Rugby Union 2009

[joeSoap]

Hard for Sexton as he has to contend with Nacewa and Contepomi while Humphreys essentially has no competition. I think Sexton has more potential than Humphreys and the squad selection would suggest Kidney thinks likewise, especially if he has Paddy Wallace ahead of Humphreys for the 10 position.

Thats some load of drivel in my opinion. Sexton has to contend with an inside centre and a utility back at Leinster. Both Contepomi and Nacewa are sub-standard out-halves and both acknowledge a preference to play in other positions. Sexton has had countless chances and failed to make a big impact in any of them.

Humphreys has direct competition from Niall O'Connor and to a lesser degree Paddy Wallace.

How you can say that Sexton has more potential than Humphreys baffles me. Kidney has Wallace as back up 10 because he can cover full back, centre and out-half, giving him more options in picking a matchday 22.

[hula4]

Thats some load of drivel in my opinion. Sexton has to contend with an inside centre and a utility back at Leinster. Both Contepomi and Nacewa are sub-standard out-halves and both acknowledge a preference to play in other positions. Sexton has had countless chances and failed to make a big impact in any of them.

Humphreys has direct competition from Niall O'Connor and to a lesser degree Paddy Wallace.

How you can say that Sexton has more potential than Humphreys baffles me. Kidney has Wallace as back up 10 because he can cover full back, centre and out-half, giving him more options in picking a matchday 22.

humphreys is not as good as he is being made out to be and lacks physicality, he is a very poor defender. i was at thomond park when leicester beat munster and while he was playing at out half on attacking ball, when leicester were defending he was on the wing.

at international level you cant get away with that, also i suspect this was the same reason he was replaced at half time against harlequins last weekend as matt williams realised ulster would have very little ball playing into the storm and replaced him with a more physical 10.

there is no denying he is a fine offensive out half but he is a poorer defensive outhalf than o'gara which is saying something

[pete]

It seem very likely that Wallace will continue in his now traditional bench position. Can't see Sexton or Humphreys pushing him off that this 6 Nations season. Maybe they will e rotated in the A games?

I don't think there was a suggestion otherwise but I can see Kidney picking his strongest available team for every game.

[Bald Student]

It seem very likely that Wallace will continue in his now traditional bench position. Can't see Sexton or Humphreys pushing him off that this 6 Nations season. Maybe they will e rotated in the A games?

I don't think there was a suggestion otherwise but I can see Kidney picking his strongest available team for every game.

I'd prefer to see Wallace at 12. He's the best in the country at the moment and there'd be no need then to name any out half cover, freeing up a spot on the bench for someone who might come on.

[brianw82]

I'd prefer to see Wallace at 12. He's the best in the country at the moment and there'd be no need then to name any out half cover, freeing up a spot on the bench for someone who might come on.

I'd like to see Paddy in at 12 too, but it's likely to be Fitzgerald, despite him being all over the place position-wise this season. Maybe Deccie will surprise us?

[Bald Student]

I'd like to see Paddy in at 12 too, but it's likely to be Fitzgerald, despite him being all over the place position-wise this season. Maybe Deccie will surprise us?
The Luke's a good player but he doesn't really have the skills for 12. I like Wallace's style, he brings others into space very well. There are two basic tactics a 12 can take, try to create a hole in the defence somewhere outside him for someone else to run through or try to break the defence yourself and put someone into space behind it. Paddy plays the first tactic and D'Arcy the second. Luke doesn't really play either, he'll probably move to 13 in a few years and there's no harm in Leinster giving him game time in the centre but, unless there's an emergency, he should be on the wing or the bench for Ireland.

[swano]

Thats some load of drivel in my opinion. Sexton has to contend with an inside centre and a utility back at Leinster. Both Contepomi and Nacewa are sub-standard out-halves and both acknowledge a preference to play in other positions. Sexton has had countless chances and failed to make a big impact in any of them.

Humphreys has direct competition from Niall O'Connor and to a lesser degree Paddy Wallace.

How you can say that Sexton has more potential than Humphreys baffles me. Kidney has Wallace as back up 10 because he can cover full back, centre and out-half, giving him more options in picking a matchday 22.

