Norn Iron rubbish part 23452346526

[galwayjames]

Well that's the problem. Football isn't the motivation behind AIL calls. That's why I'm against it.

What's the motivation so then? Surely more promotion & more interest creates more money which in turn increases the standard of football.

[ifk101]

Surely more promotion

More promotion? Assumption or fact


& more interest

Assumption or fact. Consider Setanta Cup attendances and ask yourself are matches against Institute, Dungannon and Lisburn Distillery of more interest to a Galway public than matches against Sligo, Athlone and Limerick.


creates more money

Again assumption or fact. The only certainty is that it will increase expenses.


which in turn increases the standard of football.

Not for LOI sides.

[Riddickcule]

I would only be in favour of an AIL if all the clubs were involved and not this "super league" nonsense

[ArdeeBhoy]

GJ is right, playing v. a wider variety of teams can only help general standards, including our brethren in N.E.Ulster.

The benefits of an AIL can be seen in rugby, but it probably won't happen in soccer, more for reasons of political paranoia than any sporting ones.

[third policeman]

GJ is right, playing v. a wider variety of teams can only help general standards, including our brethren in N.E.Ulster.

The benefits of an AIL can be seen in rugby, but it probably won't happen in soccer, more for reasons of political paranoia than any sporting ones.

It's the Celtic league that has transformed playing standards in Rugby and enabled us to win Heineken Cups, Grand Slam and beat Springboks etc. It would require a similarly radical solution to make "proper" club football viable in Ireland. An AIl i nitself would achive very little. we simply have too many teams with inadequate support bases.

[ArdeeBhoy]

It's the Celtic league that has transformed playing standards in Rugby and enabled us to win Heineken Cups, Grand Slam and beat Springboks etc. It would require a similarly radical solution to make "proper" club football viable in Ireland. An AIl i nitself would achive very little. we simply have too many teams with inadequate support bases.

Aye, but it had to have a base somewhere. As in where above started from.


And Congrats to Ireland beating the World Champions and narrowly failing, via Messrs.McDowell & McIlroy to make us, Ireland, World Champions in the golf!

Better luck next time lads!
Erin Go Bragh!

[Predator]

Article in the Irish Times by Michael Walker

Ireland should have one league and one team (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/1205/1224260144396.html)

[ArdeeBhoy]

Good article, but the down side is it's going to :rolleyes: generate another 500 posts from our paranoid friends....who're opposed to any sort of, er, 'unification'.

They ridicule our Finals record, but it's been the best part of a quarter of a century since they last qualified and will be that maybe again before they come close again?

[The Fly]

They ridicule our Finals record, but it's been the best part of a quarter of a century since they last qualified and will be that maybe again before they come close again?

I'd say the above is more likely to generate the 500 posts. :rolleyes:

Anyway, 1 down....................

[Riddickcule]

Too right Ireland should have one league and one team, works in all other sports, so why not football i ask ?
It would only benefit everyone, we'd be more competitive, have access to more players, no more arguments if a lad from Derry wants to go south but then the nordies have a bloody tantrum about it coz technically he's Northern Irish...B*ll**ks.

Nordies complaining coz they'd have to travel down to Dublin every time, you kidding? It's motorway all the way it takes 2 hours, it'd be worth it going to Lansdowne instead of that bog Wind****e Park.

[seanfhear]

Article in the Irish Times by Michael Walker

Ireland should have one league and one team (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/1205/1224260144396.html)
Club football certainly needs the competitive edge that bringing the stronger teams on the island into regular league competition.

In reality I suppose there is the fear that the fans of some of the clubs might take this competitive edge too far. If this issue could be dealt with then bigger clubs competing against one another regularly on a league basis could only improve club football on the Island.

How often is it that stuff that makes sense does not happen on this Island.

I am not fussed about merging the International sides as there is really is a defacto All-Ireland team after the last FIFA regulations regarding players playing for ROI.

If an All-Ireland teams happens in the longer term then so be it.

If the clubs on both sides of the border do not get their acts together then the quality of players available to both sides may detierate as with the pick of the best young players from all over the world how much longer can either International side rely on English clubs to develope their players.

[Not Brazil]

Too right Ireland should have one league and one team, works in all other sports, so why not football i ask ?
It would only benefit everyone,
Nordies complaining coz they'd have to travel down to Dublin every time, you kidding? It's motorway all the way it takes 2 hours, it'd be worth it going to Lansdowne instead of that bog Wind****e Park.

How, exactly, would it "benefit" the vast majority of Northern Ireland players and supporters?:confused:

Northern Ireland supporters have absolutely no desire to watch our International football in Dublin.

