The 2nd place qualifying table

**geysir** · 19/04/2009, 1:07 AM

Originally Posted by Gather round

Who claimed they did? I was suggesting that TV markets and likely fan following to a tournament, were just as likely justifications as World ranking for rigging the draw. Not that I agree with the other conspiracy theorists on here who think it was rigged.

I don't know what the feck you are waffling on about.
Deal with facts as they were represented by us and less of your silly juvenile jibes.

If you dispute the facts as we present them then find something of substance from the facts of the matter to argue against what we report.
Simply put your argument (if you even have an argument) is that despite UEFA saying they would first have a seeded draw, then saying they would not have a seeded draw, then producing the results of the "draw", you are claiming that it was a pure 270/1 coincidence that their wished for play off pairings materialised.

If that's it, then fine.

**Stuttgart88** · 19/04/2009, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

That's how I recall the news reports at the time. It's enough for me that Stutts agrees I am not mad. Check it out for yourself if you really want to.

That's my totally clear recollection too.

Gather Round, I thought it clearly at the time and the memory has stuck in my mind like a lot of things over the years from following the BIG. I've no reason whatsoever to make it up.

I've no idea whether it was based on rankings or not, but it was 100% obvious that the 4 teams UEFA wanted in the finals were kept apart and drawn away from home first in the draw. There was broad consensus in the media who the 4 "seeds" would be.

**Stuttgart88** · 19/04/2009, 3:11 PM

Check this article out

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_n14279130/

It doesn't mention who the 4 "seeds" might have been but it clearly hints that there was a movement towards having a seeded draw which was shot down under protest. This at least backs up part of the assertion.

GR may continue to have his doubts but as soon as the actual draw was made I was astonished that the 4 mooted seeds were separated and drawn away first. 270-1 or whatever it was, as Geysir says.

**Stuttgart88** · 19/04/2009, 3:19 PM

This article strongly suggests England, Ukraine and Turkey would be UEFA's seeds and it draws clear reference to the suspicion that UEFA would prefer the biggest TV audiences to be represented, so presumably Denmark would be 4th.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/1...wsstory.sport3

**NeilMcD** · 19/04/2009, 3:46 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

lads have an awful feeling we are going to meet slovenia :exclamation:

Why would it be awful to meet slovenia.

**Gather round** · 19/04/2009, 6:21 PM

Apologies for the snide and wind-up in my late-night post yesterday. Shouldn't post after the pub...thanks also for the links to contemporary press articles at the time.

Geysir, I wasn't doubting the bald facts as you described them, rather asking for more detail before deciding whether I agreed with your conclusion drawn from them. Clearly UEFA self-contradicted and were even more shifty than usual, but as Glenn Moore said in one of the linked articles, it wasn't 100% certain (or even 99.7%, 1-270) which criteria which would be used to identify the seeds (current World ranking, TV watching population, affluence, travelling support or whatever). Denmark were a relatively recent champion, but on at least one of those three criteria they wouldn't have been clearly ahead of Scotland, Israel or the Republic of Ireland.

**Stuttgart88** · 19/04/2009, 6:25 PM

I can't prove it, but trust me GR, the 4 mooted seeds were definitely those drawn apart, and away first. It wasn't just the print media suggesting those 4, it was the TV and mainly the radio. Unfortunately soccercentral.ie or foot.ie probably weren't around then to check the archives!

**Gather round** · 19/04/2009, 6:34 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I can't prove it, but trust me GR, the 4 mooted seeds were definitely those drawn apart, and away first. It wasn't just the print media suggesting those 4, it was the TV and mainly the radio. Unfortunately soccercentral.ie or foot.ie probably weren't around then to check the archives!

Stuttgart- I'm happy to accept beyond reasonable doubt that UEFA were corrupt in 2000.

Wouldn't they save themselves an embarrassing problem in future tournaments, simply by putting a seeding for the play-off based on ranking position, into the tournament rules in advance?

