Norn Iron rubbish part 23452346526

[ifk101]

Basically, FIFA's concept of "footballing nationhood" is an entirely separate construct from that of political/constitutional nationhood.

This is an interesting point EG and something those calling for an united team should consider. Indeed the current application of the eligibility rules with respect to the island of Ireland highlights the concept of footballing nationhood as it permits NI born players to play for the team representing their nation. Given your understanding of the footballing nationhood concept, it's somewhat amusing to think back to your stance on the eligibility rules thread.

[seanfhear]

I think it's inevitable that some players from Northern Ireland make it big for the Republic - Gibson has every chance of becoming a top class footballer.

Obviously the current eligibility rules don't help the IFA - however, them's the rules, and we've got to get on with it.

In the hypothetical situation that every "nationalist" youngster in Northern Ireland decided to play fror the Republic Of Ireland (not going to happen, as decisions "for footballing reasons" will come into play), it would be a terrible shame. However, the IFA will always have a pool of players ready, willing, and able to play for the Association's International representative teams with pride, honour, and dignity.

The basic rule of thumb is this - if you don't want to play for us, good riddance.

Wounded, but not killed, would be the outcome for the IFA.

I think that such a scenario would serve to further strengthen the determination of Northern Ireland supporters to see their team remain autonomous - in any eventually.
If you changed the "good riddance" to the "best of luck to ya" then i would not have much argument with that

[Not Brazil]

An honourable position NB.

Within all of that, there are big challenges for the IFA...not least, what can we do to limit the leakage?

As you are aware, I have my views on that (Anthem etc), and I firmly believe that everything the IFA do in relation to these questions should be for the betterment and strengthening of the "Northern Ireland" brand.

The IFA have big decisions to make - whatever they do will not be to the liking of everyone.

Undoubtedly, we have supporters who feel that any change = capitulation to those who seek our demise.

I firmly believe those supporters are misguided, but I have to take on board their views, respect them, and offer my (alternative) views.

The one thing that Northern Ireland fans have in common is a burning desire to see our International team progress and flourish - different ideas on how that can happen, grown up discussions to be had, and big decisions to be made.

I don't doubt that we will rise to the challenges, and work things out for our benefit - whatever deck of cards we're dealt.

[Not Brazil]

If you changed the "good riddance" to the "best of luck to ya" then i would not have much argument with that

How about a simple, polite, "Goodbye"?

[Gather round]

I've had a few beers in Germany alright - but I'm not basing my opinion completely on that - more so on German music and literature

Right, with you now. You're basing sweeping generalisations on the entire German nation on listening to some CDs and reading modern novels. Fine, if a bit superficial.


The point is, that nationalists are not hostile to British culture in the same way as most unionist politicians (who are elected by protestants/unionists) are downright hostile to Irish culture. Is it any wonder nationalists get ****ed off?

Ha ha, be serious if you can. You're only hostile to our culture to the extent of wanting to abolish it. Where did you come up with that pearl, the Ring Cycle? Sorrows of young Janey? I despair sometimes ;)


I'm scratching my head to think of any British person who has done anything to champion Irish culture (nor do I expect them to!)

You've just named one, famous Seamus.


Those fans/players don't have a sense of statehood/national identity with Northern Ireland. It is big leap in 'logic' to suggest that they also, by extension, oppose it's existence

Hardly. It follows from the tangible evidence that hundreds of thousands of people in Northern Ireland who don't 'identify' with it (probably the majority of them) demonstrate that lack of identity by by voting in every election for parties whose main political program is that, er Northern Ireland shouldn't exist. Do keep up.


If one were to take Northern Ireland as an entity, and ask each person "do you think that the two football associations in Ireland, the FAI and IFA, should amalgamate and as a result, produce one representative international football team?", then I would say there would be a good chance of the overall result being - Yes! But, that is not the point

Depends. If you replaced that gently loaded question with a more honest- if equally loaded- alternative, maybe not. How about "do you think that the larger of the two football associations in Ireland take over the other, which would then cease to exist?", then the likelihood would be rather reduced, don't ye think?


