O'Neill gives his backing for a United Ireland team

[kingdomkerry]

GR,

We can't be held responsible for the widespread mass ignorance amongst your support about the eligibility issue if that is what you mean by destroying your team.
I am surprised that you yourself would be so touchy that you would consider New Lansdowne to be deep in Injun territory.

Football for All hasn't really got into the "hearts and minds" yet. You all just look to be happy go lucky football fans but on the inside many are seething with an irrational fear of the Republic, the heartland of the conspiracy to destroy the NI team :)

I mean, we only opened up a thread discussing the sentiments of great NI legends, O'Neill and Jennings and we can feel the trembling already.

Geysir, do you not know that many people up north

Are extremley hostile towards ROI and anything Irish. eg changing the belfast monopoly game square from "go to jail" to "go to dublin" and constantly referring to ireland as a "foreign country"

Fail to recognise that there is TWO national identies in NI. (eg GSTQ and the crown on the their flag)

Do not respect the national identity of the other community (eg eligibility issue)

[geysir]

Er, no. The thread is about/ largely contributed by RoI fans who want the NI team to be effectively swallowed up. As I said, merge with Italy/ England/ Scotland if ye must. We'll keep our own team, thanks.
We are just discussing the sentiment of the great legends, Jennings, O'Neill and then Best got a mention. We are not planning an invasion so our cyber hunting puppies can relax (for now).

I was actually more curious about and trying to find an answer why someone would write with "absolute certainty" that it would not be Dublin should NI have to play games away from Windsor Park.
That indicates to me anywhere on the planet but Dublin.
I would have thought that Dublin was an obvious location, worthy of consideration at least.
You do not offer any answers for me on that mindset.

[Gather round]

We are not planning an invasion so our cyber hunting puppies can relax (for now)

Phew, that's a relief. I was worried that the tanks were already massing down Listowel way.

I would have thought that Dublin was an obvious location, worthy of consideration at least. You do not offer any answers for me on that mindset

Er- I answered your question directly further up the page. Let me repeat, "Dublin's less likely than Wrexham or Kilmarnock because it's even more likely to **** off our support. Nobody in Gwynedd nor Ayrshire wants to abolish the NI side".

[amaccann]

It's a sad reflection on the distrust that still exists if NI fans would rather travel over the water, and at great expense, than hop on a train down to Dublin to avail of their neighbours facilities.

[ifk101]

It's a sad reflection on the distrust that still exists if NI fans would rather travel over the water, and at great expense, than hop on a train down to Dublin to avail of their neighbours facilities.

Where exactly in Dublin would they play their games?

[Razors left peg]

Why exactly would we want them to play their games down here, since they use God save the queen as their anthem Im sure they would be much happier to play in england.

[amaccann]

Where exactly in Dublin would they play their games?
*ahem* Why Morton Stadium of course ;)

[ifk101]

*ahem* Why Morton Stadium of course ;)

Well joking aside, it's really only the Dublin LOI grounds that could host NI.

Lansdowne will be 2-3 times too big for NI. The most they'd attract to a game is 20,000 so you're looking at 30,000 odds seats that are empty. If the IFA aren't able to half-fill Lansdowne it's unlikely they be able to cover the costs associated with using the stadium. Another more practical problem is that we'll be looking to use Lansdowne on the same nights NI would be looking to stage matches.

The only possible venue that could be used is the RDS but I'd doubt whether the RDS' make-shift stands are suitable to host international football.

[amaccann]

Well joking aside, it's really only the Dublin LOI grounds that could host NI.

Lansdowne will be 2-3 times too big for NI. The most they'd attract to a game is 20,000 so you're looking at 30,000 odds seats that are empty. If the IFA aren't able to half-fill Lansdowne it's unlikely they be able to cover the costs associated with using the stadium. Another more practical problem is that we'll be looking to use Lansdowne on the same nights NI would be looking to stage matches.

The only possible venue that could be used is the RDS but I'd doubt whether the RDS' make-shift stands are suitable to host international football.

Well yes, with the redevelopment of Landsdowne Road, I guess the question is kinda irrelevant, but I don't get the impression that NI fans' reluctance to play in Dublin is less to do with facilities and more to do with the idea of playing in the Republic.

