Jamie O'Hara

[third policeman]

Connor Wickham qualifies for ROI in precisley the same way that he qualifies for NI - through his Irish / Northern Irish born father. I am amazed that this is a genuine question as Worthington's move for Wickham has received massive media coverage and generated significant discussion on OWC.If I didn't know you better EG I would think you were trying to start an argument.

[Charlie Darwin]

In what way does Wickham qualify for ROI (genuine question)?

Apparently he's not interested in representing ROI:
http://foot.ie/threads/32920-Reading-star-rules-out-Irish-switch(now-says-he-would-consider-it)?highlight=Kitson

Though if you wait a week, he might reconsider (see post #80)...
What about post #80? I doubt Kitson would change his mind. He's one of the more balanced/articulate footballers around and he basically said he doesn't feel Irish so why would he play for us.

Billy Mehmet might as well declare for Turkey. He has never been in the frame for us and Turkey are currently in the process of replacing a lot of veterans.

[Wolfie]

Connor Wickham qualifies for ROI in precisley the same way that he qualifies for NI - through his Irish / Northern Irish born father. I am amazed that this is a genuine question as Worthington's move for Wickham has received massive media coverage and generated significant discussion on OWC.If I didn't know you better EG I would think you were trying to start an argument.

That was the posting equivalent of a biting tackle in the first minute. Third Policeman letting EG know he's there, Bill.

[Sullivinho]

but some e.g. Simon Cox have said they would like to play for us.

Indeed. From 2009: "If Giovanni Trapattoni or anyone from the FAI gave me a call then the first thing I'd say would be 'yes, I'd be delighted to come on board'. "When I was at Reading, I regularly told Kevin Doyle and Stephen Hunt about my availability. We didn't go into huge detail about it - because it's not their responsibility to pick the team."

[EalingGreen]

Connor Wickham qualifies for ROI in precisley the same way that he qualifies for NI - through his Irish / Northern Irish born father. I am amazed that this is a genuine question as Worthington's move for Wickham has received massive media coverage and generated significant discussion on OWC.If I didn't know you better EG I would think you were trying to start an argument.Really?

The normal basis for establishing a player's "nationality" according to FIFA is Article 15. Under this Article, Wickham qualifies for England (obviously).

However, having been born in the UK, Wickham is (evidently) British. As such, he is also defined by FIFA as a player whose "Nationality [entitles him] to represent more than one Association" (Article 16). Obviously the four Associations he may therefore theoretically represent are the FA, FAW, SFA and IFA.

However, in order to be eligible for any of them, Art.16 also specifies that he must satisfy one of the following:
(a ) "He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;"
(b ) "His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;"
(c ) "His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;"
(d ) "He has lived continuously on the territory of the relevant Association for at least two years."
Therefore Wickham is "English" under (a ), but also "Northern Irish" under (b ).

Of course, since his father is from NI, Wickham is also eligible to apply for, and would doubtless receive, Irish Nationality.

However, he does not satisfy the basic eligibility test for the ROI, imposed by FIFA in Article 15, since he was not in receipt of Irish Nationality automatically from birth (as, say, Darron Gibson was).

Therefore in applying for Irish nationality, Wickham would be defined by FIFA as being someone who is making "Acquiring a new nationality" (Article 17).

And Article 17 states:

"Any Player who refers to art.15 par.1 to assume a new nationality... ... shall be eligible to play for the new representative team only if he fulfils one of the following conditions:
(a ) "He was born on the territory of the relevant Association;"
(b ) "His biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association;"
(c ) "His grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association;"
(d ) "He has lived continuously for at least five years after reaching the age of 18 on the territory of the relevant Association"

Therefore, unless you consider Northern Ireland to be part of the "territory" of the FAI, as I read FIFA's Articles either Wickham's mother, or one of his grandparents, will need to have been born in the Republic of Ireland in order to represent the FAI.

And I have not seen any reports to that effect.

[AlaskaFox]

He's not going to change from England anyway. You'll never see him in a green jersey, north or south.

[Charlie Darwin]

However, he does not satisfy the basic eligibility test for the ROI, imposed by FIFA in Article 15, since he was not in receipt of Irish Nationality automatically from birth (as, say, Darron Gibson was).
http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2004/a3804.pdf

Article 6 - a child of somebody born in Northern Ireland has exactly the same entitlement to Irish nationality as somebody born in Northern Ireland. The law is very clear.

Besides, the precedent has been set with Alex Bruce.

edit: and Wickham will play for England so it's a moot point really

[EalingGreen]

That was the posting equivalent of a biting tackle in the first minute. Third Policeman letting EG know he's there, Bill.