Because, the Northern Ireland international team is one of the only outlets for people of the 'Irish' unionist persuasion in NI, and for the purposes of this discussion - on the island as a whole, to follow or support in any kind of competitive arena

Only in the sense that the Black Mountain's one of the only hills overlooking Belfast. I'm able to support Northern Ireland sportsmen and women, and teams, both individually, under the NI name, and in larger all-Ireland and all-Britain teams. As I've mentioned, I'd prefer a NI cricket side, but the absence of one isn't that big a problem.


it's better to just let things take their course naturally

That's more like it.

[Gather round]

Hopefully Darron Gibson and Marc Wilson do make a big impression for the Republic. This may encourage young Duffy at Everton to play for the republic

It might, if that big impression happened. On the other hand, it might not. Aren't you just indulging in wishful thinking? I'm guessing Duffy's more likely to be influenced by the guys he's already playing with in the NI u-19 and u-21 teams.


I think the opportunity for International players to strut their stuff at home matches in a ground like the new Landsdowne Road may also have a positive impact on players choosing to play for the republic

I think that's probaby irrelevant. Lansdowne's an impressive stadium, but top players turn out in similar in England most weeks. One more may not make much difference.


Would this encourage more young players to declare for the Republic and if this were to happen would the NI team begin to wither on the vine?

Possibly; definitely not. You could equally and pointlessly ask whether if any more Republic of Ireland fans, players, assistant managers or FA chief executives embarrass themselves and the country by gurning about unlucky referee decisions, would the national side withdraw from FIFA and sulk for the next Euro Championships and World Cup?

[The Fly]

Hardly. It follows from the tangible evidence that hundreds of thousands of people in Northern Ireland who don't 'identify' with it (probably the majority of them) demonstrate that lack of identity by by voting in every election for parties whose main political program is that, er Northern Ireland shouldn't exist. Do keep up.

..........as opposed to the Unionist/other parties whose main 'political program', as you put it, is Northern Irish nationalism. Do keep up!

Has your residency in the West Midlands induced amnesia or are you being deliberately dense? I presume that you are from Northern ireland, in which case which party do you expect those said hundreds of thousands to vote for?

If indeed you are from NI, then you know full well that tribalism rules the political scene here. Are Nationalists of a right wing persuasion catered for? Similiarly, are Unionists of a left wing persuasion catered for?
Answer - No!
Why?..........because the tribe, invariably, comes first. Are you keeping up GR?

Finally, Fianna Fail are coming to Northern Ireland, perhaps they will provide an outlet, for those hundreds of thousands you refer to, that would satisfy you! :rolleyes:

[The Fly]

Only in the sense that the Black Mountain's one of the only hills overlooking Belfast. I'm able to support Northern Ireland sportsmen and women, and teams, both individually, under the NI name, and in larger all-Ireland and all-Britain teams. As I've mentioned, I'd prefer a NI cricket side, but the absence of one isn't that big a problem.


Good for you, but my point still holds!

[Acornvilla]

i am so bored of this thread....

[Gather round]

..........as opposed to the Unionist parties whose main 'political program', as you put it, is Northern Irish nationalism. Do keep up!

Er, what's your point? I answered your quip about there being no logical leap between not identifying with NI on the one hand, and wanting it not to exist on the other. Basically by pointing out the obvious- the people who don't identify DO tend to go out and vote for 'let's abolish the border' parties. Didn't you understand it?


Has your residency in the West Midlands induced amnesia or are you being deliberately dense?

No, even the pressure of answering the same witless wind-up 60 times on this thread hasn't dimmed my faculties, thanks.


I presume that you are from Northern Ireland, in which case which party do you expect those said hundreds of thousands to vote for?