Wheather Nacewa and Contepomi would prefer to play elsewhere is irrelevant. If Humphreys was at Leinster he would be in the very same position as Sexton is. Sexton was playing well early in the season before his injury and if you think he doesn't have potential I'd advise you to watch the impact he made when brought on at half time v Wasps in the RDS and tore them apart. Add to that the fact that Humphreys is 3 years older than Sexton and you may be less baffled as to why I believe Sexton has more potential. Either way it's unlikely either of them are going to get near the player O Gara has been.

Wallace is primarily in the Ireland squad to cover 10 and not other positions. Bowe/Horgan/Darcy/Fitzgerald/Kearney are all better players than Wallace and can cover centres/wing/fullback between them without the need to have Wallace in the squad.

[hula4]

Wheather Nacewa and Contepomi would prefer to play elsewhere is irrelevant. If Humphreys was at Leinster he would be in the very same position as Sexton is. Sexton was playing well early in the season before his injury and if you think he doesn't have potential I'd advise you to watch the impact he made when brought on at half time v Wasps in the RDS and tore them apart. Add to that the fact that Humphreys is 3 years older than Sexton and you may be less baffled as to why I believe Sexton has more potential. Either way it's unlikely either of them are going to get near the player O Gara has been.

Wallace is primarily in the Ireland squad to cover 10 and not other positions. Bowe/Horgan/Darcy/Fitzgerald/Kearney are all better players than Wallace and can cover centres/wing/fullback between them without the need to have Wallace in the squad.

agree 100% swano sexton i think is a better player now than humphreys albeit there is not much in the difference but sexton is certainly the far better bet for the future.

[Paddy Garcia]

Anyone know of any streams for todays games ?

[Real ale Madrid]

Heineken Cup Quarter Final line-up

Cardiff Blues v Toulouse
Munster v The Ospreys
Harlequins v Leinster
Leicester v Bath

[Aberdonian Stu]

Flights to London are booked. There were substantial cheers in the Horse Show House at full time of the Bath game. While I'm sure it's a lovely town to visit, I'd say it'll be fairly dead on Easter weekend.

[pete]

Anyone know of any streams for todays games ?

No red button on NTL but eventually found stream for Munster game.

I think its now 3 games & no tries for Leinster which has to be worrying for Ireland given a lot of those players needed & have the same backs coach.

Munster were solid today & Montaban were no push overs. O'Leary offers a good option for breaking off the back of the scrum but takes an extra touch before each pass which is an invite for the opposition to target him. The passing by the Munster backs was very slick - Ireland could really do with a Mafi.

[Real ale Madrid]

Delighted with Munster's display today. They have tended to switch off in the past when a Q-Final spot was guarenteed. Leinster have got a nice draw for themselves. They should be well capable of turning over Harlequins. i wonder will that game be switched to Twickenham?

Fair played to Connacht who have got into challenge cup quater-finals. Their squad rotation system seems to be working well enough - they are away to Northhampton who are 8th in the premiership. Not the worst draw in the world. On thier day they could beat a lot of teams. Disapointed to see Viadana miss out. It would be nice to see an Itialian team make the knockout stages but they lost 24-22 at home to Bayonne, conceeding an 78th minute try to miss out. Rugby needs more nations competing at euro level.

Rest of the challenge cup quarter finals.

London Irish v Bourgoin
Northampton v Connacht
Saracens v Newcastle
Worcester v Brive

[Macy]

Strange to see people writing off a 23 year old :rolleyes:

On the weekend, hopefully the break will do Leinster good and they will click after the 6 nations. A few years ago they would've been criticised for not battling through to get results whilst playing badly, whilst now they can front up to some degree and win a game without scoring a try.

[Youths4Ever]

Flights to London are booked. There were substantial cheers in the Horse Show House at full time of the Bath game. While I'm sure it's a lovely town to visit, I'd say it'll be fairly dead on Easter weekend.

The cheers where for the fact that Quins should be an easier team to beat than Bath. Rugby reasons not drinking ones although drinking ones are good also :D

As for the game being in Twickenham rumors yesterday that Quins want it in their home ground but not sure if it meets requirements for quarter final in respect to min attendance. If it not in Twickenham could be interesting for tickets.

