Rugby Union 2009

[The Fly]

Reports in the weekend papers suggest that RTE and TG4 will secure the rights to show the Magners League in a 4 year deal to begin next season. Good news for me - bringing the provinces to a wider audience and all........also surely Setanta is now on it's last legs.
Any thoughts?

[Acornvilla]

Reports in the weekend papers suggest that RTE and TG4 will secure the rights to show the Magners League in a 4 year deal to begin next season. Good news for me - bringing the provinces to a wider audience and all........also surely Setanta is now on it's last legs.
Any thoughts? if they loose that people have no real reason to buy it anymore? it would be sad to see it go thou

[Macy]

Reports in the weekend papers suggest that RTE and TG4 will secure the rights to show the Magners League in a 4 year deal to begin next season. Good news for me - bringing the provinces to a wider audience and all........also surely Setanta is now on it's last legs.
Any thoughts?
Excellent news (even if many of the games are already available free via BBC2 Wales and S4C (with English commentary via the red button)). What happened with the Scottish deal, which setanta also had.

Edit - STV has a highlights show for scotland, plus the two derbies live

[Mr A]

Feck that, Ulster and Connacht can forget about coverage if RTE are in charge.

[Jofspring]

Alot of people saying with RTE showing it the amount of coverage is to seriously decrease. They are only going to show 1 match a weekend supposedly with maybe a highlights package too. Setanta currently shows around 4 matches (if not more) a weekend plus a highlights program. If you don't have BBC Wales/Scotland or S4C you won't have alot of Magners league to watch.

[MariborKev]

Feck that, Ulster and Connacht can forget about coverage if RTE are in charge.

Sure the Setanta coverage is myopic towards Leinster and Munster already.

Munster v Ulster a few weeks ago, Donal Lenihan was on punditry. His comments about Ulster were few and far between and it felt like an Irish team playing a foreign side(insert appropriate joke here).

[Aberdonian Stu]

But at least you'd be able to watch Ulster games in that instance. I've heard that TG4 might be sharing the rights. If that's the case there'd likely be two games live per weekend.

[OneRedArmy]

No posts on yesterdays game?

Poor enough performance for 60 minutes, but really focused for the last 10-15when they had to.

Its been said for at least 2 years than if Hayes goes we are in serious trouble and yesterday did nothing to dispell that. We were embarrassed in the scrum by what is generally accepted to be the worst scrummaging nation out of the 6/tri nations. God help us if we don't improve drastically before the Boks. Healy can only improve with more game time, hopefully he gets another 80mins on Saturday. Another game will benefit Hayes and Flannery as they were understandably rusty.

I thought O'Gara answered his critics fairly soundly, good line kicking and reasonable territorial stuff.

Our rucking was very poor, body angles too high and no aggression. Add in Kaplan's usual pedantry and the result was that Pocock and Palau dominated the breakdown. Heaslip and Ferris are barnstormers in the loose but are going to have to learn to get stuck in quicker rather than loitering in midfield.

Before Fitz got injured I'd have liked to see him or Earls play at 12 against Fiji. Wallace has good hands and a clever brain but he doesn't break the gain line enough and doesn't free up enough space for O'Driscoll.

[Macy]

But at least you'd be able to watch Ulster games in that instance. I've heard that TG4 might be sharing the rights. If that's the case there'd likely be two games live per weekend.
That'd be similar to the BBC Wales/ S4C arrangement, although S4C usually have another 2 games. Personally, I'd say it'll be the scottish clubs that miss out rather than Ulster or Connacht - Irish v Welsh games will get priority as the TV companies will be able to pool resources.

[endabob1]

No posts on yesterdays game?

Poor enough performance for 60 minutes, but really focused for the last 10-15when they had to.

Its been said for at least 2 years than if Hayes goes we are in serious trouble and yesterday did nothing to dispell that. We were embarrassed in the scrum by what is generally accepted to be the worst scrummaging nation out of the 6/tri nations. God help us if we don't improve drastically before the Boks. Healy can only improve with more game time, hopefully he gets another 80mins on Saturday. Another game will benefit Hayes and Flannery as they were understandably rusty.

I thought O'Gara answered his critics fairly soundly, good line kicking and reasonable territorial stuff.