I am. I recognise that they vote for SF and SDLP. Are you assuming that they have no alternative now and forever? Bit limiting, that. They could- with enough will and organisation- persuade other parties to stand, then vote for them. You know, Labour, Conservative, LibDem, Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, that sort of thing. But if they continue to vote SF and SDLP- basically single-issue parties- then I'll assume, quite reasonably, that they agree with the issue.


If indeed you are from NI, then you know full well that tribalism rules the political scene here

You don't say. I hear Queen Anne's dead and all.


Are Nationalists of a right wing persuasion catered for? Similiarly are Unionists of a left wing persuasion catered for? Answer - No!

See above. Of course I recognise- as a left-leaning Ulster unionist- the difficulty of finding the right (no pun intended) party to vote for. But you know what- it's the same over here. In many constituencies in England, the only choice is the big three. I don't support any of them, so my choices are abstain, spoil or concentrate on some other form of politics. I'm not damning people for voting nationalist, just recognising- as you seem unwilling to- that most do so by choice, not compulsion.


Why?..........because the tribe, invariably, comes first. Are you keeping up GR?

Fine, thanks. Your mixture of cliche, pointless statement of the obvious and occasional cod-sociology is a bit disjointed, but I'm managing OK.


Finally, Fianna Fail are coming to Northern Ireland, perhaps they will provide an outlet, for those hundreds of thousands you refer to, that would satisfy you! :rolleyes:

I'll react once they've contested an election. Although I don't see much initial impression. The other parties are well-established and- as you may have noticed- Fianna Fail's image both home and abroad at the moment is about as popular as typhoid.

[The Fly]

Er, what's your point? I answered your quip about there being no logical leap between not identifying with NI on the one hand, and wanting it not to exist on the other. Basically by pointing out the obvious- the people who don't identify DO tend to go out and vote for 'let's abolish the border' parties. Didn't you understand it?


Mine was not a quip, it was an observation. It seems you cannot detect tone in people's posts. Once again, for which party do you expect those people to vote for? Which party presents a viable alternative at this time?
Does a 'Northern Ireland Nationalist Party' exist GR?
I'll resist answering for you.





No, even the pressure of answering the same witless wind-up 60 times on this thread hasn't dimmed my faculties, thanks.

It has dimmed your logic and observational skills. If I were to reply to posts in a similiar fashion to yourself, I would suggest that these faculties have escaped you for quite sometime, or maybe just in your excursions on foot.ie, but then.....I wouldn't do that. ;)

You also mention 'wind-ups' in your post. To that I will simply state, in case it has passed you by, that you do post a lot more on foot.ie than you do on your own supporters website - OWC.
Hmmmm........for some reason I'm getting images of pots and keetles in my mind.



I am. I recognise that they vote for SF and SDLP. Are you assuming that they have no alternative now and forever? Bit limiting, that. They could- with enough will and organisation- persuade other parties to stand, then vote for them. You know, Labour, Conservative, LibDem, Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, that sort of thing. But if they continue to vote SF and SDLP- basically single-issue parties- then I'll assume, quite reasonably, that they agree with the issue.

They vote SF and SDLP because there is no viable (tribal) alternative - at this time, and hasn't been for a long time. The same applies to voters of the UUP and DUP, it is limiting - welcome back to NI. I have never stated that there will be no viable option for either community in the future. It has only been very recently that alternatives, in the form of Fianna Fail and the Conservatives, have appeared on the horizon. Has this fact escaped you as well.
In addition to this, if you believe that the SDLP and SF are "basically single issue parties", then I'll assume, quite reasonably, that you believe the UUP and DUP to be likewise.

Change happens in increments, not in one foul swoop! I recommend that you read the works of Edmund Burke.



See above. Of course I recognise- as a left-leaning Ulster unionist- the difficulty of finding the right (no pun intended) party to vote for. But you know what- it's the same over here. In many constituencies in England, the only choice is the big three. I don't support any of them, so my choices are abstain, spoil or concentrate on some other form of politics. I'm not damning people for voting nationalist, just recognising- as you seem unwilling to- that most do so by choice, not compulsion.

