UEFA Coefficient

[Candystripe]

Unless Bohs goes belly up (ala Shels) and Derry finish 2nd in the league. Then Derry would be seeded in the CL no matter what other clubs from other leagues did .

[Dodge]

Unless Bohs goes belly up (ala Shels) and Derry finish 2nd in the league. Then Derry would be seeded in the CL no matter what other clubs from other leagues did .

Ahem... Pats too could be seeded. If we win league and beat Hertha ( ;) )

[swinfordfc]

Ahem... Pats too could be seeded. If we win league and beat Hertha ( ;) )

it looks like 30th is the position for us this season! provided BATE B..... of Belarus dont pick up anything!

[garyderry]

Ahem... Pats too could be seeded. If we win league and beat Hertha ( ;) )

would take that anyday over bohs winning the leage ;)

[Schumi]

Ahem... Pats too could be seeded. If we win league and beat Hertha ( ;) )I don't know which of these is more likely now!

[HarpoJoyce]

it looks like 30th is the position for us this season! provided BATE B..... of Belarus dont pick up anything!

It's in two seasons time. LoI is 35th for all of this season. Until end of June 2009 and then 35th for all of next season too, July 2009 - June 2010. What is being competed for this season will mature in two seasons, 2010-2011.

[pineapple stu]

We've had this before, and didn't we decide that 30th will be our seeding for next season (makes no sense being 35th two years in a row), but access and starting rounds will be based on 35th for next year?

[HarpoJoyce]

We've had this before, and didn't we decide that 30th will be our seeding for next season (makes no sense being 35th two years in a row), but access and starting rounds will be based on 35th for next year?

I don't understand the first part of your post. But you appear to understand the UEFA Co-efficient method of measurement with the last part of the final sentence.

[gspain]

For 2009/2010 competitions.

Access list and the round you enter the competition at is based on coeffcients up until end of May 2008.

however seeding in each round is base don tyour club and national coefficient up until end of May 2009.

[holidaysong]

A revamp to co-efficients next year:

This was posted on Bert's site (http://kassiesa.com/uefaforum/view.php?topic=20080904192447.xml), it's a translation from a Greek website (http://www.goalday.gr/article.asp?catid=10771&subid=2&tag=7852&pubid=1374399).


- Confirmed club coefficient changes from 33% to 20% of national coefficient.
- 4 bonus points for entering Champions league, instead of 3
- points in qualifying rounds COUNT for club coefficients
- bonus points for participating in CL and EL preliminaries also: 0.25 for ELQR1, 0.5 for ELQR2, 1 point for ELQR3, 1.5 for ELQR4 and 2 points for EL group stage.
- 0.5 points for CLQR0, 1 point for CLQR1, but no bonus points for CLQR2 and CLQR3 because those excluded in those rounds will continue in Europa League and receive bonus points there.
- Points are not gained anymore for individual results achieved, but by qualifying for a certain stage you receive points.

[Dodge]

Fairly big changes

[holidaysong]

Fairly big changes

I don't like the fact that you now gain points depending on which round you qualify for and not on your individual results.. That can't be good for LOI clubs.

Also, there seems to be a paradox in that - there is now a lower percentage given to the national coefficient meaning club points are now going to be more important. But, there will be club points now awarded in the qualifying rounds making them less importnant.. :confused:

Despite that I'm looking forward to the new system - especially the CL 'national champions' and the runners-ups from the better countries being kept apart.

Hopefully UEFA bring out a statement soon with it all clearly explained.

[Dodge]

Also, there seems to be a paradox in that - there is now a lower percentage given to the national coefficient meaning club points are now going to be more important. But, there will be club points now awarded in the qualifying rounds making them less importnant.. :confused:

More important if you don't have them though. I mean if we lose to Hertha and qualify for the UEFA next year with say Sligo (if they finished 4th and qualify), in the current system we'd both be ranked the same but in the new system Pats would achieve points for getting by Elfsborg and Olimps so would be seeded higher. Seems fair enough.

I wonder will this be retrograded, so we may have to work out totally different co-efficients for countries and clubs

[pete]

All those years of trying to understand the system lost with one stroke of the pen by Platini :eek: :(

[mattl]

As a co-efficient lover changes are always interesting, especially when they benefit the LOI!

