Norn Iron rubbish part 23452346526 [Archive] - Page 25

Fixer82

31/12/2009, 12:14 AM

I find it interesting that you attend Ulster Rugby games - I was a regular attender myself up until the IRFU deemed Belfast an "away" venue for an International match (I live 15 mins walk from Ravenhill) - in my experience, there were always plenty of Ulster Banners on display amongst the supporters - have these been banned?

I was in Dublin in 1999 for a famous game when 40,000 Ulstermen were in attendance - thousands of Ulster Banners on display, and not a peep of any offence being taken.

Do you join in the chants of "Stand Up For The Ulstermen" at Ravenhill?

surely the Ulster Rugby team is for the 9 counties of Ulster and not the 6 counties of 'Northern Ireland'. Tommy Bowe is a Monaghan man I believe. Proud Ulsterman!!! Fair play to him.

So ya can't really equate the Ulster rugby team to the Northern Ireland soccer team....

geysir

31/12/2009, 1:11 AM

Ulster Rugby has already changed the crest some time ago, has a red hand with a strong life and heart line visible :)

found a picture

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/images/structure/buttons/Splash-a-01-Enter.gif

SilkCut

31/12/2009, 2:04 AM

The LOI has sustained itself for decades. As long as clubs are willing to not spend what they don't have, it will continue to sustain itself.

In fact, it is the kind of risky expansion that you advocate that has proven itself unsustainable, as pretty much all the clubs who tried it can testify.

I am sorry if this offends you osarusan but that is a ridiculous statement, most probably made in haste to defend a league you love which is understandable. The LOI has not sustained itself 'Properly" for quite some time. Almost every club has suffered financial difficulty, in fact almost every club still does. The clubs that have been successful in recent times have all been involved in financial irregularities of some shape or form, not all illegal in the eyes of Irish law by any means by the way. Some have just been guilty of gross mismanagement or over expenditure. Shels, Pats, Cork, Derry and Rovers have all been on the brink of extinction but have been bailed out or given reprieves. They represent what was once the elite of Irish football yet they were all based on foundations of sand. They have made a mockery of Irish football but they have also highlighted the need for change. I would like to see a system something like this,

Celtic Premier league.
Ulster
Muster
Connaught
Leinster
Swansea
Wrexham
Cardiff*
Celtic
Rangers
Hearts
Hibs
* Cardiff most likely would not be interested so replace with A.N. Other

All Irish based players on central contracts and attached to a current LOI team which would carry on as normal as a breeding ground for players as the AIL does for rugby. Same would apply for the Irish League.

The problems would be obvious for Scotland and Wales as to how the would pick the teams to represent them, but a similar set up would not be entirely unfeasable. Instead of looking at it as the demise of LOI, IL, SPL and WL football think of it as an extra football product to follow, on top of the ones we already have.

I don't think anyone has suggested the change would be easy, but then, what is?

You might not all agree with the ideas posted on here, but surely we all agree that change of some sort is needed??

Not Brazil

31/12/2009, 8:59 AM

surely the Ulster Rugby team is for the 9 counties of Ulster and not the 6 counties of 'Northern Ireland'. Tommy Bowe is a Monaghan man I believe. Proud Ulsterman!!! Fair play to him.

So ya can't really equate the Ulster rugby team to the Northern Ireland soccer team....

Without getting into the mechanics of the "Ulster Rugby" brand, and what it represents, it is absolutely true to state that Ulster consists of 9 Counties.

Tommy Bowe is, indeed, a Monaghan man.

The last time I checked, all 6 Counties of Northern Ireland are within Ulster - therefore, representing "Ulstermen".

osarusan

31/12/2009, 11:46 AM

I am sorry if this offends you osarusan but that is a ridiculous statement, most probably made in haste to defend a league you love which is understandable. The LOI has not sustained itself 'Properly" for quite some time.

LOI football has been around since 1921. It has sustained itself for 88 years.

I was responding to a post saying that the LOI had proven itself unsustainable. That is clearly wrong, as it has been going for 88 years.

There is a suggestion being made that the league being crap (which I'm happy to accept) means it is unsustainable. This connection is simply wrong.

Fixer82

31/12/2009, 12:12 PM

Without getting into the mechanics of the "Ulster Rugby" brand, and what it represents, it is absolutely true to state that Ulster consists of 9 Counties.

Tommy Bowe is, indeed, a Monaghan man.

The last time I checked, all 6 Counties of Northern Ireland are within Ulster - therefore, representing "Ulstermen".