PS apologies to Geysir if I've misunderstood his point about winning the group being potentially easier than getting through a play-off with France or Germany, but put like that I can't see it. You're comparing two admittedly difficult fixtures, albeit against slightly below par opposition, with four including the World champions and two away from home.

**geysir** · 19/04/2009, 6:49 PM

Originally Posted by Gather round

Apologies for the snide and wind-up in my late-night post yesterday. Shouldn't post after the pub...thanks also for the links to contemporary press articles at the time.

Okay, no problem then.

**geysir** · 19/04/2009, 6:53 PM

If more women were involved with following Ireland, we would have an exact photographic memory account of every grievance inflicted upon us over the past 50 years.

**Stuttgart88** · 20/04/2009, 6:41 AM

Originally Posted by Gather round

Stuttgart- I'm happy to accept beyond reasonable doubt that UEFA were corrupt in 2000.

Wouldn't they save themselves an embarrassing problem in future tournaments, simply by putting a seeding for the play-off based on ranking position, into the tournament rules in advance?

PS apologies to Geysir if I've misunderstood his point about winning the group being potentially easier than getting through a play-off with France or Germany, but put like that I can't see it. You're comparing two admittedly difficult fixtures, albeit against slightly below par opposition, with four including the World champions and two away from home.

Thanks.

Yep, in 1999 we all thought that UEFA should have had a clear rule at the start.

I can see Geysir's point - Bulgaria away, Cyprus away, Italy Home, Montenegro at home are probably more winnable than a 2 leg play off against a good team. It's very marginal. Italy could also be seen to be below par - even 3rd rate if you believe some of the misery merchants here after Bari. Ireland's play off experience has been poor.

**gspain** · 20/04/2009, 7:58 AM

Originally Posted by Gather round

Wouldn't they save themselves an embarrassing problem in future tournaments, simply by putting a seeding for the play-off based on ranking position, into the tournament rules in advance?

.

The problem with this is that the likes of France could slip down that seeding. Better to keep your options open.

**Stuttgart88** · 20/04/2009, 8:22 AM

Originally Posted by geysir

If more women were involved with following Ireland, we would have an exact photographic memory account of every grievance inflicted upon us over the past 50 years.

Are you calling me a woman?

**Gather round** · 20/04/2009, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by gspain

The problem with this is that the likes of France could slip down that seeding. Better to keep your options open

Fair point (although of course a big player could drop embarrassingly to third place, as England did last time).

I suppose I'm wary of giving UEFA and FIFA any more chance to fiddle things. I still think Yugoslavia should have been allowed into Euro 1992, for example

**NeilMcD** · 15/05/2009, 12:48 PM

What are the exact dates for these playoffs. Tried to find them on the web

**DeLorean** · 15/05/2009, 1:04 PM

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

What are the exact dates for these playoffs. Tried to find them on the web

It looks like the first legs will be played on Saturday, November 14th with the return legs on Wednesday, November 18th. I'm only basing this on preliminary/actual dates penciled in for the playoffs in the other continents. Presume they'll be generally the same.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FI..._qualification

**tetsujin1979** · 15/05/2009, 1:05 PM

Don't think the dates have been finalised yet, they're not on the wikipedia entry for qualifying - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FI...fication_(UEFA) - and all that's on this article on fifa.com - http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/news/ne...uropes+runners - is

The four European Zone play-offs will take place in November 2009.

**tricky_colour** · 15/05/2009, 3:59 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

If more women were involved with following Ireland, we would have an exact photographic memory account of every grievance inflicted upon us over the past 50 years.

Now, now, now, now, don't bring your marital problems into the the mix!

**Superhoops** · 15/05/2009, 6:48 PM

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

What are the exact dates for these playoffs. Tried to find them on the web

According to the official regulations published on the FIFA website here, Article 17, para.3, they have to be played between 14th and 18th November 2009.