But even I'm still baffled by some of the changes - need to see the full list of changes and rules before we can work anything out. Lot of unanswered questions still.

Key thing is with our Champion - great chance of making the Europa League Group Stages.

One of the questions I thought of in relation to the Eircom League is what if our Champions also won the FAI Cup? Who is the team that gets to go to second round as our FAI cup rep? Because they're getting rid of sending the runners-up from now on (I'd say Scotland are thrilled), which is a great idea imo. Sorry to likes of Bray and Sligo etc. but we need the points and have to send our strongest teams!

[Schumi]

what if our Champions also won the FAI Cup? Who is the team that gets to go to second round as our FAI cup rep?The 2nd place team in the league I'd assume, It'd be a bit odd to reward a lower placed team instead.

Does anyone have a list of Irish teams who qualified for the UEFA Cup by losing the cup final?

[HarpoJoyce]

As a co-efficient lover changes are always interesting, especially when they benefit the LOI!

But even I'm still baffled by some of the changes - need to see the full list of changes and rules before we can work anything out. Lot of unanswered questions still.

Key thing is with our Champion - great chance of making the Europa League Group Stages.

One of the questions I thought of in relation to the Eircom League is what if our Champions also won the FAI Cup? Who is the team that gets to go to second round as our FAI cup rep? Because they're getting rid of sending the runners-up from now on (I'd say Scotland are thrilled), which is a great idea imo. Sorry to likes of Bray and Sligo etc. but we need the points and have to send our strongest teams!

Mattl, I'm glad your appetite for the Co-Efficient is still strong. Is the removal of beaten finalist confirmed, as UEFA were making a point about the CW (Cup winner rep. ) and where they fit into the new established qualifying rounds.


The 2nd place team in the league I'd assume, It'd be a bit odd to reward a lower placed team instead.
Does anyone have a list of Irish teams who qualified for the UEFA Cup by losing the cup final?

As you know Shamrock Rovers played in the European Cup after losing in the FAI Cup Final Replay in 1984. But that was in the day when the European Cup was considered a better competition than the Cup-Winners-Cup by UEFA.

Does your question need one more qualification, the losing finalists didn't end up in the league runners-up spot either?

[TheBoss]

Despite that I'm looking forward to the new system - especially the CL 'national champions' and the runners-ups from the better countries being kept apart.

Hopefully UEFA bring out a statement soon with it all clearly explained.

Its not that hard to understand, They will be 2 separate qualifications, ones for nations between Rank 1-15 and another for nations ranked 16-53. There is 2 rounds for 1-15 and 4 rounds for 16-53, 5 Teams will qualify from 1-15 and 5 Teams will qualify from 16-53.

[holidaysong]

Its not that hard to understand, They will be 2 separate qualifications, ones for nations between Rank 1-15 and another for nations ranked 16-53. There is 2 rounds for 1-15 and 4 rounds for 16-53, 5 Teams will qualify from 1-15 and 5 Teams will qualify from 16-53.

Obviously I understand that.. What I'd like them to clarify is the new workings out of the co-efficients and how it will work out in the group stages - For example, will draws and wins in the group stages yield points or do you have to get out of the group to get any?

[holidaysong]

I wonder will this be retrograded, so we may have to work out totally different co-efficients for countries and clubs

When they changed from 50% of national coefficient to 33% in 2004 changes were made retrospectively. However, it wasn't that radical a change.

[Dodge]

Yeah, I was talking more about the points for rounds rather than individual results (as well as the bonuses etc etc)

[gspain]

I think the points for the rounds reached is actually fairer.

If you do better and then get your clubs exempt from a round you actually lose the chance to gain coefficient points.

It also eliminates the danger of points being gained from a dead match. FH recently drew at Villa Park having lost the home leg 4-1. Without seeing the game I think it is still fair to assume that Villa weren't trying as hard as they would have been had they won 1-0 away.

[bigmac]

The change to earning coefficients based on the tie result rather than individual games is good, and the bonus points should help to stop the up and down yoyo efffect that we have been worried about should the league continue its rise. It will be interesting to see how the changes are absorbed into the current system, but I suspect that they have tweaked the numbers so that similar campaigns will earn similar points.