So Northern Irish men plus men from an extra 3 counties....;)

Not Brazil

31/12/2009, 12:16 PM

So Northern Irish men plus men from an extra 3 counties....;)

Eh?:confused:

I merely point out that as all six counties comprising Northern Ireland are in Ulster, it is therefore not that hard to work out that Northern Irishmen are, er, Ulstermen.

EalingGreen

31/12/2009, 12:52 PM

Tommy Bowe is a Monaghan man I believe. Proud Ulsterman!!! Fair play to him.

Not that it matters a damn, but whilst Tommy Bowe is indeed proud of his Monaghan roots (Emyvale, I believe?), afaik he was actually born in Craigavon Hospital, which technically makes him an Armachian (sp?).

Moreover, he developed his rugby skills at Armagh Royal School, before attending University at Jordanstown.

So ya can't really equate the Ulster rugby team to the Northern Ireland soccer team....Never mind the 6:9/Border split, I'd say the presence of those in the Ulster squad with no local connections whatever (eg Botha, Danielli, Diack, Horua, Nagusa and Schifcofske etc) screws any comparison with the NI football team.

In that respect, it's more like the ROI football team...;)

Have a Happy New Year!

P.S. For any individual who is already starting a reply with "Whatabout Maik Taylor blah, blah, blah...", there's no need, it's understood. :D

Uncle_Joe

31/12/2009, 1:39 PM

let old acquaintance be forgot.... :D

third policeman

31/12/2009, 4:47 PM

Again nonsense.

It's easily arguable that the quality of LOI football has never being better than what it is now. The evidence is the league's current European ranking and the growing number of current and potential international players that have a LOI background. (Compare this with the Jack Charlton era). Look at the current player threads on the international forum for more evidence; Anthony Stokes, David Meyler, Kevin Doyle, Stephen Ward and Gary Deegan - all players that have been with LOI clubs.

And again, isn't time you worry about your own club's future. A club that is massively in debt and that is never going to win their domestic league any time soon. How competitive is the Premiership when only 2 or 3 clubs have a realistic chance of winning it? Shouldn't you be proposing the same radical changes for English football as you are for Irish football? After all the short falls for both leagues is pretty much the same, except there are on a much large scale for the Premiership.

You appear to be making my point. All the players you list are now (or shortly will be) playing in England! My starting point is to improve the standard of club soccer in Ireland by keeping more of our better players at Irish clubs. Surely you agree that it would be better (ie a better product for Irish socer fans) if a large number of the players currently playing in the Championship, Leagues 1 and 2, Premiership reserve sides and the SPL were playing in Ireland? That will only happen if Irish clubs can provide players with increased and competitive financial rewards. Hence the suggestion of a new structure that makes that viable. To take GR's point, maybe the Celtic League idea is a trifle conservative, and the ultimate transnational structure should be expanded further? Whatever, you have still failed to put forward a constructive alternative or a viable means by with the EL can hope to progress to the point where players like Deegan, Fahey and co dont all automatically end up playing abroad.

With respect to Liverpool, I tend to make my contributions on that subject on a forum where I imagine my musings may appear slightly more pertrinent. Last time I checked this was an Irish football forum.

Lionel Ritchie

31/12/2009, 5:54 PM

Never mind the 6:9/Border split, I'd say the presence of those in the Ulster squad with no local connections whatever (eg Botha, Danielli, Diack, Horua, Nagusa and Schifcofske etc) screws any comparison with the NI football team.

In that respect, it's more like the ROI football team...;)

Have a Happy New Year!

P.S. For any individual who is already starting a reply with "Whatabout Maik Taylor blah, blah, blah...", there's no need, it's understood. :D

...don't try and head me off at the pass. It aint just Maik Von Taylor either. Did that Norwegian defender of yeers turn up because he heard about ze Harp? :D

Happy New Year EG! Stay safe on the roads in this weather. Sure Capaldi may have a spare set of tyre chains in the boot ...him being from Norway and all.

Fixer82

31/12/2009, 6:07 PM

In that respect, it's more like the ROI football team...;)

ha ha touch�.

and may i take this moment to wish all my brothers and sisters to the North a very happy new year! Bainig� sult as mo chairde!

EalingGreen

31/12/2009, 6:17 PM

...don't try and head me off at the pass. It aint just Maik Von Taylor either. Did that Norwegian defender of yeers turn up because he heard about ze Harp? :D

Happy New Year EG! Stay safe on the roads in this weather. Sure Capaldi may have a spare set of tyre chains in the boot ...him being from Norway and all.

