rangers tops. Some milder stuff like Rule Britannia remains. I can't remember any UDA/UVF flags to be fair.


There is a strong, separate, case for an AIL. One club e.g Linfield should not be able to stop this should the clubs desire it. The Setanta Cup is dying a death because nothing is at stake, an AIL may be different. The loss of European places would be a blessing in disguise for IL clubs, after their show this year!

Yeah!!!!!!!

[Not Brazil]

Er, this was covered in my earlier answer.
Which I know you're not responsible for.

But until there's public access to all parts of that MB or its archive, we'll never :rolleyes: be able to highlight this!
If only they weren't so paranoid....

YOU said YOU had experienced the term "taigs" being "common place" - therefore, err, you must have access to enough of the Forum to state such a thing.

I contend that the term "taigs" is not "common place" in any derogatory fashion.

Put up, or shut up.

Nothing "paranoid" about it - ALL areas open to ANYONE who wishes to pay the small fee requested by the site owner for upkeep.

Paranoia is about imagining things in your head, isn't it?:D

[Not Brazil]

Probably not, but there will be an AI Cup of some sort.

It will be slightly different when 3,000 Dubs land up in Windsor I would think.

Every other Linfield fan I have spoken to is looking forward to it as they see it as the two biggest and most successful clubs locking horns.

I think so, too much tinkering. Which is why I would guarantee Rovers and Linfield will be drawn together to spark interest.


I hope there is an AI Cup of sort.

Brilliant if you brought 3,000 to Belfast - I hope we'd get slightly more tickets for Dublin than for the last time we played you there (when the Fat Controller had flowing blond locks, a twinkle in his eye, and an ability to score the winner) - we got NO tickets (but some "follow followed" anyway!)

I'll look forward to it if/when it happens - speaking personally, not in the same league as an important big Blues/Glens game.

If the Setanta goes ahead, and we get drawn together, it'll make a welcome change from playing Self Pity City (or whatever their new club is called).

[dr_peepee]

Eh? That is not what I was saying - or anything like it. :confused:

You don't need to read "every word of every post", just re-read the post to which you are replying.


You see, I ask this question because my team regularly gets castigated for being "unacceptable" to Northern Nationalists because of its (partisan) anthem and flags etc.

Therefore, as a fan of the ROI team, do you not agree that in order to be consistent, the FAI should replace their own (partisan) anthem and flag etc, so as to be equally acceptable to Northern Unionists?

Or is it only one of the two Irish international football teams which should be required to "jump through hoops" in order to justify their existence?

Give me some credit, man. I did read it. I still don't get your point. You brought up the fact that some people on here have cited that Nationalists in Northern Ireland don't feel adequately represented by the IFA. Baring in mind that not everyone who believes this are are calling for a 32 county team I don't think you argued the point, yet still cited double standards of critics of the IFA on this board.

[janeymac]

Nonsense! It would only be wrong for such people to get involved in the IFA if they allowed their personal opinions to inform the conduct of their official functions.

Otherwise, in the light of eg the present Catholic abuse scandal, it might be considered "wrong" for any senior member of the Catholic church to be involved in running the FAI or GAA etc.
Therefore, if you have any evidence that Kennedy (or others within the IFA) have discriminated against Cathilics/Nationalists etc, you had better either produce it, or retract.

P.S. I am (genuinely) curious to know exactly how "senior" an Orangeman Kennedy is. Can you enlighten me?

Is the Orange Order not a sectarian organisation? From what I know, its whole ethos is anti-catholic (rather than being pro-protestant). In most countries it would be a prohibited organisation because it discriminates against catholics. (And no, its not the same category of the Church of England, Presbyterian Church, or Catholic Church).

Equating members of the Orange Order to Catholic clery does not wash. Its not the aim of the catholic church to abuse children, while the raison d'etre of the Orange Order is anti-Catholic.



Gather Round has already explained the practical reasons why Unionists should make up a majority of the office bearers of the IFA.
However, that should surely only be a problem if, like Kennedy and his Orangeism (above), they use that to discriminate against non-Unionists.

Does not matter how senior he is in the Orange Order. In most normal countries, it would be outlawed.


Now notwithstanding that historically, at least one Catholic/Nationalist was elected to the position of President of the IFA, or that the team has had several Catholic managers (including the very first) etc, I accept that in the past the IFA has had a Unionist "slant" to it, and I condemn that.

Shocking statistic - with a population split of 55:45 - only one catholic in over a 100 years.