[WexCar]

the semi-final draw for the heineken cup has drawn munster and leinster together(should they both win of course), with munster getting home advantage.

According to aertel due to competition rules munster may be forced to play their 'home' tie at the RDS. What rule would that be?doesn't really make sense to me .

http://www.rte.ie/aertel/206-02.html

[Bald Student]

According to aertel due to competition rules munster may be forced to play their 'home' tie at the RDS. What rule would that be?doesn't really make sense to me .The semi finals are in a neutral venue. Munster can nominate any ground in Ireland so long as it's 20,000 capacity and not Thomond. The rule have been bended in the past and probably will be again if the situation comes up.

[Youths4Ever]

The semi finals are in a neutral venue. Munster can nominate any ground in Ireland so long as it's 20,000 capacity and not Thomond. The rule have been bended in the past and probably will be again if the situation comes up.

dont think it will be RDS if need 20,000 capacity from what remember sell out in RDS is 18,500 or so but as you said rules can be bent. If Lenister keep playing as then are not very likely but there is always hope

[hula4]

its an age old argument but i really think croke park should be looked at, assuming munster get there and no matter who they play. in a "recession" the money it would generate would be massive, as has been seen in limerick on match weekends

[Aberdonian Stu]

Well if it is a Munster vs Leinster clash, or indeed even Munster vs Quins, it'll be hard to see it anywhere other than Croker. There simply isn't a non-GAA ground on the island that can cope and the GAA will only, at least in the short-term, allow Croke Park to be used for such a rental procedure. Likewise the GAA will not risk the ire of the public reaction to forcing a 'home' game for an Irish province to be moved overseas.

[Jinxy]

How would the GAA be forcing it overseas?

[Jofspring]

The GAA aren't forcing a match over to England. There's a perfectly good 26,000 capacity stadium in Limerick. ERC rules say a semi-final match must have capacity of at least 20,000 and to the best of my knowledge the Irfu will also have last say on where the match is played if it involves two Irish teams or at least the ERC will leave it to the IRFU to decide. So if they say its thomond park then its thomond park. Munster v Leinster = Thomond Park ( Bigger ground than RDS and no reason for Munster to give Leinster home advantage), Munster v Harlequins = RDS (as Quins will say Munster can't play at home). Croke Park is out of the Question i'd say, i don't like the GAA but can understand why they wouldn't open it up to Munster v Leinster, they only agreed to International Games, nothing about club matches. Trying to convince them to open up croke park could be more hassle than its worth when they have Thomond Park.

[Aberdonian Stu]

I meant to put quotation marks around forcing. The idea being that they'd be removing the sole viable option and be blamed in the public eye regardless.

Thomond won't be allowed for a semi as the ERC has become quite clear about using a pure home venue, which in the Heineken Cup it is, for semis. This will put the ball squarely in the GAA's court, albeit wholly involuntarily on the part of the GAA, and they'll allow the exception to be made as it both makes too much financial sense and would be a PR nightmare otherwise (and contrary to popular belief, there are limits to how much damaging PR the association is willing to tolerate).

[Youths4Ever]

The GAA aren't forcing a match over to England. There's a perfectly good 26,000 capacity stadium in Limerick. ERC rules say a semi-final match must have capacity of at least 20,000 and to the best of my knowledge the Irfu will also have last say on where the match is played if it involves two Irish teams or at least the ERC will leave it to the IRFU to decide. So if they say its thomond park then its thomond park. Munster v Leinster = Thomond Park ( Bigger ground than RDS and no reason for Munster to give Leinster home advantage), Munster v Harlequins = RDS (as Quins will say Munster can't play at home). Croke Park is out of the Question i'd say, i don't like the GAA but can understand why they wouldn't open it up to Munster v Leinster, they only agreed to International Games, nothing about club matches. Trying to convince them to open up croke park could be more hassle than its worth when they have Thomond Park.

the game cannot be in Thomond as Stu said the ERC are quiet clear on that is home country advantage for the semi final with venue selected by ERC.

Hopefully the IRFU will have some say but doubt the ERC will back down allow Munster to play in Thomond.