Of course people vote by choice, but in Northern Ireland voting for political parties is done along tribal lines, not along normal left-wing/right-wing lines. This is the reason why voter turn-out at Assembly and Westminister elections in Northern Ireland remains so high in comparison to other Western democracies - people want to make sure their 'tribe' gets in and receives as much representation as it can!

It's not the same in England, I'll ask you again; are you being deliberately dense?
The assembly here in NI does not operate on the 'first past the post' system, unless you have forgotten. It is based on the principle of power-sharing under the D'Hondt method to ensure that Northern Ireland's largest political communities, the Unionist and Nationalist communities both participate in governing the region.
Another important example for you, every MLA is officially designated as either Nationalist, Unionist or Other.
The only 'substantial' cross-community party in Northern Ireland is the Alliance Party, which officially designates itself as 'Other'. Despite this, it has remained a minnow in NI politics.
Are you keeping up this time GR?
It's not that hard really, all it takes is logic!






Fine, thanks. Your mixture of cliche, pointless statement of the obvious and occasional cod-sociology is a bit disjointed, but I'm managing OK.


I feel obliged to state the obvious while 'conversing' with you GR, rather like a parent does to a child. Though it seems to have little effect, producing as it does, replies containing obvious contradictions and frankly, stupidty.




I'll react once they've contested an election. Although I don't see much initial impression.


You don't see much initial impressions........hmmm.......what have I been saying again :rolleyes:. Once more, change happens, (especially in NI), in increments.



The other parties are well-established and- as you may have noticed- Fianna Fail's image both home and abroad at the moment is about as popular as typhoid.

Bravo - "they are well established". Maybe some logic is penetrating through at last. To make the final leap GR, add on to that........."along tribal lines."

[ArdeeBhoy]

Good last post there by The Fly. And one of many in response to a rather patronising tone!

And whilst I don't agree with EG, his 'new improved more mellow' approach states a position far more eloquently in one post re.the IFA 'situation', than his 'countrymen' (Are they 'British' or 'Irish' today??) :rolleyes: have managed in 50 or more....

Though would acknowledge credit to NB identifying certain empathy with certain Irish traits!
Which we wait to see if denied ??

[Stuttgart88]

Does the fact that FIFA recognises the right of NI born players to represent the ROI (and vice versa?) not suggest that they may be sympathetic to two associations (consensually) merging, perhaps recognising unusual if not unique circumstances?

Just because they've never done so in the past doesn't mean they never would. My granny's 95 and hasn't died yet, but it doesn't mean she never will.

Also, when countries break away from a larger power they're unlikely to say "we're now 100% independent but in order to stay competitive in international football we'd like to underplay our nationalistic instincts and be part of a larger interntaional football team".

[Acornvilla]

Does the fact that FIFA recognises the right of NI born players to represent the ROI (and vice versa?) not suggest that they may be sympathetic to two associations (consensually) merging, perhaps recognising unusual if not unique circumstances?

Just because they've never done so in the past doesn't mean they never would. My granny's 95 and hasn't died yet, but it doesn't mean she never will.

Also, when countries break away from a larger power they're unlikely to say "we're now 100% independent but in order to stay competitive in international football we'd like to underplay our nationalistic instincts and be part of a larger interntaional football team".
very well done madam :)

[Stuttgart88]

I should have added that that particular granny is a hypothetical one, a bit like Stephen Ireland's.

[Riddickcule]

We can't look at the Setanta Cup as an excuse for not seeting up an AIL.

The fact is, if the best clubs from both the LOI and the IPL played in a new 12 team league (preferbly in control of the FAI/IFA), there would certainly be a major broadcasting deal, sponsorship deals, marketing etc.

