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beautifulrock
17/08/2007, 8:36 AM
btw agree with ye shaker, was the fella that hit him french by any chance? sounds like again just targeted odriscoll knowning he is our main man, and i am serious about that. Playing a club team 3 weeks before the world cup is a joke, of course they are going to just pound away and hit cheap shots, paying a club team from the same country as our pool opponents is just stupid.
No he was not French, and the team needs to play. easy to be critical in hindsight but remeber the last bad injury we had was in a warm up game against Scotland a country not in our group. Injuries are part of rugby that is a fact. Teams need to play together that is another fact. It was widely touted as a great idea when first mentioned. BOD will be fine thankfully but I would be very surprised if we or any other team who gets to a quarter final without an injury to at least one of their key player.
He was hit by "Mikaera Tewhata" Doesn't sound too French
shakermaker1982
17/08/2007, 8:51 AM
5 players if I remember rightly got sin binned last night. That wasn't a game of rugby it was war!
This is from today's independent:
Bayonne bruiser Richard Dourte had gleefully exclaimed his vengeful motivations in yesterday morning's edition of L'Equipe.
Recalling his last international appearance against Ireland, a 15-12 defeat six years ago, Dourthe chillingly expressed the thought that "if Ireland have to play without Brian O'Driscoll, it is better for us."
Neil Best loves those types of games though!!!
OneRedArmy
17/08/2007, 9:10 AM
No he was not French, and the team needs to play. easy to be critical in hindsight but remeber the last bad injury we had was in a warm up game against Scotland a country not in our group. Injuries are part of rugby that is a fact. Teams need to play together that is another fact. It was widely touted as a great idea when first mentioned. BOD will be fine thankfully but I would be very surprised if we or any other team who gets to a quarter final without an injury to at least one of their key player.
Spot on.
Its an attritional game, and moreso than it ever was.
Given O'Driscoll's injury record I'm not sure why we expect to have him fit for a run of games anyway!
Torn-Ado
17/08/2007, 9:18 AM
Spot on.
Its an attritional game, and moreso than it ever was.
Given O'Driscoll's injury record I'm not sure why we expect to have him fit for a run of games anyway!
Exactly.
O Driscoll could be wrapped up in a ton of cotton wool walking down the street and he'd still manage to injure himself.
paul_oshea
17/08/2007, 9:33 AM
Recalling his last international appearance against Ireland, a 15-12 defeat six years ago, Dourthe chillingly expressed the thought that "if Ireland have to play without Brian O'Driscoll, it is better for us."
thank you and good night.
shakermaker1982
17/08/2007, 9:50 AM
I was (still am) in favour of the two other pre WC warm up games against Scotland and Italy because they have as much to lose as we do were they to go gung ho but Bayonne?
People make out BOD is injury prone but he's had a dislocated shoulder over on the Lions tour (that sphere tackle would have crushed a lesser man) and he had a dodgy hamstring during last seasons 6N. Other than that there is nothing to suggest that he should be classifed as a Johny Wilko/Darren Anderton type of player.
joeSoap
17/08/2007, 9:58 AM
The decision to play Bayonne was astounding to say the least. A French club side, in France, with players from Argentina in their ranks! What the f**k did he expect. Denis Leamy looks like he could miss the World Cup now. And boy is he going to be a loss.Plus, now you're going to have guys going out against Italy now with doubts in their minds, and God only knows what injuries you pick up when you're not focused.
Shambles. O'Sullivan has a lot to answer for.
A couple of possible injuries & Irelands WC hopes evaporate. Puts in perspective the talk of WC Final & even winning the competition. :rolleyes:
Ireland have far too many key players that there is no backup for - Hayes, O'Connell, Wallace, O'Gara. O'Driscoll. Humphreys should have been asked to come out of retirement & he should have brought another specialist open side franker.
Due to the way the games are arranged O'Sullivan does not have many chances of resting players as he needs them to be match fit for the 3rd pool game.
geysir
17/08/2007, 11:04 AM
The decision to play Bayonne was astounding to say the least. A French club side, in France, with players from Argentina in their ranks! What the f**k did he expect. Denis Leamy looks like he could miss the World Cup now. And boy is he going to be a loss.Plus, now you're going to have guys going out against Italy now with doubts in their minds, and God only knows what injuries you pick up when you're not focused.
