Norn Iron rubbish part 23452346526

[Not Brazil]

Wait until some stroppy young millionaire footballer lands them in court about them abusing his human right to express his national identity.


How do you envisage that arising?

Genuine question.

In the hypothetical event of there being a, singular, Irish team, would you uphold the right of someone born in Northern Ireland, going to Court if neccessary, in order to have the right to "express his national identity", by declaring to play for one of the British Associations?

[ArdeeBhoy]

The term taigs is not used on the OWC website

Fair enough, If you have 'access all areas'.
But it has been on there frequently enough in the past.

But hypocrisy aside, it's their failure to engage, like NB (!), with an opposing view, which is the biggest gripe about that place!

[dantheman]

But hypocrisy aside, it's their failure to engage, like NB (!), with an opposing view, which is the biggest gripe about that place!

That was my point exactly. But words taigs and fenians are not used.

[Not Brazil]

Fair enough, If you have 'access all areas'.
But it has been on there frequently enough in the past.


No, AB it hasn't.

You have been shown up to be telling porkies - the most honourable thing would be to simply retract what you passed as a truth, for whatever your motive.

Anyone using the term "taigs" in a derogatory way would be immediately banned.

It is difficult to engage and discuss with people who seek to fabricate the truth - I have no problem engaging with anyone/anywhere/anytime who holds oppossing views to myself, provided they come to the table with honesty and integrity.

Whilst I may fundamentally disagree with another persons' opinions/views, I respect and uphold their right to articulate them in a honest, non offensive, manner.

If you are not capable of that, there seems to be plenty of honest, sincere, folk here who are.

[Not Brazil]

The OWC website is much less open to debate than this one. Ironic for a state maintained by the public sector (ie English taxpayer)! Nationalists are welcome to post there, provide you do not ask any real questions about the institutions, on which point you are hounded by wolves. The NI fans group is mainly a closed shop. The have a section for "mainlanders" ffs!

What "real questions" about the institutions have you asked there dan, and in what way were you "hounded by wolves"?

Do you mean that you raised issues that a lot of people disagreed with, and told you so, and why?

I'm sure myself, GR, and EG don't expect our opinions/questions here to be met with universal approval, nor do we expect an easy ride on a Republic Of Ireland fans forum.

What, exactly, is wrong with having a section of the forum specific to our numerous Supporters Clubs in Great Britain, in order that they can promote events etc?:confused:

[Not Brazil]

There is a strong, separate, case for an AIL. One club e.g Linfield should not be able to stop this should the clubs desire it.

There probably is, but I wish someone would articulate it with substance based on anything other than fluffy speculation.

One Club eg, Linfield FC, CANNOT stop it.

ANY Club is entitled to express their opposition to it.

It's fair to say that other member clubs of the IFA are opposed to it - and not based on "political" reasons (I've heard many Cliftonville FC supporters, of a "nationalist" hue, express opposition to it!)

Linfield FC, and other IL Clubs, are members of the Irish Football Association.

If the Irish Football Association decide that they wish member clubs to be participants in an AIL, then we'll see what happens.

The other alternative is that Clubs breakaway from their respective Associations and form an AIL.

Speaking from a Linfield FC perspective, the Club has publicly stated they are committed to playing in the league currently organised and administered by the Irish Football Association.

For the Club to breakaway, it would require a vote by the Club members - don't know how that would go, but would predict it would not receive the approval of the neccessary majority.

The experiences of Linfield FC and it's supporters in the Setanta Cup have been largely favourable....consequently, I know many fans who don't rule out the prospect of playing in an AIL of sorts, depending on various factors.

However, there is nothing on the table, Delaney has shelved the notion, the IFA aren't bothered and it's not happening anytime soon.

In the meantime, I personally hope that some sort of cross border competition can be sustained.

[SUB of the day]

Another downside to not qualifying, this endless/tiresome debate surfaces again.What I like about football, is that it recognises the reality, ie ROI and NI are two different states.The four green fields misty eyed mythology, the IRFU and GAA indulge in is cringing,especially during " the two anthems" in Croke Park.

[Not Brazil]

Another downside to not qualifying, this endless/tiresome debate surfaces again.What I like about football, is that it recognises the reality, ie ROI and NI are two different states.The four green fields misty eyed mythology, the IRFU and GAA indulge in is cringing,especially during " the two anthems" in Croke Park.

