Norn Iron rubbish part 23452346526

[Scooby Doo]

[QUOTE=Gather round;1280315] basically aren't interested in a bunch of crybabies whining about losing a bad refereeing decision.


GR, get off your high horse. It'll be a very long time before you and the rest of NI supporters will be close enough to a WC to feel such crushing disappointment after having a totally deserved ticket to the finals snatched away like that. When NI come close to achieving what Ireland did on Wednesday night then you can pontificate to us. Until then, toddle on back to Our Wee Country/mindset.

[ArdeeBhoy]

My National Flag is the Union Flag (it even has a St Patrick's Cross in it;) ), and my National Anthem is God Save The Queen.

I would be happy for a new "sporting" anthem to be employed at Northern Ireland games though.

I will not be denouncing my "Irishness", nor will I ever be conceding to your myopic view of what "Irishness" constitutes.

Hmm. Part 1 contradicts Part 2, FFS! Though at least you accept some middle ground!


And you seem to think I'm somehow defining 'Irishness';no real Irish person, even the worst kind of Sun-reading 'west Brit' would ever accept a tribute to some detached member of the German aristocracy as their anthem....hardly 'my' myopia.
Just a well-established view that you do or, in your case, dont subscribe to!

Read-up on definitions of Irishness;they don't and by their definition, aren't ever going to include that tune or colour scheme. ;)

[micls]

Read-up on definitions of Irishness;they don't and by their definition, aren't ever going to include that tune or colour scheme. ;)

:rolleyes: Are you for real? Definitions of irishness?

They are born on the island of Ireland therefore they are as Irish as anyone, regardless of your 'definition' of Irishness.

[Not Brazil]

:rolleyes: Are you for real? Definitions of irishness?

They are born on the island of Ireland therefore they are as Irish as anyone, regardless of your 'definition' of Irishness.

Your President speaks a lot of sense on the issue - backwoodsmen like our friend from Ardee should wake up.

Interesting piece here - sorry if it veers away from the football, but it will challenge the myopic mindset of some here.

It is written by a former political spokesman for the Ulster Defence Association (UDA).

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/1204/1228337390922.html

[The Fly]

My National Flag is the Union Flag (it even has a St Patrick's Cross in it;) ), and my National Anthem is God Save The Queen.

No apology for that, whatsoever.

No, I won't be changing that.

Fair enough NB. I for one would not expect you to change it.

Also, the Union Jack does indeed have the St. Patrick's Cross in it. However, it was not put there out of benevolence but through empire-building and conquest.



I would be happy for a new "sporting" anthem to be employed at Northern Ireland games though.

I will not be denouncing my "Irishness", nor will I ever be conceding to your myopic view of what "Irishness" constitutes.

Indeed NB, not one should subscribe to any myopic view of what constitutes Irishness. However, a person from Ireland who holds a Unionist position or Unionist views/beliefs is less Irish than someone who does not.

[Not Brazil]

Indeed NB, not one should subscribe to any myopic view of what constitutes Irishness. However, a person from Ireland who holds a Unionist positionor Unionist views/beliefs is less Irish than someone who does not.

I totally disagree...but this is neither the time or the place.

I'm not "second class" Irish.

[Scooby Doo]

Your President speaks a lot of sense on the issue - backwoodsmen like our friend from Ardee should wake up.

Interesting piece here - sorry if it veers away from the football, but it will challenge the myopic mindset of some here.

It is written by a former political spokesman for the Ulster Defence Association (UDA).

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/1204/1228337390922.html
Interesting piece NB but i wonder, and i'm just being the devil's advocate here, is the notion of dual identity not more likely to be adopted by solely the unionist population more so than the nationalists who i would imagine would describe themselves as 'purely Irish'? I am not trying to get a rise out of anyone here, merely genuinely interested.

[holidaysong]

How has this gone on for seven pages?!

[ArdeeBhoy]

:rolleyes: Are you for real? Definitions of irishness?

They are born on the island of Ireland therefore they are as Irish as anyone, regardless of your 'definition' of Irishness.

Are you for real also? Ask the average unionist politician and they won't be emphasisng the 'I'-word! Need to come out of whatever Indo-like bubble yer inhabiting.....

However, to NB. Interesting piece;which is as much about interpetation as facts.