[Not Brazil]

There is no need for the IFA to change the flag as it not its business. That lies with Stormont. They have got rids by and large of the Union Jack, which has no place at a NI match. Anyone who brings a UJ to Windsor Park should be thrown out.

The Union Flag is the Official Flag of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland - to ban anyone from carrying a Union Flag to a Northern Ireland game is lunacy.

[Newryrep]

Too many posts to reply to but in summary:


We don't need an all-Ireland team, we have a better one defacto. We do not need to bring sectarianism to the FAI setup. The ROI will continue to represent the ROI (and qualified players) and anyone from NI who wishes to play for it, icnluding Protestants. This myth that the FAI will stay away from the Protestant community has already been debunked, Alan Kernaghan. The NI team will represent those from NI (and qualified players) who wish to represent it.
FAI scouts will rightly appear more and more in the north. OWC fans need to let that go.
The Gentleman's agreement never had any relevance
I haven't met a Nationalist from the North who feels bitter rivalry towards the Republic's team either
If there was an All Ireland team, noone in GB would blink. Most would probably favour it. It does not affect Wales/Scotland fans in any way. NI is a place apart in all things, including football.
The IFA should issue a statement that they are stopping opposition to letting the future Darren Gibsons playing for the ROI, no apology needed for their behaviour just lets move on. They should also acknowledge that people from NI wish to play for the ROI for good reason.
There is no onus on the FAI to change anthems or flags as none are contentious. The issues are all up north. Separately the IRFU should look at its anthem used in Dublin. The Ireland team is not the ROI, as Paul O'Connell and his mates in the NDC should note!
There is no need for the IFA to change the flag as it not its business. That lies with Stormont. They have got rids by and large of the Union Jack, which has no place at a NI match. Anyone who brings a UJ to Windsor Park should be thrown out.
There is an onus to change the Anthem from GSTQ to another. Most of the NI fans posting here in fairness seem to favour this, but I totally disagree with them when they say they have to consider the views of fans who wish to keep it. There is no excuse. The IFA seems not to favour change, despite a report it commissioned. The people of NI have a right to know why this is not the case, not just NI fans (as the IFA is supposed to, in theory, represent them).
As stated, only England and NI do not have their own anthem. And only NI's is contentoius. I acknowledge that some also sing No Surrender during GSTQ, so you're in esteemed company there! Playing a UK anthem while campainging against a UK team is a bit silly no. It is very relevant
NI and ROI are not foreign under UK law. I'll not explain again.
There are two teams on this island, who used to play as one. In most other sports, Ireland is represented as one.he FAI was forced to be set up after the bigotted IFA made life impossible for the Dublin clubs. NI and the ROI merging are no the same as Germany and China merging. Only a loyalist bigot would make such a stupid analogy, ffs grow up.
Saying the IFA are orange tinted is hardly inaccurate. Their chairman is an Orangeman. He was elected by people who knew the image that would send out. This hardly looks good if they are trying to implement a FFA campaign. Saying it is orange tinted and nearly there are hardly contradictions either. The IFA used to be very orange now its somewhat orange. One day it may be neutral? Not difficult to grasp.
There was no rule on the Linfield rulebook stating they could not sign Catholic players. Neither had Rangers. But in practice this was the policy they implemented. No other major club in Ireland used this policy in practise.The IFA knew this when they signed the deal with them. Linfield have sorted themselves out, but when that deal is gone we can move on.
The OWC website is much less open to debate than this one. The tern taigs is not used, but beggars is. Ironic for a state maintained by the public sector (ie English taxpayer)! Nationalists are welcome to post there, provide you do not ask any real questions about the institutions, on which point you are hounded by wolves. The NI fans group is mainly a closed shop. The have a section for "mainlanders" ffs! Their £5 donation goes straight to the UVF. That last point wasn't true btw. There is no apology from me EG, and yes I have attended matches this decade (last one 0-1 friendly against Canada)
Songs like the Billy Boys and the Sash were very common until recent years. They have almost completely disappeared from the terraces, as have the Rangers tops. Some milder stuff like Rule Britannia remains. I can't remember any UDA/UVF flags to be fair.


There is a strong, separate, case for an AIL. One club e.g Linfield should not be able to stop this should the clubs desire it. The Setanta Cup is dying a death because nothing is at stake, an AIL may be different. The loss of European places would be a blessing in disguise for IL clubs, after their show this year!

Yeah!!!!!!!

Far too reasonable a post

[ArdeeBhoy]

YOU said YOU had experienced the term "taigs" being "common place" - therefore, err, you must have access to enough of the Forum to state such a thing.