Yes, it's interesting that in one of the aforementioned sports, many of it's supporters wax lyrical about how the Anthem and Emblems used by the IFA are "contentious in Northern Ireland", but see no such issue on the usage of another "contentious" Anthem and Emblems within Northern Ireland at their fixtures.

But, as we are led to believe, it's only those pesky Unionist types that are hypocrites.:rolleyes:

Good post SUB.

[Fixer82]

Ha, yeah! Pretty much. It's an old Irish symbol!

The 'Uber Prods' must love Tír Eoghain!

Tír Eoghan abú!

[dantheman]

Another downside to not qualifying, this endless/tiresome debate surfaces again.What I like about football, is that it recognises the reality, ie ROI and NI are two different states.The four green fields misty eyed mythology, the IRFU and GAA indulge in is cringing,especially during " the two anthems" in Croke Park.

What's your suggestion? A ROI rugby team and an all-ROI GAA championship?

[Predator]

Another downside to not qualifying, this endless/tiresome debate surfaces again.What I like about football, is that it recognises the reality, ie ROI and NI are two different states.The four green fields misty eyed mythology, the IRFU and GAA indulge in is cringing,especially during " the two anthems" in Croke Park.
Each to their own. I think the unity expressed through the all Ireland institutions of GAA and the IRFU among others is a good thing and doesn't serve to deepen the divide between the two parts of the island.

You can recognise the 'reality' and still have all-Ireland institutions. There's nothing wrong with it in my opinion. Then again, maybe I'm just indulging in 'misty eyed mythology'.

[Not Brazil]

Each to their own. I think the unity expressed through the all Ireland institutions of GAA and the IRFU among others is a good thing and doesn't serve to deepen the divide between the two parts of the island.

You can recognise the 'reality' and still have all-Ireland institutions. There's nothing wrong with it in my opinion. Then again, maybe I'm just indulging in 'misty eyed mythology'.

In the case of one of the aforementioned bodies, one of them has done little or nothing to "unite" the people of the island, and the other thinks playing in Belfast is an "away" fixture - you can "unite" land all you like, but you'll never have a "united" country until it's people are united. I think John Hume once said something similar.

[Predator]

In the case of one of the aforementioned bodies, one of them has done little or nothing to "unite" the people of the island, and the other thinks playing in Belfast is an "away" fixture - you can "unite" land all you like, but you'll never have a "united" country until it's people are united. I think John Hume once said something similar.
Fair points indeed, still, like a lot of things in Ireland, that probably has a lot to do with the 'dinosaurs' in charge. Things could change with the GAA and I don't understand why the IRFU classes Belfast as 'away' (I think it's stupid in fact). The idea of all-Ireland institutions is a good one is basically what I was saying.

[Not Brazil]

like a lot of things in Ireland, that probably has a lot to do with the 'dinosaurs' in charge

Indeed - to "unite" people (whether that be in the context of All Ireland things, or within Northern Ireland) leaders need to examine "barriers to inclusion", and deal with them.

[ArdeeBhoy]

No, AB it hasn't.

You have been shown up to be telling porkies - the most honourable thing would be to simply retract what you passed as a truth, for whatever your motive.

Anyone using the term "taigs" in a derogatory way would be immediately banned.

It is difficult to engage and discuss with people who seek to fabricate the truth - I have no problem engaging with anyone/anywhere/anytime who holds oppossing views to myself, provided they come to the table with honesty and integrity.

Whilst I may fundamentally disagree with another persons' opinions/views, I respect and uphold their right to articulate them in a honest, non offensive, manner.

If you are not capable of that, there seems to be plenty of honest, sincere, folk here who are.

There's nothing to deny. Sorry, seen it & similar with my own eyes. Though it's hard to say how prevalent it is now, if at all, given only a select few are allowed access.
But like I say it's not the language so much, but the failure to engage.

And have no problems with your views on here, except accomodating an AI team.... ;)

[ArdeeBhoy]

Another downside to not qualifying, this endless/tiresome debate surfaces again.

The four green fields misty eyed mythology, the IRFU and GAA indulge in is cringing,especially during " the two anthems" in Croke Park.

Ah yes, that well known bastion of Irish 'nationalism', the IRFU!
Though met people from N.E. Ulster in tow with them and London Irish, 'waving' tricolours.
And to be fair moaning about it. Despite others pointing out the colour scheme of the flag!!!
;)

[Not Brazil]

Though met people from N.E. Ulster in tow with them and London Irish, 'waving' tricolours.
And to be fair moaning about it. Despite others pointing out the colour scheme of the flag!!!
;)

What's the "colour scheme of the flag" got to do with anything?:confused:

[Not Brazil]

And have no problems with your views on here, except accomodating an AI team.... ;)

I believe, throughout the thread, I have expressed my acceptance of "an AI team" - the one that represents the FAI.