I repeat, if Northern Ireland fans were minded on being "more competitive", in the context of a merger, they'd be supportive of an all UK team.

PS. In answer to your opening question, once upon a time there was one....

[ArdeeBhoy]

In answer to your opening question, once upon a time there was one....

Don't worry. We'd be happy to play all the games in Beal-feirste. ;)

Though you'd need to build a :rolleyes: a decent stadium.
Hear that site at the Maze is still free....

[Gather round]

Article in the Irish Times by Michael Walker

Thanks for the link. Unfortunately it crashes my computer- obviously some f*n**n ploy to prevent any angry replies from nasty orange bigots- but luckily Ardee Bhoy lent me his paper copy down the pub, thanks.


Gibson and Duffy come from Derry, but must choose between Belfast and Dublin for international duty. Who benefits?

Er, both players do- they have a choice. Both teams do, up to a point- the pool of potential players is increased. And most importantly, the fans do. They get to see a team that genuinely represents them, rather than an unwelcome hybrid which doesn't.


NI supporters will see [any decision by Duffy to declare for the South] as another small step towards the marginalisation of their squad and team

No they won't. They'll be disappointed and maybe annoyed (given that Duffy has already played regularly for our u-19 and u-21 teams), but neither those teams nor the senior squad will be marginalised. They'll still exist, they'll still be competing in the World and European championships, and for the time being they'll still be third-ranked (third-rate if you prefer), just like the South.


There should be if necessary government money put behind [an all-Ireland league]

The Republic of Ireland can't afford to pay its civil servants, faces massive unemployment for years to come and is struggling to mop up with large areas of its major cities under water after recent flooding. They're in no position to give Bohs, Shels and Cok- let alone Derry, Linfield and Glentoran- millions to spunk on an unsustainable vanity league.


Ireland has had one international team before and the World didn't fall apart

Actually, it DID fall apart. World War One saw millions die, then many powerful countries collapse and others rise in their stead, including the Irish Free State. They wanted their own football team, and got it. What's the problem?


If both Irish sides fail to qualify for Euro 2012, whose purpose will be served?

Er, the teams that knock them out, dear. That's how competitive sport works. Northern Ireland may not qualify- we certainly won't be favorities to do so- but we'll give it a go. I expect the South will do likewise.


or the opposite?

What's this guy on? If NI qualify, it'll obviously be brilliant. If the South do too, that's great, look forward to seeing you there.


We need to talk about Darron

Good if fringe player for club and country. Parents possibly can't spell?


Leeds too good for the third division

OK, from another of Walker's columns on Saturday but it does show his wider understanding of the game.


Ireland should have one league and one team

Go away and stop stirring.


They ridicule our Finals record, but it's been the best part of a quarter of a century since they last qualified and will be that maybe again before they come close again?

Hang on- you (RoI fans generally) criticise and even ridicule your recent qualifying record; you hardly need us to do it for you. The record just isn't very good. One finals of the last eight tournaments- Slovenia, a much smaller country has been to three in the same period.

NI came respectably close to Euro 2008- we were still able to qualify at half time in the last game of 12. Even this time we were only three points behind the eventual runner up going into the last game. With 24 Euro finalists in future (albeit a crazy idea in my opinion) our chances of qualifying, like everyone else's are obviously increased.


Too right Ireland should have one league and one team, works in all other sports, so why not football i ask?

Er, it doesn't work in all other sports, as I detailed up-thread. There isn't an all-Ireland cricket league. The island's two best players play for er, England. Many Irish sportsmen and women represent Northern Ireland and/ or Britain in international competitions such as the Olympics and Commonwealth games. Gaelic games and their all-Ireland teams commemorating paramilitarism and the rest only work to the extent that barely anyone in any other country plays them. I don't follow rugby union but if I did wouldn't be enthused by an Irish team which represents the South in all but name.


no more arguments if a lad from Derry wants to go south but then the nordies have a bloody tantrum about it coz technically he's Northern Irish...B*ll**ks

A-ha ha. You've some nerve accusing any other country's fans of throwing tantrums- for the last three weeks many of yours, along with players, your management, your FA, your minister for justice and your leading pop vocalist have been throwing the toys to the extent that they're a laughing stock for many both outside and within the country...


Nordies complaining coz they'd have to travel down to Dublin every time, you kidding? It's motorway all the way it takes 2 hours, it'd be worth it going to Lansdowne instead of that bog Wind****e Park

We're complaining because you- along with all the other stirrers, halfwits, cartoon provos and lazy journalists on this thread are trying to abolish our football team. It's got nothing to do with motorway maintenance between Dublin and Belfast.

