Jamie O'Hara

[EalingGreen]

Conor Devlin Manchester United 23.09.91

Gareth Deane QPR 14.06.94



Defenders

Ryan McGivern Manchester City 08.01.90

Chris Hegarty Rangers 12.08.92

Daniel Devine Preston North End 07.09.92



Midfielders

Paddy McLaughlin Newcastle United 14.01.91

Shane Ferguson Newcastle United 12.07.91

Seanan Clucas Preston North End 08.11.92What was the significance of singling out those 8 players from the 18 listed immediately above?

[EalingGreen]

Barton's Irish link

http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/bohs-close-to-first-signings-bartons-irish-link-2536132.htmlIs the writer of that note on Barton not even capable of Googling?

For if he was, he would be aware that with Barton's Irish ancestry deriving from NI, the player was first invited to join the NI squad, but declined due to his England ambitions.
He then accepted a call-up for a subsequent friendly, making his senior NI debut (a draw with Morocco), on the basis that NW was prepared to let him get more acquainted without tying him down.
And most recently Barton declined a call-up to the Nations Cup game v Scotland, presumably because he still hankers after playing for England, and/or he didn't enjoy his previous NI experience.

Either way, there is absolutely no indication that he might even consider representing ROI...

[EalingGreen]

I think in fairness to O'Hara its like this.

With England there is strong potential to win major tournaments. Realistically with Ireland if we even made the semi's we'd be delighted.Realistically, England's chances of winning a WC or Euro's are marginally greater than ROI's of reaching a semi etc on a "Bob Hope and No Hope" basis.

I'd say England offer a realistic chance of qualifying for major finals and making the 1/4's (but not much else). Whereas with their present group of players, ROI offer only an outside chance of qualifying and little else.

All of which is academic, since O'Hara has little or no chance of establishing himself in the England team and whilst Trap is in charge of ROI, he seems to have little chance of getting a call-up from them.

Meanwhile, I suspect Nigel would have him like a shot, and he'd certainly add to our team, but he's clearly not interested. I wonder would that change if by some (unlikely) chance we managed to qualify for Poland/Ukraine?

[EalingGreen]

I reckon it goes something like this with O'Hara. I'm eligible to play for both Ireland and Canada. Obviously I would love nothing more than to play for Ireland as I grew up watching the Jack Charlton teams and playing football in Ireland with all my friends as children. Now, were I good enough to play professional football for the likes of Spurs, I'd be hoping to get a call up for Ireland. If I didn't, I would probably wait it out as long as I possibly could before accepting a call up for Canada. Sorry, but Canada are not very good in comparison to Ireland and I don't consider myself a Canadian anyway. I think I'd wait until I was about thirty, and there was no chance at all of an Ireland call up. Then, and only then, would I consider turning out for my second choice, Canada. They'd be lucky to have a player the calibre of Tottenham Hotspur turn out for them.

So you see kids, we need to give O'Hara a break. He's been nothing but honest about wanting to play for England the entire time.I think you underrate Spurs's standing and/or overrate the ROI's standing.

The fact is, in recent years, Spurs have only had one ROI international playing regularly in our team, Robbie Keane, and that was whilst he was at his peak, whilst also being ROI's best player (alongside Given and Duff).

But now that he's passed his peak, he's still one of ROI's best players, but Spurs have shipped him out to West Ham.

For your analogy to work better, you might substitute eg "Stoke", "Wolves" or "Wigan" for Spurs...

[paul_oshea]

What was the significance of singling out those 8 players from the 18 listed immediately above?

From what I have heard/seen of them they are the outstanding prospects from a generally, ordinary group.

I would expect them to go on and make a good career for themselves.

[ifk101]

Outstanding prospects? :bigsmile:

[TrapAPony]

Either way, there is absolutely no indication that Barton might even consider representing ROI...

You hope.

[paul_oshea]

Yes ifk101, they are like a farmer...

[EalingGreen]

You hope.OK, I'll rephrase it: "Either way, there is absolutely no indication that Barton is even considering representing ROI..."

Happy now?

[TrapAPony]

OK, I'll rephrase it: "Either way, there is absolutely no indication that Barton is even considering representing ROI..."

Happy now?

No, try again.:)

[Plastic Paddy]

Realistically, England's chances of winning a WC or Euro's are marginally greater than ROI's of reaching a semi etc on a "Bob Hope and No Hope" basis.