[Gather round]

many people up north are extremley hostile towards ROI

Oh, present company excepted. I'm very keen on the RoI, it's a great place to visit.

and anything Irish

Let's do this gently, shall we? We are Irish, just like our families going back generations. Just as Irish as you. You really must make an effort to grasp that there are hundreds of thousands of Irish Ulster unionists, NI fans etc.

the belfast monopoly game square from "go to jail" to "go to dublin"

Ha ha. OK, another childish pun, but it's hardly the invasion of Iraq, is it?

and constantly referring to ireland as a "foreign country"

Well, like I said. Very pleasant for a foreign holiday. Just not for a home fixture.

Fail to recognise that there is TWO national identies in NI (eg GSTQ and the crown on their flag)

I've no problem with two or more identities. For what it’s worth, I’d prefer a different anthem (Alternative Ulster?) and no crown on the flag.

It's a sad reflection on the distrust that still exists if NI fans would rather travel over the water, and at great expense, than hop on a train down to Dublin to avail of their neighbours facilities

I’ve explained the distrust, above. Travel to Kilmarnock isn’t a great expense in comparison to the trip to Dublin.

But I don’t want to visit either for a home game.

Why exactly would we want them to play their games down here, since they use God save the queen as their anthem I’m sure they would be much happier to play in England

Possibly some RoI fans would be upset and try to stir exaggerated outrage. But there wasn’t that much of a fuss when England played the first rugby international in Croke. And opposition to your home game at Fulham seems muted too.

The most they'd attract to a game is 20,000

I very much doubt we’d attract anywhere near that to any home game outside NI.

[ifk101]

Well yes, with the redevelopment of Landsdowne Road, I guess the question is kinda irrelevant, but I don't get the impression that NI fans' reluctance to play in Dublin is less to do with facilities and more to do with the idea of playing in the Republic.

I think that's understandable though. I'd imagine the vast majority of people wouldn't have a problem with NI playing in Dublin but we know there would be a significant number of local idiots intent on causing trouble. Anyways there isn't a suitable venue for them so it doesn't really matter.

[Razors left peg]

Why exactly would we want them to play their games down here, since they use God save the queen as their anthem I’m sure they would be much happier to play in England

Possibly some RoI fans would be upset and try to stir exaggerated outrage. But there wasn’t that much of a fuss when England played the first rugby international in Croke. And opposition to your home game at Fulham seems muted too.

I wasnt saying that it would cause outrage amongst Irish fans(although there prob would be a few), I was just making the point that Northern Ireland fans feel more British than Irish so would probably be happier to play in England rather than Dublin

[jmurphyc]

And opposition to your home game at Fulham seems muted too.


As far as I'm aware, it's not a "home" game. We played in England in 2004 in the Valley for the Unity Cup and that was not a home game either. Plenty of countries play in neutral venues in London and seeing as Croke Park is expensive to rent and it's not a particularly glamourous fixture it's a bit understandable. I would have preferred the game to be in Dublin but I don't know the reasons behind it.

[geysir]

Let's do this gently, shall we? We are Irish, just like our families going back generations. Just as Irish as you. You really must make an effort to grasp that there are hundreds of thousands of Irish Ulster unionists, NI fans etc.

That's interesting,
the more I think about it the more I see the good sense in having just one team in Ireland.
However much you and others would want an inclusive support for a NI team competing in green with that very nice badge, it is in reality an Irish Unionist team with participation of some nationalist players. In all honesty, I do not see that that is going to change. Even in the debate about a new stadium, I get some messages that the present support are happy enough with a tight 20,000 capacity.
There is a deep shared identity with Ireland going back generations. The Northern Ireland players that have come out for an All Ireland team are looking at the practical football sense of it and they see their Irish identity as being strong enough to do it.
It's a nonsense statement to say unite with France or whoever but not NI.
That is the type of an entirely dismissive statement demeaning the sense of shared Irish nationality amongst nationalists in the North that will never see them support an OWC team.

[Billsthoughts]

That's interesting,
the more I think about it the more I see the good sense in having just one team in Ireland.

Or should that be the more you try and engineer an argument…..


it is in reality an Irish Unionist team with participation of some nationalist players.

Wouldn’t that make it a team of both unionist and nationalist players then?



In all honesty, I do not see that that is going to change. Even in the debate about a new stadium, I get some messages that the present support are happy enough with a tight 20,000 capacity.
Probably not far off what our core support would be if we werent doing well. (See attendance for Ireland v Brazil in 87)



That is the type of an entirely dismissive statement demeaning the sense of shared Irish nationality amongst nationalists in the North that will never see them support an OWC team.
Wouldn’t the converse be true for Unionists in the event of an All Ireland team? Or do they not count in your little world view?