Vinnie [Jones] still holds the world record for the quickest booking, according to the FA's David Barber -a distinction he "earned" after a foul on Dane Whitehouse three seconds into Chelsea's game against Sheffield United in 1992. "I must have been too high, too wild, too strong or too early, because, after three seconds, I could hardly have been too bloody late!" remembers Vinnie fondly in his autobiography.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2000/dec/20/newsstory.sport6

[EalingGreen]

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2004/a3804.pdf

Article 6 - a child of somebody born in Northern Ireland has exactly the same entitlement to Irish nationality as somebody born in Northern Ireland. The law is very clear.No doubt under ROI law, Wickham is entitled to the same Irish Nationality as eg Darron Gibson. But the key word is "entitled" i.e. he does not (yet) have Irish nationality until he exercises that entitlement. (Gibson had it automatically since birth).

Therefore, should Wickham ever decide to exercise his entitlement, he would surely be considered by FIFA to be "acquiring a new nationality" (Article 17). And as I pointed out above, merely being in successful acquisition of a new nationality is not enough, a player needs to satisfy at least one of the four additional criteria (birthplace, ancestry, residence etc), all of which specify that the requisite connection must be with the territory of the relevant Association.




Besides, the precedent has been set with Alex Bruce.I have never seen exactly how Bruce qualified for the FAI (nor why the FAI ever wanted him, for that matter!). But in any case, FIFA's Articles on Eligibility have been amended many times since his case, so any subsequent applicant must satisfy the criteria in force at the time of the application.


edit: and Wickham will play for England so it's a moot point reallyAs the youngest player to play a full, competitive match for Ipswich, you may well be correct.

However, I had the dubious pleasure of seeing the player whose record he broke playing in a Tottenham shirt on more occasions than I care to recall. And he, too, had been touted as a "surefire England international" when he first made his breakthrough at Portman Road:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Dozzell

[Charlie Darwin]

No doubt under ROI law, Wickham is entitled to the same Irish Nationality as eg Darron Gibson. But the key word is "entitled" i.e. he does not (yet) have Irish nationality until he exercises that entitlement. (Gibson had it automatically since birth).
Ah, OK. I see what you mean. It's not entirely clear that FIFA sees it that way. The eligibility of Bruce and Magnay would suggest that FIFA has taken the common sense approach and decided that the principle that makes Gibson eligible also makes Wickham's father eligible, and therefore his son.


I have never seen exactly how Bruce qualified for the FAI (nor why the FAI ever wanted him, for that matter!). But in any case, FIFA's Articles on Eligibility have been amended many times since his case, so any subsequent applicant must satisfy the criteria in force at the time of the application.The articles have been amended but FIFA's stance on Northern-born players' eligibility has remained constant. Accepting that the FAI can unconditionally draw players from any part of the island of Ireland, it's hardly a stretch to conclude that Northern Ireland is included in the FAI's "territory."


As the youngest player to play a full, competitive match for Ipswich, you may well be correct.

However, I had the dubious pleasure of seeing the player whose record he broke playing in a Tottenham shirt on more occasions than I care to recall. And he, too, had been touted as a "surefire England international" when he first made his breakthrough at Portman Road:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_DozzellI saw Dozzell score a fantastic header to beat Wimbledon at White Hart Lane. I was devastated because Marcus Gayle was my favourite player :(

[Predator]

Ah, OK. I see what you mean. It's not entirely clear that FIFA sees it that way. The eligibility of Bruce and Magnay would suggest that FIFA has taken the common sense approach and decided that the principle that makes Gibson eligible also makes Wickham's father eligible, and therefore his son.I'm being lazy here, but was Bruce not deemed eligible under the old rules? In Magnay's case, it remains unclear as to whether he was even considering changing and therefore I think his eligibility for the FAI has not been clarified, so he may not actually be eligible.

[ifk101]

(nor why the FAI ever wanted him, for that matter!).

Who knows. It was Stan that capped him so there you go. He's still young so he might yet learn how to play the game but it's likely his legacy as an Irish international will be his coinage of the phrase "no disrespect to Northern Ireland but.......".

[Sullivinho]

"no disrespect to Northern Ireland but.......".

© Alex Bruce

™ Shane Duffy

[DannyInvincible]

However, he does not satisfy the basic eligibility test for the ROI, imposed by FIFA in Article 15, since he was not in receipt of Irish Nationality automatically from birth (as, say, Darron Gibson was).

Therefore in applying for Irish nationality, Wickham would be defined by FIFA as being someone who is making "Acquiring a new nationality" (Article 17).

But Wickham wouldn't have to apply for Irish nationality just so long as he is the son of an Irish national born on the island of Ireland: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/moving-country/irish-citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent

He is considered an automatic Irish citizen from birth. Therefore, Wickham qualifies for us under article 15. I'm sure we've covered this before.