[Gather round]

You do not see any difference to the "stand up for the Ulstermen" chant? Taken in context with all the trappings, the indications are that it is a team followed primarily by the Protestant/Unionist people

No, I don't see a difference. 'Ulstermen' scans and in any case anyone interested knows that most of the fans are likely to be unionists. They don't sing 'Ulstermen' to show how unionist they are.


PS. Wasn't Jake Burns of SLF a big Northern Ireland fan - appearing on TOTP once upon a time in his Northern Ireland shirt? Maybe I'm mistaken

Burns was and is a big NI fan. He was in town the other day for a book launch. A muso mate of mine went along, hoping that now-Minneapolis-based and Crues-supporting guitarist Henry Cluney would show and buy a drink for the first time since 1983. He didn't, alas.


I think you will find it has gone on long before the 80's. I agree re 1993, the Ole Ole's were shocked to find a hostile atmosphere and locals who didn't buy into the 'best fans in the world' rubbish

Most would accept that the atmosphere at NI games is better now than it was in the 80s or 70s. I'm less bothered about before that time, I wasn't going. It's pretty much ancient history.


I disagree. The two largest and most successfull clubs from Irelands two largest cities is going to have a spark most other games won't

Up to a point. Arsenal v Rangers (ie the two largest and most successful clubs from Britain's two largest cities) doesn't have that spark, largely because it isn't a derby.


FAI scouts will rightly appear more and more in the north. OWC fans need to let that go. The Gentleman's agreement never had any relevance

The FAI can scout where they like. We need a new mutual agreement that prevents either side picking players who have already appeared for the other as adults.


If there was an All Ireland team, noone in GB would blink. Most would probably favour it...It does not affect Wales/Scotland fans in any way

I think you were right the first time, most British fans would be indifferent, it wouldn't directly affect them. I see no reason that they'd be particularly in favor. But you're daydreaming, it isn't going to happen without mutual support in Ireland. Which doesn't exist.

But to dwell for a moment on Wales and Scotland (as you have). You can't on the one hand cite FIFA/ the rest-of-the-World's supposed opposition to Britain's having four international sides as evidence of the inevitable push to an all-Ireland side (as many on the thread have done), and then blithely assume the Scots and Welsh will back you. One doesn't follow from the other, in fact they directly contradict.


NI is a place apart in all things, including football

More empty cliche. NI has many singular and unique traits to those of us from there, but your persistent assumption that the rest of UEFA are particularly engaged by them doesn't follow. They aren't bothered. They've been playing for us for a century and plan to keep doing so.


The IFA should issue a statement that they are stopping opposition to letting the future Darren Gibsons playing for the ROI, no apology needed for their behaviour just lets move on

See above and the need for a new mutual agreement.


There is no onus on the FAI to change anthems or flags as none are contentious. The issues are all up north

OK, I've no problem with the South's anthem or flag and I'd like a new anthem at NI games. We disagree about the extent to which it's a hot issue.


Anyone who brings a UJ to Windsor Park should be thrown out

Slight over-reaction, eh?


I totally disagree with them when they say they have to consider the views of fans who wish to keep it

Point taken. Resistance from those opposed to change needn't always be pandered to, of course- if what they were defending was some horrible racist ditty, say. But it isn't. So evolution rather than revolution (although I'd prefer us to install Gloria or Alternative Ulster as the new anthem tomorrow).


The people of NI have a right to know why this is not the case, not just NI fans

If you're that bothered, take it up with your assemblyman/ woman. And s/he'll say, quote "I'd love to help Dan, but there's no chance of a vote".


As stated, only England and NI do not have their own anthem. And only NI's is contentoius...Playing a UK anthem while campainging against a UK team is a bit silly no

I understand why you think it silly, but it's easily explained. We'd prefer both to remain part of a united Britain (as for centuries) while having a separate NI team (as for a century). No contradiction there, and actually your interest looks a bit obsessive.


It is very relevant NI and ROI are not foreign under UK law. I'll not explain again

Fine, don't. It was irrelevant the first time. Everyone recognises there's a border.


The FAI was forced to be set up after the bigotted IFA made life impossible for the Dublin clubs

For God's sake man, get over it, it was 90 years ago! Nobody forced the FAI to do anythng, it was their choice.