Shambles. O'Sullivan has a lot to answer for.
Isn't hindsight wonderful, the injury possibility was mentioned before in the thread and only Shakermaker asked the injury Q.
paul_oshea
17/08/2007, 11:55 AM
geysir just cos it wasn't asked doesnt mean we couldn't/didnt think it.
Playing a club team is silly in my opinion. Playing italy and scotland made far more sense.
Dodge
17/08/2007, 12:02 PM
They wanted a game in their "warm weather" training. No others were available. if it wasn't for one punch, it'd be forgotten already
paul_oshea
17/08/2007, 12:09 PM
They wanted a game in their "warm weather" training. No others were available. if it wasn't for one punch, it'd be forgotten already
and 5 yellow cards, and leamy and: http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2007/0817/ireland.html and shakermakers comment etc etc.
To be honest i think we are lucky there werent more casualties/more severe ones, when i heard of the bayonne match ( which i admit was only last saturday ) I said to my flat mate (mad rugby supporter PBS fella) that it was madness he agreed entirely. First thing he asked me when he got home last night "was their any injuries from the match?!". I thought he was on about drogheda :D
But we can agree to differ dodge ;)
Dodge
17/08/2007, 12:20 PM
I wasn't mad about it eithr POS. I'm just making the point that if it wasn't for that one punch, it'd have been nothing. Leamey will be grand and the rest of it was just rugby...
shakermaker1982
17/08/2007, 12:35 PM
How optimistic are you lads on our chances? We are in the group of death and if we finish 2nd then it's New Zealand in the Q finals......but if we beat France then I really think we can go all the way to the final.
paul_oshea
17/08/2007, 12:59 PM
dont forget argentina, france have only beaten them at home once ( granted latest one ) in 3 previous meetings. Seriously dont underestimate them.
For a selfish reasaon id like to see them as runners up, solely because i have a ticket for the quarters in cardiff, but if you can assure me shaker that they will get to the final if they top the group then Ill do my bit for my country and be selfless :D
OneRedArmy
17/08/2007, 1:11 PM
I was (still am) in favour of the two other pre WC warm up games against Scotland and Italy because they have as much to lose as we do were they to go gung ho but Bayonne?
People make out BOD is injury prone but he's had a dislocated shoulder over on the Lions tour (that sphere tackle would have crushed a lesser man) and he had a dodgy hamstring during last seasons 6N. Other than that there is nothing to suggest that he should be classifed as a Johny Wilko/Darren Anderton type of player.I think you are referring to a "spear" tackle (a sphere tackle is something one does on a dance floor circa 2am). And that wasn't a spear tackle, a spear tackle involves being driven, with force into the ground headfirst. BOD's was on his back. The only reason it was marginal was because he was nowhere near the ball.
Agree that the Bayonne match was a dodgy one to pick but the Georgians or the other lot we play (Namibia?) are as likely to have knacked him as well.
As for his injuries, has the hammy not hit him a couple of times previously and he does spend a lot of time down in matches as well. Not suggesting he's a sicknote rather that like Wilko, he puts his body on the line so much.
Schumi
17/08/2007, 1:14 PM
The only reason it was marginal was because he was nowhere near the ball.I don't think this is true. He was dropped from a height when afaik the rules say that the tackler has to hold onto him until he's on the ground when tackling like that.
OneRedArmy
17/08/2007, 1:15 PM
now you're going to have guys going out against Italy now with doubts in their minds, and God only knows what injuries you pick up when you're not focused.
Shambles. O'Sullivan has a lot to answer for.How much rugby have you ever played?
You're so far from the truth its unreal.
In modern rugby injuries happen in every game.
If your approach was adopted the game would die.
Get a grip FFS!
OneRedArmy
17/08/2007, 1:18 PM
I don't think this is true. He was dropped from a height when afaik the rules say that the tackler has to hold onto him until he's on the ground when tackling like that.He was driven onto his back with downward pressure IIRC.