[Gather round]

As far as I'm aware, it's not a "home" game. We played in England in 2004 in the Valley for the Unity Cup and that was not a home game either

Indeed, the 2004 games were an invitation tournament n a neutral country. I went to both your games in a two-thirds empty stadium.But this is clearly different- you have deliberately hired a stadium in England rather than use one in Dublin or Cork.

Plenty of countries play in neutral venues in London and seeing as Croke Park is expensive to rent and it's not a particularly glamourous fixture it's a bit understandable. I would have preferred the game to be in Dublin but I don't know the reasons behind it

Given the low crowds in London in 2004- why would this game be that different- and thus the likelihood of a financial loss, this looks odd even before you consider fans' opposition to playing such games at a 'neutral' venue. Like 1FK and others on the Colombia game thread, I don't see that admin difficulties with block booking, or Colombia's unwillingness to fly from Madrid to Dublin rather than London, as compelling reasons not to use the RDS or Turner's Cross.

the more I think about it the more I see the good sense in having just one team in Ireland

I don't see any sense in it. NI supporters are completely opposed to it, ergo it won't happen.

However much you and others would want an inclusive support for a NI team

There is already- has always been- some 'inclusive' support for NI, ie nationalist fans who back us along with, or in a few cases instead of, your team. Many RoI fans backed us in the 1982 and 1986 World Cups. We have had some success in making NI games and football generally more welcome to everybody, though I'm not complacent about this.

it is in reality an Irish Unionist team with participation of some nationalist players

Aye, I accept this. In the broad sense, Ireland is divided between two countries. One's unionist and has a separate football team. Theoretically, I suppose, we could reach a situation where our team is made up entirely of unionist players. It wouldn't be the end of the World.

Even in the debate about a new stadium, I get some messages that the present support are happy enough with a tight 20,000 capacity

My reading is that almost all the present support would be happy with a 20,000- 25,000 capacity. Any larger would be difficult to fill and a waste of money.

The Northern Ireland players that have come out for an All Ireland team are looking at the practical football sense of it

What practical football sense? NI is a very small footballing country extremely unlikely to give RoI, or anyone, the marginal advantage to win the World Cup. West Germany took over the East (with a population ten times NI's), and haven't improved significantly since.The idea's daft and dishonest both.

and they see their Irish identity as being strong enough to do it

Good for them. I'm quite comfortable with my lifelong Irish identity. I have no national identity with the RoI nor Germany, having lived in both as a student. What's the problem?

It's a nonsense statement to say unite with France or whoever but not NI

There's no realistic likelihood of an all-Ireland football team, so one's no more nor less nonsensical than the other. Actually the others I mentioned were England (your imminent home fixture as above), Scotland (best player) or Italy (team manager)

That is the type of an entirely dismissive statement demeaning the sense of shared Irish nationality amongst nationalists in the North

Don't be such a crybaby. I haven't dismissed nor demeaned anyone's Irish identity.

that will never see them support an OWC team

Some of them already do, and I'm wholly relaxed about those who prefer not to.

[jmurphyc]

[B]As far as I'm aware, it's not a "home" game.
Indeed, the 2004 games were an invitation tournament n a neutral country. I went to both your games in a two-thirds empty stadium.But this is clearly different- you have deliberately hired a stadium in England rather than use one in Dublin or Cork.

Given the low crowds in London in 2004- why would this game be that different- and thus the likelihood of a financial loss, this looks odd even before you consider fans' opposition to playing such games at a 'neutral' venue. Like 1FK and others on the Colombia game thread, I don't see that admin difficulties with block booking, or Colombia's unwillingness to fly from Madrid to Dublin rather than London, as compelling reasons not to use the RDS or Turner's Cross.


If you keep referring to it as a "home" game then I can only assume you're on a wind up. From what I can recall previous posters saying/heard in the media Trapattoni requested a game away/in a neutral venue. It makes sense to me as it's a lot easier to play around with a team in a meaningless friendly away from home than it is in Croke Park with anywhere from 50-75,000 people watching. He can mess around with the team whilst being under a lot less scrutiny should we play poorly.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Probably not far off what our core support would be if we werent doing well. (See attendance for Ireland v Brazil in 87)



Hardly relevant today Bill, we've not exactly set the world alight recently (1 qualification since 1994) yet still pulled well over 40,000 for a friendly against China (amongst others) in recent years.....