I'd say England offer a realistic chance of qualifying for major finals and making the 1/4's (but not much else). Whereas with their present group of players, ROI offer only an outside chance of qualifying and little else.

At a guess, EG, you'd be old enough to remember (or not senile enough yet to forget ;) ) the 2002 World Cup. You'll remember that Ireland came very close to reaching the QFs, losing on penalties to Spain in the round-of-16. What you may not remember is the easy run to the final enjoyed by Germany having won Ireland's qualifying group, a group that Ireland could so easily have won themselves. It's not therefore the stretch you suggest to imagine Ireland repeating such a feat at some point in the near future.

As for Barton, I agree completely. It's an embarrassment to think that the FAI may be chasing this player when there are several more directly-qualified candidates available. No thanks Adam and good luck with your international career. Even if it's with the Nordies. :D

:ball: PP

[Junior]

You're not wrong in what you say PP, however were it not for an injury time equaliser in game 2 we could easily have been on the plane home.....as ever its a fine line.

[ifk101]

You're not wrong in what you say PP, however were it not for an injury time equaliser in game 2 we could easily have been on the plane home.....as ever its a fine line.

Isn't that the point he is making?

[bwagner]

The best way to sort all this possible call ups out ,Trap the ever lazy old git should arrange a B game against Turkey or somebody and call up the like of Ambrose, Cox, O Hara, and Connolly, Barton etc , then call up the likes of Adam Rooney, Daly and Sammon

[Junior]

Isn't that the point he is making?

I guess - early morning, just focussed on the 'we could so easily have won the group' bit....

[geysir]

It's up to Mick Martin to find out about Barton's intentions re international football. That's part of Martin's job description.
He should do that job without prejudice. He should check out those who are eligible and if they are good enough, he can leave them with the choice of declaring for the FAI.

What if the wrong word had gone out that a promising player was only interested in representing England and nobody from the FAI bothered to find out for themselves the player's intentions? But i'm sure everybody here would be very understanding of the FAI's excuses in such an incident :rolleyes:

[ifk101]

He is employed as a scout, not a genealogist.

Reading the bit in the Herald (not the most reliable of sources), it appears the FAI have been tipped off about Barton's eligibility. Sean St. Ledger (the doc) posts here a semi-regular basis so maybe he can provide some insight.

[paul_oshea]

Lads does anyone know about this u17 lad Harry Kane. EG any irish in him?

Ive been told he does by a spurs mate, but Im not sure how accurate this info is. How do we email the FAI to let them know?

[bwagner]

on loan at Leyton Orient

[geysir]

He is employed as a scout, not a genealogist.

Are you trying to be smart?
MM was scouting eligible players. That's part of his job. It should not be left to some FAI suit to decide how committed a player might be, based on some media report.
If an eligible player has any serious intent he can pursue that interest.
Possibly Ciaran Clark did some interview sometime where he was asked how it felt to represent England and he replied that it was an honour, the highlight of his playing career. That doesn't mean the lad hasn't higher aspirations and should not be informed/reminded of his eligibility for the FAI.

[Kingdom]

. Sean St. Ledger (the doc) posts here a semi-regular basis so maybe he can provide some insight.


I lol'd!

[DannyInvincible]

Just happened to be looking at goalkeepers in the Arsenal ranks for my Fantasy PL team and stumbled across the surname 'Shea'. Obviously it stood out as being distinctly Irish. Had a search for any mention of him on here but didn't come across any. Maybe I missed it; apologies if so.

http://www.arsenal.com/reserves-youth/players/james-shea

Anyway, although Islington-born, and in the absence of being able to find a more authoritative source, according to a Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Half_price/James_Shea) presumably pre-prepared by a user for inclusion on the general site once Shea makes a senior appearance, he's eligible to play for both us and England.


James Shea (born June 6, 1991) is a is an English footballer. He currently plays for Arsenal and his position is goalkeeper.

After excelling in the triumphant FA Youth Cup and Premier Academy League ‘double' winning-side of 2008–09, James played six times for the Reserves in 2009–10, signing a new contract with Arsenal in February 2011.

His first inclusion in the first team squad was against West Bromwich Albion in the Football League Cup in September 2009.

In August 2010, due to a goalkeepering shortage while the England team trained for an upcoming match Shea was drafted in to help Joe Hart practice. Shea can represent both England and the Republic of Ireland at international level, but has yet to play at any level for either nation.