[Stuttgart88]

So you're in favour then?

wrt an All-Ireland league, Walker says it'd improve things but doesn't say how. Personally I'm in favour but I'd like to see reasoned argument supporting his assertion.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Thanks for the link. Unfortunately it crashes my computer- obviously some f*n**n ploy to prevent any angry replies from nasty orange bigots

We're complaining because you- along with all the other stirrers, halfwits, cartoon provos and lazy journalists on this thread are trying to abolish our football team.

Paranoia is alive and, er, 'well'. Just because one of your 'own' suggests an AI soccer team or League, you think it automatically means 're-unification' ?? Some great 'logic' there.

And how can us in Ireland be 'southern' when it contains the most northerly county and geographical point in Donegal & Malin Head?? Maybe re-name the North as North-East Ulster ??


It's been said that the AI teams in cricket, golf, hockey and rugby union/league are 'unsuccessful'. Hmm, to the extent that they've all recently made a mark in their own World Championships or equivalent.
And that's despite the likes of 'Ingle-land', in certain instances, trying to poach anyone who's half-decent....

[geysir]

NI came respectably close to Euro 2008- we were still able to qualify at half time in the last game of 12
Respectable performances and finishing position in that group, yes.
Qualify at half time in the last game? in theory yes.
Probably a 1-500 chance to qualify at half time in that last game.
You were still able to qualify on the hour mark, probably a 1-1m chance.

[Gather round]

Respectable performances and finishing position in that group, yes.
Qualify at half time in the last game? in theory yes.
Probably a 1-500 chance to qualify at half time in that last game.
You were still able to qualify on the hour mark, probably a 1-1m chance.

I think we're broadly agreed- NI were respectable overall and had a nominal chance almost to the bitter end.

Going into the last game, I recall the bookies suggesting a 10% chance we'd beat Spain (beat them for a second time in the group, so the likelihood was hardly infinitesimal). Apply a similar figure of 10% to the Sweden- Latvia game, and you've got 1% for a combination of both the results we needed. A significantly higher likelihood than that of FIFA replaying any qualifiers or increasing the number of teams in South Africa, I reckon.


It's been said that the AI teams in cricket, golf, hockey and rugby union/league are 'unsuccessful'. Hmm, to the extent that they've all recently made a mark in their own World Championships or equivalent

It hasn't as far as I've heard (as you suggest, Irish rugby union, cricket and golf have rarely if ever been more successful), but so what? It doesn't mean Robbie Keane and Aaron Hughes would lift Euro 2012 by playing together. And even if it did, NI fans are not interested. However much you want to celebrate two guys from Portrush and Holywood coming second in a golf tournament, or three blokes from the Republic making the 15 man squad for the cricket World cup.

[ArdeeBhoy]

It hasn't as far as I've heard (as you suggest, Irish rugby union, cricket and golf have rarely if ever been more successful), but so what?
It doesn't mean Robbie Keane and Aaron Hughes would lift Euro 2012 by playing together. And even if it did, NI fans are not interested.

Not saying they would, but a bigger pool of players would improve our chances of at least qualifying. Even with 24 teams, yours must be virtually :rolleyes: non-existent?
And don't understand your last sentence;who else would they support?
'Ingle-land', Scotland ?? ;)


However much you want to celebrate two guys from Portrush and Holywood coming second in a golf tournament, or three blokes from the Republic making the 15 man squad for the cricket World cup.

Well you keep telling us everyone from the N-E Ulster is 'Irish, so why wouldn't we not want to see a UI team do well....

[geysir]

I think we're broadly agreed- NI were respectable overall and had a nominal chance almost to the bitter end.

Going into the last game, I recall the bookies suggesting a 10% chance we'd beat Spain (beat them for a second time in the group, so the likelihood was hardly infinitesimal). Apply a similar figure of 10% to the Sweden- Latvia game, and you've got 1% for a combination of both the results we needed. A significantly higher likelihood than that of FIFA replaying any qualifiers or increasing the number of teams in South Africa, I reckon.


By half time that 1-100 chance, one could argue that it became a 1-500 chance. As compared to half time in Paris where we were clear favourites with the bookies to win the game. But I wasn't making that comparison:)

[Not Brazil]

Don't worry. We'd be happy to play all the games in Beal-feirste. ;)

Though you'd need to build a :rolleyes: a decent stadium.
Hear that site at the Maze is still free....

I'm not worried in the slightest.

You play your games wherever you like.