[ifk101]

If you keep referring to it as a "home" game then I can only assume you're on a wind up. From what I can recall previous posters saying/heard in the media Trapattoni requested a game away/in a neutral venue. It makes sense to me as it's a lot easier to play around with a team in a meaningless friendly away from home than it is in Croke Park with anywhere from 50-75,000 people watching. He can mess around with the team whilst being under a lot less scrutiny should we play poorly.

The FAI is organising the game so technically it is a home international. I'd also question if Trapattoni asked for an away friendly at a neutral venue - I think he just asked for another match to prepare for the qualifiers.

[Gather round]

If you keep referring to it as a "home" game then I can only assume you're on a wind up

No, I'm being serious. It's obviously not an away game, it's not comparable to playing a Latino country in the USA (as both NI and RoI have done). But OK, I'll stop using the H-word.

Trapattoni requested a game away/in a neutral venue

An away fixture in the Balkans would make playing sense, but I can't see any justification for a neutral ground so close to home. Even if GT specifically asked for it. Is there a source for this?

It makes sense to me as it's a lot easier to play around with a team in a meaningless friendly away from home...he can mess around with the team whilst being under a lot less scrutiny should we play poorly

This seems a bit convoluted. If he doesn't want media attention, why not have a closed session at Morton stadium or wherever? Both Worthington and Mark Hughes have favoured this in the past.

than it is in Croke Park with anywhere from 50-75,000 people watching

There wouldn't be anywhere near 50,000 there- but in any case I suggested other venues. I haven't see any compelling reasons why you couldn't play at RDS or TC.

[Billsthoughts]

Hardly relevant today Bill, we've not exactly set the world alight recently (1 qualification since 1994) yet still pulled well over 40,000 for a friendly against China (amongst others) in recent years.....

Witness cyprus game were 30 odd thousand actually bought tickets and didnt turn up for it? I would say the amount of people that would follow the team regardless of how well they are doing is around the 20- 30 thousand mark.

[jmurphyc]

This seems a bit convoluted. If he doesn't want media attention, why not have a closed session at Morton stadium or wherever? Both Worthington and Mark Hughes have favoured this in the past.

than it is in Croke Park with anywhere from 50-75,000 people watching

There wouldn't be anywhere near 50,000 there- but in any case I suggested other venues. I haven't see any compelling reasons why you couldn't play at RDS or TC.

The attendances so far at Croke Park suggest that there would be at least 50,000 at the game. If we were to play at the RDS or an LOI ground the demand for tickets would be far too high.

I understand what you're saying about my assertion that Trap maybe did it to avoid unnecessary media attention, but as far as I can recall I heard that he wanted an away friendly or a friendly in a neutral venue. As for the reasons why he may have wanted this, I have no real idea why and am just trying to second guess his actions.


The FAI is organising the game so technically it is a home international. I'd also question if Trapattoni asked for an away friendly at a neutral venue - I think he just asked for another match to prepare for the qualifiers.

I don't know whether the FAI organised it, but if so why are tickets not on sale via the FAI instead of having to purchase them on the Fulham website?

[Drumcondra 69er]

Witness cyprus game were 30 odd thousand actually bought tickets and didnt turn up for it? I would say the amount of people that would follow the team regardless of how well they are doing is around the 20- 30 thousand mark.

There was still well over 50,000 at the Cyprus game following an utter debacle of a campaign, there's still enough interest to sustain crowds like that. I was at that Brazil game in 1987 and was able to stroll up to a turnstile 10 minutes before kick off. For a game against Brazil!! Those days are long gone and won't be back imo. The block booking system in part has seen to that.




[B]than it is in Croke Park with anywhere from 50-75,000 people watching

There wouldn't be anywhere near 50,000 there- but in any case I suggested other venues. I haven't see any compelling reasons why you couldn't play at RDS or TC.

Yes there would. See how many are at the Serbia game in May. Is Columbia any less attractive? The fact is that we regulalry got sell out crowds for friendlies at Lansdowne of over 40,000. The FAI insist that you buy friendly tickets as part of your block book or lose out your allocation for competitive games. Had that friendly been on in Croker and sold as part of a package with the Serbia and Brazil game for example there's easilly have been close to 50,000 there.