Accepting that alone, If you want to be considered 'Irish', the unionists have to lose some of their many British symbols and whilst you may be willing to do this, suspect the majority don't or won't. And moderating your tone about flags and anthems if you want to be taken seriously as being 'Irish'. Which ultimately won't happen.

So it's not a question of 'backwoods', but plenty of engrained views on both sides.....

[Gather round]

GR, get off your high horse. It'll be a very long time before you and the rest of NI supporters will be close enough to a WC to feel such crushing disappointment after having a totally deserved ticket to the finals snatched away like that. When NI come close to achieving what Ireland did on Wednesday night then you can pontificate to us. Until then, toddle on back to Our Wee Country/mindset

Totally deserved? You went into the game needing to either a) score at least two goals or b) win the lottery of a shoot-out. You couldn't manage the first- and Gallas's goal didn't actually add to the target, 2-1 would have been as good as 2-0- and no-one knows what would have happened during penalties. So get a sense of perspective, eh?

When you stop stirring it- over and over again on this thread alone- I'll gracefully dismount and stop pontificating (not that I'd started, but I realise you may be a bit tired and emotional). See you at the Euro 2012 draw for more analysis.


However, a person from Ireland who holds a Unionist position or Unionist views/beliefs is less Irish than someone who does not

Amazing. Plenty of competition on the thread, but that takes the prize for sectarian halfwitted comment of the day.


How has this gone on for seven pages?!

There are a lot of stirrers and wind-ups about...

[micls]

Are you for real also? Ask the average unionist politician and they won't be emphasisng the 'I'-word!.
Why do you keep mentioning politicians? Next you'll be telling us all FF voters are like Brian Cowen.

A politician will emphasise whatever they feel gets them elected, that does not mean that individuals dont consider themselves irish, as the Unionist posters on here have already told you.

Politicians don't define Irishness, and neither do you.



Need to come out of whatever Indo-like bubble yer inhabiting.....

Pathetic attempt at generalisation.




Accepting that alone, If you want to be considered 'Irish', the unionists have to lose some of their many British symbols and whilst you may be willing to do this, suspect the majority don't or won't. And moderating your tone about flags and anthems if you want to be taken seriously as being 'Irish'. Which ultimately won't happen.
.

You're jsut funny at this stage.

Taken seriously as Irish :D :rolleyes:

[Acornvilla]

taught this was a football forum?:confused:

[ArdeeBhoy]

There are a lot of stirrers and wind-ups about...

Hmm. Of which you're one!

But more seriously, all we wanted on Wednesday night was a level playing field. which we didn't get. And suspect we wouldn't have had, regardless.

[holidaysong]

Are you for real also? Ask the average unionist politician and they won't be emphasisng the 'I'-word! Need to come out of whatever Indo-like bubble yer inhabiting.....

It's in the interest of the politicians in the DUP, the UUP, Sinn Féin (and to a lesser extent the SDLP) to preserve the Irish - British dichotomy in Northern Ireland. In my opinion these parties have nothing to them apart from claiming to represent one of the two ethno-national communities. Therefore it's in the interest of the DUP to play the British identity card as it's in the interest of Sinn Féin to play to their Irish constituents. If a plural Northern Irish identity developed in the province, and with it normal politics - political parties fighting over normal issues - then the likes of Adams, Robinson, McGuinness and Dodds are out of a job. If the DUP, UUP and SF were abolished in the morning and Adams, Robinson and the others were running on Labour or Conservative tickets I'm sure they wouldn't be too slow about reaching out to voters on the other side.

[Not Brazil]

Accepting that alone, If you want to be considered 'Irish', the unionists have to lose some of their many British symbols and whilst you may be willing to do this, suspect the majority don't or won't. And moderating your tone about flags and anthems if you want to be taken seriously as being 'Irish'. Which ultimately won't happen.


:eek:

More BNP like ramblings.:rolleyes:

I'll not be losing anything, thanks.

If your idea of "Uniting" anything is to continue espousing this sort of bigotry, you will be sorely disappointed.

But, sure, keep banging your head....

[ArdeeBhoy]

Why do you keep mentioning politicians?

A politician will emphasise whatever they feel gets them elected, that does not mean that individuals dont consider themselves irish, as the Unionist posters on here have already told you.

