Norn Iron rubbish part 23452346526

[Predator]

A merger would never be supported by all interest groups. We need to evalute if the merger idea is worth the hassle and to what real benefit. IMO it's not worth the hassle and it offers no real or tangible benefits.

There clearly is quite an anti-merger stance amongst the NI support. We should respect that and realise this is a non-runner.
We're not going to make it happen on here, but it would surely be no harm to debate and discuss the matter? I respect the NI fans' stance against the idea, but I think it's something which should be discussed nonetheless. Just because a portion of the whole island's population is against the idea, doesn't mean we should stop discussing it, surely?

[Not Brazil]

NB, I wonder has the question ever been put to Jonny Evans on the topic of an all-Ireland team?
I didn't say that.

I don't deny his or anyone else's desire to play for NI, but I wonder if they'd approve of an all Ireland football entity if it were to transpire? I'd imagine a lot of the current players would approve of the idea.

I can assure you that Jonny Evans is more than happy representing Northern Ireland - that was evident in his comments televised on BBC NI last night.

Let me get this right - you think that the majority of our players (the majority of whom wouldn't get near the fantasy island team, (as agreed by posters on here), would approve of their International prospects going down the toilet?:eek::eek::eek:

Those players from Northern Ireland who wish to "strengthen" the Republic of Ireland team, are free to do so, going forward. Let it be.

[ifk101]

We're not going to make it happen on here, but it would surely be no harm to debate and discuss the matter? I respect the NI fans' stance against the idea, but I think it's something which should be discussed nonetheless. Just because a portion of the whole island's population is against the idea, doesn't mean we should stop discussing it, surely?

After 22 pages and countless other similar threads? Yes maybe it's time to put this to bed. An united Ireland team would effectively be the current Republic team. The IFA would be forced to move to Abbottstown and games would be played in Dublin. Any possible merger doesn't represent a joining of forces so to speak - it would represent our current team and a token player or two from NI. This isn't acceptable to the IFA or the NI support so along comes the hassle that we just don't need because we'd have different interest groups emerging that aren't all pulling in the same direction. Success at international level with the resources we have demands that everyone is 100% behind the team. This wouldn't be the case with an united team.

[Predator]

I can assure you that Jonny Evans is more than happy representing Northern Ireland - that was evident in his comments televised on BBC NI last night.
I don't dispute that, just as most RoI players are more than happy representing RoI, but I wonder what his opinion on a singular Ireland team is.


Let me get this right - you think that the majority of our players (the majority of whom wouldn't get near the fantasy island team, (as agreed by posters on here), would approve of their International prospects going down the toilet?:eek::eek::eek:

Those players from Northern Ireland who wish to "strengthen" the Republic of Ireland team, are free to do so, going forward. Let it be.I never said a majority, but I'd imagine many players at all levels would be in favour of it. The likes of George Best, Jennings, M.O'Neill and many others have been in favour of it in the past; they must be mad to have such a blatant disregard the wishes of the fans like that...


After 22 pages and countless other similar threads? Yes maybe it's time to put this to bed.
I haven't been a member since 2003, so I haven't seen all these threads. I'm sure there are others like me. You have to wonder why it keeps coming up as a topic of discussion.


An united Ireland team would effectively be the current Republic team. The IFA would be forced to move to Abbottstown and games would be played in Dublin. Any possible merger doesn't represent a joining of forces so to speak - it would represent our current team and a token player or two from NI. This isn't acceptable to the IFA or the NI support so along comes the hassle that we just don't need because we'd have different interest groups emerging that aren't all pulling in the same direction. Success at international level with the resources we have demands that everyone is 100% behind the team. This wouldn't be the case with an united team.Quite possibly that could be the case and I accept that point, but the case certainly won't be helped by a complete lack of involvement from NI fans and officials whose only contribution to the discussion of the possibility is basically, 'we don't want to', which is fair enough, but surely they can participate in constructive discussion.

[Not Brazil]

I don't dispute that, just as most RoI players are more than happy representing RoI, but I wonder what his opinion on a singular Ireland team is.

I never said a majority, but I'd imagine many players at all levels would be in favour of it. The likes of George Best, Jennings, M.O'Neill and many others have been in favour of it in the past; they must be mad to have such a blatant disregard the wishes of the fans like that...