Our rucking was very poor, body angles too high and no aggression. Add in Kaplan's usual pedantry and the result was that Pocock and Palau dominated the breakdown. Heaslip and Ferris are barnstormers in the loose but are going to have to learn to get stuck in quicker rather than loitering in midfield.

Before Fitz got injured I'd have liked to see him or Earls play at 12 against Fiji. Wallace has good hands and a clever brain but he doesn't break the gain line enough and doesn't free up enough space for O'Driscoll.

Good analysis there ORA, but Australia have bulked up their front row considerably, their taking note of what's required & I thought/think Kaplan never has a clue about how to ref the scrum, there was a lot of shenanigans going on. Cian Healy needs game time at this level, it's the only way he'll learn, we need to start blooding younger lads in the front row or we'll be buried by everyone in the next world cup, we were poor enough in this area in the last one.

Having seen Earls out here in the Lions series I think he has a huge future but again we need get him game time at this level

[joeSoap]

Its been said for at least 2 years than if Hayes goes we are in serious trouble and yesterday did nothing to dispell that. We were embarrassed in the scrum by what is generally accepted to be the worst scrummaging nation out of the 6/tri nations. God help us if we don't improve drastically before the Boks. Healy can only improve with more game time, hopefully he gets another 80mins on Saturday. Another game will benefit Hayes and Flannery as they were understandably rusty.. Agree with this, but Australia have improved upon this area dramatically over the past 6 months. Also in that time period they have played 13 games together as a unit...we played none.



I thought O'Gara answered his critics fairly soundly, good line kicking and reasonable territorial stuff. .. Agreed again, and he was quite strong going into contact. Howler of a pass to O'Driscoll for the opening try but re-gathered himself pretty well thereafter, considering the quality of some of the ball he got.


Our rucking was very poor, body angles too high and no aggression. Add in Kaplan's usual pedantry and the result was that Pocock and Palau dominated the breakdown. Heaslip and Ferris are barnstormers in the loose but are going to have to learn to get stuck in quicker rather than loitering in midfield. .. I can't help but feel that Heaslip is way too arrogant at times...his one handed ball carrying, and his liking to stand off at the base rather that get stuck in worries me. I do like Ferris' agression though and disagree with you in saying he spends too much time in midfield.



Before Fitz got injured I'd have liked to see him or Earls play at 12 against Fiji. Wallace has good hands and a clever brain but he doesn't break the gain line enough and doesn't free up enough space for O'Driscoll. Cant agree with this. I was never a Paddy Wallace fan, until Sunday. His line breaks were good, tackling was immense and he provided excellent out-half cover when needed. His best game for Ireland by a mile. He didn't break the line enough primarily because he's an inside centre and our game plan doesn't really suit agressive running from inside channels.

Earls would be wasted an an inside centre simply because it would not allow him to use his electric pace. I see Earls definitely now our left wing for the 6 nations given Fitzgeralds unlucky injury.

The team for Fiji is along expected lines, only issue I have with it is Shane Horgans selection. I know he's playing really well, but at 31 is coming to the end of his career because he won't be getting in ahead of the likes of Earls, Fitzgerald, Bowe etc, and up and coming talent like Darren Cave would be more worthy of a shout on this occasion I feel. Same with Leamy getting the nod ahead of Sean O'Brien.

[The Fly]

Anyone watch the match against Fiji?

Jonathan Sexton was exceptional - finally O'Gara has real competition. Sexton ran with the ball more in one game, than O'Gara has for the past few years. Admittedly, he was playing against Fiji, whilst ROG was playing against Australia and did well, but still.....
I'd start him against South Africa, though Kidney will probably keep O'Gara at 10, but - come the 6nations, a changing of the guard is due!

[OneRedArmy]

The IRB are going to kill the game if they don't help the Fiji's and the Romania's of this world. Fiji were a massive team physically but they played like they'd never seen each other, which, before last weekend, they pretty much hadn't.

We really didn't learn much from yesterday, although a good boost of confidence for Sexton.

I would start him next weekend. He needs game time against the big countries and at this stage we know what O'Gara can and can't do.

Our front row is almost giving me sleepless nights, I really fear for them next weekend. Depending on how strict the referee is we could be absolutely mullered in the scrum.