We'll be playing ours at a re-developed Windsor Park.

The Maze site may be still free, but it will not be hosting Interntional football matches.

[Not Brazil]

Maybe re-name the North as North-East Ulster ??


No need - it'll continue to be called Northern Ireland.

[micls]

Not saying they would, but a bigger pool of players would improve our chances of at least qualifying. Even with 24 teams, yours must be virtually :rolleyes: non-existent?
And don't understand your last sentence;who else would they support?
'Ingle-land', Scotland ?? ;)
Well you keep telling us everyone from the N-E Ulster is 'Irish, so why wouldn't we not want to see a UI team do well....

You still haven't answered his point.

If all they wanted was an improved chance of qualifying then their best bet would be wanting an all UK team, not an AI one. So again what's in it for them?

Im from Munster, but Id have no interest in an All Munster football team, Im sure neither would Limerick or Waterford. Why would being Irish mean they'd want an AI team.

We know you'd prefer an AI team, and apparently improving the chances of winning is the only thing that matters, but to some THEIR team is precious and they aren't going to give it up to make you, or anyone down here, happy.

There's absolutely nothing in it for them and yet you continue to imply that it's wrong of them not to want it.

Very strange logic.

[ArdeeBhoy]

But they keep telling us they're 'Irish'.
If anyone's logic is :rolleyes: strange, it's being in 'denial' about that.
Surely an 'increased chance of qualifying or Finals participation' is worth the leap of such 'logic'.
As pointed above, which you and others continually ignore, AI teams are now making an impact on the world stage.

And has anyone asked their fans, who'd they prefer if it comes to it? Us or a Brit.XI which would be a 'de facto' England team....

[Not Brazil]

And has anyone asked their fans, who'd they prefer if it comes to it? Us or a Brit.XI which would be a 'de facto' England team....

Again, you miss micls's point.

Northern Ireland fans are not interested in merging with EITHER the Republic Of Ireland or the rest of the UK.

Your question simply does not arise, and nor will it be arising for the foreseeable future.

[ArdeeBhoy]

We know :rolleyes: you're not, but no reason why we can't hypothesize though.
And whilst you claim it's going to last for 'hundreds of years' I reckon those :rolleyes: 'nice' people at FIFA might well ultimately see it differently.
;)

[Not Brazil]

We know :rolleyes: you're not, but no reason why we can't hypothesize though.


What's the point in Northern Ireland fans hypothesizing about something that they don't want?:confused:

We've much more important things to hypothesize about.

[Predator]

Thanks for the link. Unfortunately it crashes my computer- obviously some f*n**n ploy to prevent any angry replies from nasty orange bigots- but luckily Ardee Bhoy lent me his paper copy down the pub, thanks.
Luckily for you!


What's the point in Northern Ireland fans hypothesizing about something that they don't want?:confused:

We've much more important things to hypothesize about.
There are bound to be Northern Ireland fans who would consider an all-Ireland team and I'm fairly sure that there is a sizeable section of Northern Ireland society that would also like to see an all-Ireland team - these people should surely hypothesize. Of course, as has been pointed out previously, some of Northern Ireland's greatest players have been advocates of the idea too and I reckon there's a chance some of their current players may also be advocates.

[Not Brazil]

There are bound to be Northern Ireland fans who would consider an all-Ireland team and I'm fairly sure that there is a sizeable section of Northern Ireland society that would also like to see an all-Ireland team - these people should surely hypothesize. Of course, as has been pointed out previously, some of Northern Ireland's greatest players have been advocates of the idea too and I reckon there's a chance some of their current players may also be advocates.

Very few fans Predator - amongst our block bookers, I would reckon that figure would be <5%. Either way, nowhere near a majority, or even a meaningful minority.

Northern Irish society can hypothesize all they like - it'll not make a button of difference.

Indeed, a few of our "greatest players" have been advocates of the idea - I think most of our journeymen (ie. the vast majority) would not have been so keen - they would have lost out on an International career.

I would be struggling to think of any advocates in the current squad - I say that on the basis that only three or four of our players would be in a combined squad, and, of those, I don't think any would be advocates.

Furthermore, there is an All Ireland team - anyone in Northern Ireland who wishes to play for it, is welcome to do so.

[ArdeeBhoy]

What's the point in Northern Ireland fans hypothesizing about something that they don't want?:confused:

We've much more important things to hypothesize about.

You seem very sure of this. Even if 5% thought it was worthwhile, it's worth discussing.
Not sure if a majority of Irish people on here would be, but a majority of active Ireland fans would be overall.