Thats if, both the FAI/IFA are commited to it, it would and should work, as for the AI international team, it can work and its inevitable, but if the Nordies are so fussy about it i say don't bother, it's stupid at this stage the level of patriotism up there.I'm not even that proud to be Irish, mainly because i'm not even full Irish.

The fact in my view is most english folk ridicule the whole NI situation, for those of you who think otherwise, fine, but whenever i'd have a conversation with an English person, and the topic is Norn Iron, it's just frowned upon over there i'm sorry.

Because i'm not even fully irish and better yet i'm not even Catholic, i'm for an AIL and an AI team, purely for football reasons, and not political.

[Stuttgart88]

An AI league could easily happen without an AI team, no?

I'm of the opinion that if NI or ROI fans don't want an AI team then they shouldn't be made to have one. But I'd hope that for the sake of improving standards and finances (if a link could be reasonably expected) of their teams' league that neither would object to an AI league.

[Acornvilla]

We can't look at the Setanta Cup as an excuse for not seeting up an AIL.

The fact is, if the best clubs from both the LOI and the IPL played in a new 12 team league (preferbly in control of the FAI/IFA), there would certainly be a major broadcasting deal, sponsorship deals, marketing etc.

Thats if, both the FAI/IFA are commited to it, it would and should work, as for the AI international team, it can work and its inevitable, but if the Nordies are so fussy about it i say don't bother, it's stupid at this stage the level of patriotism up there.I'm not even that proud to be Irish, mainly because i'm not even full Irish.

The fact in my view is most english folk ridicule the whole NI situation, for those of you who think otherwise, fine, but whenever i'd have a conversation with an English person, and the topic is Norn Iron, it's just frowned upon over there i'm sorry.

Because i'm not even fully irish and better yet i'm not even Catholic, i'm for an AIL and an AI team, purely for football reasons, and not political.
not catholic!? stab the b@sterd!!! :rolleyes:

[osarusan]

Does the fact that FIFA recognises the right of NI born players to represent the ROI (and vice versa?) not suggest that they may be sympathetic to two associations (consensually) merging, perhaps recognising unusual if not unique circumstances?

I think Ealing Green is right when he suggests that FIFA will never force two football associations to merge when those two associations represent different countries. So it would be up to the two associations to come to a mutually beneficial agreement, and I just can't see the IFA having any interest in merging, as they've nothing whatsoever to gain from it. I can't see it (1 international team) happening before the political union of NI and ROI (if and whenever that happens).



The fact is, if the best clubs from both the LOI and the IPL played in a new 12 team league (preferbly in control of the FAI/IFA), there would certainly be a major broadcasting deal, sponsorship deals, marketing etc.
I honestly don't know how you can use words like "fact" or "certainly" when talking about an AIL. It's all speculation, and the only current cross-border competition doesn't help your argument.

[Not Brazil]

Does the fact that FIFA recognises the right of NI born players to represent the ROI (and vice versa?) not suggest that they may be sympathetic to two associations (consensually) merging, perhaps recognising unusual if not unique circumstances?


It's not vice versa.

Offered, and refused.

The FAI have an All Ireland team.

End of story.

[Acornvilla]

it's not vice versa.

Offered, and refused.

end of story.
yay!!!!!!!!:D

[osarusan]

It's not vice versa.

Offered, and refused.

Are you sure about that? I had it in my mind that it was offered, but the IFA turned it down as wanted to continue to argue against the idea of the FAI getting players from IFA jurisdiction.

So actually, "offered and refused" would be right!

Or am I mistaken?

[The Fly]

And whilst I don't agree with EG, his 'new improved more mellow' approach states a position far more eloquently in one post re.the IFA 'situation', than his 'countrymen' (Are they 'British' or 'Irish' today??) :rolleyes: have managed in 50 or more....


They're both.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Aye, so they keep saying (when it suits). One or the other is fair enough. But not :rolleyes: both....

No wonder people in general are confused.