Politicians don't define Irishness, and neither do you.
Pathetic attempt at generalisation.

You're jsut funny at this stage.

Surely the last phrase is an apt description for your good self.

But if there's no political will to change the leaders stance of the last 40 years or so, then I rest my case. If you chose to ignore that, more fool you!

[micls]

Surely the last phrase is an apt description for your good self.
Yeah, imagine respecting others right to be a different kind of Irish than I am. Madness.


But if there's no political will to change the leaders stance of the last 40 years or so, then I rest my case. If you chose to ignore that, more fool you!

What case? You mean your claim that because politicians use their britishness to win votes means none of them are Irish? As I said, laughable.

[Scooby Doo]

[QUOTE=Gather round;1280377]Totally deserved? You went into the game needing to either a) score at least two goals or b) win the lottery of a shoot-out. You couldn't manage the first- and Gallas's goal didn't actually add to the target, 2-1 would have been as good as 2-0- and no-one knows what would have happened during penalties. So get a sense of perspective, eh?

When you stop stirring it- over and over again on this thread alone- I'll gracefully dismount and stop pontificating (not that I'd started, but I realise you may be a bit tired and emotional). See you at the Euro 2012 draw for more analysis. [QUOTE]


I feel i've been pretty reasoned in my arguments and have accepted and taken yours on board throughout this discussion. My last post was in response to your bitter and totally unnecessary comment about what happened Ireland last week. You're in the minority (of world football supporters) if you think that Ireland don't deserve to be at the world cup. And you haughtely dismiss other posters as sh!t stirrers (admittedly there are some) while coming out with a statement like a 'bunch of crybabies'. Get off the pot son.

[ArdeeBhoy]

It's in the interest of the politicians in the DUP, the UUP, Sinn Féin (and to a lesser extent the SDLP) to preserve the Irish - British dichotomy in Northern Ireland. In my opinion these parties have nothing to them apart from claiming to represent one of the two ethno-national communities. Therefore it's in the interest of the DUP to play the British identity card as it's in the interest of Sinn Féin to play to their Irish constituents. If a plural Northern Irish identity developed in the province, and with it normal politics - political parties fighting over normal issues - then the likes of Adams, Robinson, McGuinness and Dodds are out of a job. If the DUP, UUP and SF were abolished in the morning and Adams, Robinson and the others were running on Labour or Conservative tickets I'm sure they wouldn't be too slow about reaching out to voters on the other side.

Exactamundo. But that pluralist identity won't happen in the short-term. Though maybe could send a message to the bunkers in Belfast &, er, Cork (well one person)to tell them so....

[Not Brazil]

But more seriously, all we wanted on Wednesday night was a level playing field. which we didn't get. And suspect we wouldn't have had, regardless.

You should have kicked up an almighty stink when the play offs were "seeded". Disgraceful.

The ref (and officials) made a mistake on Wednesday. A ref made a mistake when awarding you a penalty against Georgia - and against Spain in 2002.

Refs make mistakes all the time - throughout the world. They are human beings.

A ref and linesman made a big mistake when we played France in Spain in 1982 - but, hey, I'm over it.

**** happens - it will continue to happen.

Some you win, some you lose.

[micls]

Exactamundo. But that pluralist identity won't happen in the short-term. Though maybe could send a message to the bunkers in Belfast &, er, Cork (well one person)to tell them so....

Who has said differently? Once again, what a politician says does not equal what a voter is/wants. If you think it does then you mustn't have much of an opinion at all of People from ROI.

[ArdeeBhoy]

What case? You mean your claim that because politicians use their britishness to win votes means none of them are Irish? As I said, laughable.

Clearly you are rather simple in this respect. Read up what Unionist politicians say about the nature of 'Irishness' and as I said earlier to everyone, let me know if you ever find anything!
The reason they are continually mentioned and until, as HS says, there's a groundswell for a different sort of politics in the North those people will continue as for the last century or so to represent the unionist constituency......

[ArdeeBhoy]

You should have kicked up an almighty stink when the play offs were "seeded". Disgraceful.

Refs make mistakes all the time - throughout the world. They are human beings.

Some you win, some you lose.

We did. So bring in video replays. And yes. But there's already a hundred other threads about that. I'm talking about an All-Ireland team, not indulging you about FIFA's f*ck-wittery.....

