FAI proposals for future of Eircom League...

[Mr_T]

..with clubs today. Will be available on the FAI website tomorrow.

Some interesting stuff, including a means for junior clubs to be promoted to senior football, bigger prize money, the scoring system for entry to Premier Division 2007, 12 team premier for two years, going back to 10 in 2009.

Not seen full document yet so thats just a few main points. Gonna be a busy old day in here tomorrow.... :)

[BohDiddley]

Where's 'in here'?

[John83]

What the hell is this obsession with switching between 10 and twelve teams every two years? Pick one and stick with it.

[el punter]

What the hell is this obsession with switching between 10 and twelve teams every two years? Pick one and stick with it.

Yes, makes life very tricky for us dukes of statosphere

[Mr_T]

Where's 'in here'?

In This Forum?

[patcorr]

What is the obsession of switching the league format from 10/12 anyway? How many times have they done this, and for what benefit?

[WeAreRovers]

the scoring system for entry to Premier Division 2007

C'mon Mr T, put us out of our misery. Will Rovers be automatically promoted at the expense of certain non-entity fake-assed clubs in the greater Dublin area who may or may not have played in the single most embarrassing game ever played in senior Irish football last Monday night in Dalymount?

And do I get a prize for the length of that sentence?

Cheers & KOH

[chippie0001]

C'mon Mr T, put us out of our misery. Will Rovers be automatically promoted at the expense of certain non-entity fake-assed clubs in the greater Dublin area who may or may not have played in the single most embarrassing game ever played in senior Irish football last Monday night in Dalymount?

And do I get a prize for the length of that sentence?

Cheers & KOH

Only heard part of it but here goes. The criteria will be 50% based on off the pitch and 50% based on the pitch. The on the pitch will be standard uefa scoring for matchs played between 2001 and 2006 in all comps including European games. Not sure how it is scored.

Off the pitch will be based on infrastructure, licence requirements, attendance, youth set up and a couple of others I cannot remember. Also a wage cap of 65% of your income which in my view would end pro football in this country.

All the above may be crap, but what I was told.

[pineapple stu]

Don't have a problem with a wage cap myself - if clubs don't have the cop on to stick to budgets, someone has to force them to do it to avoid clubs continually getting into financial trouble (Harps, Galway, Rovers, Waterford...)

The rest, my views are well known on. The FAI are about to be responsible for giving many more people reason to mock the league and for it being dragged through the mud, court cases, etc. Increased prize money probably thrown in there as a distraction.

Any word on how the vote is likely to go? I understand it needs 2/3rds majority to pass? Is that likely? 4 teams refused to vote for the vote, which is almost half way to the entire prosposal collapsing.

[chippie0001]

The winners will get €235k I think and over €100k for second so a big increase in prize money. No idea when the vote will be but it needs a large majority. I heard that UCD will take court action if this is to happen and I would personally agree. Any issues unless someone cheats should be resolved on the pitch.

I have no issue with a wage cap, but I doubt many clubs have a turnover over €1m, thats only €650k on wages, no where near enough to sustain pro football which is why they are making the change. The logic seems flawed.

[pineapple stu]

So is your objection based more on the percentage than on the principle?

If clubs are going broke as often as they are (Dublin City probably next in line after seeing them on Monday; forgot about Shels as well of course), then the current situation is also nowhere near enough to sustain pro football either. Plus, it's unfair on those who budget properly and stay out of financial trouble to be beaten by clubs being run irresponsibly (though I suppose I'm a bit biased there).

[chippie0001]

So is your objection based more on the percentage than on the principle?

If clubs are going broke as often as they are (Dublin City probably next in line after seeing them on Monday; forgot about Shels as well of course), then the current situation is also nowhere near enough to sustain pro football either. Plus, it's unfair on those who budget properly and stay out of financial trouble to be beaten by clubs being run irresponsibly (though I suppose I'm a bit biased there).

No you are getting me wrong, I think the idea of a wage cap is right. What baffles me is that a proper wage cap, that is controlled will all but end pro football. So why do all this unless they plan to massively increase turnover at least double it. Also I doubt the FAI have the intelligence to stop the brown envelopes.

[pineapple stu]

I'm confused. Clubs going broke will stop pro-football too. It's up to clubs to increase turnover and ensure they can afford professional players. You seem to be arguing for and against a wage cap in the space of a few words...?

Agree with the brown envelopes obviously.