Shall we ask those who wouldn't have a hope in hell of reaching the fantasy Island XI...ie. most of our players?

The players you mention would all have made a fantasy island XI - the vast majority of our players over the years wouldn't.

Easy to favour something, if it wasn't going to affect your international career.:rolleyes:

I am very proud that George Best was buried with his coffin adorned by the flag of the Irish Football Association.



Quite possibly that could be the case and I accept that point, but the case certainly won't be helped by a complete lack of involvement from NI fans and officials whose only contribution to the discussion of the possibility is basically, 'we don't want to', which is fair enough, but surely they can participate in constructive discussion.

You have failed to convince Northern Ireland fans of the merits of a, singular, Fantasy Island team.

The FAI has failed to convince the IFA of the merits of a Fantasy Island team.

It's as simple as that really.

What about that merger between Bohs and Rovers I mentioned earlier?

You know it makes sense.;)

[ifk101]

Quite possibly that could be the case and I accept that point, but the case certainly won't be helped by a complete lack of involvement from NI fans and officials whose only contribution to the discussion of the possibility is basically, 'we don't want to', which is fair enough, but surely they can participate in constructive discussion.

Why would they? They have nothing to gain from merging. It would be the greatest own goal ever.

Anyways and tbh, I've quite enjoyed reading about NI teams losing again and again and again. I'd miss that if there was a merger. :D

[Gather round]

But the point I am making is there are very few NI internationals now and in the past 20 odd years that are clearly better than our options to the extent that you can say an unified team, on a purely sporting level, would be better and would have performed better than what we have done

Fair enough, I agree your broad point.


EG I admire your missionary zeal on behalf of the continuing existence of the NI team

I'm sure EG will be flattered next time he checks the thread. Meanwhile, all the other NI supporters on here agree with him.


but this debate always seems to lapse into thinly disguised political sniping

Er, that was clearly the point of the thread starter (and of all the other basically identical threads on the issue). Cliched, often incoherent and occasionally offensive sneers against the NI team and its fans will be answered.


You consistently claim the mandate of speaking on behalf of NI supporters

No-one's claiming any (electoral) mandate; all the NI fans are saying is that, by definition, 100% of us want there to be a NI team. It is- or should be- very easy to grasp.


There is surely one way that this debate could be resolved once and for all

Of course. You (plural) could concentrate on supporting your team and stop trying to abolish ours.


I feel your argument might be that only real NI suppoters...should have a vote

Bizarre analogy. NI supporters have voted through the turnstiles for a century since the FAI broke away. We aren't denying any one else to the chance to support a different team, if they choose. As for any relation to the real World, any imminent follow-up to the Good Friday Agreement might concentrate on slightly more important issues: you know, economic collapse, chronic unemployment, Police accountability, environmental improvements as our city centres lie under water. You know, bread and butter issues like that.

For that reason it's totally legitimate for everybody in both jurisdictions to have a say on this

You and your grandad Charlie have had a say in it since the 1920s, with your own football team to support. In recent years you've achieved a situation where your pool of available players extends throughout Ireland, and well beyond. Your gripes aren't so much illegitimate as irrelevant.


I think that's a bit of a cop-out GR. Back in the thread I think you said Belfast (I think I thanked that post actually)? If so, why?

It was a labored gag (which went over other readers' heads initially). I named Belfast, Dublin and Derry in that order as the acknowledged best venues for an all-Ireland side. Replace with Stormont, Clontarf and Eglinton and you see three er, cricket grounds ;)


The RoI team would still cease to exist too

No it wouldn't.


I don't deny his or anyone else's desire to play for NI, but I wonder if they'd approve of an all Ireland football entity if it were to transpire? I'd imagine a lot of the current players would approve of the idea
It's already transpired. Many/ most of them have had the chance to show their approval, by declaring availibility to play for it instead of NI.


You have to wonder why it keeps coming up as a topic of discussion

There's a small but persistent minority of stirrers about.


Anyways and tbh, I've quite enjoyed reading about NI teams losing again and again and again. I'd miss that if there was a merger

Touche. Talking of neighborly separation, will you be supporting Denmark in the World Cup?

[Not Brazil]

Why would they? They have nothing to gain from merging. It would be the greatest own goal ever.