[The Fly]

Our front row is almost giving me sleepless nights, I really fear for them next weekend. Depending on how strict the referee is we could be absolutely mullered in the scrum.

I know what you mean about the front row. If we had some depth there, and quality depth at that, I'm convinced that we would/could win the World Cup.

[joeSoap]

Just got a call from somebody in the know who tells me that ROG has been left out for Sexton, and Stringer is back on the bench for Reddan....

[OneRedArmy]

Just got a call from somebody in the know who tells me that ROG has been left out for Sexton, and Stringer is back on the bench for Reddan....http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2009/1124/ireland.html

Ireland team to play South Africa on Saturday at Croke Park, kick-off 2.30pm:

R Kearney (Leinster); T Bowe (Ospreys), B O'Driscoll (capt) (Leinster), P Wallace (Ulster), K Earls (Munster); J Sexton (Leinster), T O'Leary (Munster); C Healy (Leinster), J Flannery (Munster), J Hayes (Munster); D O'Callaghan (Munster), P O'Connell (Munster), S Ferris (Ulster), D Wallace (Munster), J Heaslip (Leinster).

Replacements: S Cronin (Connacht), T Buckley (Munster), L Cullen (Leinster), D Leamy (Munster), P Stringer (Munster), R O'Gara (Munster), G D'Arcy (Leinster).


Good side, the front row remains my main worry. Sat will be a big test, if we are as good as we think we are, we need to win it.

[Leeside Swagger]

Suprised by that, thought ROG had done more done enough with his performance against Australia.
Although I think the decision to play Sexton will probably cost us the match, it will be good for his development. Fair play to Kidney, EOS wouldn't have made that change in a million years.

[OneRedArmy]

Suprised by that, thought ROG had done more done enough with his performance against Australia.
Although I think the decision to play Sexton will probably cost us the match, it will be good for his development. Fair play to Kidney, EOS wouldn't have made that change in a million years.How will he lose the match,Place kicking/positional kicking/passing/tackling/ball in hand?

From my perspective he's demonstrated he's measurably better than O'Gara at the last three. O'Gara is a soft tackler and the Saffies absolutely love running down his channel. The first two areas of the game (placekicking and positional kicking) are the ones that tend to crack under the pressure. I think Sexton's up to it, Saturday will be a huge test, but the potential benefits outweigh the negatives IMO

[endabob1]

Very surprised that ROG has lost out but to be fair Sexton did incredibly well on Saturday and when he came on in the HC Semi Last year he was calmness personified. That said the Boks back row will target him early, A massive step up for him but from what I have seen and heard of him he has the game.

[Leeside Swagger]

How will he lose the match,Place kicking/positional kicking/passing/tackling/ball in hand?

From my perspective he's demonstrated he's measurably better than O'Gara at the last three. O'Gara is a soft tackler and the Saffies absolutely love running down his channel. The first two areas of the game (placekicking and positional kicking) are the ones that tend to crack under the pressure. I think Sexton's up to it, Saturday will be a huge test, but the potential benefits outweigh the negatives IMO

Lack of experience at this level. Its not really possible to compare him to ROG at this stage, he's only had one international and a handfull of HC games. Granted he does look like a good player alright but he hasnt been tested at this level.

He will be our outhalf at the world cup im sure, so its important he gets experience of these big matches, its a calculated risk by Kidney and i just dont think we will win on saturday. I do hope im wrong though.

[OneRedArmy]

Lack of experience at this level. Its not really possible to compare him to ROG at this stage, he's only had one international and a handfull of HC games. Granted he does look like a good player alright but he hasnt been tested at this level.

He will be our outhalf at the world cup im sure, so its important he gets experience of these big matches, its a calculated risk by Kidney and i just dont think we will win on saturday. I do hope im wrong though.I was asking specifically what part of his game you feel will let him down?

[centre mid]

Boks are missing quite a few, from what I can gather: Botha, Du Preez, Buger & Du Plessis are all doubtful. The Springboks front row is overated, they destroyed the Lions but the Lions front row was crap. I dont see any reason why Ireland shouldnt win this.