[bigmac]

We've had this before, and didn't we decide that 30th will be our seeding for next season, but access and starting rounds will be based on 35th for next year?

What he said ^^^^

Access is already decided Champions into CL Q1, Cup Winners into Europa thingy Q3 and 2nd & 3rd in the league into Q1.

[finnpark]

All those years of trying to understand the system lost with one stroke of the pen by Platini (

With Mattews in charge Cork will be ranked as low as Harps soon :D

I don't think Cork supporters need to worry about the cost of travelling for the foreseeable future. :D

[Saint_Charlie]

Did our draw last night give us much points? .333 was it?

[Dazzy]

Did our draw last night give us much points? .333 was it?

Pats now have the same amount as Derry and Shels.

[gspain]

Did our draw last night give us much points? .333 was it?


.333 for the national coefficient but 1 point for your club coefficent. This would previously have been zero under the current system. If the current system remains in place then you will have this for 5 years and will be very valuable as regards seeding.

[holidaysong]

Below are the points for reaching the various rounds in qualifying next year which I've taken from the forum on Bert's site.. As has been stated previously in this thread, the points in qualifying are gained by reaching the relevant round and are non-cumulative. As well as going towards the national coefficient, they will also yield club points for each team.


Champions League

CLQ1 - 0.50
CLQ2 - 1.00
CLQ3 - nothing - as all teams who lose here go to ELQ4
CLQ4 - nothing - as all teams who lose here go to EL Group Stage
CL Group Stage - 4.00

Europa League

ELQ1 - 0.25
ELQ2 - 0.50
ELQ3 - 1.00
ELQ4 - 1.50
EL Group Stage 2.00

Note that CLQ1 is a new round that will include only the 6 lowest ranked champions. Bohemians therefore will enter at CLQ2. (Bert called these rounds CLQ0 and CLQ1 on his site previously but has since changed it to (http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/access2009.html) include a CLQ4)..

[MariborKev]

Not really a coefficient question but....

City are now in the Cup Final, Bohs have already qualified for the Champions League. The Cup winners go into the 2QR of the UEFA Cup, so for the process of qualification do we take this spot or does it go the 2nd in the League?

[holidaysong]

Not really a coefficient question but....

City are now in the Cup Final, Bohs have already qualified for the Champions League. The Cup winners go into the 2QR of the UEFA Cup, so for the process of qualification do we take this spot or does it go the 2nd in the League?

Yes, Derry City will take the Europa League spot for the FAI Cup so you will enter one round after the two qualifiers from the league - St. Pat's and whoever comes fourth (assuming they have a licence).

[TheBoss]

I think you are wrong here:

Derry City must win the FAI Cup to get that place, if they do not win, than St Pats get it. Its a new rule that UEFA have put in, the team must win the Cup in order to avail of the place.

[holidaysong]

I think you are wrong here:

Derry City must win the FAI Cup to get that place, if they do not win, than St Pats get it. Its a new rule that UEFA have put in, the team must win the Cup in order to avail of the place.

I'm 99% sure that the rule about having to win the cup to get the place was proposed but never actually implemented. That is the reason why a win for Galway yesterday would have ensured them a Europa League place..

[fionnsci]

I think you are wrong here:

Derry City must win the FAI Cup to get that place, if they do not win, than St Pats get it. Its a new rule that UEFA have put in, the team must win the Cup in order to avail of the place.

I thought that came in next year?

[Heliodorus]

I'm 99% sure that the rule about having to win the cup to get the place was proposed but never actually implemented. That is the reason why a win for Galway yesterday would have ensured them a Europa League place..


Yes, thats correct. UEFA changed their minds.

[passerrby]

i think (not 100% sure ) that the rule was passed but not sure if it kicks in this season or next

[thischarmingman]

I thought that came in next year?

Yeah that was what I though too, it's only from next year.

[Heliodorus]

i think (not 100% sure ) that the rule was passed but not sure if it kicks in this season or next


Yeah that was what I though too, it's only from next year.