Hopefully the IRFU can see the possible problem and start talks with the GAA about the usage of Croke Park for the semi final if munster get through as if then do then get home country advantage no matter who then play

[brianw82]

Are people not just slightly jumping the gun over this issue?

Both teams have to win their QFs first!

[Dodge]

Are people not just slightly jumping the gun over this issue?

Both teams have to win their QFs first!

Absolutely. Most will remember the great leinster v Munster final planned for lansdowne some years ago

[Youths4Ever]

Are people not just slightly jumping the gun over this issue?

Both teams have to win their QFs first!

Maybe some are slightly junping the gun on the fact that it will be a Munster Lenister semi final but if Munster win and Lenister lose their quarter final Munster still have home country advantage and no venue.

I am aware an "if" then win QF final scenaro still there but Munster have a very good chance of winning the QF.

[Youths4Ever]

Just read elsewhere that Munster nominated RDS as there neutral venue at start of year. Also that the capacity of RDS can be expanded to meet the attendance requirements so Munster would probably play their semi final in RDS if then beat Osperys no matter who their opposition in the semi final

[jbyrne]

Croke Park is out of the Question i'd say, i don't like the GAA but can understand why they wouldn't open it up to Munster v Leinster, they only agreed to International Games, nothing about club matches. Trying to convince them to open up croke park could be more hassle than its worth when they have Thomond Park.

there is no mention of international games only. GAA central council has been given the power to decide on the stadiums use. if its an all-ireland semi it will be in croke park. money would be too good to turn down in present circumstances

[pete]

I think ye all jumping the gun a bit as it assumes Leinster will win.

Would the GAA turn down E1m for that potential match?

I remember the Leinster-Munster semi final a while back at Lansdowne & was one of the best rugby games I have been at.

[Jinxy]

I think it will be made available for the semi-final if the IRFU ask for it to be honest, but I don't think it would be a PR disaster if the GAA refused. People have way more important things to be worrying about at the moment.

[WexCar]

assuming leinster and munster do win, the RDS would be too small for the ticket demand, therefore look to the GAA

If using a GAA ground would it not be better for Munster to use the Gaelic Grounds in Limerick so that the game is kept in Munster and with a slightly smaller attendance (50,000 capacity i think) there would be a greater ratio of munster to leinster fans.

[Aberdonian Stu]

Well in fairness on the jumping the gun issue, I did qualify it with an if.

As for the stadium thing. There's a GAA rules logistics issue with grounds other than Croker. The motion they passed a couple of years ago referred specificially to that ground. So long as it's there and nowhere else this problem won't be that much of an issue.

[hula4]

assuming leinster and munster do win, the RDS would be too small for the ticket demand, therefore look to the GAA

If using a GAA ground would it not be better for Munster to use the Gaelic Grounds in Limerick so that the game is kept in Munster and with a slightly smaller attendance (50,000 capacity i think) there would be a greater ratio of munster to leinster fans.


The gaa have only opened croke park, the relaxing in their rules states that croke park is available while lansdowne road is being rebuilt so the Gaelic grounds is out as it any other GAA stadium in the country.

its not jumping the gun in relation to talking about this as if Croker were to be used the GAA would have to be approached post haste.

i personally think if the GAA are approached by the ERC/IRFU they should say yes, in a recessionary economy the money it would generate would be great for the country as well as the feel good factor for the whole country that weekend.

i also think should Munster qualify for the semi final regardless of who they are down to play it should be on in Croker

[tetsujin1979]

Absolutely. Most will remember the great leinster v Munster final planned for lansdowne some years ago
they couldn't give away tickets that years. touts lost fortunes. 2fm had daily competitions for final tickets.
I'm sure there were some bad things too....

[joeSoap]

Please stick to the soccer related threads then, as you are a Soccer Fan. The title of the thread is 'Rugby Union 2009' and therefore should have sent some alarm bells ringing in your mind as to what was being discussed in this thread.

I'm sure you're one of those 'morons' (your phrase, not mine) that run around in your Pike Rovers jacket or jumper, as is your right. What people choose to wear and support is down to themselves, and shouldn't affect you in any way.

Stick to the soccer.

There, end of rant.