Anyways and tbh, I've quite enjoyed reading about NI teams losing again and again and again. I'd miss that if there was a merger. :D

As world minnows, it's exactly that that makes the victories even sweeter - especially against the giants.:cool:;)

[ifk101]

Touche. Talking of neighborly separation, will you be supporting Denmark in the World Cup?

I wouldn't say support but I'll be following their matches.


As world minnows, it's exactly that that makes the victories even sweeter - especially against the giants.:cool:;)

Good for you. I must say I'm very happy to hear that Nigel will be continuing in his role. I have every confidence in his abilities to get the results I want to read about. ;)

[Not Brazil]

I have every confidence in his abilities to get the results I want to read about. ;)

Aye, amongst the disappointments, we'll continue to surprise the "bigger lights" on occassion.

Having perused some of the wild fantasies on here, I'll be considering every time we take the field to be a "victory".

[Fixer82]

After 22 pages and countless other similar threads? Yes maybe it's time to put this to bed. An united Ireland team would effectively be the current Republic team. The IFA would be forced to move to Abbottstown and games would be played in Dublin. Any possible merger doesn't represent a joining of forces so to speak - it would represent our current team and a token player or two from NI. This isn't acceptable to the IFA or the NI support so along comes the hassle that we just don't need because we'd have different interest groups emerging that aren't all pulling in the same direction. Success at international level with the resources we have demands that everyone is 100% behind the team. This wouldn't be the case with an united team.


well then you do it at u-15 level and then bring the age higher every year with them. it would never be a case of just saying 'ok now we're an all-Ireland team so goodbye half of you and thanks for the effort'. these things take time but I think it's quite feasible.

Didnt Johnny Giles and co play Brazil with an All-Ireland team years ago wearing Shamrock Rovers jerseys? By all accounts it was a great success

[Gather round]

Didnt Johnny Giles and co play Brazil with an All-Ireland team years ago wearing Shamrock Rovers jerseys? By all accounts it was a great success

So successful they've repeated it in each of the 36 years since.

[ifk101]

well then you do it at u-15 level and then bring the age higher every year with them. it would never be a case of just saying 'ok now we're an all-Ireland team so goodbye half of you and thanks for the effort'. these things take time but I think it's quite feasible.

The FAI can pick every player, both sides of the border, at U15 level. ;)

The eligibility rules are such that the FAI can effectively build an All-Ireland team anyways. There's no need for the FAI to merge with the IFA to achieve this. If the IFA wants to join with us, they'll make it known. As it is they do not want to join with us. Respect that and move on.

[Not Brazil]

The FAI can pick every player, both sides of the border, at U15 level. ;)



I don't think you're right - I think it's a different set of rules that determine schoolboys football ie. like where you go to school.

[seanfhear]

After FIFAs last deliberations on players from any part of Ireland being able to play for Ireland (ROI) there is an all-Ireland team for those that want to play for it.

For various reasons some players will not take up this opportunity and as we have seen with our "own" Stephen Ireland it is noit possible to compel players to play for a country.

Its the state of Club football on the Island of Ireland that has to be improved. Nobody is saying for certain that an all-Ireland league will be the holy grail for club football on the island but it would bring better competition to the better Clubs on the island and afterall it is competition that drives up the quality.

If this god damn economic depression had not steamrolled the country I believe that there may have been an opportunity for either the Big TV franchises or wealthy entreprenneurs to put some money into an all-Ireland league.

Hopefully when the economic depression finally lifts some body/organisation will see an opportunity and put some investment into an all-Ireland league.

Football has opportunities to develope at club level on the Island. If for example Linfiel/Glentoran/Bohemians/St Paths were to make it to the group stages of the Champions league then think of the interest/money that this would generate.

This is not as unrealisable as some might think e.g. There is a team from Cyprus in the group stages of the Champions league this year.

[Not Brazil]

EG I admire your missionary zeal on behalf of the continuing existence of the NI team, but this debate always seems to lapse into thinly disguised political sniping. You consistently claim the mandate of speaking on behalf of NI supporters, and have also upholded the principle of "choice." There is surely one way that this debate could be resolved once and for all. let's use The Good Friday principle and actually ask the people of both parts of Ireland whether they want one ot two football teams. Now I would be completely happy to accept the result, but I kind of suspect you wouldn't. I feel your argument might be that only real NI suppoters (ie those who would be opposed to this) should have a vote. Why should Northern nationalist ("most of whom dont support NI anyway") or non-football fans have a say in this. "Sure we're all have a great wee time at Windsor park so whats the problem?"