[osarusan]

One or the other is fair enough. But not :rolleyes: both....

Why not both?

[Not Brazil]

Are you sure about that? I had it in my mind that it was offered, but the IFA turned it down as wanted to continue to argue against the idea of the FAI getting players from IFA jurisdiction.

So actually, "offered and refused" would be right!

Or am I mistaken?

FIFA offered the IFA the option of picking from throughout the 32 as a "compromise"...it was refused.

[Not Brazil]

Aye, so they keep saying (when it suits). One or the other is fair enough. But not :rolleyes: both....

No wonder people in general are confused.

What's confusing you?:confused:

[The Fly]

Are you sure about that? I had it in my mind that it was offered, but the IFA turned it down as wanted to continue to argue against the idea of the FAI getting players from IFA jurisdiction.


I would suggest that it was refused for reasons of self-preservation. If the IFA had accepted the offer, then the case for one international team would have become a no-brainer, both domestically and within FIFA.

Whether it was right or wrong, ethically speaking, to do so, the IFA made a stategic blunder in pursuing the Darron Gibson case with FIFA as it effectively advertised the fact that players born in NI can now play for the ROI. In the longer term however, it may prove to be a good thing for the future of football in NI - if it promotes a certain self-examination within the IFA and Northern Ireland footballing circles in general.

But.....for the IFA to have accepted FIFA's compromise offer, would have been absurd.

[ArdeeBhoy]

I think Ealing Green is right when he suggests that FIFA will never force two football associations to merge when those two associations represent different countries.

So it would be up to the two associations to come to a mutually beneficial agreement, and I just can't see the IFA having any interest in merging, as they've nothing whatsoever to gain from it. I can't see it (1 international team) happening before the political union of NI and ROI (if and whenever that happens).

Reluctantly accepting the EG position (though still feel FIFA may intervene re.the 4 British associations, as the world of sports 'politics' is extremely grubby), to be fair to Walker and their like (myself included) an AI team was less about agreement with the IFA (though that would be preferred) and more about such a 'notional' team having improved chances of qualifying....

And yes we know the majority of certain sports fans are against it. Fair enough. Though sounding less like a :rolleyes: broken record might help.

[MeathDrog]

It's not vice versa.

Offered, and refused.

The FAI have an All Ireland team.

End of story.
Problem? :o

[Not Brazil]

But.....for the IFA to have accepted FIFA's compromise offer, would have been absurd.

Absolutely, 100%, correct.

[Not Brazil]

Problem? :o

No..fine by me.

[ArdeeBhoy]

What's confusing you?:confused:

If you have mixed heritage, you can belong to more than one country.

However this doesn't apply to the vast majority of people in the North. Mainly for historical, religious and cultural reasons.
As stated earlier, 95% of the political representatives fall into either being British or Irish which is what is also indicative of their respective constituencies and how they see themselves.....

If you fall into the other 5%, you must be :rolleyes: quite a maverick?

And though am probably in a minority of one in this thread, would have been happy to see the IFA select a 32 county team. Though guess one or two of the usual suspects on here would have not been too happy!!

[Not Brazil]

And though am probably in a minority of one in this thread, would have been happy to see the IFA select a 32 county team. Though guess one or two of the usual suspects on here would have not been too happy!!

I'm just glad that the IFA Turkeys didn't vote for Christmas...somewhat surprised too.:D

[ArdeeBhoy]

They could have taken over the FAI with our blessing though.
And until Paris blew up, they'd given us precious little to be proud of, off the field.

Not the IFA seem any better. From what my spies tell me, they're even worse??

[Not Brazil]

If you have mixed heritage, you can belong to more than one country.

However this doesn't apply to the vast majority of people in the North. Mainly for historical, religious and cultural reasons.
As stated earlier, 95% of the political representatives fall into either being British or Irish which is what is also indicative of their respective constituencies and how they see themselves.....