[DannyInvincible]

Found an article from the Daily Mail about his training session with the England team: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1307821/England-No-1-Joe-Hart-joined-Arsenal-rookie-James-Shea-goalkeeper-crisis-deepens.html


Faced with injuries to Foster (knee) and Scott Carson (back), Fabio Capello had to turn to Arsene Wenger in desperation and ask to borrow a goalkeeper for a practice match.

So up stepped 19-year-old James Shea, joining Hart for a few training drills before being chipped — so Theo Walcott said — by Wayne Rooney from 18 yards.
‘It was a good experience for him,’ added Walcott.

Born in Islington but eligible to represent the Republic of Ireland, Shea began as a midfielder before being converted into a keeper.

Presumably, Wenger could have thrown in any of his reserve keepers so I don't necessarily think a training session with the England team at Arsenal's training ground, most likely because Shea just happened to be there anyway, would be indicative of any current or future national allegiance...

[Stuttgart88]

I saw him in the FA Youth Cup Final against Liverpool. Arsenal were so dominant my missus could have been in goals.

[gastric]

James Shea has gone on loan to Southampton for a month. It will be good to track his progress and see what potential he actually has. Arsenal and quality goalkeepers is something that doesn't often come to mind!

[SkStu]

Pat Jennings, John Lukic, David Seaman and possibly even Lehmann ??

[Charlie Darwin]

They don't really produce them though, do they? Jenning was Spurs, Seaman was QPR and Lehmann was... Dortmund. Never really rated Lukic.

[SkStu]

oh okay fair enough! Thats not what i got from gastrics post.

I was a big Lukic fan.

[gastric]

Thanks Charlie! We live in hope that Shea and McDermott break the mould!

[Charlie Darwin]

I think I was always put off by Lukic's stupid hair. Not the most relevant criteria on which to base my judgement of a footballer, granted, but good enough I think.

edit: seems Lehmann came through at Schalke and Jennings at Watford. Shows what I know.

[Stuttgart88]

The Polish guy Szczezny or whatever his name is looks the real deal. He has massive self confidence / presence which is an important asset.

[Yard of Pace]

Stick him in midfield, I say. He can't be any worse than PG.

[Drumcondra 69er]

They don't really produce them though, do they? Jenning was Spurs, Seaman was QPR and Lehmann was... Dortmund. Never really rated Lukic.

Lukic was Leeds anyway first off. Seaman was his understudy at Leeds funnily enough. To think that Leeds released Seaman, Irwin and Phelan when they were in Division 2 in the 80's, madness....

[CraftyToePoke]

Lukic was Leeds anyway first off. Seaman was his understudy at Leeds funnily enough. To think that Leeds released Seaman, Irwin and Phelan when they were in Division 2 in the 80's, madness....

I know, I saw Irwin interviewed once about his release and move to Oldham and he was asked by the interviewer about the reasons given by Billy Bremner, and Irwin just said 'oh, not good enough' folllowed by a smirk suggesting he had enjoyed proving Bremner had gotten that one wrong, to put it mildly.

[gastric]

It seems that I have inadvertently started a bit of debate here about Arsenal goalkeepers. One mentioned as being a quality goalkeeper is Lehmann. Lehmann to me was a flapper under pressure who tended to punch the ball rather than catch which often lead to Arsenal conceding goals and a defence looking on in derision. Throughout his Arsenal career, replacement keepers were regularly mentioned and he did not enjoy the best relationship with Wenger and the other players. Such memories give me the impression he was a functional goalkeeper rather quality, whose Arsenal career lasted longer than it should have.

[Stuttgart88]

Agree re-Lehmann being functional rather than quality, although he played very well throughout their 2006 CL campaign. For such a big guy he was a total pussy, over-reacting to any contact from a forward, even the slightest touch. However, he had a self-confidence and assuredness, possibly a bit misplaced, that was a key part of that team. They had natural leaders all the way up the middle from back to front.

I think attitude is a key ingredient for a winning 'keeper,

[Colbert Report]

Is it too late to give Darron Gibson back to the north?

[Plastic Paddy]

Is it too late to give Darron Gibson back to the north?

Did you watch the last Ireland game? Or yesterday's FA Cup match? You've clearly forgotten the goal he scored against Wales and failed to notice the number of passes he picked out for team-mates yesterday. What a daft comment.

:ball: PP

[Paddy Garcia]

Dear Mod

Can I please get a special flag any time (if ever) there is a relevant update posted on this thread?