You do understand the the Northern Ireland International team represents the Irish Football Association, right?

A "Company", that is a member of FIFA.

I don't like Burger King, but I can't call for a public vote to decide it's future.:rolleyes:

The IFA will decide it's future. It will do so, in relation to it's International representative teams, in consultation with it's international team's supporters.

Whilst your wee survey might be very interesting, it would change absolutely nothing. It would be totally irrelevant.

I'm more than happy for a survey amongst Northern Ireland players and blook bookers though - seeing as it's them directly involved.

Happy with that?

[ifk101]

I don't think you're right - I think it's a different set of rules that determine schoolboys football ie. like where you go to school.

Well I can't argue otherwise because I don't know myself the exact rules at that level. But my main point is that the current eligibility rules open the door for the "effective" creation of an All-Ireland team in the medium to long-term.


After FIFAs last deliberations on players from any part of Ireland being able to play for Ireland (ROI) there is an all-Ireland team for those that want to play for it.

For various reasons some players will not take up this opportunity and as we have seen with our "own" Stephen Ireland it is noit possible to compel players to play for a country.

Its the state of Club football on the Island of Ireland that has to be improved. Nobody is saying for certain that an all-Ireland league will be the holy grail for club football on the island but it would bring better competition to the better Clubs on the island and afterall it is competition that drives up the quality.

If this god damn economic depression had not steamrolled the country I believe that there may have been an opportunity for either the Big TV franchises or wealthy entreprenneurs to put some money into an all-Ireland league.

Hopefully when the economic depression finally lifts some body/organisation will see an opportunity and put some investment into an all-Ireland league.

Football has opportunities to develope at club level on the Island. If for example Linfiel/Glentoran/Bohemians/St Paths were to make it to the group stages of the Champions league then think of the interest/money that this would generate.

This is not as unrealisable as some might think e.g. There is a team from Cyprus in the group stages of the Champions league this year.

The Setanta Cup has shown that there is weak appetite for a cross-border competition. The general public couldn't care less about League of Ireland football, why would joining with a league that is currently ranked lower than the Faroe Islands league suddenly capture the attention of investors and the general public alike?

[Not Brazil]

But my main point is that the current eligibility rules open the door for the "effective" creation of an All-Ireland team in the medium to long-term.

Correct - the FAI are a, de facto, All Ireland Association.

[seanfhear]

The Setanta Cup has shown that there is weak appetite for a cross-border competition. The general public couldn't care less about League of Ireland football, why would joining with a league that is currently ranked lower than the Faroe Islands league suddenly capture the attention of investors and the general public alike?
Linfield/Glentoran have the potential to be successful clubs. They have large catchment areas to draw their supporters from. I do not think that too many of their potential supporters will be attracted by what the GAA has to offer;)

If either of these clubs were to qualify for the champions league group stages then there would be a lot of attention/money drawn to this.

If an all-Ireland league were to produce 1 or 2 clubs that got to the group stages of the champions league then the league would gain an enormous amount of credability/interest/money

If it can be done in Cyprus what is to say that it cannot be done on the Island of Ireland.

[Not Brazil]

Linfield/Glentoran have the potential to be successful clubs. They have large catchment areas to draw their supporters from. I do not think that too many of their potential supporters will be attracted by what the GAA has to offer;)

If either of these clubs were to qualify for the champions league group stages then there would be a lot of attention/money drawn to this.

If an all-Ireland league were to produce 1 or 2 clubs that got to the group stages of the champions league then the league would gain an enormous amount of credability/interest/money

If it can be done in Cyprus what is to say that it cannot be done on the Island of Ireland.

Does this "potential" success for Linfield FC and Glentoran FC not exist (if they put their minds to it) within the IL?

You seem to be suggesting that the existing EL + the Blues and Glens is the answer to all our domestic football woes.

How so?

I think IFK might be right, and you have really failed to address any of the points he/she raised.

[Riddickcule]

Is cyprus' league an all-island league ?

Also, how about we make this thread a poll ?

[third policeman]

So successful they've repeated it in each of the 36 years since.