NI and the ROI merging are no the same as Germany and China merging. Only a loyalist bigot would make such a stupid analogy, ffs grow up

Equally, try not to be so excitable, and don't assume everyone who disagrees with you is loyalist bigot. There's no chance of the two merging, so to that limited extent at least there's a parallel.


Saying the IFA are orange tinted is hardly inaccurate. Their chairman is an Orangeman. He was elected by people who knew the image that would send out. This hardly looks good if they are trying to implement a FFA campaign. Saying it is orange tinted and nearly there are hardly contradictions either. The IFA used to be very orange now its somewhat orange. One day it may be neutral? Not difficult to grasp

I've no time for the Orange Order and (separately) I think Raymond Kennedy is a bit lacklustre. It doesn't follow that the IFA is orange-tinted any more than Delaney's antics mean the FAI and their team's followers are deluded fantasists.


Linfield have sorted themselves out, but when that deal is gone we can move on

We're moving on already.


The OWC website is much less open to debate than this one. The tern taigs is not used, but beggars is

They're equally open to debate. Without wanting to trade too much 'whataboutery', we're on a 1000 post thread full of people who want to abolish another country's team for what can't be more than vindictive reasons. What sort of a debate is that?


Ironic for a state maintained by the public sector (ie English taxpayer)!

Ha ha. And the relevance of that being what exactly? Look, I don't like and don't use the term beggars. It's relevance to British government finance generally is a bit limited, no?


The NI fans group is mainly a closed shop. The have a section for "mainlanders" ffs!

It isn't; so what? That's where they (including me) live. Spare us the pretend surprise/ outrage.


Their £5 donation goes straight to the UVF

Well I laughed. But you need to work on some of the other material.


There is a strong, separate, case for an AIL. One club e.g Linfield should not be able to stop this should the clubs desire it

If Linfield don't want to join it, it almost certainly won't happen as Glentoran and other NI clubs wouldn't join either.


I presume you are suitably thankful to the Free State for sending ambulances & fire engines etc. to save Belfast and to Dev for persuading Hitler to stop bombing our people there (since the RAF couldn't be arsed defending them

Yes, the people of Belfast were grateful then and since. I remember it being mentioned after the Stardust nightclub fire in Artane in 1981, when the Belfast brigade drove South to help their Dublin colleagues.

De Valera wasn't entirely successful in persuading Hitler not to bomb Dublin, btw.

[seanfhear]

Basically, you have been unable to substantiate your spurious allegations.

There's no "we'll" about it - it was YOU, and YOU alone, who made the allegation.

Indeed, your allegation regarding the "common place" usage of the term "taigs" has been refuted by dan (whom, it appears is able to "access all areas" on "that MB"

He states above:

"The term taigs is not used"

Now, are you telling me that dantheman is really a Unionist?:eek:
I do have the odd look at OWC site and though I do not see the term taig used The ROI are often referred to as Beggars.

A little bit of more work to be done on respecting the neighbours and losing the old bigoted mindset.

Anyway if an All-Ireland team had the sticking power (and the tenacity) of this thread then it would be a force to be reckoned with.

If this could be translated to the football team there would be no stopping us;).

[Gather round]

Anyway if an All-Ireland team had the sticking power (and the tenacity) of this thread then it would be a force to be reckoned with.

If this could be translated to the football team there would be no stopping us;).

I thought it already had, following your excellent performance in Paris. Alas too many of the contributions to this thread are equivalent to Robbie Keane stumbling over his own feet after going round Lloris.

[Not Brazil]

A little bit of more work to be done on respecting the neighbours and losing the old bigoted mindset.


Indeed - respecting the right and desire of the IFA and it's International representive teams to remain autonomous would be a good starting point.

[seanfhear]

I thought it already had, following your excellent performance in Paris. Alas too many of the contributions to this thread are equivalent to Robbie Keane stumbling over his own feet after going round Lloris.
Sir David Healy would have knocked that in, well especially a couple of years ago.:p

And then we would all be going to the world cup. Hooray.

Instead of trawling the internet to give this life without world cup qualification some meaning.

[ifk101]

Sir David Healy would have knocked that in, well especially a couple of years ago.:p

And then we would all be going to the world cup. Hooray.

Instead of trawling the internet to give this life without world cup qualification some meaning.

Healy would not get into our side. If I'm not mistaken he's struggling to hold onto his place in the NI side as it is. He's hardly a viable candidate for a starting position in an unified team. Indeed the only current NI international that could possibly place in an unified team is Johnny Evans - but even he is not first choice for his club side. Which further highlights that an unified team would be nowhere near a power in Europe to the extent that it would justify merging the two associations on purely sporting grounds.