Aye...and those 95% of political representatives have sorted it, right enough.:rolleyes:

They say you get what you vote for...any wonder many don't vote.

[Not Brazil]

They could have taken over the FAI with our blessing though.
And until Paris blew up, they'd given us precious little to be proud of, off the field.

Not the IFA seem any better. From what my spies tell me, they're even worse??

A bit of a shambols AB...but I've hope our new CEO has a bit of savvy.

[The Fly]

If you have mixed heritage, you can belong to more than one country.

However this doesn't apply to the vast majority of people in the North. Mainly for historical, religious and cultural reasons.
As stated earlier, 95% of the political representatives fall into either being British or Irish which is what is also indicative of their respective constituencies and how they see themselves.....

If you fall into the other 5%, you must be :rolleyes: quite a maverick?


I'll quote you the relevant section of the Good Friday Agreement:

The participants endorse the commitment made by the British and Irish Governments that, in a new British-Irish Agreement replacing the Anglo-Irish Agreement, they will:

vi) recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to
identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they
may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both
British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would
not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland."

[ArdeeBhoy]

Well this thread shows you can't change history quickly, but we're prepared to wait. ;)
All good things and that.

And if they can do it in Bosnia....though Srpska isn't playing ball.

[SkStu]

not catholic!? stab the b@sterd!!! :rolleyes:

ni ceapaim

[ArdeeBhoy]

I'll quote you the relevant section of the Good Friday Agreement:

The participants endorse the commitment made by the British and Irish Governments that, in a new British-Irish Agreement replacing the Anglo-Irish Agreement, they will:

vi) recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to
identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they
may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both
British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would
not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland."

Aye, but everyone knows that was the ultimate fudge. An agreement to disagree!
;)

But accept the text as written. Though have never met anyone of either side in the North who'd say they were both, 'in the flesh'. Though if they really want to be so confused, more fool them, unless their heritage is of course mixed.


Actually reckon more Nats would call themselves 'Northern Irish', away from the old hotspots these days. Though they wouldn't exactly :rolleyes: appreciate the flag or anthem.
But there are worse alternatives. Though to be fair not all the Prods. would accept those now either.

[Not Brazil]

Well this thread shows you can't change history quickly, but we're prepared to wait. ;)
All good things and that.


Respect for difference might be a good start for change, don't you think?

[Not Brazil]

Aye, but everyone knows that was the ultimate fudge. An agreement to disagree!
;)
But accept the text as written.

As ratified by the electorate in both jurisdictions on the island,:)

[ArdeeBhoy]

It's a start.

But if you want to call yourselves 'Irish', you'll have to be more similar! ;)

[ArdeeBhoy]

As ratified by the electorate in both jurisdictions on the island,:)

And I've told you why. Not that it's the worst reason. Would have voted in favour at the time, though not on reflection now.

[Not Brazil]

It's a start.
But if you want to call yourselves 'Irish', you'll have to be more similar! ;)

You'll not be (BNP esque) dictating to me how I express my Irishness...best you get over yourself on that.

[Not Brazil]

Would have voted in favour at the time, though not on reflection now.

Shall we have another vote?:)

[The Fly]

It's a start.

But if you want to call yourselves 'Irish', you'll have to be more similar! ;)

Similar to what, may I ask?

[The Fly]

Would have voted in favour at the time, though not on reflection now.

Apologies for going off-topic admin but, to the above - why? .

[irishfan86]

Haha, I know a couple of old guys here in Canada (family friends). Both raised in Ireland, one a Protestant Unionist from the North, one a Catholic from the Republic.

Best friends. Those who leave Ireland realize the divisions are ridiculously superficial once they go to a place like Canada or the U.S. where the cultural makeup is amazingly diverse.

Working together we can achieve so much more than we can apart- okay we may lose a bit of our old identity, an identity based on differences rather than common ground- but we will create a new identity as one Irish team, stronger, more competitive, and most importantly, united.