Kind Regards

[Stuttgart88]

He can't be any worse than PG.You referring to Paul Green or Paddy Garcia?

[Stuttgart88]

Dear Mod

Can I please get a special flag any time (if ever) there is a relevant update posted on this thread?

Kind RegardsO'Hara puts Wolves 1 up against WBA. Is that deserving of a flag?

[gally]

interesting interview with O H'ara with talksport stating that he is not sure wether he qualifies to play for us, but if he receives a call, might well take that opportunity.
http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/sports-breakfast/blog/2011-02-21/ohara-ill-consider-playing-republic-ireland

[Closed Account]

http://www.talksport.co.uk/radio/sports-breakfast/blog/2011-02-21/ohara-ill-consider-playing-republic-ireland
Asked about international future

"Yeah, I mean I don't know what the scenario is to be honest because, em, I mean they asked me before and there was something where I couldn't play and then its been changed recently, eh, something to do with playing in the Under 21's and you know I think the rules been changed. So I'm not sure whats been going on, obviously I've been injured for a while so I haven't really thought about it. But you know if I get a phone call then obviously its something I'll have to think about and discuss with my family because obviously everyone wants to play on the international stage. So I'm not sure whether I can play, I'm not 100% on the situation but I will definitely be interested."Asked would he like to play for Republic of Ireland

Yeah, I mean obviously all my family are Republic of Ireland, all live in Wicklow, so I've got a big Irish Family and they are always phoning me up, saying, come play for Ireland. But obviously through the young stages, I've always played for England, so you know I didn't want to be disrespectful and say I play for Ireland and I'm not 100%. Now I think the opportunity has come, I'm 24 years old. I'm playing Premier League football, hopefully on a regular basis so If I get the phone call then its something I'll look at.
Obviously.

[Noelys Guitar]

Wolves best player yesterday and a fairly honest interview. Would improve the team.

[IsMiseSean]

So he has finally realised that he won't be getting an England call up...

[shakermaker1982]

Good player but he was aware the rules had changed a year ago and he said then (SSN interview when out fishing I think) that he'd have to think about it.

I mean come on it's hardly taxing on the brain.

Do I want to play for Ireland?

YES. INFORM FAI.

or

NO. Hold out for an England call up. Lampard & Gerrard are starting to fall apart.

[TrapAPony]

NO. Hold out for an England call up. Lampard & Gerrard are starting to fall apart.

Barry, Carrick, Parker, Wilshere, Henderson, Milner, Huddlestone and even Rodwell, Cattermole & Muamba would likely be ahead of him after that. Don't see him playing for England at all and I think he has finally woken up in that regard.

[SkStu]

the one thing he has going for him in relation to an English call up is that he is a ciotóg. Not too many of those knocking around the English midfield. I dont think a big enough deal to get him a call up though. i think he will end up playing for us soon going on those quotes.

[Closed Account]

Assuming the whole agent looking for a guaranteed starting berth was either about Noble or was just another Trapattoni misunderstood interview, I'd still have reservations about calling up O'Hara.

Without going down the whole, "who should be representing the country?" route because its a can of worms,
any good manager would make sure that fasttracking someone like O'Hara into the squad didn't disrupt the squad dynamic. I'd definitely pass it by some of the more senior members or ask the captain to have a word with the squad.
I think it was Noel Hunt or someone who alluded to the fact that some of the Irish born players felt that a foreign born Irishman was more likely to be called up if it was a straight choice. This should never be the case. I mean Paul Green told the FAI that he qualified and he was in the next squad. Would the same work for Michael Doyle or Alan Dunne?

btw, in the case of "who should be representing the country?" debate, I'd prefer if we didn't have to call up the likes of O'Hara, Noble etc. At the end of the day, I feel the national team is representing me and people like me who've wanted to pull on a green shirt since I was 4 years old. And with 4 million people, we should have more than enough to put out a good side. But if O'Hara did get called up, I'd support him no less than Damian Duff, Kevin Kilbane or Clinton Morrison.

[CraftyToePoke]

I feel a bit insulted by him now taking the 'I wasnt sure if I could play for Ireland or not' line if I'm honest, as well as being insulted by his repeated online pandering to Capello also while keeping the Ireland option nudged tactically open at all times, he knows well he is eligible, just didnt want to play for us untill it was a last resort.

Still, we are about to be represented by this guy I'd say looking at that interview. Cant say I want to be though.