[Not Brazil]

Clearly you are rather simple in this respect. Read up what Unionist politicians say about the nature of 'Irishness' and as I said earlier to everyone, let me know if you ever find anything!


It is true - Unionist politicians do not subscribe to your, myopic, view of Irishness ie. "pure" Irishness, Gaelic Irishness, Republican Irishness.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Who has said differently? Once again, what a politician says does not equal what a voter is/wants. If you think it does then you mustn't have much of an opinion at all of People from ROI.

Doh, it's the same for voters anywhere. Read up about the North before you claim to know about it, at least.....the politicians there are setting or acting on agendas determined by those who vote or are politically active!

[holidaysong]

Interesting piece NB but i wonder, and i'm just being the devil's advocate here, is the notion of dual identity not more likely to be adopted by solely the unionist population more so than the nationalists who i would imagine would describe themselves as 'purely Irish'? I am not trying to get a rise out of anyone here, merely genuinely interested.

Check out John Coakley (2007) 'National identity in Northern Ireland: stability or change?' or the Northern Ireland Life and Times Surveys (http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/).

In 1999, 40% of Catholics (not the same as nationalists I know) identified 'strongly' as Northern Irish with a further 32% 'weakly' and the remainder 'not at all'. 73% identified 'strongly' as Irish. You can obviously feel both Irish and Northern Irish, it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.

[Not Brazil]

We did. So bring in video replays. And yes. But there's already a hundred other threads about that. I'm talking about an All-Ireland team, not indulging you about FIFA's f*ck-wittery.....

Sorry - I was responding, directly, to YOUR post about Wednesday.

The "All Ireland" team thing is now done to death. You have one. There is another international team on the island - Northern Ireland.

We'll be around for many years to come.

Good luck with yours.

[ArdeeBhoy]

It is true - Unionist politicians do not subscribe to your, myopic, view of Irishness ie. "pure" Irishness, Gaelic Irishness, Republican Irishness.

Because they don't subscribe to any notion of such.....:rolleyes:
Which is fair enough as they keep telling everyone about their other more 'well-known' identity. At least they're consistent.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Check out John Coakley (2007) 'National identity in Northern Ireland: stability or change?' or the Northern Ireland Life and Times Surveys (http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/).

In 1999, 40% of Catholics (not the same as nationalists I know) identified 'strongly' as Northern Irish with a further 32% 'weakly' and the remainder 'not at all'. 73% identified 'strongly' as Irish. You can obviously feel both Irish and Northern Irish, it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.

Read then up when I have time HS. Interested to see their surveying technique but met very few Northern nats.who would accept themselves as 'Northern Irish', though bizarrely one or two would would support the team, to 'dilute' what they saw as a more malevolent influence on itn elsewhere.
Am guessing a little of it, as being 'northern Irish', would come out of the siege mentality which people of all identies saw themselves under in the North.....

[Scooby Doo]

Check out John Coakley (2007) 'National identity in Northern Ireland: stability or change?' or the Northern Ireland Life and Times Surveys (http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/).

In 1999, 40% of Catholics (not the same as nationalists I know) identified 'strongly' as Northern Irish with a further 32% 'weakly' and the remainder 'not at all'. 73% identified 'strongly' as Irish. You can obviously feel both Irish and Northern Irish, it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.

I've no doubt thats true. Come to think of an example of my own family, i've cousin from Newry who supports the ROI national team and also buys NI shirts. I asked him why he has both and he simply replied that he lived in NI and felt part of both. Which is fair enough.
But good post Holiday.

[holidaysong]

I just finished an MA in NI politics so I've loads of articles on ethnicity and identity in NI on my computuer. I can email some of them (including that Coakley one) if any of you are interested. Just PM me.

[Scooby Doo]

I just finished an MA in NI politics so I've loads of articles on ethnicity and identity in NI on my computuer. I can email some of them (including that Coakley one) if any of you are interested. Just PM me.
Really? Im trying to put together a PhD proposal on perceptions of 'the border' in Irish writing. Let me get back to you on that offer at a later date, could be very helpful.:)

[holidaysong]

Anyway, getting back to the topic - I'm not in favour of a merger of the two teams. As far as I'm concerned there are two nationalities on this island. My national team represents those who primarily identify as Irish. The NI team represents those who primarily identify as British and/or Northern Irish. That's not to say I disagree with the argument that you can be both British and Irish but if the point of international football is that different nations compete against each other then I don't see how someone from Newry who considers himself to be primarily British (even if they also consider themselves to be Northern Irish and/or Irish in some way) can support the same team as someone from Dundalk who considers himself to be Irish (and in no way British).