[chippie0001]

I'm confused. Clubs going broke will stop pro-football too. It's up to clubs to increase turnover and ensure they can afford professional players. You seem to be arguing for and against a wage cap in the space of a few words...?

Agree with the brown envelopes obviously.
I agree with a wage cap simple as that. What I don't get is how genisus and the FAI will deliver pro football with this restriction thats all. If this is enforced properly clubs will have to cut back and that seems the opposite to what they want.

[pineapple stu]

What I don't get is how genisus and the FAI will deliver pro football with this restriction that's all. If this is enforced properly clubs will have to cut back and that seems the opposite to what they want.
The idea, presumably, is that business would be happier to get involved with financially sound entities, that negative media arising from yet another bankruptcy would be averted and that the league would be able to move forward at a steady pace rather than one club flying forward (Bohs, Shels, Pat's, etc in recent years) and then going broke and taking as many steps back as they took forward.

If this is enforced properly, it will have the exact effect the FAI want it to have - it'll promote stability in the clubs. If it turns out that the eL can't currently support professional football, that's unfortunate. It's not exactly supporting it now.

[John83]

a wage cap in our league is the most ridiculous thing imaginable, how will we ever get any reasonably good players over here if they dont get paid well,obviously they will choose england
It's ridiculous to suggest that clubs should pay less than they take in? Now that is a ridiculous suggestion.

[thejollyrodger]

I think the FAI proposals wont be anything that brings a surprise.

I support a wage cap as long as its linked to the clubs income.

We need a prize of €1million for the winner of the league and €500,000 for the runner up to be honest.

[John83]

i think the option should be there, for example if we ever get to the stage where we could attract world class players, like henry attendances would increase significantly and clubs could therefore afford to pay their higher wages but if a wage-cap was enforced reasonably good players will never be interested in playing here and we wont move forward.
Players like Best and Keegan have played before on a percentage of gate receipts. There's nothing stopping that. I don't see us attracting a player like that unless he's in his last season or two anyway, which is hardly the way forward. At least, it wasn't the last time it happened.


If a club cant afford certain wages its up to them not to pay them not the league to tell them not to[/quote]
Clubs have persistantly shown themselves to be financially reckless. It's no harm to put a brake on that.

[pineapple stu]

Incidentally, if the proposal falls through, I think Delaney should resign.

Doubt hugely that that will happen, of course, but it should happen.

[pineapple stu]

This won't affect clubs who can afford what they're paying. That's the whole point (assuming the percentage chosen is reasonable).

[Bald Student]

I'd be more in favour of an expenditure cap set at 100% of income but I'm not opposed to a wage cap.

I don't really see the need to go back to 2001 to get aggregrate points. Teams that did well in the past have already been rewarded by winning the league or getting into europe or whatever, there's no need to reward them twice.

[DmanDmythDledge]

2001? Hmmm..before Dublin City were founded. Will they take Home Farm's old record or use this as an excuse to kick them out? Well I suppose either way they're f*ucked.

[Conor H]

Don't have a problem with a wage cap myself - if clubs don't have the cop on to stick to budgets, someone has to force them to do it to avoid clubs continually getting into financial trouble (Harps, Galway, Rovers, Waterford...)
.


:confused: Sorry?Could you expand.Im aware we are in debt,but aren't most clubs?Or is the usual UCD dig at Galway?

[DmanDmythDledge]

Or is the usual UCD dig at Galway?
What do you mean by usual? Could you give examples? Don't think there's precedence to that?

[Conor H]

What do you mean by usual? Could you give examples? Don't think there's precedence to that?

Trust me for a while UCD fans had a massive agenda against GUFC.Pineapple Stu will explain to you.
I'm not taring yee with the same brush,im sure yere sound,but certain UCD fans don't approve of Galway meeting Genesis or Galway getting put into the "elite league" next year which is utter rubbish.We have no devine right to get in and we know that,bar the fact that WE ARE THE BEST.:cool:

[Bald Student]

What do you mean by usual? Could you give examples? Don't think there's precedence to that?To be fair, I think there is. Pineapple had a big row with Galway fans on here about three months ago.