And we have the IFA to thank for that. Interestingly the NI players involved including Dougan, Hamilton, Jennings and O'Neil did seem to think it was a success.

[Not Brazil]

And we have the IFA to thank for that. Interestingly the NI players involved including Dougan, Hamilton, Jennings and O'Neil did seem to think it was a success.

Yeah - they should of just said - "this is a class idea, let's clear the desks, and fcuk what our supporters think".:D

Catch yourself on.

And...Dougan, Hamilton (subsequently managed Northern Ireland), Jennings and O'Neill (both of whom subsequently played at World Cup Finals) should have said..."That was sh**e".:D

[Gather round]

why would joining with a league that is currently ranked lower than the Faroe Islands league suddenly capture the attention of investors and the general public alike?

I'll admit to giggling at that. No-one expects miracles, let along an Irish League club getting to a European quarter-final as they did in the 70s. But we should not be getting worse results in Europe than the Faroes and Liechtenstein ;)


Is cyprus' league an all-island league ?

Some of the clubs are originally from towns which are now in the Turkish-controlled part of the island (eg Anorthosis Famagusta). But they now play in the Greek sector, so basically no.


Also, how about we make this thread a poll ?

Go ahead, but what's the point? We already know there are some stirrers aming the South's support.


And we have the IFA to thank for that

Don't be absurd. Do you seriously think there's been a demand for it from NI fans?

[ArdeeBhoy]

But Best, Dougan & Jennings all spoke in favour of a United Ireland team.

Perhaps they were less :rolleyes: insecure than the fans....

[Not Brazil]

Perhaps they were less :rolleyes: insecure than the fans....

Trust me AB, I'm very secure...and proud of the Northern Ireland team.

[The Fly]

It's gibberish, not any sort of science, however many times I re-read it.


GR - yet another sterling reply, keep it up! :rolleyes:

While my post on the subject may have been somewhat pedantic, it remains technically correct. :p

[seanfhear]

Does this "potential" success for Linfield FC and Glentoran FC not exist (if they put their minds to it) within the IL?

You seem to be suggesting that the existing EL + the Blues and Glens is the answer to all our domestic football woes.

How so?

I think IFK might be right, and you have really failed to address any of the points he/she raised.
Both the IL and the LOI have been stumbling along for donkeys years. I think that if they were going to produce the improvements in club football that we would all like to see then they would have done it by now.

An all Ireland league does not have to be any threat to the status of either International team.
So long as each FA retains their equivalent of the FA cup then they are entitled to have their International side.

If anyone has some better ideas to improve the standard and interest of club football on this Island then I would be delighted to hear them.

One advantage of a league situation over the Setanta cup is that with an home and away game against all opposition each year there is the opportunity to develope healthy rivalries;)

Also with league championships at stake and European places there would be a real desire to do well in the competition.

For any one thats worried I will repeat that an all Ireland league does not need to be a threat to either of the National sides.

[Not Brazil]

If anyone has some better ideas to improve the standard and interest of club football on this Island then I would be delighted to hear them.

One advantage of a league situation over the Setanta cup is that with an home and away game against all opposition each year there is the opportunity to develope healthy rivalries;)

Also with league championships at stake and European places there would be a real desire to do well in the competition.


1. An AI "Premier" league is something I'd be keen to discuss/consider. I was hoping you could explain to me how it would be truly beneficial to domestic football on this island...as I see it, it would be an EL + Linfield FC and Glentoran FC. That being the case, how would it really transform Irish domestic football?

2. Setanta Cup group matches are played "home and away".

3. There are league championships and European places available in BOTH leagues at present...how would this be a benefit, therefore, in an AI "Premier" League?

[Acornvilla]

1. An AI "Premier" league is something I'd be keen to discuss/consider. I was hoping you could explain to me how it would be truly beneficial to domestic football on this island...as I see it, it would be an EL + Linfield FC and Glentoran FC. That being the case, how would it really transform Irish domestic football?

2. Setanta Cup group matches are played "home and away".

3. There are league championships and European places available in BOTH leagues at present...how would this be a benefit, therefore, in an AI "Premier" League?
increased prize money and possibly get sky involved in showing matches like ihe IL hads gotten them to do? skys advertisement wold be a big help and itv,bbc1,rte,tg4 and tv3 could show a match every week between them. lots of tv involved and possibly setanta if there alive and kill the setanta cup obviously.:)
just bloody bombard people with it!