[Riddickcule]

Why do we always need to go political about it?
For football's sake on this island it makes sense to have an AIL and an AI National team.Better pool of talent, greater access to Capital funding, yeah sure the economies in the ****s now but it'll recover in time, in short time.
Look at rugby, we're one of the worlds best teams....Ireland! up there with the best.
Irelands call is always majestically roared out in Croker, and soon to be Lansdowne.

[Not Brazil]

You seem very sure of this. Even if 5% thought it was worthwhile, it's worth discussing.


I would be pretty sure of it...I said < 5%.

You keep discussing it all you like...there is nothing in it at all for the IFA or the overwhelming majority of supporters of the Northern Ireland International team.

You'd be better served just getting on with supporting your All Ireland team, instead of trying to engage in hypothetical nonsense.

I dare say if a lot of Northern Ireland fans were to look at your comments on the issue here, it wouldn't serve to persuade them.:D

[Not Brazil]

Why do we always need to go political about it?
For football's sake on this island it makes sense to have an AIL and an AI National team.

I'm not being "political" about it.

I simply don't wish to see a team I've supported passionately for a lifetime disappear - that would be the view of the overwhelming majority of Northern Ireland supporters.

For the umptenth time, you have an All Ireland National team.

Why can't you just accept the choice of those who support a different Irish team to have nothing to do with it?:confused:

[Not Brazil]

Irelands call is always majestically roared out in Croker, and soon to be Lansdowne.

For rugby?

So what?:confused:

[Riddickcule]

For rugby?

So what?:confused:
Imagine that in football, it'd be class.Look Not Brazil i respect your views i really do but in footballs sake i mean do you not agree that on the international front we could progress far further than both sides currently do now?

[ArdeeBhoy]

I would be pretty sure of it...I said < 5%.

You keep discussing it all you like....
You'd be better served just getting on with supporting your All Ireland team, instead of trying to engage in hypothetical nonsense.

I dare say if a lot of Northern Ireland fans were to look at your comments on the issue here, it wouldn't serve to persuade them.

If you say so. But it's not nonsense and while there's a potential to do so, we'll be carrying on discussing. ;)
If you don't like it, why even come on here if it's so painful to contemplate?

[Predator]

Very few fans Predator - amongst our block bookers, I would reckon that figure would be <5%. Either way, nowhere near a majority, or even a meaningful minority.

Northern Irish society can hypothesize all they like - it'll not make a button of difference.
Whatever about the actual number of all-Ireland team advocates in the current set of NI fans, surely Northern Irish society should have a big say? After all, the IFA and the NI team purport to represent Northern Ireland (and by extension, obviously its people... and strangely, according to the Anthem, England :p) on the international stage.


Indeed, a few of our "greatest players" have been advocates of the idea - I think most of our journeymen (ie. the vast majority) would not have been so keen - they would have lost out on an International career.

I would be struggling to think of any advocates in the current squad - I say that on the basis that only three or four of our players would be in a combined squad, and, of those, I don't think any would be advocates.Granted, there are players that would likely miss out on an international career, but leaving aside the implications on current and past squads, I'd say some players might promote such an idea for the future generations of footballers on the island, since there are a fair few possible positives in it.


Furthermore, there is an All Ireland team - anyone in Northern Ireland who wishes to play for it, is welcome to do so.Somehow I don't think NI fans would welcome people from NI deciding to play for the 'All Ireland team'... :eek:

Technically of course, the FAI can choose players from anywhere on the island, but while there will be players from the North who decide to play for the Republic, there will also be players who don't wish to play for the Republic (due perhaps to their backgrounds). This situation doesn't exactly help NI's chances of retaining the best players within their boundaries, as you well know. You're obviously aware of the possible positive implications of an All-Ireland team and it would not simply mean the end of a team for you (and other people from Northern Ireland) to support. Could you truly not bring yourself to roar on a team containing a few lads from Belfast, Derry and Newry, as well as lads from Dublin, Donegal, Cork and Galway? Is it that abhorrent?

I welcome your and GR's input. It's important that both sets of fans discuss such things. I've read some threads on OWC though, that are disheartening, in that they simply ridicule the idea and deny it any space to develop, but for obvious reasons I understand.

[ramondo]

[...]

We're complaining because you- along with all the other stirrers, halfwits, cartoon provos and lazy journalists on this thread are trying to abolish our football team. It's got nothing to do with motorway maintenance between Dublin and Belfast.