[Real ale Madrid]

I think its a great decision - will give RO'G a boot in the @rse at the very least - one which he himself would even say is long overdue. I hope Sexton plays well - he showed last season in the HC semi that he was comfortable in the surrondings and I think its a great idea to start him against a really good team who look half knackered after a really long season. If we can get on the front foot up front then he has every chance of enjoying a good game. Kidney was never afraid to throw in young lads over the years with Munster and more often than not he has been a good judge - hope this continues at international level.

Its about time we started trying the odd thing during these Autumn international games - we beat both Australia and South Africa a few years ago and where did it really get us?

[Leeside Swagger]

I was asking specifically what part of his game you feel will let him down?

Do you not think experience is important? Theres no one area of his game that will "let him down" as you say, its not that simple.

[centre mid]

Do you not think experience is important? Theres no one area of his game that will "let him down" as you say, its not that simple.

If it was the first game of the 6N then experience might be a factor in Kidneys decision

[OneRedArmy]

Do you not think experience is important? Theres no one area of his game that will "let him down" as you say, its not that simple.
I think experience is overrated. Otherwise you'd never change a team. Sexton is talked of like a young lad, when in actual fact he's 24.

In terms of the South Africa game, I'd be surprised if Sexton turns out as being the reason we lose. I would see our front row and competing at the breakdown as much bigger worries tbh. As long as we get parity in these areas and he isn't stuck with poor quality back foot ball I think he'll be fine.

[Leeside Swagger]

If it was the first game of the 6N then experience might be a factor in Kidneys decision

Kidney has said that he has picked him to see how he responds ie. to gain the experience of a big test match. Shrewd move by Kidney and it will stand to us in the future im sure.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Boks are missing quite a few, from what I can gather: Botha, Du Preez, Buger & Du Plessis are all doubtful. The Springboks front row is overated, they destroyed the Lions but the Lions front row was crap. I dont see any reason why Ireland shouldnt win this.
Lions front row > Ireland front row? Doesn't make sense to me. Flannery would have more than likely been in there but don't think his addition would improve the scrum by as much you are making out.

[joeSoap]

Sexton plays because we have a fantastic coach that looks beyond the next game, and is targetting the next World Cup. He is the next in line and deserves his chance, pure and simple. This is not a case of O'Gara being dropped. It's a case of experimentation. We are no longer dealing with Eddie O'Sullivan or Warren Gatland, who's ambition lay strictly with winning the next game no matter what. So what if we lose on Saturday. So what if Sexton fcuks up. He gains invaluable experience playing against the best team in the world in a pressure cooker environment. It will prepare him for cauldrons like Twickenham and the Stade de France for the 6 Nations should Kidney want to pick him. So far, he has done everything asked of him, and a little more. I have no fears for his ability on Saturday. My only concern is that he can be a little petulant when things aren't going his way (his stamping on Mafi's face in Thomond Park a couple of seasons ago springs to mind), but hopefully he has grown out of that and give us the option of two world class out-halves to choose from in major competition.

I can see us winning this one, but my main worries lie in the usual areas. The front row will take another hiding...thats for sure so we must limit basic errors that concede scrums. Their lineout is the best in the world bar none. Again, keeping the ball alive when we are in possession as much as possible is imperative. Heaslip for me is a worry. Defensively he has to step up to the plate and get involved a lot more in the tight. That said, I'm confident that we can secure enough quality first phase possession to keep the Boks pinned back, where they will concede penalties. They don't like pressure and it tends to rattle them. France did it to them expertly a couple of weeks ago, and a similar game plan can undo them.

Incidentally, Paddy Power offers 3/1 on Sexton scoring 15 points or more. I'm having a cut off that...:cool:

[De Town]

Incidentally, Paddy Power offers 3/1 on Sexton scoring 15 points or more. I'm having a cut off that...:cool:

Saw that, good price alright.

[endabob1]

The Boks front row is in disaray & far from it being over-rated it's their main area of concern, presumably because for years its been their strenght. That said they were strong against Italy in the scrums and I think we'll do well to get parity.

http://www.sarugby.net/newsarticle.aspx?newsid=324678&leagueid=&fixturescatid=&resultscatid=&vidcatid=&piccat=&statscatid=&statsteam=&newscat=

From what's available it's as strong a side as they could put out it won't be easy....