Derry do NOT need to win the FAI cup to qualify for the Europa Cup. UEFA changed their minds. http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/football/UEFA-Cup-revamped-and-rebranded.4535784.jp

[DmanDmythDledge]

So what's the story with next season's qualification? I think I have it right (as things stand):

CL- Bohs
UEFA (cup)- Derry
UEFA (L1)- Pats
UEFA (L2)- Sligo
Intertoto- Shamrock

[micls]

So what's the story with next season's qualification? I think I have it right (as things stand):

CL- Bohs
UEFA (cup)- Derry
UEFA (L1)- Pats
UEFA (L2)- Sligo
Intertoto- Shamrock

Theres no intertoto.

Also it depends if we get a Uefa license or not. Hasnt been clarified if we're automatically banned for 3 years.

I expect we wont get one but its not certain

[OneRedArmy]

If Bohs do the double and Pats finish second, my understanding is that Pats will enter Europa Cup at QF2 and Derry at QF1. This is a distinct and different rule to whether the losing Cup finalists can enter Europe at all.

At least I think thats what Michael Hayes said in the Fans Forum.

Hopefully won't be necessary, although from a coefficient perspective, both Pats and Derry have the same club coefficient so there's no difference to seeding.

[Heliodorus]

Hopefully won't be necessary, although from a coefficient perspective, both Pats and Derry have the same club coefficient so there's no difference to seeding.

There actually is. If the breakof point between being seeded and not being seeded happens at a point where two teams have the same seeding co-efficient, preference is given to the club which gains entry to europe via the cup spot.

[OneRedArmy]

There actually is. If the breakof point between being seeded and not being seeded happens at a point where two teams have the same seeding co-efficient, preference is given to the club which gains entry to europe via the cup spot........and as stated above, that will be either Pats or Derry, who have the same club coefficient.....

[Heliodorus]

.......and as stated above, that will be either Pats or Derry, who have the same club coefficient.....

Derry have qualified for Europe. Runners up in the Cup are allowed into the Europea Cup. UEFA reversed their decision.

[OneRedArmy]

Derry have qualified for Europe. Runners up in the Cup are allowed into the Europea Cup. UEFA reversed their decision.I'm not disputing this, see below for my previous post.

My understanding (straight from the horses mouth) is that cup losers will qualify where League winner wins cup, but won't get into QF2, that privilege will revert to 2nd in the League. If you know different maybe you can tell me where you are getting your info from?


If Bohs do the double and Pats finish second, my understanding is that Pats will enter Europa Cup at QF2 and Derry at QF1. This is a distinct and different rule to whether the losing Cup finalists can enter Europe at all.

At least I think thats what Michael Hayes said in the Fans Forum.

[CuanaD]

Resurecting the Coef thread
Tonight's results are goos for the league - HJK were knocked out - so Finland and ourselves have just 2 representatives left.
& after tonights games I think we have just moved ahead of them on the 2010 access list:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2010.html
After the update I think Finland will have 9.124 points & Ireland will have 9.166 - moving us up to 29th provisionally.

[DmanDmythDledge]

If we get up to 29 we would have an extra team in the Europa Cup next season, entering at the 3rd qualifying round.

[holidaysong]

If we get up to 29 we would have an extra team in the Europa Cup next season, entering at the 3rd qualifying round.

No we wouldn't, we would need to get up to 15th to get an extra team into Europe. The next significant goal is 27th which would guarantee our Cup Winner entering at the QR3 of the Eurpopa League (29th would do if the title holder was already qualified - like how Derry got a 'bye' this year).

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/access2009.html

[DmanDmythDledge]

No we wouldn't, we would need to get up to 15th to get an extra team into Europe. The next significant goal is 27th which would guarantee our Cup Winner entering at the QR3 of the Eurpopa League (29th would do if the title holder was already qualified - like how Derry got a 'bye' this year).

http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/access2009.html
That's what I was looking at.

Does that not show four teams for 29th place at the moment?

[holidaysong]

That's what I was looking at.

Does that not show four teams for 29th place at the moment?

Yes, one CL and 3 EL. But we have that at the moment anyway.

The reason it shows two 'CW' spots though is because the title holder had already qualified so therefore the cup winners from 28th and 29th got a bye into EL QR3 - for the same reason that 'N2' of 35th (Derry City) and 36th got a bye into EL QR2.