[seanfhear]

Healy would not get into our side. If I'm not mistaken he's struggling to hold onto his place in the NI side as it is. He's hardly a viable candidate for a starting position in an unified team. Indeed the only current NI international that could possibly place in an unified team is Johnny Evans - but even he is not first choice for his club side. Which further highlights that an unified team would be nowhere near a power in Europe to the extent that it would justify merging the two associations on purely sporting grounds.
Healy of a few years ago was knocking goals in for fun at international level. Some players just seem to do well at international level. Ireland and Northern Ireland have had them down through the years.
Johnny Evans, Arrann Hughes, Steve Davis and Kyle Laverty would all be in with a shout of getting into an all Ireland side. As I say sometimes there are players that just do well at international level for whatever reason.

Maik Taylor would be a great back-up if Given were injured. He has performed brilliantly for NI down the years.

Historically there have been times when NI have had better players than they have now but they did okay in was it 3 out of the last 4 qualifying campaigns so they obviously have some good players.

Anyway I have drawn myself into this and I do not see any realistic chance of it happening for at least 10 years.

[ifk101]

Maik Taylor would be a great back-up if Given were injured. He has performed brilliantly for NI down the years.

Would Maik Taylor be eligible for an unified team????? :D


Historically there have been times when NI have had better players than they have now but they did okay in was it 3 out of the last 4 qualifying campaigns so they obviously have some good players.

It depends on how you define okay. Granted NI have had some impressive home results in recent years but they are incapable of winning away from home and they are more than capable of getting hammered at home by decidedly weak opposition.

Fact is that we have a much bigger and better pool of players to chose from than NI.

[seanfhear]

Would Maik Taylor be eligible for an unified team????? :D



It depends on how you define okay. Granted NI have had some impressive home results in recent years but they are incapable of winning away from home and they are more than capable of getting hammered at home by decidedly weak opposition.

Fact is that we have a much bigger and better pool of players to chose from than NI.
Our away record is nothing to write home about either.

The better and bigger the pool that any team has to choose from will bring better results.

We all know it makes sense. But on the Island of Ireland not everything that makes sense is sensibly utilised.

There are a lot of crazy people on this Island on all sides of every angle.

You will never be bored if you try to understand all the different types of Irish people.

It might just do your head in though:confused:

[ifk101]

Our away record is nothing to write home about either.

The only teams that NI have beaten away from home in recent memory are San Marino and Liechtenstein. We're no great shakes away from home but we are still a lot more competitive than NI are.


The better and bigger the pool that any team has to choose from will bring better results.

Only if those players are motivated to do so.


We all know it makes sense.

No we don't.


But on the Island of Ireland not everything that makes sense is sensibly utilised.

There are a lot of crazy people on this Island on all sides of every angle.

You will never be bored if you try to understand all the different types of Irish people.

It might just do your head in though:confused:

Just learn to accept diversity. And take two aspirins for your head.

[janeymac]

How do you envisage that arising?

Genuine question.

Gibson was one case which could have ended up in the courts - an Irish citizen (identity Irish) did not have the same rights to be eligible for selection as say and Irish citizens like Kevin Kilbane (born in the UK, or any of the Irish lads born in the Republic). Gibson was being discriminated against according to the Irish Constitution as all Irish citizens are meant to have equal opportunities. And the FAI is an Irish State funded organisation.

Within the British Associations - say a player, born in one country (say Scotland, with Scottish parents), but moves at a young age to England (unlike Patrick Viera), cannot opt to play for the country he grew up in. That player is being discriminated against.


In the hypothetical event of there being a, singular, Irish team, would you uphold the right of someone born in Northern Ireland, going to Court if neccessary, in order to have the right to "express his national identity", by declaring to play for one of the British Associations?

I would certainly support that happening - it seems to work very well with regard to the Olympics so I don't think it would be even necessary to go to Court to have the same rights for footballers.

[Not Brazil]

Gibson was one case which could have ended up in the courts - an Irish citizen (identity Irish) did not have the same rights to be eligible for selection as say and Irish citizens like Kevin Kilbane (born in the UK, or any of the Irish lads born in the Republic). Gibson was being discriminated against according to the Irish Constitution as all Irish citizens are meant to have equal opportunities. And the FAI is an Irish State funded organisation.