This is the problem. Sure it's a generalisation, but it seems the majority of NI supporters see a Whole of Ireland team as the loss of something, whereas the the majority of ROI supporters would see it as the gaining of a (potentially) better team that would have a better chance of advancement in European Championship and World Cup qualifiers, even if it meant the team known as "The Republic of Ireland" no longer existed. We could live with that. I think.

Would it be so bad if the team was called, say, The Republic and Northern Ireland, or some variation/combination? It seems to work for Bosnia and Herzegovina.

I would think I speak for the majority of ROI supporters in saying that "getting one over" on NI supporters, or somehow trying to "abolish" their team is not the motivation here.

[Not Brazil]

Imagine that in football, it'd be class.Look Not Brazil i respect your views i really do but in footballs sake i mean do you not agree that on the international front we could progress far further than both sides currently do now?

We could probably "progess" more as part of an All UK team, but I'm equally unsupportive of such a move.

I'm a Northern Ireland supporter - for better, or worse.

[Not Brazil]

If you say so. But it's not nonsense and while there's a potential to do so, we'll be carrying on discussing. ;)
If you don't like it, why even come on here if it's so painful to contemplate?

Please, carry on.

Discuss all you like.

As the (hypothetical) question directly involves the future of theteam I support, I think it reasonable that I contribute my views on the matter.

It's not a case of being "painful", it's just that it's not happening.

[Not Brazil]

Whatever about the actual number of all-Ireland team advocates in the current set of NI fans, surely Northern Irish society should have a big say? After all, the IFA and the NI team purport to represent Northern Ireland (and by extension, obviously its people... and strangely, according to the Anthem, England :p) on the international stage.


Technically of course, the FAI can choose players from anywhere on the island, but while there will be players from the North who decide to play for the Republic, there will also be players who don't wish to play for the Republic (due perhaps to their backgrounds). This situation doesn't exactly help NI's chances of retaining the best players within their boundaries, as you well know. You're obviously aware of the possible positive implications of an All-Ireland team and it would not simply mean the end of a team for you (and other people from Northern Ireland) to support. Could you truly not bring yourself to roar on a team containing a few lads from Belfast, Derry and Newry, as well as lads from Dublin, Donegal, Cork and Galway? Is it that abhorrent?


Firstly, the team represents the Irish Football Association (A Company, and member of FIFA). It's the IFA, it's International team supporters, and FIFA who have the say.

Sainsbury's may wish they could be merged with Tescos - many consumers might like that too. However, the Management of Sainsburys and Tescos are the decision makers on the issue.

Secondly, I would much rather support a team consisting of players from (or eligible to play for) Northern Ireland. I have little or no affinity with players from Dublin, Cork, Galway, or Donegal.

It, therefore, is not something I could passionately "roar on".

Again, I ask why can't you respect the choice of those who wish to play for/support Northern Ireland?

[Not Brazil]

Would it be so bad if the team was called, say, The Republic and Northern Ireland, or some variation/combination? It seems to work for Bosnia and Herzegovina.


Why not just keep two teams, the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland - teams that we're equally as proud of and passionate about?:confused:

[Gather round]

There are bound to be Northern Ireland fans who would consider an all-Ireland team and I'm fairly sure that there is a sizeable section of Northern Ireland society that would also like to see an all-Ireland team - these people should surely hypothesize. Of course, as has been pointed out previously, some of Northern Ireland's greatest players have been advocates of the idea too and I reckon there's a chance some of their current players may also be advocates

But as keeps being mentioned and you seem unwilling/ unable to grasp, there's already an effective united Ireland side, one that can and does choose players from all across the 32 counties, not to mention Glasgow, Lancashire, Nottinghamshire and Birmingham. So in practice no-one needs to hypothesise. It'd be like hypothesising about it raining in Aughnacloy next week. Given that, there's no reason to get rid of the existing NI side. You'll struggle to find a single current player in favor of that.


Why do we always need to go political about it?

International football is necessarily political; you can't get much more politically provocative than calling to abolish the NI international side.

For football's sake on this island it makes sense to have an AIL and an AI National team.Better pool of talent, greater access to Capital funding, yeah sure the economies in the ****s now but it'll recover in time, in short time

If you want a bigger pool of talent, pick even more Brits in your team and stop whining? Or daydream, like you're doing about economic recovery short-term.


Look at rugby, we're one of the worlds best teams....Ireland! up there with the best. Irelands call is always majestically roared out in Croker, and soon to be Lansdowne

If you love rugby union so much, watch it instead.


in footballs sake i mean do you not agree that on the international front we could progress far further than both sides currently do now?