[geysir]

Gather Round, please use the quote option when replying.
We are each, in our own way, unique :)


Aye, I accept this. In the broad sense, Ireland is divided between two countries. One's unionist and has a separate football team. Theoretically, I suppose, we could reach a situation where our team is made up entirely of unionist players. It wouldn't be the end of the World.
It would just be reflecting the reality.


What practical football sense? NI is a very small footballing country extremely unlikely to give RoI, or anyone, the marginal advantage to win the World Cup. West Germany took over the East (with a population ten times NI's), and haven't improved significantly since.The idea's daft and dishonest both.I think you are missing Jenning's point.
What would be daft in your analogy is if Germany did not pick their best 11.
After that then you could look at the demographics of the best 11.
Then you could examine the team and wonder just how less they would be as a team without their Eastern born players.
In both our cases, NI and the ROI, the chronic problem is depth of squad.
West Germany had a healthy league and already a strong squad.
Jennings and Giles in their time knew what kind of team could have been got together. Same for George Best.


Good for them. I'm quite comfortable with my lifelong Irish identity. I have no national identity with the RoI nor Germany, having lived in both as a student. What's the problem?We are talking about it, not brushing it under the old carpet.

The question the NI fans are not asking is the one not asked of Martin O'Neill. Would you Martin have willingly given up the WC Spain experience to a better player from the Republic?

[RogerMilla]

we already have a united ireland team , anyone on the island who wants to play for us can. those who dont want to play for us even have their own team . perfect solution in my opinion.

[Hibernian]

I don't care whether any such new team had no NI players, half a dozen NI players or the whole lot were from NI. And when it comes to it, I don't really care about flags and anthems etc. Nor do I have anything against the ROI team or its supporters.

It's just I have no desire to see the team I first went to watch 38 years ago disappear, to be replaced by a United Ireland team, a United Kingdom team, or any other "United" team, for that matter.

NI are my team, I've supported them through thick and thin and I just want to go on doing so. Why can't other people, who fervently follow their own team, not understand this? :confused:

P.S. If absolutely forced, the only possibility I might countenance would be to merge with Brazil or, at a pinch, Sweden (the latter more for their female fans than their players! ;))

I think this is a great point there. At end of day we are seperate countries. That is just the way it is. Can't see it happening for long long time not in my time I would be surprised if otherwise

[Gather round]

The attendances so far at Croke Park suggest that there would be at least 50,000 at the game

I stand corrected, apologies. But I was assuming that Croke Park was unavailable for this game. My point was really that I haven't seen any compelling case NOT to use the smaller, but licensed and adequate stadia elsewhere in the country.


It would just be reflecting the reality

Only if all decent footballers from nationalist background in NI decide to play for RoI. There are many reasons why they might not- leaving aside party politics, I'd guess a major one is selection for NI school and youth representative teams would increase the likelihood of a professional contract in Britain.


What would be daft in your analogy is if Germany did not pick their best 11. After that then you could look at the demographics of the best 11. Then you could examine the team and wonder just how less they would be as a team without their Eastern born players

My analogy is straightforward. Merging two international football teams doesn't necessarily mean that the new team will be significantly stronger than both its predecessors. As for the demographics of the German team in the 1990s and since, it's of only academic interest really. I have drunk in the pub in Torsten Frings' home village (near Aachen)...


Jennings and Giles in their time knew what kind of team could have been got together. Same for George Best

Er...so what? Everyone at the time knew how good the players in both teams were, they saw them on MotD every week.


The question the NI fans are not asking is the one not asked of Martin O'Neill. Would you Martin have willingly given up the WC Spain experience to a better player from the Republic?

Why would we ask that? It's not hypothetical, just pointless.


We are each, in our own way, unique

We are talking about it, not brushing it under the old carpet

I'm afraid you'll have to explain these gnomic asides to me...


we already have a united ireland team , anyone on the island who wants to play for us can. those who dont want to play for us even have their own team . perfect solution in my opinion (Roger Milla)

Bien sur, mon ami.

[geysir]

Sorry Gather Round, it is very very tedious, sometimes nonsensical when you refuse to use the quote function and apply board discussion format to your replies.

[Gather round]

Geysir, happy now? For the benefit of other readers, I've edited above to quote others in italic as per convention, rather than in bold type. I just find the latter quicker and more convenient as a rule. I'd be amazed if anyone else considered this distinction (as opposed to what people actually write, which you seem less worried about) as tedious, let alone nonsensical.