Dear, dear, Lionel - that reference to the Ice Cream Man is not so much "Dancing on the Ceiling" as "Scraping on the Bottom of the Barrel".

You see, the boul Tony had a choice of countries to represent:
1. Norway - where his Da (ex-Aston Villa) was playing out the tail-end of his career and Tony was born;
2. England - where his Da was born;
3. Italy - where his Granda was from;
4. Republic of Mexic... er Ireland - they'll take anyone; and (drum roll):
5. Norn Iron - where his dear oul Mammy was born and rared.

I think you'll find he chose his country wisely - even if his better judgement doesn't extend to his choice of club! ;)

http://nifootball.blogspot.com/2006/08/tony-capaldi.html

P.S. No need for Snow Chains in the Polar North; our Reindeer, like our footballers, are ultra sure-footed.

janeymac

01/01/2010, 11:07 AM

Not that it matters a damn, but whilst Tommy Bowe is indeed proud of his Monaghan roots (Emyvale, I believe?), afaik he was actually born in Craigavon Hospital, which technically makes him an Armachian (sp?).

Moreover, he developed his rugby skills at Armagh Royal School, before attending University at Jordanstown.

Never mind the 6:9/Border split, I'd say the presence of those in the Ulster squad with no local connections whatever (eg Botha, Danielli, Diack, Horua, Nagusa and Schifcofske etc) screws any comparison with the NI football team.

I think it would be a bit more than 'roots' with Emyvale. He played up to U-21 with the local GAA club & up to U-16 for Monaghan. He also won sprinting medals with the local athletics club in the Community Games. Oh, and he played underage rugby for Monaghan Town RFC. It would seem that his rugby coach in Royal Armagh (a fee paying school, I presume) was a neighbour of his in Emyvale and possibly why he went to a rugby playing school with the hope that he could become a professional rugby player.

His mother worked in Craigavon Hospital which is more than likely the reason he was born there (His mother is from Kildare & father is from Waterford).

A nice tribute to him here (and his family) in the Hogan Stand. I love the bit where they talk about how the pupils and staff of Armagh Royal School were shocked to discover that their new head girl Hannah (Tommy's sister who is a hockey international) had played gaelic football in Croke Park.

http://www.hoganstand.com/monaghan/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=66932

And according to this, he went to Queens University.

EalingGreen

01/01/2010, 1:25 PM

I think it would be a bit more than 'roots' with Emyvale.
Sorry, I didn't mean to downplay his Emyvale background - I couldn't say he was born there, so I said "roots" to mean that's where he is from (rooted in)

It would seem that his rugby coach in Royal Armagh (a fee paying school, I presume) was a neighbour of his in Emyvale and possibly why he went to a rugby playing school with the hope that he could become a professional rugby player.
Armagh Royal does accept fee-paying pupils, which presumably Tommy was (unless he got some ROI Government grant?). However, it is also the state Grammar school (i.e. non-fee paying) for local boys/girls who pass their 11+/entrance exam.
And whilst his Da is obviously a big rugby man, the quality of education it offers may also have been a factor over a more local Monaghan school?

His mother worked in Craigavon Hospital which is more than likely the reason he was born there
Well, it's only to be expected that Tommy wanted his mother close by when he was being born...;)

http://www.hoganstand.com/monaghan/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=66932

And according to this, he went to Queens University.
According to his Wiki entry, he studied at UUJ, but played rugby for QUB (much higher standard of rugby than UUJ):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Bowe

Fine rugby man, anyhow - and it's nice to know that if he ever decided to "do a Tony Ward" and take up real football, he's qualified to play for NI. :cool:

co. down green

01/01/2010, 1:38 PM

Never mind the 6:9/Border split, I'd say the presence of those in the Ulster squad with no local connections whatever (eg Botha, Danielli, Diack, Horua, Nagusa and Schifcofske etc) screws any comparison with the NI football team.