It was probably a penalty, nopthing more, but the mass wailing and gnashing off teeth from people who don't know jack about rugby and can't hack contact sports was ridiculously OTT.
paul_oshea
17/08/2007, 1:21 PM
a sphere tackle is something one does on a dance floor circa 2am
i reckon that it could have been in the shape of a sphere to they completly turned him round in the shape of a sphere :D
beautifulrock
17/08/2007, 1:29 PM
I think we should have two threads for the Rugby World Cup, one specifc to Ireland and one for the rest of the games. I cant wait for it to start.:)
shakermaker1982
17/08/2007, 1:29 PM
[QUOTE=OneRedArmy;748701]I think you are referring to a "spear" tackle (a sphere tackle is something one does on a dance floor circa 2am). And that wasn't a spear tackle, a spear tackle involves being driven, with force into the ground headfirst. BOD's was on his back. The only reason it was marginal was because he was nowhere near the ball.QUOTE]
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.rugbyheaven.smh.com.au/ffximage/2005/10/26/odriscollspear.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.rugbyheaven.smh.com.au/news/off-the-field/odriscoll-spear-tackle-stoush-explodes-again/2005/10/26/1130302822880.html&h=261&w=200&sz=12&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=PPJpHYUYuwJo9M:&tbnh=112&tbnw=86&prev=/images%3Fq%3Do%2Bdriscoll%2Bspear%2Btackle%26svnum %3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den
if that wasn't a spear (sorry I was typing quick this morning and didn't spot my error) tackle I don't know what is. As you can see from the picture he was going head/front first. He might have ended up on his back at the end but that's probably because he rolled over. Every media outlet and rugby writer reported it as a spear tackle and BOD describes it as that in his book as well.
Schumi
17/08/2007, 1:41 PM
There's footage of the 'tackle' here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4ncc7vSW7U). Skip to near the end, O'Driscoll clearly lands on his head.
They didn't drop him though, my memory must be a little hazy.
shakermaker1982
17/08/2007, 1:43 PM
There's footage of the 'tackle' here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4ncc7vSW7U). Skip to near the end, O'Driscoll clearly lands on his head.
They didn't drop him though, my memory must be a little hazy.
I'm blocked at work :mad: probably for the best though!
Schumi
17/08/2007, 1:44 PM
I'm blocked at work :mad:
X4ncc7vSW7U
Does this work?
shakermaker1982
17/08/2007, 1:51 PM
I'm still blocked Schumi but cheers anyway. I'll have a look when I get on web at home this weekend.
OneRedArmy
17/08/2007, 2:02 PM
The spear originated in rugby league, I'll drag up some proper spears from Youtube over the weekend and post.....
nancy boys etc :D
geysir
17/08/2007, 2:25 PM
geysir just cos it wasn't asked doesnt mean we couldn't/didnt think it.
Playing a club team is silly in my opinion. Playing italy and scotland made far more sense.
Having a question is one thing, it's a cheap shot to use it after the fact when
nothing was mentioned here before the game and there were opportunities to do so, then slate the decision to play Bayonne as astounding and call EOS's decision making a shambles.
Rugby is a contact sport so players need to be match fit. The alternative is to tear lumps out of each other in full contact training... Ireland probably have two of the toughest teams in the their group in Argentina & France so a scrap was to some extent required.
He was driven onto his back with downward pressure IIRC.
It was probably a penalty, nopthing more, but the mass wailing and gnashing off teeth from people who don't know jack about rugby and can't hack contact sports was ridiculously OTT.
Absolute rubbish. Don't bother dragging up some neanderthal RL because it does nothing for your case. You don't need to know jack about rugby or play the sport to see that they did was ridiculous. If I saw it done on the field there would be reprecussions. Without wanting to be too melodramatic, he was lucky to get away with a dislocated shoulder. That was appaling
Stuttgart88
20/08/2007, 3:20 PM
It's all academic anyway.