Within the British Associations - say a player, born in one country (say Scotland, with Scottish parents), but moves at a young age to England (unlike Patrick Viera), cannot opt to play for the country he grew up in. That player is being discriminated against.


Diputes regarding FIFA Statutes are dealt with by the Court Of Arbitration in Sport - member Associations are bound by this.

Members have the following obligations:
(a) to comply fully with the Statutes, regulations, directives and decisions
of FIFA bodies at any time as well as the decisions of the Court of
Arbitration for Sport (CAS) passed on appeal on the basis of art. 62 par. 1
of the FIFA Statutes.

FIFA make their rules for membership - and members are bound to abide by them.

In your example of the British Associations, I believe the player would be able to play for England - that is my interpretation of FIFA Statute 16, which states:

A Player who, under the terms of art. 15, is eligible to represent more than
one Association on account of his nationality, may play in an international
match for one of these Associations only if, in addition to having the relevant
nationality, he fulfils at least one of the following conditions:

(d) He has lived continuously on the territory of the relevant Association
for at least two years.

Subject, of course, to him not have representing any other country in a competitive "A" International.

[janeymac]

De Valera wasn't entirely successful in persuading Hitler not to bomb Dublin, btw.

Some claim that random bombings were to remind Dev that we were meant to be neutral and shouldn't be giving Britain, their enemy, a 'dig out'. I'm of the opinion that is generally claimed that the German pilots got their navigation wrong.

The IFA (and FIFA) should be very grateful to Dev - the IFA would probably have had to spend their cash on rebuilding IFA HQ & Windsor, rather than bailing out FIFA.

[janeymac]

Diputes regarding FIFA Statutes are dealt with by the Court Of Arbitration in Sport - member Associations are bound by this.

Members have the following obligations:
(a) to comply fully with the Statutes, regulations, directives and decisions
of FIFA bodies at any time as well as the decisions of the Court of
Arbitration for Sport (CAS) passed on appeal on the basis of art. 62 par. 1
of the FIFA Statutes.

FIFA make their rules for membership - and members are bound to abide by them.

In your example of the British Associations, I believe the player would be able to play for England - that is my interpretation of FIFA Statute 16, which states:

A Player who, under the terms of art. 15, is eligible to represent more than
one Association on account of his nationality, may play in an international
match for one of these Associations only if, in addition to having the relevant
nationality, he fulfils at least one of the following conditions:

(d) He has lived continuously on the territory of the relevant Association
for at least two years.

Subject, of course, to him not have representing any other country in a competitive "A" International.

I actually don't know what the story is now with the British Associations, but as far as I know this is what happened to Ryan Giggs. They say Michael Owens was lucky that the maternity hospital he was born in was in England rather than Wales.

FIFA bodies are subject to local laws. For instance, South African rugby has positive discrimination towards blacks (3/4 have to be played on the international team) which the IRB doesn't argue against.

[Not Brazil]

I actually don't know what the story is now with the British Associations,

I've told you what the story is now - Article 16 of the FIFA Statutes.

[janeymac]

I've told you what the story is now - Article 16 of the FIFA Statues.

So Cory Evans could be declaring for England then?

[Gather round]

Healy would not get into our side. If I'm not mistaken he's struggling to hold onto his place in the NI side as it is

As of the Serbia friendly he's out of our starting XI. Were there a qualifier in March rather than having to wait until September, and assuming everyone fit, I think most NI fans would expect our strongest side, depending on opposition to be:

Taylor

Hughes
Evans
Craigan or McAuley
McCartney

Clingan
Davis
McGinn or Baird
Brunt or McCann

Paterson or Feeney
Lafferty


Granted NI have had some impressive home results in recent years but they are incapable of winning away from home and they are more than capable of getting hammered at home by decidedly weak opposition

True about the inability to beat anyone bar the village teams away; but since collapsing at home to Iceland in September 2006 we have played 10 qualifiers at Windsor, winning eight. The one other defeat was to the group winners who also beat Czechia and Poland away, and who are on current form the seventh best team in Europe. Hardly weak opposition. I've ignored friendlies, were you thinking of them?


We're no great shakes away from home but we are still a lot more competitive than NI are

In the last couple of series you've beaten Cyprus (once, as well as shipping a rugby score to them), and Georgia in a neutral country. Fair enough, you can only play what and where it turns up, but it's hardly that impressive. In the equally recent past, you failed to beat one sixth seed home or away and labored to a 96th minute winner against the worst team in Europe. Oh, and draws- whether after 90 minutes or 120- don't count as wins.


but they did okay in was it 3 out of the last 4 qualifying campaigns

Too generous Sean. 2004 was a train wreck; 2006 better (although not better than 2002, we only won one other game apart from beating England); 2010 slightly below par as we were seeded third. Only in 2008 qualifying did we do that well.