[GavinZac]

Geysir, happy now? For the benefit of other readers, I've quoted others in italic as per convention, rather than in bold type. I just find the latter quicker and more convenient as a rule.
Its horrible to read through though.

[Gather round]

OK Gavin, consider my amazement temporarily suspended ;)

[GavinZac]

OK Gavin, consider my amazement temporarily suspended ;)

As Chair of the Membership Advisory Board I'm only too happy to help.

[geysir]

Geysir, happy now? For the benefit of other readers, I've edited above to quote others in italic as per convention, rather than in bold type. I just find the latter quicker and more convenient as a rule. I'd be amazed if anyone else considered this distinction (as opposed to what people actually write, which you seem less worried about) as tedious, let alone nonsensical.
Surely you are not having a little hissy fit :D
Take my polite suggestion in the spirit it was suggested, for the purposes of discussion.
The tedious bit for me is after trying to figure out who wrote what in your posts, is if I wanted to reply to your answer in normal board discussion format. Then it comes into one big indecipherible pile of text, I have to search and delete irrelevant stuff.
This is the system tried and tested here and most everybody follows it. You persisted in doing what suits you even after being asked.

This is the nonsensical bit I was referring to

I'm afraid you'll have to explain these gnomic asides to me...
"We are each, in our own way, unique"
"We are talking about it, not brushing it under the old carpet"

I see now it refers to two quotes, one from I don't know where and the other was a reply to something you were asking, you wrote
"Whats the Problem?"
I wrote "We are talking about it, not brushing it under the old carpet"
as in, there is no problem, we are discussing it.

[Gather round]

Surely you are not having a little hissy fit

Not at all. The irritability and childishness is coming largely from you. You sulk like a big baby when snide comments are thrown back at you.Either you are just out to wind up, in which case you can hardly complain when others do it. Or you are genuinely upset that we don't want to give up our team just so yours can ship less than five against Cyprus. If so, diddums. Call us back when there's a united Ireland, eh?


The tedious bit for me is after trying to figure out who wrote what in your posts, is if I wanted to reply to your answer in normal board discussion format. Then it comes into one big indecipherible pile of text, I have to search and delete irrelevant stuff

Poor you. But what's the problem, I've edited it?


This is the system tried and tested here and most everybody follows it. You persisted in doing what suits you even after being asked

See above. Sorry I didn't respond instantaneously, I didn't realise you had dictatorial rights on this site


I see now it refers to two quotes, one from I don't know where ("We are each, in our own way, unique") and the other was a reply to something you were asking, you wrote "Whats the Problem?" I wrote "We are talking about it, not brushing it under the old carpet" as in, there is no problem, we are discussing it

You should know where, since you wrote it in reply to me barely two hours ago. Since I wasn't brushing anything under the carpet, but merely saying that despite having lived in the RoI and Germany, I felt no national identity with either, your reply makes no sense.

[Supreme feet]

In 'The boys in green' (1997), Sean Ryan talked about an All-Ireland team being 'the dream of every genuine Irish football fan.' Maybe it is tragic that the split wasn't resolved when there was a real chance for reconciliation in the '50s. However, this particular utopia belongs with an older generation, hence Giles and O'Neill supporting it. Being born in 1984, I've only known Northern Ireland and their players as bitter and emotive rivals throughout several qualification campaigns - and distinctly separate from, and alien to the team I've supported and loved from a very young age. I can understand that NI's supporters would feel the same way about us.

[kingdomkerry]

In 'The boys in green' (1997), Sean Ryan talked about an All-Ireland team being 'the dream of every genuine Irish football fan.' Maybe it is tragic that the split wasn't resolved when there was a real chance for reconciliation in the '50s. However, this particular utopia belongs with an older generation, hence Giles and O'Neill supporting it. Being born in 1984, I've only known Northern Ireland and their players as bitter and emotive rivals throughout several qualification campaigns - and distinctly separate from, and alien to the team I've supported and loved from a very young age. I can understand that NI's supporters would feel the same way about us.

Id agree with the Sean Ryan quote, but I would'nt agree its a utopia which belongs to an older generation. The dogs on the street know it would be better to have an all ireland team. Its called synergy (2+2=5)

I would also agree with your opinon of supporters of the NI football team, by reading some of the crap that their supporters post on here it is no wonder our crowd in the north would'nt touch them with a barge pole!!