Tom Humphreys will publish an interview with BOD just before the tournament, O’Sullivan will get upset and BOD will direct a 5 minute volley of abuse to O’Sullivan before storming out / being sent home saying “you can stick your World Cup up your ******”. Bertie will try and intervene but BOD will refuse to apologise when pressed by Tommy Gorman and he will subsequently will claim anti-Dublin bias at the Munster-ccentric IRFU. 5 years later he will go on to manage Sunderland RFC which will have been bought by Keith Wood and some publican friends.
Real ale Madrid
20/08/2007, 3:37 PM
does anyone know if the Connaught v South Africa game is going to be televised?
does anyone know if the Connaught v South Africa game is going to be televised?
Setanta Ireland Live.
shakermaker1982
21/08/2007, 9:04 AM
It's all academic anyway.
Tom Humphreys will publish an interview with BOD just before the tournament, O’Sullivan will get upset and BOD will direct a 5 minute volley of abuse to O’Sullivan before storming out / being sent home saying “you can stick your World Cup up your ******”. Bertie will try and intervene but BOD will refuse to apologise when pressed by Tommy Gorman and he will subsequently will claim anti-Dublin bias at the Munster-ccentric IRFU. 5 years later he will go on to manage Sunderland RFC which will have been bought by Keith Wood and some publican friends.
I'm siding with BOD. Who's with me?? :D
joeSoap
21/08/2007, 9:51 AM
How much rugby have you ever played?
You're so far from the truth its unreal.
In modern rugby injuries happen in every game.
If your approach was adopted the game would die.
Get a grip FFS!
A bit more than you I'd say. I've played Munster Schools, Munster Junior Cup and played Senior rugby in Limerick during the 90's.
In modern rugby guys no longer go out to deliberately take guys out like Tewahata did the other night. That crap was supposed to be left behind pre-1995 before professionalism. I have no problem with genuine injuries. I do have a problem playing a game where mindless violence and some journeyman decides to make a name for himself are on the agenda, which they always were by playing a French club side in France, pre world cup.
And you tell me to get a grip?:confused::rolleyes:
OneRedArmy
21/08/2007, 10:21 AM
A bit more than you I'd say. I've played Munster Schools, Munster Junior Cup and played Senior rugby in Limerick during the 90's.
In modern rugby guys no longer go out to deliberately take guys out like Tewahata did the other night. That crap was supposed to be left behind pre-1995 before professionalism. I have no problem with genuine injuries. I do have a problem playing a game where mindless violence and some journeyman decides to make a name for himself are on the agenda, which they always were by playing a French club side in France, pre world cup.
And you tell me to get a grip?:confused::rolleyes:My point wasn't about the wrongdoing (obvious that it was a serious officence) but your ridiculous point that
now you're going to have guys going out against Italy now with doubts in their minds, and God only knows what injuries you pick up when you're not focused.Just because BOD got a belt in the gob they will all go out like scaredy cats? That is completely nonsensical and you know it is.
He isn't the first or won't be the last to suffer similar foul play (off the top of my head I can remember Duncan McRae v O'Gara, O'Gara's choking last year and various stamping incidents). But it hasn't stopped Ireland going on to better performances!
Professional rugby has reduced the incidence of serious foul play but hasn't eradicated it.
Also, I agree that the Bayonne game wasn't ideally planned by the IRFU, it smacks (pardon the pun) of a dawning realisation that most of the other top northern hemisphere nations had a stronger warm-up schedule and they sought to arrange a match in a panic.
As for the wisdom of playing French opposition and the conspiracy theories around that,
a)He was hit by a Kiwi; and
b)Having been to Bayonne a few times, its not really in their nature to help the French national side. They are proudly Basque as a rugby club and as a people.
PS in answer to your question, I also played schools cup, universities and senior rugby.
joeSoap
21/08/2007, 10:39 AM
My point wasn't about the wrongdoing (obvious that it was a serious officence) but your ridiculous point that Just because BOD got a belt in the gob they will all go out like scaredy cats? That is completely nonsensical and you know it is.. It's not nonsensical. What it did was further heighten awareness in the camp as to how important certain individuals are and I never said they'd go out like scaredy cats...I said that at the back of their minds will be getting hit or injured and if you have that mentality the probability of it is greater...Big difference !