[tricky_colour]

That was a great kick by Sexton to take the lead, tonnes of pressure but he looked as cool as a cucumber.

[passinginterest]

Great to see that team go unbeaten for the year. They play like they believe they're better than any side and that's all too rare in Irish sports teams, I wouldn't bet against another grand slam.

[OneRedArmy]

Great performance. Too monkeyed to do it justice. More tomorrow.

[juniorballer]

Sexton plays because we have a fantastic coach that looks beyond the next game, and is targetting the next World Cup. He is the next in line and deserves his chance, pure and simple. This is not a case of O'Gara being dropped. It's a case of experimentation. We are no longer dealing with Eddie O'Sullivan or Warren Gatland, who's ambition lay strictly with winning the next game no matter what. So what if we lose on Saturday. So what if Sexton fcuks up. He gains invaluable experience playing against the best team in the world in a pressure cooker environment. It will prepare him for cauldrons like Twickenham and the Stade de France for the 6 Nations should Kidney want to pick him. So far, he has done everything asked of him, and a little more. I have no fears for his ability on Saturday. My only concern is that he can be a little petulant when things aren't going his way (his stamping on Mafi's face in Thomond Park a couple of seasons ago springs to mind), but hopefully he has grown out of that and give us the option of two world class out-halves to choose from in major competition.

I can see us winning this one, but my main worries lie in the usual areas. The front row will take another hiding...thats for sure so we must limit basic errors that concede scrums. Their lineout is the best in the world bar none. Again, keeping the ball alive when we are in possession as much as possible is imperative. Heaslip for me is a worry. Defensively he has to step up to the plate and get involved a lot more in the tight. That said, I'm confident that we can secure enough quality first phase possession to keep the Boks pinned back, where they will concede penalties. They don't like pressure and it tends to rattle them. France did it to them expertly a couple of weeks ago, and a similar game plan can undo them.

Incidentally, Paddy Power offers 3/1 on Sexton scoring 15 points or more. I'm having a cut off that...:cool:

Wow joesoap...you should become a pundit. EXCELLENT PREVIEW, AND SPOT ON PREDICTIONS!!

[ken foree]

well if steyn had've hit those penalties it would've been quite different. pretty even game overall with ireland very good at line-out and attacking the rucks (essential when facing a player like brussow).

[kellco88]

Anyone else here the story that Matfield heard O'Connell counting in Afrikaans?
http://www.sport24.co.za/Content/Rugby/BoksOnTour/3474/178e73d399754b839652dd524478a1b0/29-11-2009-10-00/The_Irish_counted_in_Afrikaans

[Real ale Madrid]

[QUOTE=ken foree;1285492]well if steyn had've hit those penalties it would've been quite different. QUOTE]

And if my Aunt had :ball::ball: 's she'd be my uncle.

Ireland missed 2 kickable penalties also and Tommy Bowe was almost de-capitated in front of the posts - on another day Ireland could easily have had 24 points.

Id be sceptical that we could beat them come world cup time but take nothing away from Saturday's performance - we are a few front row players from having a good chance in 2011. Next years tests in the Southern Hemisphere will be the genuine yardstick on how far we have progressed.

[ken foree]

[QUOTE=ken foree;1285492]well if steyn had've hit those penalties it would've been quite different. QUOTE]

And if my Aunt had :ball::ball: 's she'd be my uncle.

Ireland missed 2 kickable penalties also and Tyrone Howe was almost de-capitated in front of the posts - on another day Ireland could easily have had 24 points.

Id be sceptical that we could beat them come world cup time but take nothing away from Saturday's performance - we are a few front row players from having a good chance in 2011. Next years tests in the Southern Hemisphere will be the genuine yardstick on how far we have progressed.

we scraped it and were (as much as i've seen lately) near our attacking best, running from deep and quick to the breakdown. boks were tired after a long season, showed in their recent tour defeats, and normally steyn would be aceing those kicks. we tripped over the line in cardiff, i just don't think that kind of 'luck' (or whatever word you choose to use, that which makes other teams miss an unusually high number of penalties/chances) can hold, and 2 out of 3 of the big s. hemisphere teams would likely beat us in the w. cup (kiwis/boks).