[ArdeeBhoy]

Didnt Johnny Giles and co play Brazil with an All-Ireland team years ago wearing Shamrock Rovers jerseys? By all accounts it was a great success

Yes, it's been too long! We should start a campaign for a re-match?

[Not Brazil]

Yes, it's been too long! We should start a campaign for a re-match?

Good luck with that.:)


increased prize money and possibly get sky involved in showing matches like ihe IL hads gotten them to do? skys advertisement wold be a big help and itv,bbc1,rte,tg4 and tv3 could show a match every week between them. lots of tv involved and possibly setanta if there alive and kill the setanta cup obviously.:)
just bloody bombard people with it!

That's all well and good, but how does that doesn't really deal with the issue.

How, exactly, does the EL + The Blues and Glens signify the cure for all the problems with the domestic game on the island?

Regarding "bombarding people with it", could that not just apply to the two respective leagues...ie. the two leagues do more to market what they've respectively got?

Unfortunately, we've got too many Premiership, SPL etc fans on the island, who wouldn't set foot inside the ground of their local club. Getting them out of the armchair/bar to watch domestic football is a big ask. :(

I just don't think the answer to that is the EL + The Blues and Glens.

[ArdeeBhoy]

That's more to do with the quality of the 'product' being cr*p.

And the snotty-nosed attitude of fans on all sides.

[seanfhear]

1. An AI "Premier" league is something I'd be keen to discuss/consider. I was hoping you could explain to me how it would be truly beneficial to domestic football on this island...as I see it, it would be an EL + Linfield FC and Glentoran FC. That being the case, how would it really transform Irish domestic football?

2. Setanta Cup group matches are played "home and away".

3. There are league championships and European places available in BOTH leagues at present...how would this be a benefit, therefore, in an AI "Premier" League?
First off Not Brazil TRY SOME POSITIVITY

It does not just have to be Linfield and Glentoran. There could be more clubs from NI if they could show that they would have something to contribute to the league. Clubs from the LOI would have to do the exact same thing. I just singled out Linfield and Glentoran as they are clubs with obvious potential.

Surely better clubs playing against one another must drive up standards. Better clubs competing against one another to obtain European places/league championships/better prize money has to produce a better product for the fan too watch.

Lets just say for a minute that I had a magic wand and I could give an all-Ireland league two champions league places and 3/4 Europa league places and much improved television coverage and better prize money for clubs doing well.

Do you think that this would create a greater interest in club football on the Island. Now I am not saying for a minute that these things can be achieved but if they are not aimed for they certainly will not be achieved.

With the clubs in England having the pick of the best young players from all over the world I worry that neither of the FAs will have enough young players developed in England in the future. If the clubs on this island do not get their act together where will young Irish players be developed in the future. (I am getting a bit negative myself here)

If we keep on doing the same old things in the same old way we will continue getting the same old results.

The status quo is broke.

Its time to open up our imaginations and come up with new solutions.

I am willing to listen to all constructive proposals.

[ifk101]

I am willing to listen to all constructive proposals.

seanfhear;

If you can manage to come with a viable proposal, I'm sure you'll get constructive responses.

But what the heck, here's my proposal.

I suggest that LOI clubs stop spending money they don't have. End.

[seanfhear]

seanfhear;

If you can manage to come with a viable proposal, I'm sure you'll get constructive responses.

But what the heck, here's my proposal.

I suggest that LOI clubs stop spending money they don't have. End.
Nothing wrong with that suggestion. This is a problem that FAs around the world have. Some wide boys for various reasons spend more money than clubs can afford. This has probably more to do with Company law and I suppose the same can be said of Companies in other "industries" as well.

These wide boys know that they are not personally responsible for these debts and are happy to play fast and loose with club finances.

These guys are the kind of hucksters that will let a perfectly viable company go bust if there is more money to be made from letting it go bust.

There were a crowd of crooks running a club in North london approx 20 years ago and every bit of work or service that was done for that club was done at inflated prices so that certain people were looked after. These people did not care that they were bankrupting the club as they were not going to be resposible for the debt and were on some nice little earners.