[Bald Student]

Trust me for a while UCD fans had a massive agenda against GUFC.Pineapple Stu will explain to you.
I'm not taring yee with the same brush,im sure yere sound,but certain UCD fans don't approve of Galway meeting Genesis or Galway getting put into the "elite league" next year which is utter rubbish.We have no devine right to get in and we know that,bar the fact that WE ARE THE BEST.:cool:Also, to be fair, his objection there was with Genesis not with Galway.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Well that was before my time so I wasn't aware of it.

[Conor H]

Point noted Bald student.
Don't mind it dmandmythdledge, there'll be plenty of time for arguements tomorrow when the proposals are announced!:D
But please leave the Galway boys alone!:o

[DmanDmythDledge]

Getting back on topic I think that results in the league should be the only criteria used. I think a mod should make a poll with this thread.

[Conor H]

Getting back on topic I think that results in the league should be the only criteria used. I think a mod should make a poll with this thread.
But then it would be the exact same as every other year?:confused:

[DmanDmythDledge]

Ye thats the way I think it should be left. Teams should be rewarded for their performances on the pitch. Teams are already rewarded by high crowds with more finances for example. As a supporter of a team that could possibly benefit if the proposal goes ahead what's your opinion on this ConorH?

[pineapple stu]

Wasn't there not financial trouble in Galway a few seasons back? If not, apologies. If so, it's another example of how forcing clubs to cop on to themselves would be good for the league.

You're only a young fella Conor, aren't you? Might have been before your time! ;)

Incidentally, having seen the system, I think it's quite disturbing that someone sat down to work this out. It's complete and utter ******. And that's not me being biased. You'll agree after reading it tomorrow!

[Conor H]

Ye thats the way I think it should be left. Teams should be rewarded for their performances on the pitch. Teams are already rewarded by high crowds with more finances for example. As a supporter of a team that could possibly benefit if the proposal goes ahead what's your opinion on this ConorH?


I haven't really got an opinion on it tbh,Simply because im not too sure what it entails.After tomorrow i'll express an opinion on it.
However i do think that league standings should be a considerable factor but not the only factor.

Stu-The more i think about it you're right.We were in trouble a few years bach but Salthill came to our rescue if you will.
As you said im not the most senior UTD fan on this board so perhaps Patrick Dunne or Terry could give you a better account.

[Roverstillidie]

Ye thats the way I think it should be left.

you would say that, your team are odds on for the chop.

[pineapple stu]

But then it would be the exact same as every other year?:confused:
Duhhh

[Conor H]

Duhhh

Well they're hardly going to announce
" In 2007 the league will be the exact same as every other year":rolleyes:
So have your cards in place folks!

[DmanDmythDledge]

you would say that, your team are odds on for the chop.
The ****ing cheek of you. ****ing ignornace as usual. Thats why in another thread I was saying Dublin City should be kept in the Premier- I don't think I support them. I believe in fairness and it just so happens that the team I support is one of the teams that could potentially screwed over. If the motion is passed it will lower the standard of the Premier Division. Fans like you are a disgrace to the Eircom League.

[pineapple stu]

Well they're hardly going to announce
" In 2007 the league will be the exact same as every other year":rolleyes:
So have your cards in place folks!
Sadly, yes. But my point is they should. It's worked every other season and in every other country in the world. Why not here and now?

dmanetc - RTID is a WUM. Ignore him.

[DmanDmythDledge]

dmanetc - RTID is a WUM. Ignore him.
Ye it's the best thing to do I just wanted to defend myself first.

[Terry]

Sadly, yes. But my point is they should. It's worked every other season and in every other country in the world. Why not here and now?

dmanetc - RTID is a WUM. Ignore him.
because when they finally get it right it will be the same year as when an eircom league club wins the champions league:rolleyes: otherwise they will continue to chop and change. I agree with ye and it should be down to preformances on the pitch only. To me, surely waterford have to be the in the boiling pot at the moment more so than anyone else.

[Roverstillidie]

The ****ing cheek of you. ****ing ignornace as usual. Thats why in another thread I was saying Dublin City should be kept in the Premier- I don't think I support them. I believe in fairness and it just so happens that the team I support is one of the teams that could potentially screwed over. If the motion is passed it will lower the standard of the Premier Division. Fans like you are a disgrace to the Eircom League.

how is it ignorance? we have done this to death (and as you say you are new) and the common perception is CHF and UCD are in trouble if delaney gets his way, with rovers, galway and possibly limerick passing them. i never said it was right.

it just so happens that the only people in a flap before anything was actually proposed were all ucd fans.

honsestly, you arent worried? the new stadium plans may be far too late to save you

[pineapple stu]

Funnily enough, I'd say Waterford have nothing to lose. They didn't vote for originally, but I can see them possibly changing come the vote. They're screwed under proper rules, but they're in a city and have a relatively decent recent record, so they might be tempted to vote for on the grounds that nothing worse than relegation will happen them anyway. Possibly the same for Bray.