[holidaysong]

Really? Im trying to put together a PhD proposal on perceptions of 'the border' in Irish writing. Let me get back to you on that offer at a later date, could be very helpful.:)

My thesis title was 'A geographical analysis of public opinion in the Republic of Ireland concerning the constitutional status of Northern Ireland'. I used public opinion surveys and electoral data to map attitudes towards 'the north' and 'the border' throughout the ROI. I'm sure there's quite a bit out there in Irish literature too. I assume you've read it already but in case you haven't you need to read Colm Tóbín's 'Bad Blood - a walk along the Irish border'.

Apologies everyone for going way OT.

[Scooby Doo]

Apologies everyone for going way OT.
Cheers HS.
Apologies from me also for the deviation from football matters, but sure thats been goin on all day.:ball:

[The Fly]

I totally disagree...but this is neither the time or the place.

I'm not "second class" Irish.




Amazing. Plenty of competition on the thread, but that takes the prize for sectarian halfwitted comment of the day.


It has nothing to do with being "second class" Irish or any kind of class system, or indeed sectarianism.

It's quite simple really. Allow me to explain.
If you were to break down your national identity into it's constituent parts from 100%, how is it made up or broken down?

When I used the term 'less' Irish, I was not making a judgement call, merely an observation. 'Less Irish' does not mean 'not Irish'. If someone from NI states that he/she is British, I conclude through observation that the quotient of his/her identity made up by 'Irishness' is less than someone who states only Irish. This is an observation, not a judgement call. Holding one nationality over another does not denote good or bad. Both are what they are.
A person's respective identity/identities as pertaining to nationality, go together to make a whole. They are not whole, upon whole.....and so on. That is schizophrenia or multiple personality disorder.

[-lamb-]

Read then up when I have time HS. Interested to see their surveying technique but met very few Northern nats.who would accept themselves as 'Northern Irish', though bizarrely one or two would would support the team, to 'dilute' what they saw as a more malevolent influence on itn elsewhere.
Am guessing a little of it, as being 'northern Irish', would come out of the siege mentality which people of all identies saw themselves under in the North.....

you don't half talk some garbage. if you aren't trolling then....well, i'd rather not say.

here is a 2008 poll to set you straight, though no doubt your mind will refuse to accept it. i already posted the figures on this thread but obviously your subconscious didn't like them and blanked them out. please stop believing whatever nonsense your teacher/parents/friends are feeding your head and do us all a favour by finding out the truth.
http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2008/Community_Relations/NINATID.html
39% of catholics in NI DO NOT call themselves "irish" while 25% DO call themselves "northern irish".
a interesting point to note would be the figures on age and nationality. more people (of any outlook) under 35 call themselves "northern irish" than either "british" OR "irish".

[Gather round]

I feel i've been pretty reasoned in my arguments and have accepted and taken yours on board throughout this discussion

Not so. You've responded to the NI supporters telling you thanks, but we're not interested in joining your football team- by just repeating it, over and over and over again. It's not an argument, just a cliched slogan.


My last post was in response to your bitter and totally unnecessary comment about what happened Ireland last week

Who's bitter? I'm relieved you didn't make it, no more. If you're going to repeat the same sneers as above, you can hardly be surprised when they're occasionally returned.


You're in the minority (of world football supporters) if you think that Ireland don't deserve to be at the world cup

Don't be daft. How would either of us know what the typical fan in Africa or Asia or wherever thinks? Even if you did, you (and they notionally) are getting carried away by righteous indignation. Not conceding one dodgy goal didn't mean you'd have won overall, as I explained; conceding it doesn't make you particularly deserving. You lost unluckily, best get over it.


And you haughtely dismiss other posters as sh!t stirrers (admittedly there are some) while coming out with a statement like a 'bunch of crybabies'. Get off the pot son

Guilty as charged, son (I assume you're an adult male, apologies if not). Only coming down to your level.