[seanfhear]

But Wickham wouldn't have to apply for Irish nationality just so long as he is the son of an Irish national born on the island of Ireland: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/moving-country/irish-citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent

He is considered an automatic Irish citizen from birth. Therefore, Wickham qualifies for us under article 15. I'm sure we've covered this before.
I think Ealing Green may have some spare time on his hands.

Better to let he do his thang.

[sean r]

question about citizenship. i hold an irish passport through my father being born in ireland. i was born in the usa if i do have children and they are not born in eire are they infact citizens aswell? or will they have to apply via the grandfather rule because now there grandfather(my dad) was irish born. what will be my childrens status?

[John83]

It depends. Are they any good at football?

According to this (http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/moving-country/irish-citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent), they are entitled to citizenship, but you have to register their births.

[Dodge]

question about citizenship. i hold an irish passport through my father being born in ireland. i was born in the usa if i do have children and they are not born in eire are they infact citizens aswell? or will they have to apply via the grandfather rule because now there grandfather(my dad) was irish born. what will be my childrens status?

In citizenship terms, there's no such thing as the grandfather rule. That was a makey up football term.

John83's link covers wahat you need (Foreign Birth Registration)

[osarusan]

question about citizenship. i hold an irish passport through my father being born in ireland. i was born in the usa if i do have children and they are not born in eire are they infact citizens aswell? or will they have to apply via the grandfather rule because now there grandfather(my dad) was irish born. what will be my childrens status?
As John 83 said, you will have to register their births. My daugher was born in Japan but is automatically an Irish citizen due to me being born in Ireland. If she has children in the future, she'll have to register them for citizenship (if they're born outside Ireland of course). Interestingly, as long as they are registered before they themselves have children, they can also register those children as Irish citizens. It could theoretically go on generation after generation.

[gastric]

Here we go again! The same debate under a different thread. Hoops1, in relation to your comment that it is embarrassing to see players who played for other countries play for us, who is embarrassing to? This is the new world order. I have never felt embarrassed or cared when Senegal or Algeria, among others, were sucessfully competing in the WC. In fact I would say good on them for using their diaspora to ensure qualification.
We are a tiny nation supporting three football codes which is more than most European countries and we do pretty well in rugby and we are going okay in soccer. We must use our massive diaspora to help us whenever we can. I would rather we qualify for major tournaments than sit at home feeling that we somehow have stuck to our principles, whatever they might be.

[sean r]

it benefited france and holland the french can take players from the carribean and holland can get players from surinam. ruud guillet and edgar davis and jimmyfloud hassibank ect were born outside of holland. if a player is good enough he should be picked period. nocho novo can playfor scotland now he should be picked. if a player can play for us pick him end of story

[hoops1]

Well I see the Irish team and playing for the country as the greatest honour a footballer can get. Just because you play a game or two for somebodies first team,cant get a game for England or happen to qualify through some relative you never met shouldnt be enough. O Hara and Ireland for that matter have done nothing but insult the football people of this country, Kitson has said numerous times he not Irish and doesnt want to play for us, Ferdinand is 100% English, Yet people here still talk about them for the country. I could go through 3/4 of the list but havent the time or energy. Some people actually think there is more to the Irish team than picking these rejects. No pride or self respect.

[sean r]

is clinton morrison irish? or matt holland? did clinton have a come get me plea to sven? i dont like it either i know the national anthem of ireland and can speak some irish too and would give my right arm to play for eire and to see some english guy play for us who has no connection to eire does bother me but it is football and if uefa allow this rule then we shoud exploit it. i dont think a passport should be givin unless you know something abiut the country. but to win a football match we neede to pick anyone who can play for us no matter where they were born.

[hoops1]

Your missing the point fella its not an Irish, English thing. Its chasing after very average players or players who think playing for Ireland is either a joke,a hassle or a career move.

[Dodge]

As John 83 said, you will have to register their births. My daugher was born in Japan but is automatically an Irish citizen due to me being born in Ireland. If she has children in the future, she'll have to register them for citizenship (if they're born outside Ireland of course). Interestingly, as long as they are registered before they themselves have children, they can also register those children as Irish citizens. It could theoretically go on generation after generation.

Side note but Alaistiar Cragg qualifies to run for Ireland under this. Think the last person born in ireland was 4/5 generations before him.

[geysir]

I have never seen exactly how Bruce qualified for the FAI (nor why the FAI ever wanted him, for that matter!). But in any case, FIFA's Articles on Eligibility have been amended many times since his case, so any subsequent applicant must satisfy the criteria in force at the time of the application.
Was there any part of FIFA's statutes that you could see with even the slightest degree of exactement?
In any case, the eligibility criteria, that Alex Bruce qualified under, has not changed, i.e. having a parent /grandparent born in the territory of the association is still referred to as having a parent /grandparent born the territory of the association.