No, I think we'd still be mediocre in the mid- to long-term. Look at the records. NI had an excellent squad in the early and mid 80s, you ditto for a longer period from the mid 80s to mid 90s. Both teams have been decidely third rate for much of the time since, and arguably for decades beforehand. A notional team with six million population and one or two part-time leagues to call on isn't necessarily going to see off Norway, Scotland or Switzerland in European qualifiers, let alone the really big teams.


Whatever about the actual number of all-Ireland team advocates in the current set of NI fans, surely Northern Irish society should have a big say?

Why not test it yourself? Stand for Derry City Council/ Stormont/ Westminster/ Dail Eireann via Donegal NE/ the European Parliament on a single issue 'let's abolish the NI team' ticket. You'll romp home, I don't think.

I'd say some players might promote such an idea for the future generations of footballers on the island, since there are a fair few possible positives in it

There are no postivies in it for us (NI fans), and no need for you (RoI fans, including players within that group). Ergo there's no realistic likelihood of it happening.


Could you truly not bring yourself to roar on a team containing a few lads from Belfast, Derry and Newry, as well as lads from Dublin, Donegal, Cork and Galway? Is it that abhorrent

Come on Pred, you can do better than that. It's about YOU wanting to effectively abolish our team, not our unwillingness to embrace players from the South. Go back up-thread and you'll see that as a cricket fan I support an Ireland side recently including three players from Dublin, as well as others originally from Australia, South Africa, New Zealand and Pakistan ;)


I've read some threads on OWC though, that are disheartening, in that they simply ridicule the idea and deny it any space to develop, but for obvious reasons I understand

I'm ridiculing it here, it's ridiculous, irritating and mildly offensive.


even if it meant the team known as "The Republic of Ireland" no longer existed. We could live with that. I think

The team would be called Ireland, just as you call yours now. It would play almost all games in the South, with tricolors waving and the Soldiers' Song played every time your president attended. Many of your fans, media etc. would regard it, quite logically as a takeover of our team losing your team nothing. For the 42nd time on this thread alone, we're not interested!


I would think I speak for the majority of ROI supporters in saying that "getting one over" on NI supporters, or somehow trying to "abolish" their team is not the motivation here

I've no idea what proportion of RoI supporters agree with you, but whatever it is you are simply wrong. There's no other plausible explanation for getting rid of NI's team when a perfectly adequate all-Ireland-plus-numerous-diaspora-from-Britain side already exists.

[Wangball]

Why not just keep two teams, the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland - teams that we're equally as proud of and passionate about?:confused:

Here here!

[boovidge]

But as keeps being mentioned and you seem unwilling/ unable to grasp, there's already an effective united Ireland side, one that can and does choose players from all across the 32 counties, not to mention Glasgow, Lancashire, Nottinghamshire and Birmingham.

Why do you keep "digging" at the fact that the ROI picks 2nd and 3rd generation Irish? It has nothing to do with the discussion re: merging the two associations.

[Gather round]

Why do you keep "digging" at the fact that the ROI picks 2nd and 3rd generation Irish? It has nothing to do with the discussion re: merging the two associations

I'm digging to answer your (plural) digging, and because it IS relevant to the point. If you're claiming that the main motivation is to have a united Ireland team with access to a 32-county plus diaspora playing pool (as opposed to just stirring to irritate NI fans), then I'm merely reminding you that your current team has three Englishmen, a Scot and a guy from Derry in it. You don't need to merge any associations to maintain- or even increase- that proportion.


They do too, Maik Taylor etc

Actually Taylor doesn't claim to be third generation (or any generation at all) Northern Irish. He and the IFA exploited the rules as they were then.

But there's a huge difference. I'm not arguing to abolish the RoI team just so we can bring in Joe Murphy or Kieren Westwood when Taylor and Given retire.


the fact the IFA are a 'home nation' with inordinate power for their size means the blazers in Belfast will never give up their perks, and why would they

The 'inordinate power' is just your opinion. The IFA has a vote in FIFA and UEFA, just like Liechtenstein or Andorra. And like the English, Scots and Welsh we have an ex-officio place on the international board (basically a committee that reviews the laws of the game and the like). There's no inherent reason for this perk continuing and I'd have no problem if it disappeared tomorrow. But you're mising- perhaps deliberately- the point; the IFA and NI side will continue to exist because that's what 100% of its fans want. It has little to do with the blazers- although if it did, the argument would presumably apply equally to your own blazers in the FAI?

[osarusan]

I'm not really interested in the political side of an AIL (which I think is the vast majoriy of the desire for it), but I'm not convinced it would do much to imporve the standard of football (or more to the point, there are lots of other things far more feasible that would have a better impact on the standard of LOI football).