A person's respective identity/identities as pertaining to nationality, go together to make a whole. They are not whole, upon whole.....and so on. That is schizophrenia or multiple personality disorder

Spare us the pseudo-science, Dr Freud. It's got fcuk all to do with schizophrenia (which is distinct from multiple personality disorder). You're just a bigot who won't accept unionists as equally Irish. I'd change my psychiatrist if I were you.

[The Fly]

Spare us the pseudo-science, Dr Freud. It's got fcuk all to do with schizophrenia (which is distinct from multiple personality disorder). You're just a bigot who won't accept unionists as equally Irish. I'd change my psychiatrist if I were you.

It's not pseudo-science GR. It is simple fact!
Read my post more carefully - it will help you to understand.
..........then maybe you will reply more intelligently as opposed to lazily and stupidly accusing people of bigotry.

[ArdeeBhoy]

here is a 2008 poll to set you straight, though no doubt your mind will refuse to accept it. i already posted the figures on this thread but obviously your subconscious didn't like them and blanked them out. please stop believing whatever nonsense your teacher/parents/friends are feeding your head and do us all a favour by finding out the truth.
http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2008/Community_Relations/NINATID.html
39% of catholics in NI DO NOT call themselves "irish" while 25% DO call themselves "northern irish".
a interesting point to note would be the figures on age and nationality. more people (of any outlook) under 35 call themselves "northern irish" than either "british" OR "irish".

You were the one who came on here banging the odds, baby sheep.

But I'll give you the benefit for now and read those questions/answers properly when I have time.
Again I'd be be interested in the methodology. And if all the young Catholics are as you say, fair enough(Most of the ones I know are 30 or over) but they don't fall into not calling themselves Irish and Northern Irish, let alone both!

But accept in recent times there's a more inclusive view towards being 'northern Irish', as the alternative is NB's 'alter ego' ......but unless any of us are going to live for 200 years, doubt we'll be around when the majority of Northern Catholics/Nats. stop calling themselves such.

[Gather round]

It's not pseudo-science GR. It is simple fact!
Read my post more carefully - it will help you to understand.
..........then maybe you will reply more intelligently as opposed to lazily and stupidly accusing people of bigotry.

Fly- your conclusions through observation aren't facts, just opinion. They're also simplistic and a bit pretentious- I'm 100% Irish regardless of how your quotients of identity, whatever they are, say otherwise because I'm also British, or a Jedi, or whatever. I don't spend every waking hour (contrary to the timestamps on this thread) agonising how Irish I am, any more than you do.

More seriously, while I don't claim any more than a basic layman's knowledge of psychiatry, schizophrenia and multiple personality disorders, I'm pretty certain than claiming to be 100% Irish and British both isn't in itself evidence of any of them. Your previous post also seemed to think schizophrenia and MPD were the same thing.

[The Fly]

Fly- your conclusions through observation aren't facts, just opinion. They're also simplistic and a bit pretentious- I'm 100% Irish regardless of how your quotients of identity, whatever they are, say otherwise because I'm also British, or a Jedi, or whatever. I don't spend every waking hour (contrary to the timestamps on this thread) agonising how Irish I am, any more than you do.

More seriously, while I don't claim any more than a basic layman's knowledge of psychiatry, schizophrenia and multiple personality disorders, I'm pretty certain than claiming to be 100% Irish and British both isn't in itself evidence of any of them. Your previous post also seemed to think schizophrenia and MPD were the same thing.

It is fact GR.

For instance, if a person from Northern Ireland describes themselves as being equally Irish and British, then each nationality makes up 50% of the whole. They don't each represent 100%.

[JohnB]

We will have to agree to disagree on that one. It is Northern Ireland that is being represented, not the UK. It has to have it's own official, cross-community anthem. GTSQ is neither of these and I'm afraid it is 'here or there' whether it reflects/represents the people of Northern Ireland.

We were told by the IRFU that the SS is played in Dublin because it's the NA of the host nation. This is then followed by the sporting anthem, Ireland's Call. NI doesn't have an official sporting anthem, but is part of the UK, de facto GSTQ is the equivalent of the SS. Apart from these details, it's a matter of fair play and, in treating NI as a foreign country the IRFU let us all know where we stand.