Anyway to stop clubs spending more money that they have got you would have to reform Capitalism and the people that are partaking in it. Good luck.
Apologies for going way off topic

[Not Brazil]

That's more to do with the quality of the 'product' being cr*p.

And the snotty-nosed attitude of fans on all sides.

I would hope that many EL fans would agree with me, but I don't subscribe entirely to "the product is crap" mindset.

It might be "crap" in comparison to, say, Premiership football, but I have watched many excellent games involving clubs from both Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.

Have you watched some of the SPL stuff on TV? - it's brutal.

I believe that Sky are very happy with the audiences they get for IL coverage, and have been quite surprised at the "product" on offer.

I broadly support the concept of an AI "Premier" League - I just cannot work out the real benefits of it.

Would it really increase attendances?

Would it damage Clubs outside of it?

Would it place Clubs in even more financial peril?

How would European places be effected?

Just some of the questions I cannot answer.



Lets just say for a minute that I had a magic wand and I could give an all-Ireland league two champions league places and 3/4 Europa league places and much improved television coverage and better prize money for clubs doing well.


We have TWO Champions League places on the island.

We have at least four Europa League places available on the island.

We have regular coverage of live games.

[Acornvilla]

We have TWO Champions League places on the island.

We have at least four Europa League places available on the island.

We have regular coverage of live games.

coverage could and should be much better.

[seanfhear]

We have TWO Champions League places on the island.

We have at least four Europa League places available on the island.

We have regular coverage of live games.
It would be a big asset to an all Ireland league if we could retain all of these places from one league.

[backstothewall]

I would hope that many EL fans would agree with me, but I don'tr subsribe entirely to "the product is crap".


Perhaps on the pitch, but the match day experience is very poor. The facilites are terrible, and the experience just isn't sexy enough. Perimeter fences, ramshackle stands, stadiums stuck at the end of pokey terraced streets, parking, sectarianism, dreadful websites, dog-tracks round the pitch, etc etc. The football can be decent enough, but the product is crap.

There are signs of life, Crusaders proposals for the Grove for example, but will they ever get off the drawing board? They didn't even manage to rebuild the wall that blew over at the railway end. Just stuck up a bit of fence and left it.

[Not Brazil]

Perhaps on the pitch, but the match day experience is very poor. The facilites are terrible, and the experience just isn't sexy enough. Perimeter fences, ramshackle stands, stadiums stuck at the end of pokey terraced streets, parking, sectarianism, dreadful websites, dog-tracks round the pitch, etc etc. The football can be decent enough, but the product is crap.

There are signs of life, Crusaders proposals for the Grove for example, but will they ever get off the drawing board? They didn't even manage to rebuild the wall that blew over at the railway end. Just stuck up a bit of fence and left it.

There is plenty wrong with what some think is "sexy" elsewhere - but that's a whole different story.

If you want your football "sexy", then the EL or IL is not the place to be.

If you want relatively few overpaid prima donnas, no alice bands, no prawn sandwiches, relatively little gamemanship, and to watch guys giving their all primarily for the love of the game (rather than fortunes)...I think it's ok.

Plenty of progress with stadia being made in Northern Ireland - not finished yet, but it going in the right direction.


coverage could and should be much better.

Sky's coverage of IL games has been excellent.

More of the same please....

[Fixer82]

Good luck with that.:)

I just love your positivity!!!! So refreshing!

[backstothewall]

There is plenty wrong with what some think is "sexy" elsewhere - but that's a whole different story.

If you want your football "sexy", then the EL or IL is not the place to be.

If you want relatively few overpaid prima donnas, no alice bands, no prawn sandwiches, relatively little gamemanship, and to watch guys giving their all primarily for the love of the game (rather than fortunes)...I think it's ok.


Precisely why would decent facilites, good catering, or toilet blocks that don't smell like something died in them a couple of years back stop the players giving 100%?

I don't see how something Roy Keane cited as an example about 70,000 people not making much noise applies to the debate when we are talking about teams who get a couple of hundred people through the gates most weeks :rolleyes:

And what is so evil about prawn sandwiches? Why does wanting to buy a prawn sandwich and a cappiacino (sp) at half time make someone less of a fan than the guy who brings a bag of crisps and a can of coke? Fact is they both pay through the gate, but Prawn sandwich man is currently happier sitting in the house watching Gilette Soccer Saturday, or cutting the grass.