[dcfcsteve]

a wage cap in our league is the most ridiculous thing imaginable, how will we ever get any reasonably good players over here if they dont get paid well,obviously they will choose england

And how will we ever keep reasonable players over here if we don't actually have the means to pay for them....?

Think about it - you're suggesting that there should be no relation between a club's income and the amount it is willing to spend on players. The kind of thing that Leeds United used to do when they were in the English Premiership.

As an analogy, it would like some fella working on minimum wage complaining that he can't get the credit to buy a Porsche, a fancy big house, flash suits etc etc and saying 'But how will I ever attract a glamorous wife without being able to pay for these things'. The real question is, how would you ever hope to hang-on to such a glamorous wife once the money ran out...! *

* Apologies for the momentary 'Swiss Tony' Impression....

[dcfcsteve]

Incidentally, if the proposal falls through, I think Delaney should resign.

Doubt hugely that that will happen, of course, but it should happen.

Why ? :confused: Should the leaders of the FAI not be allowed to propose any changes to Irish football without fear of losing their job ? :eek:

That'd be one way of ensuring terminal inertia.

[pineapple stu]

I don't think his position would be tenable when he's actively trying to favour some clubs over others while directly flouting UEFA Fair Play statutes. If the vote were to go against him, we'd know at least 1/3rd of the clubs wouldn't share his vision for the future, so it'd be a kind of vote of no confidence.

[dcfcsteve]

I don't think his position would be tenable when he's actively trying to favour some clubs over others while directly flouting UEFA Fair Play statutes. If the vote were to go against him, we'd know at least 1/3rd of the clubs wouldn't share his vision for the future, so it'd be a kind of vote of no confidence.

Firstly - the FAI and the EL are in-effect a federation of different elements within Irish football. So, you're suggesting that if even a small minority (one third) of the members of that federation disagree with any particular policy suggested by any particular leader, he should be made to walk ?? Do you know any organisations whatsoever (e.g. trade unions, political parties) who follow such a ridiculous approach to decision making ? It would totally stifle any form of chnage or progress at an instance, and completely emasculate leadership.

And how exactly is Delaney actively trying to favour some clubs over others ? He may well be actively favouring criteria that he believes are for the future benefit of the game in Ireland - and I'm sure many fans would broadly agree with him on those. But to suggest that he is deliberately cutting the cards to work against certain specific teams is paranoid.

Finally - how is he directly flouting FIFA Fair Play statutes ? A lot of leagues have off-the-field criteria that must be met to belong in certain divisions. The French have the most brutal example. There is a broadly accepted principle within football that a club's presence at the senior table shouldn't be solely about their on-field performances. Once that principle is established under any criteria (e.g. stadia, financial controls etc) it is equally as valid for any other off-the-field criteria. The genie has long been out of the bottle here.

I think you're letting your hatred of such proposals colour your judgement and translate into bitterness towards the architect of them.

[Bald Student]

A lot of leagues have off-the-field criteria that must be met to belong in certain divisions.The difference between that and the current proposal is that once a team meets the off-the-field criteria it competes equally with the other qualifying teams. That's very different to saying that 'x' number of seats in the stadium is worth 'y' league points.

I agree with you though that there's no point in expecting a resignation.

[dcfcsteve]

The difference between that and the current proposal is that once a team meets the off-the-field criteria it competes equally with the other qualifying teams. That's very different to saying that 'x' number of seats in the stadium is worth 'y' league points.

I agree with you though that there's no point in expecting a resignation.

What current proposal ??? Nothing has been announced yet.

[Danny]

from todays sun

All clubs recieved the proposals yesterday
12 Team league in 2007
10 Team in 2008

Reserve 'A' League
U21 Winter League

League cup Winners v 1st Division winners for a place in Setanta Cup

Prize Fund up from 230k to 450k a year.

League Structure based on following criteria

50% on the field sucess - 20% on this season, 30% over last 5 seasons
10% on Infastructure
15% on Uefa License
15% on Sustainablity and Future Plans
10% on Location