And it is neither here nor there otherwise we'd have to have a plebiscite every time we wanted to play an anthem. Anthems come and go, sometimes because the populace wants rid of them, but up to that point countries are stuck with them.




Pro-royal :confused:..............how so?

Yes. Protestant, OO member, pro-royal and living in the RoI. Like I said, there aren't many left, but they do exist.



The IRFU has not failed to provide it, Northern Ireland as an entity has failed to provide it by not having it's own anthem, in common with the Scot's and the Welsh.

Answered above. Be honest, it's more to do with disliking GSTQ than any other side issues isn't it?

[ArdeeBhoy]

It is fact GR.

For instance, if a person from Northern Ireland describes themselves as being equally Irish and British, then each nationality makes up 50% of the whole. They don't each represent 100%.


Aye, but yer average unionist would want to be :rolleyes: 100% Brit !
Unsure about the Irish quotient, but presumably substantially less ??

If I was an Irish nationalist, despite NB's bizarre parallel with the BNP, wouldn't want to be remotely British, if possible.

[Not Brazil]

For instance, if a person from Northern Ireland describes themselves as being equally Irish and British, then each nationality makes up 50% of the whole. They don't each represent 100%.

If you wish to "go all technical", Irish Nationals born in Northern Ireland have Dual Nationality - main exceptions being those who have sent the appropriate forms to the Home Office, denouncing their British Citizenship. I have never met one who has...and I've met many.;)

How do you think Irish Nationalists, born in Northern Ireland, qualify to play for Northern Ireland?

[Not Brazil]

despite NB's bizarre parallel with the BNP

Nothing "bizarre" about it - some of your language and ideals are straight out of the school of BNP thinking.:rolleyes:

[The Fly]

We were told by the IRFU that the SS is played in Dublin because it's the NA of the host nation. This is then followed by the sporting anthem, Ireland's Call. NI doesn't have an official sporting anthem, but is part of the UK, de facto GSTQ is the equivalent of the SS. Apart from these details, it's a matter of fair play and, in treating NI as a foreign country the IRFU let us all know where we stand.

And it is neither here nor there otherwise we'd have to have a plebiscite every time we wanted to play an anthem. Anthems come and go, sometimes because the populace wants rid of them, but up to that point countries are stuck with them.

Northern Ireland, i.e:the host nation, does not have an official anthem and GSTQ is not it by default. This is a fact. Once again GSTQ has no official status in Northern Ireland. Apologies for being pedantic.




Be honest, it's more to do with disliking GSTQ than any other side issues isn't it?

I have already stated that I would be against GSTQ being used to represent the Irish rugby team. If the sporting anthem ('Ireland's Call'), were to be used solely, I wouldn't have a problem with that. That's despite my dislike for it as a song, but then what do you expect when you ask Phil Coulter to write one.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Protestant, OO member, pro-royal and living in the RoI. Like I said, there aren't many left, but they do exist.

Answered above. Be honest, it's more to do with disliking GSTQ than any other side issues isn't it?
You are talking < 100 people surely, even in Rossnowlagh who are willingly Irish citizens?
But don't worry, we don't mind them, nor them us!

As for TQ song, it's a terrible dirge. Why doesn't the North at least come into the 20th century and go for 'Danny Boy' (or similar) as a sporting anthem? At least it mentions the green Glens and you don't have to share it with the worst kind of moronic England fan....

Even 'The Sash' or something to the tune of 'The Billy Boys' would make more sense and be a dammed sight more rousing than that and the 'No Surrender' add-on! ;)

[ArdeeBhoy]

If you wish to "go all technical", Irish Nationals born in Northern Ireland have Dual Nationality - main exceptions being those who have sent the appropriate forms to the Home Office, denouncing their British Citizenship. I have never met one who has...and I've met many.


Well I only know two, my sisters. Though to be fair they only ever have had Irish citizenship and never received such forms AFAIK.

[JohnB]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc34JKvCQ3Q

Aye, wee Sammy Wilson, like most of the politicians in NI, he's not exactly blessed with wit or imagination.


the concept of Ulster usurped by staunch unionism annoys me - rightly or wrongly.

I think it's hilarious, but it's got as much credibility as some of the republican pseudo-history we hear.

Here's one solution to much of this nonsense:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/1118/1224259043506.html