He isn't the first or won't be the last to suffer similar foul play (off the top of my head I can remember Duncan McRae v O'Gara, O'Gara's choking last year and various stamping incidents). But it hasn't stopped Ireland going on to better performances!.. O'Gara v McRae was a Lions Tour, not a World Cup and he was only a peripheral player on it. Anyway I fail to see how this sort of treatment inspires 'better performances'.
Professional rugby has reduced the incidence of serious foul play but hasn't eradicated it. .. By and large it has. Especially at International rugby and top level ERC games. Fines, suspensions and TMO's have seriously reduced incidents in todays game.
As for the wisdom of playing French opposition and the conspiracy theories around that,
a)He was hit by a Kiwi; .. He was hit by a journeyman trying to make a name for himself. No other reason. And as for the French conspiracy theory, did you read Richard Dourthe's interview before the match?
PS in answer to your question, I also played schools cup, universities and senior rugby.
That validates your opinion on spear tackling? Interesting
OneRedArmy
21/08/2007, 3:49 PM
That validates your opinion on spear tackling? Interesting
No, it answered joe soaps question.
paul_oshea
21/08/2007, 4:20 PM
onered, he never asked ye if ye played ;)
you felt the need to tell him!!
How much rugby have you ever played?
You're so far from the truth its unreal.
In modern rugby injuries happen in every game.
If your approach was adopted the game would die.
Get a grip FFS!
Its good to know you've played enough rugby to have a valid opinion
OneRedArmy
21/08/2007, 4:49 PM
onered, he never asked ye if ye played ;)
you felt the need to tell him!!Read the last few pages of the thread again.
I think you'll find you're wrong.
OneRedArmy
21/08/2007, 4:55 PM
Its good to know you've played enough rugby to have a valid opinionThat point was raised solely in the context of an opinion that O'Driscoll getting a slap in the gob would somehow make the Irish team more fearful/less confident against Italy.
That to me sounded like the view of someone who hadn't played rugby as I did and still do, find it absolutely preposterous. Joe confirmed that he had played a lot of rugby and stands by his point.....that makes me think he was a piano tuner rather than a piano lifter (to use Neil Francis vernacular) :D;) but no matter, we'll agree to differ.
As for spear tackling, I was a 6 foot 5 inch 20 stone secondrow and didn't get spear tackled much, so my playing experience didn't bring much to bear in terms of that point.
Hope that clears it up for you both....
joeSoap
21/08/2007, 6:15 PM
Joe confirmed that he had played a lot of rugby and stands by his point.....that makes me think he was a piano tuner rather than a piano lifter (to use Neil Francis vernacular) :D;) but no matter, we'll agree to differ. 6ft, 18 stone prop with fat hands actually...not much tuning going on there.
Aberdonian Stu
21/08/2007, 7:18 PM
Wow, this is a new way to attack the poster and not the post on both your parts. I really don't care who started it but it is time to end the one-upmanship on both your parts.
OneRedArmy
21/08/2007, 7:34 PM
I really don't care who started it but it is time to end the one-upmanship on both your parts.I'll bring it back on topic then so :D
Just heard Eddie O'Sullivan say on Off the Ball that Shane Horgan remains his back-up centre. When will he learn that Horgan is a world class wing and a poor centre.
The upside of Horgan's injury is that it will hopefully give Trimble a wonderful chance on Friday to show his worth.
Also very worrying about Wallace's injury. We don't have a lot of ball carriers in the pack and he will be sorely missed.
paul_oshea
22/08/2007, 8:24 AM
Wow, this is a new way to attack the poster and not the post on both your parts. I really don't care who started it but it is time to end the one-upmanship on both your parts.
I was going to say "love-in", but you know those rugby playing types and what they get up to stu ;)
joeSoap
22/08/2007, 8:34 AM
I was going to say "love-in", but you know those rugby playing types and what they get up to stu ;) You've obviously never been trapped in the 'inner-sanctum' on a Sunday afternoon in January in a very cold, muddy backwater in Limerick with some animal trying to relieve you of your baby-makers...some 'love-in' there.:D
Aberdonian Stu
22/08/2007, 8:53 AM
Yeah, yeah joe, now let us please get back on topic.
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