The NI fans on here (mostly) don't want to merge with the FAI, or indeed, anybody. I can't see any real reson to make them.

[Gather round]

I'm not really interested in the political side of an AIL (which I think is the vast majoriy of the desire for it), but I'm not convinced it would do much to imporve the standard of football (or more to the point, there are lots of other things far more feasible that would have a better impact on the standard of LOI football)

I'm in favor of the Setanta cup or similar (it would be a shame if it petered out before Crusaders' recent mini-revival). If it attracted sustained interest (large crowds, new sponsors and the rest) over say five years, then we could consider expanding it into a league structure. Until then, as you say, let's concentrate on improving the existing leagues.

[Predator]

Firstly, the team represents the Irish Football Association (A Company, and member of FIFA). It's the IFA, it's International team supporters, and FIFA who have the say.

Sainsbury's may wish they could be merged with Tescos - many consumers might like that too. However, the Management of Sainsburys and Tescos are the decision makers on the issue.Fair point.


Secondly, I would much rather support a team consisting of players from (or eligible to play for) Northern Ireland. I have little or no affinity with players from Dublin, Cork, Galway, or Donegal.

It, therefore, is not something I could passionately "roar on". Each to their own.


Again, I ask why can't you respect the choice of those who wish to play for/support Northern Ireland?I do respect the choice of those people, but that does not preclude me from discussing a hypothetical situation, however ridiculous it might seem to some.


But as keeps being mentioned and you seem unwilling/ unable to grasp, there's already an effective united Ireland side, one that can and does choose players from all across the 32 counties, not to mention Glasgow, Lancashire, Nottinghamshire and Birmingham. So in practice no-one needs to hypothesise. It'd be like hypothesising about it raining in Aughnacloy next week. Given that, there's no reason to get rid of the existing NI side. You'll struggle to find a single current player in favor of that.
As I've said, I acknowledge that there is an effective united Ireland team, but it's not the same as having one international football entity, as you obviously know.


Why not test it yourself? Stand for Derry City Council/ Stormont/ Westminster/ Dail Eireann via Donegal NE/ the European Parliament on a single issue 'let's abolish the NI team' ticket. You'll romp home, I don't think.
Ha, it would probably be a first! Seriously though, I still think it's an issue which should see the consultation of the population of Northern Ireland (as well as the Republic) as they are all prospective fans.


There are no postivies in it for us (NI fans), and no need for you (RoI fans, including players within that group). Ergo there's no realistic likelihood of it happening.There are no positives in it for NI fans who are not in favour of a united Ireland team, but for those NI fans (including prospective NI fans) who are in favour, there are positives.




Come on Pred, you can do better than that. It's about YOU wanting to effectively abolish our team, not our unwillingness to embrace players from the South. Go back up-thread and you'll see that as a cricket fan I support an Ireland side recently including three players from Dublin, as well as others originally from Australia, South Africa, New Zealand and Pakistan ;)
True, there would be an effective abolition of two teams in favour of one team in this proposition, but that is obviously not solely the issue for some fans. Not Brazil says he would find it difficult to cheer on a united Ireland team as passionately, since he feels little to no affinity to the Republic of Ireland. You don't have that problem though ;)



I'm ridiculing it here, it's ridiculous, irritating and mildly offensive.Lots of things have been labelled ridiculous in the past, they weren't all necessarily so!


The team would be called Ireland, just as you call yours now. It would play almost all games in the South, with tricolors waving and the Soldiers' Song played every time your president attended. Many of your fans, media etc. would regard it, quite logically as a takeover of our team losing your team nothing. For the 42nd time on this thread alone, we're not interested!42 times huh?! Jaysus. I think it's clear that such a scenario could be avoided if there was an equal amount of input from the IFA and NI fans, but of course, it could be avoided altogether if it wasn't given any credence whatsoever, which is what you and NB have been doing. Then again, maybe it will happen eventually and the lack of input from NI fans would encourage the 'takeover' attitude.

[boovidge]

I'm digging to answer your (plural) digging, and because it IS relevant to the point. If you're claiming that the main motivation is to have a united Ireland team with access to a 32-county plus diaspora playing pool (as opposed to just stirring to irritate NI fans), then I'm merely reminding you that your current team has three Englishmen, a Scot and a guy from Derry in it. You don't need to merge any associations to maintain- or even increase- that proportion.


I still don't see why English and Scottish born players are relevent to the discussion. Any possible merger of the FAI and IFA would not have any bearing on eligibility rules regarding these players whatsoever.

I'm not in favour of an all Ireland team btw.