[gastric]

Could you elaborate on your point. Name the players who you think playing for Ireland is a joke, a hassle or career move. With the exception of Stephen Aston Villa who no one understands, I can't think of anyone who meets your so called criteria.

[Deckydee]

According to todays Star, Hogan Ephraim (like Ciaran Clarke) is set to declare.

As a QPR fan, I will tell you this, hes class!!

[SwanVsDalton]

If this happened where would you see him fitting into the squad Deckydee?

[AlaskaFox]

According to todays Star, Hogan Ephraim (like Ciaran Clarke) is set to declare.

As a QPR fan, I will tell you this, hes class!!

That the Irish or English Star? I wouldn't have too much faith in the English one.

[tetsujin1979]

That the Irish or English Star? I wouldn't have too much faith in the English one.
would you have more faith in the Irish Star?

[AlaskaFox]

would you have more faith in the Irish Star?

A small bit more, but not loads. The English one costs about 20p though, so they can hardly employ good journalists.

[irishfan86]

A small bit more, but not loads. The English one costs about 20p though, so they can hardly employ good journalists.

I wouldn't know much about their finances, but I reckon they get most of their money from advertising, not sales.

[John83]

I wouldn't know much about their finances, but I reckon they get most of their money from advertising, not sales.
The price of a newspaper rarely covers more than printing costs. Advertising is everything.

[TrapAPony]

Great to see these lads declaring. The more options we have the better.

[Charlie Darwin]

The price of a newspaper rarely covers more than printing costs. Advertising is everything.
Plus the English one sells in a country of 60 million as opposed to 5 million. And they don't pay VAT.

[elroy]

Cant say I know much about this guy, Hogan Ephraim. Anyone seen much of him play? What can of player is he?

[SkStu]

our resident QPR fan, deckydee, says he is class.

[irishfan86]

For a forward/winger his goal rate is very poor. Obviously players are more than simply their goals but 6 goals in over 100 league appearances is pretty woeful.

[AlaskaFox]

For a forward/winger his goal rate is very poor. Obviously players are more than simply their goals but 6 goals in over 100 league appearances is pretty woeful.

Could he be the Irish Heskey?

[Deckydee]

If this happened where would you see him fitting into the squad Deckydee?

He usually plays on the right side of a two player midfield, supporting the striker. Cant say where Trap could put him tbh. Warnock usually plays 4-3-2-1 and he seems to excel there.

Apparently Trap is going to the next QPR home game to have a look at him and Matt Conn olly.

Matt Connolly you'll remember was once called up but changed his mind at the last minute

[tetsujin1979]

Matt Connolly you'll remember was once called up but changed his mind at the last minute
Yeah, it was when he was at Arsenal, was called into an U19 squad, but he pulled out and then played for the England U19s a few months later

[bwagner]

Sunderland right-back Phil Bardsley has been handed his first Scotland call-up ahead of the Euro 2012 qualifier against Czech Republic.

[rebelmusic]

I don't know if i missed this but on O'Hara's wikipedia it states

"He has declared his intention to play for the Republic of Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland_national_football_team) and is waiting for the FAI to make contact."

[tetsujin1979]

I don't know if i missed this but on O'Hara's wikipedia it states

"He has declared his intention to play for the Republic of Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland_national_football_team) and is waiting for the FAI to make contact.[/URL]"
that was cited from this article published on rte.ie last May: [url]http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/0518/oharaj.html (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_O%27Hara_%28footballer%29#cite_note-20)

[boovidge]

Sunderland right-back Phil Bardsley has been handed his first Scotland call-up ahead of the Euro 2012 qualifier against Czech Republic.

I can't see the Tartan Army liking that one. His only Scottish connection is that his dad was born there on holiday

[rebelmusic]

that was cited from this article published on rte.ie last May: http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/0518/oharaj.html

Ah cited quite inaccurately then. Part of me assumed since he's obviously into himself based on his tweets that he'd keep an eye on his wiki as well.

[ifk101]

Ah cited quite inaccurately then. Part of me assumed since he's obviously into himself based on his tweets that he'd keep an eye on his wiki as well.

Interesting. Somebody with the user name JamieforIreland added that citation on wikipedia last week.

[paul_oshea]

yep...there could be more too it than meets the eye ifk

[rebelmusic]

Interesting. Somebody with the user name JamieforIreland added that citation on wikipedia last week.

Where you seeing that ifk? Just saw an ip address which i resolved to minnesota.