[geysir]

Poor you. But what's the problem, I've edited it? very :confused:
Obviously the problem existed before you edited it. Thank you. It was making everybody else out to be very bold indeed.


See above. Sorry I didn't respond instantaneously, I didn't realise you had dictatorial rights on this site
So it is a hissy fit.
If you have any genuine grievance about the tone of my replies please report them to the mod. But I'd assume their eyes are watching.

You should know where, since you wrote it in reply to me barely two hours ago. Since I wasn't brushing anything under the carpet, but merely saying that despite having lived in the RoI and Germany, I felt no national identity with either, your reply makes no sense.
I can try and answer the earlier quote you asked about.
Usually a person quotes the matter at hand in their first reply. Then it´s easy to see the context if any, easy to answer.
If you quote some line at random from an earlier post and mix it in with a quote from hours later and ask a question - what does it mean -, then it makes no sense.

The each one is unique was when I asked you to "quote" when replying
You would have one reply answering up to 4 different posters with no reference as to who wrote what. Therefore I wrote, each one of us is unique - use the quote function.
But then poor me, I don't have the time to keep backtracking through to find who wrote what :rolleyes:

[Billsthoughts]

ffs...will you just pm the lad all this. nobody else cares about what format he posts in. I doubt even you would care if he hadnt handed you your backside on a plate re the topic in hand.;)

[Gather round]

If you have any genuine grievance about the tone of my replies please report them to the mod. But I'd assume their eyes are watching

Glad we cleared up the typeface issue, G. I've no "grievance" nor need to involve the mods- although, as others say above, it's likely they'll lock the thread. There's little room for compromise on this one, little new in the debate, etc.


Sean Ryan talked about an All-Ireland team being 'the dream of every genuine Irish football fan.'

Did/ does he think NI fans are not genuinely fans nor Irish? As above, it's either a wind-up or deluded.


Being born in 1984, I've only known Northern Ireland and their players as bitter and emotive rivals throughout several qualification campaigns

I'd agree it can change over time. For instance, in 1993, I was actually happy enough with the 1-1 draw at Windsor that allowed you to qualify, although I'd have been annoyed had you won the game. And now that you have effectively consolidated as a third-ranked team, we can genuinely consider you as a rival. That wasn't possible when we were struggling to fifth in 2004, 2002 and 1998 while you were challenging to qualify.
The NI youth players declaring for RoI is likely to cause friction awhile, though I'm personally relaxed about it.


The dogs on the street know it would be better to have an all ireland team. Its called synergy (2+2=5)

Woof. What does 2+5 equal? If I were you I'd concentrate on beating half of Cyprus and not needing a broken stopwatch to see off Syn marinergy.


no wonder our crowd in the north would'nt touch them with a barge pole!!

Er...the whole point of the thread is that you do want to touch us with a barge pole...

[Drumcondra 69er]

Er...the whole point of the thread is that you do want to touch us with a barge pole...

No, the whole point of this thread is that some of your former players like the idea of an all Ireland team.

[Gather round]

Aye, a feeling shared by many of the contributors to the thread- including the one I was replying to.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Aye, a feeling shared by many of the contributors to the thread- including the one I was replying to.

Indeed, but the point of the thread was to discuss comments made by Martin O'Neill regarding the prospect rather then a random suggestion from an ROI fan or fans as you imply.

By the way, did anyone see the piece on the reunion of the team on Monday Night Football last night on RTE. Some great footage of the match along with interviews with the Ireland players and the Brazil team (their 1970 team were over in England last week for some football fair and RTE sent a camera crew over). It's well worth looking up on RTE.ie if anyone missed it.

[Gather round]

D9-69er: I don't think it matters whether some random poster raised the subject, or that a European cup winner did. The thread is about/ made up largely of people saying it would be a great idea, and the responses to that.

[EalingGreen]

D9-69er: I don't think it matters whether some random poster raised the subject, or that a European cup winner did. The thread is about/ made up largely of people saying it would be a great idea, and the responses to that.

[Well, I'm glad I managed to get back to this thread before it was locked(!); in the meantime, I agree totally with Gather Round's earlier responses.]