There is actually more commercial opportunity for IL/LOI clubs through catering and other secondary sales than through gate receipts. No one will ever pay EPL ticket prices, but the profit margin on a prawn sandwich is the same at Old Trafford as it is at the Oval or Shamrock Park.

[Stuttgart88]

I suggest that LOI clubs stop spending money they don't have. End.Why is it that when people finish a statement with "end" or "end of" there are usually dozens of possible counters or additions that the poster seemingly doesn't want to listen to?

I've an open mind on an AIL. Years ago the Longford Town goalkeeper was interviewed on foot.ie and he said that there were good players in Ireland, but not enough to be spread around all the teams in the top league. So fewer teams with more good players per team is needed. An AIL could improve the average playing standard in a 10-12 team top flight - same number of teams but the playing population is increased.

My instinct is that a wholesale restructuring of European football, or its competitions, may be the answer. I'm considering focusing on this topic for a degree dissertation I have to submit next year.

With regard to the two associations merging, I don't think NI fans should be made to accept a 32 county national side if they don't want to. Nor should ROI fans for that matter. It's a bit of a goofed up situation where a state / country (Britain) has 4 international teams and a tiny island has 2 but that's the way it is I guess.

[Stuttgart88]

And what is so evil about prawn sandwiches? Why does wanting to buy a prawn sandwich and a cappiacino (sp) at half time make someone less of a fan than the guy who brings a bag of crisps and a can of coke? I always wondered when Keane made that remark if he appreciated that attracting that type of customer was part of the reason he got paid so much. MUFC could charge less for tickets and pay their players less accordingly, but I'm sure RK wouldn't have liked that either.

[ifk101]

Why is it that when people finish a statement with "end" or "end of" there are usually dozens of possible counters or additions that the poster seemingly doesn't want to listen to?

Perhaps the poster is distracted by the pie in the sky.


I've an open mind on an AIL. Years ago the Longford Town goalkeeper was interviewed on foot.ie and he said that there were good players in Ireland, but not enough to be spread around all the teams in the top league. So fewer teams with more good players per team is needed. An AIL could improve the average playing standard in a 10-12 team top flight - same number of teams but the playing population is increased.

If we look at the current country ranking for European leagues, the LOI is ranked 29th and the IL 49th out of 53 leagues. Merging the LOI and IL would be the equivalent of the LOI merging with the Dutch league (currently ranked 9th in Europe). Yes the playing population would be increased if the LOI joined with the Dutch but would the average playing standard also increase? LOI clubs would certainly benefit from playing against higher quality Dutch opposition but would the playing standard of Dutch clubs improve from playing LOI sides? I wonder did Digger O'Brien consider that.

[osarusan]

If we look at the current country ranking for European leagues, the LOI is ranked 29th and the IL 49th out of 53 leagues. Merging the LOI and IL would be the equivalent of the LOI merging with the Dutch league (currently ranked 9th in Europe). Yes the playing population would be increased if the LOI joined with the Dutch but would the average playing standard also increase? LOI clubs would certainly benefit from playing against higher quality Dutch opposition but would the playing standard of Dutch clubs improve from playing LOI sides? I wonder did Digger O'Brien consider that.
While that may seem the logical "equivalent" when you add or subtract 20 to the LOI's ranking to get 9 or 49, I don't think the gap between LOI and IL is the same as the gap between the Dutch league and LOI. I don't think you think that either.

[ifk101]

While that may seem the logical "equivalent" when you add or subtract 20 to the LOI's ranking to get 9 or 49, I don't think the gap between LOI and IL is the same as the gap between the Dutch league and LOI. I don't think you think that either.

I just used that to highlight that there is a gap in standard between the two leagues that (a) would need the IL clubs catch up fast, or (b) LOI clubs to come down to IL level or (c), the most likely, IL club standards to increase with LOIs standard decreasing to meet somewhere in the middle. If we are talking purely about playing standards, merging is not of benefit for LOI clubs.

[osarusan]

If we are talking purely about playing standards, merging is not of benefit for LOI clubs.
Fair enough.

Though I don't think that any AIL has ever been about playing standards.

[ifk101]

Fair enough.

Though I don't think that any AIL has ever been about playing standards.

Well that's the problem. Football isn't the motivation behind AIL calls. That's why I'm against it.