Gibson was one case which could have ended up in the courts - an Irish citizen (identity Irish) did not have the same rights to be eligible for selection as say and Irish citizens like Kevin Kilbane (born in the UK, or any of the Irish lads born in the Republic). Gibson was being discriminated against according to the Irish Constitution as all Irish citizens are meant to have equal opportunities. And the FAI is an Irish State funded organisation

That's all a bit hypothetical. Even if it had gone to court, there's a good chance they'd have thrown it out- the Law ignores trivia.


I'm of the opinion that is generally claimed that the German pilots got their navigation wrong

Not only would they have needed to have got lost between Dublin and
Liverpool- but also fail to spot the difference between an east- and west-facing coastline. Maybe the Luftwaffe crew forgot their compass that night?


The IFA (and FIFA) should be very grateful to Dev - the IFA would probably have had to spend their cash on rebuilding IFA HQ & Windsor, rather than bailing out FIFA

You what? Listen, have a word with IFK. He had some drugs available up-thread; you clearly need to change yours.


So Cory Evans could be declaring for England then?

Theoretically, I suppose he could. In practice, already being a full NI international suggests he won't.

[Not Brazil]

So Cory Evans could be declaring for England then?

he could - but won't.

Very proud Northern Irish family, the Evans

[gspain]

The only teams that NI have beaten away from home in recent memory are San Marino and Liechtenstein. We're no great shakes away from home but we are still a lot more competitive than NI are.



Perhaps you'd care to list our competitve away wins over decent opposition eg the top 2 seeds in the group.

Last one I can think of is Scotland 1987 (and they may have been 3rd seeds). Before that let me see Czechoslovakia 1967. Before that you'd be grasping at straws to include an amateur Denmark side in 1957.

We did however beat Northern Ireland 4-0 in 1994 although they were probably 4th seeds.

Northern Ireland haven't beaten any decent teams away from home either in competitive games if you don't count Spain, West Germany, Romania & Bulgaria. :rolleyes:

[ifk101]

Perhaps you'd care to list our competitve away wins over decent opposition eg the top 2 seeds in the group.

We beat France away in our last game ;)


Northern Ireland haven't beaten any decent teams away from home either in competitive games if you don't count Spain, West Germany, Romania & Bulgaria. :rolleyes:

I said "recent memory". But quote results from the early 1980s and nitpick all you want. :rolleyes:

[Gather round]

We beat France away in our last game

Your memory struggles with a game 23 days ago? On second thoughts, don't give the drugs to Janey Mac, take them yourself.

[ifk101]

Your memory struggles with a game 23 days ago? On second thoughts, don't give the drugs to Janey Mac, take them yourself.

A game of football is 90 mins. What was the score after 90 mins? Extra time and penalties are used to decide which team progresses to the next round. We won the game but lost in extra-time.

If Crusaders beat Newry tomorrow 1-0 after 90 mins - will you accept that as a victory or will you ask for an extra 30 mins to played?

[Gather round]

A game of football is 90 mins. What was the score after 90 mins? Extra time and penalties are used to decide which team progresses to the next round. We won the game but lost in extra-time.

If Crusaders beat Newry tomorrow 1-0 after 90 mins - will you accept that as a victory or will you ask for an extra 30 mins to played?

A game of football can either 90 or 120 minutes; if the Crues-Newry game was the second leg of a cup tie and we'd lost the first 1-0 yes, I'd be pretty insistent on extra time. (For the obvious reason, but also just in case some of the nutters on this thread thought Newry should progress, without actually winning but as they would otherwise be under-represented in IFA competitions or something).

You drew. Get over it.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Very proud Northern Irish family, the Evans

Yes, the Welsh must be wondering when they left....

[co. down green]

Gibson was one case which could have ended up in the courts - an Irish citizen (identity Irish) did not have the same rights to be eligible for selection as say and Irish citizens like Kevin Kilbane (born in the UK, or any of the Irish lads born in the Republic). Gibson was being discriminated against according to the Irish Constitution as all Irish citizens are meant to have equal opportunities. And the FAI is an Irish State funded organisation.