Of course, GR is correct to characterise the "debate" as he does - ie. essentially ROI fans saying it would be great etc., in response to the comments of two ex-players (who themselves can hardly be said to be representative of all former, or current, NI players, never mind the wider NI football family)

So why won't so many of those who would combine the two teams acknowledge that we think differently? Have we no right to object? To be a truly "united" team, it would take both parties to agree willingly and such agreement is simply nowhere on the horizon.

After all, it cannot be a "love match" when so many (90%+) of the NI fanbase are implacably opposed to the idea.

There is no possibility of an "arranged marriage" when at least one of the parents (IFA) has no interest.

It cannot ever be a "forced marriage", since the authorities (FIFA) would never accept that.

"So face up to it, darling. You're a lovely girl and many's another would be happy to have you, but it's just not working for us, is it? Why not just continue our separate ways before we start to hate each other? I'm sure you'll find someone else who'll make you happy. Oh and by the way, the record collection is mine, though you can keep Darron Gibson's Debut Album..." ;)

[geysir]

Indeed, but the point of the thread was to discuss comments made by Martin O'Neill regarding the prospect rather then a random suggestion from an ROI fan or fans as you imply.

By the way, did anyone see the piece on the reunion of the team on Monday Night Football last night on RTE. Some great footage of the match along with interviews with the Ireland players and the Brazil team (their 1970 team were over in England last week for some football fair and RTE sent a camera crew over). It's well worth looking up on RTE.ie if anyone missed it.
Is it the radio sports show on this list
Rte Shams V Brazil (http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/audiovideo_index.html)?
Who was doing the commentary of the game?

How many times does Hamilton say 'special'?
He said more or less that an all Ireland league would be a progressive step for football on the Island. That these days more good footballers are not going abroad and we should have the best League to develop them.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Is it the radio sports show on this list
Rte Shams V Brazil (http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/audiovideo_index.html)?
Who was doing the commentary of the game?



Nah, it's actually on the TV show from last night on the same link, about halfway through. Jimmy Magee did the piece which wasn't ideal but it was still pretty good. Just click on the media player link for MNS 7th April and the link to that segment should come up in a seperate window.

[EalingGreen]

How many times does Hamilton say 'special'?
He said more or less that an all Ireland league would be a progressive step for football on the Island.

True, but if an AIL should come about, how/why would that lead to a "United Ireland team" (the subject of this thread)?



That these days more good footballers are not going abroad and we should have the best League to develop them.
Can't download the Interview, but is it possible that with fewer opportunities in England/Scotland for middle-ranking Irish players (both LOI and IL), due to the huge influx of players to those countries from all over the world, that earning a decent wage in a small pond at home is more attractive than going across the water and taking your chance in the (more competitive) big pond?

[geysir]

Nah, it's actually on the TV show from last night on the same link, about halfway through. Jimmy Magee did the piece which wasn't ideal but it was still pretty good. Just click on the media player link for MNS 7th April and the link to that segment should come up in a seperate window.
That's it, thanks.
Nice that Giles got paid that high respect, even 35 years later from the Brazilian.

EalingGreen
True, but if an AIL should come about, how/why would that lead to a "United Ireland team" (the subject of this thread)?I don't think the two are inextricably connected. The two federations can have their representative teams and the leading clubs can compete together in a competitive premier league. I'd presume that this would need to written in blood for IL fans.:D
There was thread discussing the issue in the LOI section, but I lost interest when it degenerated into pages disputing the city boundaries of Derry.


Can't download the InterviewYou just click on the link and it plays in your browser


but is it possible that with fewer opportunities in England/Scotland for middle-ranking Irish players (both LOI and IL), due to the huge influx of players to those countries from all over the world, that earning a decent wage in a small pond at home is more attractive than going across the water and taking your chance in the (more competitive) big pond?That's it, in a larger nutshell;)

[EalingGreen]

EalingGreen
I don't think the two [AIL and "United" Ireland team] are inextricably connected. The two federations can have their representative teams and the leading clubs can compete together in a competitive premier league.


This would be the only way the necessary majority of IL clubs would ever agree to an AIL.


EalingGreen
I'd presume that this would need to written in blood for IL fans.:D


Can you blame us if we were no longer prepared to rely on a "Gentlemens' Agreement" with the FAI? :rolleyes:

[ifk101]

There's no sporting justification for an united Ireland team. Bar one or maybe two exceptions, the current NI squad of players would only marginally improve our squad.

Off the field, an united Ireland team would only serve to create "problems" (to put it mildly) and as such it's not something I would lend my support to.