[Schumi]

they couldn't give away tickets that years.They didn't try very hard. I was going to go to that final but the cheapest tickets were something like €50 on the day. Daft given the lack of interest in the participants.

[Dodge]

It showed to me the true level of support for rugby in Ireland.

[joeSoap]

I would agree with you in some respects, but you have to take into account the cost of the day itself. Lets say you were travelling from Limerick; train €40, match ticket €50, food and other expenses €20, a few pints €30. Thats an expensive enough day out just to watch two french teams that you wouldn't normally support.

Those prices are based on a few years ago btw...

[Dodge]

I know, but if it was the Champions League final, it'd have been packed to the rafters, regardless of who was playing and there'd have been thousands looking for tickets too

[Bald Student]

Where as if it was an FAI cup final it would have had about the attendance that the final of the 'ken did.

For whatever reason, Irish people support domestic rugby and foreign soccer.

[Dodge]

Or people jump from bandwagon to bandwagon

[Pike B]

Or people jump from bandwagon to bandwagon
Exactly.. :D

[kingdom hoop]

Yes people follow success so I agree to an extent, but in this example maybe it's worth appreciating the context a little more, in that the teams of the majority of rugby followers in the country, ie Munster and Leinster, were both knocked out in the semis that year. Personally, knowing what could/should have been and having seen plenty rugby that year, I wasn't really of a mind to go watch the final of a competition when my team was eliminated in the semi. Had it been the pool stages when Munster and Leinster were knocked out I think you'd have got more Irish going as the hunger would've been back.

Would you go to the marriage of your hoped-for wife to the **** who beat you to her hand just because you support love in all its forms? :p

Seriously though, I don't think anyone would claim rugby penetrates Ireland in the numbers football does. As well as that, in general the Irish public get a more regular supply of high level rugby compared to football so there'll never be as much demand for those "one-off" rugby matches.

[Dodge]

Seriously though, I don't think anyone would claim rugby penetrates Ireland in the numbers football does.

Some media have made that exact claim.

I should point out that I'm not anti rugby and regularly attend Leinster games. From being one of about 2-3,000 as little as 4-5 years ago attending Magners League games I know exactly how fickle support is

[pete]

Or people jump from bandwagon to bandwagon

Munster is the best Bandwagon in town especially the HC finals. :cool:

[Bald Student]

I should point out that I'm not anti rugby and regularly attend Leinster games. From being one of about 2-3,000 as little as 4-5 years ago attending Magners League games I know exactly how fickle support isI don't think that support is as fickle as some make out. The support of the provincial sides has increased but most of the 18,000 at the Edinburgh game would also be involved in schools or club rugby in some form or other.

I don't have any numbers but I'd guess that Magner's' League might be the second best supported rugby competition in Leinster.

[hula4]

Munster is the best Bandwagon in town especially the HC finals. :cool:

well to be fair its a bandwagon that has been running for 11 years and massive crowds have travelled to england, wales, switzerland, spain, france, italy etc, so to be fair i think the bandwagon description is out the window

[Pike B]

well to be fair its a bandwagon that has been running for 11 years and massive crowds have travelled to england, wales, switzerland, spain, france, italy etc, so to be fair i think the bandwagon description is out the window
No offense Hula, but the bandwagon is very much alive and well in Limerick. It's all well and good people supporting them and becoming fans, but I bet you 70% of Munster fans couldn't name the squad of players, or tell you diddly squat about the history, besides beating the All Blacks etc.

At Thomond Park one evening a friend of mine was watching as O'Gara put over a penalty. He was alone as his Uncle and brother (Munster fans all their lives) couldn't get a ticket. A woman 2 seats away asked her husband 'how many points would they get if it went under the post'??

Need I say more??

[Dodge]

I don't think that support is as fickle as some make out. The support of the provincial sides has increased but most of the 18,000 at the Edinburgh game would also be involved in schools or club rugby in some form or other.


Fair enough on the schools scene but even that is a bit of a strange one. From my (limited) knowledge as many people go for the social side as go for the game (I realise they can't really be seperated). I'd imagine that most who watch leinster play would definitely have been involved at school level.

The club scene has never got crowds (certainly in Dublin). Even before the heineken cup era, the Ail was on its knees