This guy (http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:nyN8dzAauSkJ:ourweecountry.ipbhost. com/index.php%3Fshowtopic%3D27827%26view%3Dgetlastpost +henry+mcstay+our+wee+country&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk) on the north’s forum needs to take a ‘chill pill’ over Darron Gibson.

“Because I hate the sectarian wee toerag to the core”

“Most of all by the scumbags at the FAI, who ripped up a gentleman's agreement to peddle sectarian sh*te in Northern Irish football to further their own interests”


Get over it lads, He’s Irish, he plays for Ireland!

[dantheman]

A game of football can either 90 or 120 minutes; if the Crues-Newry game was the second leg of a cup tie and we'd lost the first 1-0 yes, I'd be pretty insistent on extra time. (For the obvious reason, but also just in case some of the nutters on this thread thought Newry should progress, without actually winning but as they would otherwise be under-represented in IFA competitions or something).

You drew. Get over it.

Rightly or wrongly, The match ultimately was a draw. Bit like most of the matches in the group!

The point above about NI and Republic winning away against top seeds is very true. The only difference I can see is that the Republic have been more consistent at beating the lower ranked teams away and drawing aginst some of the higher ranked one. The word here is consistent, NI also have had some very good away draws (e.g Germany)

[Gather round]

This guy on the north’s forum needs to take a ‘chill pill’ over Darron Gibson.

Get over it lads, He’s Irish, he plays for Ireland!

Agreed.


Yes, the Welsh must be wondering when [the Evans brothers' family] left....

Get over it lads, they're Northern Irish, they play for Northern Ireland.


The only difference I can see is that the Republic have been more consistent at beating the lower ranked teams away and drawing aginst some of the higher ranked one

In the last 10 years, NI have won three of 25 away qualifiers (against San Marino, Liechtenstein and Malta). For all the battling draws, that record just ain't any good, so being slightly better than it is neither here nor there. We haven't beaten a bigger and higher ranked country since Euro 96 qualifying (Austria) or one of the top two seeds/ favorites since WC 1986 (Romania).

[SaucyJack]

[QUOTE=co. down green;1292164]This guy (http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:nyN8dzAauSkJ:ourweecountry.ipbhost. com/index.php%3Fshowtopic%3D27827%26view%3Dgetlastpost +henry+mcstay+our+wee+country&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk) on the north’s forum needs to take a ‘chill pill’ over Darron Gibson.

“Because I hate the sectarian wee toerag to the core”

“Most of all by the scumbags at the FAI, who ripped up a gentleman's agreement to peddle sectarian sh*te in Northern Irish football to further their own interests”


Get over it lads, He’s Irish, he plays for Ireland![/QUOT



He's pretty bitter, and McStay isn't the first in recent times to play for us(according to that poster), it'd probably be Mark McKeever who was playing for the R.O.I U-18's and U-21's back in the late 90's.

[Greenbod]

A game of football can either 90 or 120 minutes; if the Crues-Newry game was the second leg of a cup tie and we'd lost the first 1-0 yes, I'd be pretty insistent on extra time. (For the obvious reason, but also just in case some of the nutters on this thread thought Newry should progress, without actually winning but as they would otherwise be under-represented in IFA competitions or something).

You drew. Get over it.

Shouldn't really get into this....I accept the tie was lost (have to), but you are technically incorrect. Ireland won the game in Paris 1-0. If we hadn't won the game there wouldn't have been extra time. A game is 90 minutes plus injury time. If not, we should get France back to Dublin to play the remaining 30 minutes from the first game! Extra time was played because France won in Dublin and we won in Paris.

[Gather round]

Shouldn't really get into this

OK, don't. You drew, get over it.

[paul_oshea]

Predator im gaa, but im sorry its still deeply entrenched in everything catholic. I mean county board meetings start with the prayer in irish still in some places.

Although everyone is encouraged to play and I personally love to see it, its still deeply rooted in catholicism

[gspain]

Shouldn't really get into this....I accept the tie was lost (have to), but you are technically incorrect. Ireland won the game in Paris 1-0. If we hadn't won the game there wouldn't have been extra time. A game is 90 minutes plus injury time. If not, we should get France back to Dublin to play the remaining 30 minutes from the first game! Extra time was played because France won in Dublin and we won in Paris.

When a game goes to extra time the result recorded is the one after 120 minutes. FIFA record the match as a draw and it is recognized as such in the list of results and for the FIFA rankings. The FAI will do likewise.

Of course we should have won and would have won but for a cheating Frenchman and a blind Swedish linesman but unfortunately we didn't.