Sounds a bit like the North team fielded by the great Lawrie McMenemy :rolleyes: in 1999

Maik Taylor (Born Germany)
Iain Jenkins (Born lancashire)
Jim Whitley (Born Zambia)
Kevin Horlock (Born Kent)
Mark Williams (Born Cheshire)
Jon McCarthy (Born Hartlepool)
Danny Sonner ( Born wigan)
James Quinn (Born Coventry)
Jeff Whitley (Born Zambia)
Ian Dowie (Born Hertfordshire)

Beggars !! ;)

EalingGreen

01/01/2010, 2:10 PM

Sounds a bit like the North team fielded by the great Lawrie McMenemy :rolleyes: in 1999

Maik Taylor (Born Germany)
Iain Jenkins (Born lancashire)
Jim Whitley (Born Zambia)
Kevin Horlock (Born Kent)
Mark Williams (Born Cheshire)
Jon McCarthy (Born Hartlepool)
Danny Sonner ( Born wigan)
James Quinn (Born Coventry)
Jeff Whitley (Born Zambia)
Ian Dowie (Born Hertfordshire)

Beggars !! ;)

I think you'll find everyone of those bar Big Maik had at least one, and as many as six, parents/grandparents from NI.

Somehow, I don't think that applies to Messrs. Schifcofske or Nagusa, for instance, which was the point I was making.

Brendan 82

01/01/2010, 3:28 PM

this thread is awesome guys!

I'm originally from the island of celebes in indonesia but I love the Robbie Keane :)

Soccer stars 2010. woooo!

Fixer82

01/01/2010, 4:47 PM

Fine rugby man, anyhow - and it's nice to know that if he ever decided to "do a Tony Ward" and take up real football, he's qualified to play for NI. :cool:

What do ya mean? Northern Ireland doesnt have a Gaelic Football team :)

EalingGreen

02/01/2010, 3:03 PM

What do ya mean? Northern Ireland doesnt have a Gaelic Football team :)

What do ya mean? Tony Ward never played Bogball...

SilkCut

03/01/2010, 6:55 AM

LOI football has been around since 1921. It has sustained itself for 88 years.

I was responding to a post saying that the LOI had proven itself unsustainable. That is clearly wrong, as it has been going for 88 years.

There is a suggestion being made that the league being crap (which I'm happy to accept) means it is unsustainable. This connection is simply wrong.

I can understand where you are coming from, yes the LOI has been around for years. Some of my own family were part of it during its glory days and from their descriptions it was once a wonderful advertisement for Irish football. Some of the greatest footballers ever to play finished their careers in the LOI. To suggest that there is no correlation between the quality of the league and its sustainablity is however both wrong and a little naive. The LOI is a product, its something that is produced so that people will pay to enjoy it and therefore make it viable. If a mars bar was made of excrement would it be such a popular product?
The LOI as we know it ( a semi professional league) is completely unsustainable, yes it may continue as an amateur league but thats like saying mars bars still existed because someone kept pushing **** into a wrapper. The name lives on but no one is interested in the product.
You seem to know your stuff osarusan and I don't mean to offend but you really need to take the blinkers off and see that the LOI is dying and needs drastic change, the same goes for the SPL, IL and LOW.

Fixer82

03/01/2010, 12:19 PM

I think you'll find everyone of those bar Big Maik had at least one, and as many as six, parents/grandparents from NI.

?????

how can ya have 6 parents or grandparents? I'm hugely confused Ted!

osarusan

03/01/2010, 6:39 PM

?????

how can ya have 6 parents or grandparents? I'm hugely confused Ted!

2 parents + 4 grandparents = 6 parents / grandparents?

backstothewall

04/01/2010, 5:28 PM

:D
An understandable (freudian) slip of the tongue, considering the circumstances.

It didn't at all help that i was half cut when i typed that reply

Wolfie

06/01/2010, 12:38 PM

62 pages.

Could this be the longest surviving thread to feature Northern Ireland?

In summary - what have we learned.

Well.............. ....... ..... wait now...............................feck it.

Deckydee

07/01/2010, 6:45 AM

Anywho, any update on the proposed match against Belgium?

Gather round

07/01/2010, 7:31 AM

No game against Belgium in March- the KNVB have organised a game with Croatia instead.

Closed Account

07/01/2010, 9:27 AM

the knvb have organised a game with croatia instead.
kbvb?

Gather round

07/01/2010, 9:41 AM

Whoops. Apologies to all my readers in Belgium.

It's a shame, I quite fancied that game. Maybe Luxembourg instead?

co. down green

07/01/2010, 10:20 AM

No game against Belgium in March- the KNVB have organised a game with Croatia instead.

Belgium manager Dick Advocaat has rejected the possibility of playing a friendly with Northern Ireland as the Dutchman supposedly wants tougher opposition.

The Belgian FA (KBVB) and Northern Ireland had been discussing a friendly while Advocaat was reportedly under the impression that it concerned Ireland Republic, rather than their northern neighbours.