[drummerboy]

[QUOTE=ken foree;1285492]well if steyn had've hit those penalties it would've been quite different. QUOTE]

And if my Aunt had :ball::ball: 's she'd be my uncle.

Ireland missed 2 kickable penalties also and Tyrone Howe was almost de-capitated in front of the posts - on another day Ireland could easily have had 24 points.

Id be sceptical that we could beat them come world cup time but take nothing away from Saturday's performance - we are a few front row players from having a good chance in 2011. Next years tests in the Southern Hemisphere will be the genuine yardstick on how far we have progressed.

Think you'll find it was Tommy Bowe

[paul_oshea]

If we dont peak too early(NZ before last world cup) and can replace john hayes, i think we can at least get to the semis, and if all goes to plan win the world cup.

[Real ale Madrid]

[QUOTE=Real ale Madrid;1285893]

we scraped it and were (as much as i've seen lately) near our attacking best, running from deep and quick to the breakdown. boks were tired after a long season, showed in their recent tour defeats, and normally steyn would be aceing those kicks. we tripped over the line in cardiff, i just don't think that kind of 'luck' (or whatever word you choose to use, that which makes other teams miss an unusually high number of penalties/chances) can hold, and 2 out of 3 of the big s. hemisphere teams would likely beat us in the w. cup (kiwis/boks).

I agree with you re. the world cup as it stands today - but your assertion that we are always lucky to be winning is incorrect in my opinion. We went through the entire year unbeaten - luck will only get you so far. Both sides missed kicks on Saturday - you can just as easily say Sexton should have got his penalties if you are going to use that argument for Steyn.

The test for this team now is beat the same teams on the road in Paris, Australia and NZ over the next 12 months.....

[ken foree]

[QUOTE=ken foree;1285948]

I agree with you re. the world cup as it stands today - but your assertion that we are always lucky to be winning is incorrect in my opinion. We went through the entire year unbeaten - luck will only get you so far. Both sides missed kicks on Saturday - you can just as easily say Sexton should have got his penalties if you are going to use that argument for Steyn.

The test for this team now is beat the same teams on the road in Paris, Australia and NZ over the next 12 months.....

my turn to agree with you - we are definitely a quality side and very difficult to beat, luck didn't win us the six nations. i just feel that if we gave away those penos on another day, we would've been routed. conversely i never get the sense that we are able to trounce a top team, even on our "best day", know what i mean?

[OneRedArmy]

Think you'll find it was Tommy BoweOnce you've seen one token Nordie you've seen them all ;)

[Macy]

Anyone else here the story that Matfield heard O'Connell counting in Afrikaans?
http://www.sport24.co.za/Content/Rugby/BoksOnTour/3474/178e73d399754b839652dd524478a1b0/29-11-2009-10-00/The_Irish_counted_in_Afrikaans
I heard it flagged before the game that South Africa hadn't changed their lineout calls for a while (on newstalk I think) - I guess Ireland just second guessed the obvious way for them to get around that.


If we dont peak too early(NZ before last world cup) and can replace john hayes, i think we can at least get to the semis, and if all goes to plan win the world cup.
All going well, a reasonable replacement/sub should be good enough for the next world cup (hopefully someone to come through for the future).

[Mr A]

Very good display from Ulster especially without Botha or Wallace, Humphreys was very good both in terms of kicks and opening up the Stade defence. Ulster may well have cause to regret not securing the bonus point though because for a while it really looked to be on as Stade were playing so poorly.

[dantheman]

Good weekend for the Irish provinces:

-Good deserved win by Ulster
-Likewise for Connacht
-BP win for Leinster (against an awful Scarlets)
-Lucky win for Munster, but to win when you play badly is always a good sign

[bennocelt]

Good weekend for the Irish provinces:

-Good deserved win by Ulster
-Likewise for Connacht
-BP win for Leinster (against an awful Scarlets)
-Lucky win for Munster, but to win when you play badly is always a good sign

Wonder what odds that was in the bookies?

[joeSoap]

Wonder what odds that was in the bookies?

It paid around 9/1 I think. A friend of mine did it. Connacht let me down, had the other three

[paul_oshea]

you bet against them you?! you bastid!