I contend that the term "taigs" is not "common place" in any derogatory fashion.

Put up, or shut up.

Nothing "paranoid" about it - ALL areas open to ANYONE who wishes to pay the small fee requested by the site owner for upkeep.

Paranoia is about imagining things in your head

Yeah right, like they'd welcome hundreds of people, unlike them on there.

You get them to put up the access and we'll then 'shut up'!
Or what was that about 'freedom of choice' ??
;)

[Predator]

There is no need for the IFA to change the flag as it not its business. That lies with Stormont. They have got rids by and large of the Union Jack, which has no place at a NI match. Anyone who brings a UJ to Windsor Park should be thrown out.

Actually, the onus is on the IFA, in my understanding. The 'Ulster banner' isn't official at all in N.Ireland and I think it's within the power of the IFA to change their representative flag. As Not Brazil rightly points out, technically, the Union flag is the official flag, but that doesn't necessarily make it acceptable in my opinion. Maybe they can do what Alex Maskey did, and have a Tri-colour and a Union flag. :p

[ArdeeBhoy]

The Union Flag is the Official Flag of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland - to ban anyone from carrying a Union Flag to a Northern Ireland game is lunacy.

But :rolleyes: thought you lot were against a 'Uk' team??

What's wrong with a neutral flag as suggested recently??

[janeymac]

Actually, FIFA leaves the four British Associations pretty much to themselves to sort out such "boundary disputes", which they (the four Associations) manage to do quite amicably, by way of freely negotiated and observed agreement.

Wait until some stroppy young millionaire footballer lands them in court about them abusing his human right to express his national identity.


Of course, such an arrangement can only obtain on the basis that the participants are willing to behave in a respectful and, ahem, "gentlemanly" fashion - something which would probably preclude the FAI ever deciding to renounce their breakaway, and rejoin the IFA...

You mean the penny dropped with the FAI that they were going to be in serious trouble in the courts if they didn't do something about the 'gentleman's agreement.'



P.S. If you knew your history, you would be aware that the four British Associations do not "keep a whole FIFA department going"; rather, it was we who kept the entire organisation (FIFA) going, when it faced bankruptcy following WWII (or "The Emergency", as you might better know it)

How can the world of football ever forget - its up there with England winning WW11 on their own and '1966'. Now that you mention the "Emergency" - I presume you are suitably thankful to the Free State for sending ambulances & fire engines etc. to save Belfast and to Dev for persuading Hitler to stop bombing our people there (since the RAF couldn't be arsed defending them).

[Not Brazil]

Yeah right, like they'd welcome hundreds of people, unlike them on there.

You get them to put up the access and we'll then 'shut up'!
Or what was that about 'freedom of choice' ??
;)

Basically, you have been unable to substantiate your spurious allegations.

There's no "we'll" about it - it was YOU, and YOU alone, who made the allegation.

Indeed, your allegation regarding the "common place" usage of the term "taigs" has been refuted by dan (whom, it appears is able to "access all areas" on "that MB"

He states above:

"The term taigs is not used"

Now, are you telling me that dantheman is really a Unionist?:eek:

[Not Brazil]

But :rolleyes: thought you lot were against a 'Uk' team??

What's wrong with a neutral flag as suggested recently??

We are against an All UK team

I'd be happy enough with just a St Patrick's Cross flag myself, but, hey - sure didn't thon Red Hand belong to a fearless Gaelic Chieftan who fought those evil Brits?

Sssh - don't tell the Uber Prods that.;):D

[Not Brazil]

Maybe they can do what Alex Maskey did, and have a Tri-colour and a Union flag. :p

Maybe that's what will happen the "inevitable", singular, "United" Ireland team comes about, eh?

[Predator]

I'd prefer a St Patrick's Cross flag myself, but, hey - sure didn't thon Red Hand belong to a fearless Gaelic Chieftan who fought those evil Brits?

Sssh - don't tell the Uber Prods that.;):D
Ha, yeah! Pretty much. It's an old Irish symbol!

The 'Uber Prods' must love Tír Eoghain!

[dantheman]

Basically, you have been unable to substantiate your spurious allegations.

There's no "we'll" about it - it was YOU, and YOU alone, who made the allegation.

Indeed, your allegation regarding the "common place" usage of the term "taigs" has been refuted by dan (whom, it appears is able to "access all areas" on "that MB"

He states above:

"The term taigs is not used"

Now, are you telling me that dantheman is really a Unionist?:eek:

The term taigs is not used on the OWC website