"We spoke with Northern Ireland and there was the possibility to play a friendly," said KBVB Chairman Jean-Marie Philips.

"Our coach was then brought up to date, but communication went wrong. Advocaat thought we meant Ireland. When in an e-mail he read that it concerned Northern Ireland, he informed us that he preferred stronger opponents."

According to media reports, Belgium have already found a replacement and face Croatia in a March 3 encounter.

http://uk.soccerway.com/news/2010/January/07/belgium-manager-advocaat-rejects-n-ireland-friendly/

Deckydee

07/01/2010, 10:30 AM

kbvb?

Koninklijke Belgische VoetbalBond

Bascially means Royal Belgian Football Association

osarusan

07/01/2010, 10:33 AM

Whoops. Apologies to all my readers in Belgium.

Perhaps you were thinking about the NKVD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NKVD)?

ifk101

07/01/2010, 10:57 AM

Belgium manager Dick Advocaat has rejected the possibility of playing a friendly with Northern Ireland as the Dutchman supposedly wants tougher opposition.

The Belgian FA (KBVB) and Northern Ireland had been discussing a friendly while Advocaat was reportedly under the impression that it concerned Ireland Republic, rather than their northern neighbours.

"We spoke with Northern Ireland and there was the possibility to play a friendly," said KBVB Chairman Jean-Marie Philips.

"Our coach was then brought up to date, but communication went wrong. Advocaat thought we meant Ireland. When in an e-mail he read that it concerned Northern Ireland, he informed us that he preferred stronger opponents."

According to media reports, Belgium have already found a replacement and face Croatia in a March 3 encounter.

http://uk.soccerway.com/news/2010/January/07/belgium-manager-advocaat-rejects-n-ireland-friendly/

Fair bit of arrogance there from Dickie....

... like Belgium are good enough to take on our boys. :rolleyes:

Deckydee

07/01/2010, 12:02 PM

Fair bit of arrogance there from Dickie....

... like Belgium are good enough to take on our boys. :rolleyes:

The problem is not the team, its the country. ;)

Dont get me started on this. It would be a very long post indeed :mad:

EalingGreen

07/01/2010, 1:58 PM

Fair bit of arrogance there from Dickie....
Too right! The last two occasions we've played Belgium, we've humped then 3-0 each time.
And we don't smother our chips in Mayonnaise, either :rolleyes:

Gather round

07/01/2010, 2:02 PM

Too right! The last two occasions we've played Belgium, we've humped then 3-0 each time.
And we don't smother our chips in Mayonnaise, either :rolleyes:

Steady on. There are many things wrong with Belgium (and its football), but Vlaamse frites ain't one of them. Pass the sauce :)

third policeman

07/01/2010, 2:26 PM

Steady on. There are many things wrong with Belgium (and its football), but Vlaamse frites ain't one of them. Pass the sauce :)

What's wrong with Belgium exactly? Having worked there I think its a very badly maligned country and far from the cultural desert it is portrayed. Its just that the French lay claim to all their creative icons (Rene Magritte, Jacques Brehl, Tintin / Herge, Georges Simenon / Maigret) in much the same way as the English used to appropriate ours.

Stuttgart88

07/01/2010, 2:47 PM

What was it Colin Farrell said to Brendan Gleeson when offered some quality Belgian beer in Bruges (or Bruggee)? "nah, that's fcuking gay beer."

I like Belgium myself.

yapster

07/01/2010, 2:55 PM

What was it Colin Farrell said to Brendan Gleeson when offered some quality Belgian beer in Bruges (or Bruggee)? "nah, that's fcuking gay beer."

I like Belgium myself.

I wouldn't call Stella Artois gay ffs. Farrell can't act to save his life. Gleeson is alright.

Gather round

07/01/2010, 3:05 PM

What's wrong with Belgium exactly? Having worked there I think its a very badly maligned country and far from the cultural desert it is portrayed. Its just that the French lay claim to all their creative icons (Rene Magritte, Jacques Brehl, Tintin / Herge, Georges Simenon / Maigret) in much the same way as the English used to appropriate ours

I'm a big fan too (although only as a tourist). You can overrate a culture dominated by fictional detectives, mind.

Apart from the underachieving football team, I was thinking of the constant ethnic/ language bickering and threats to split the country. Of course these may be exaggerated to foreigners.

I think the French probably appropriate Sam Beckett more than the English do.