Perth sacked

[pineapple stu]

Why would the UEFA money go to P6?

It would go to Dundalk surely? P6 may own Dundalk, but that doesn't mean they would get paid the UEFA money. Dundalk FC is a separate legal entity.

[oriel]

UEFA usually pay to national fa first, then they distrbute to clubs, once that's in the DFC account, nothing stopping P6 taking it out or at least accessing it.

[pineapple stu]

Well that's not what you said originally.

And taking money out of Dundalk is the exact opposite of investing in the club, so I still would question your suggestion that "P6 can easily absorb this". They don't seem to be putting anything into the club. (Which is their right, of course)

[EalingGreen]

Your picking me up wrong , i have respect for the badges and am often struck at my local junior club at the difference in coaching the kids get from coaches "with badges " who have had some training and dads who are helping out.
My issue is that at a professional club where qualified coaches are employed as they are at DFC saying the manager has to have a badge to manage is BS.
What does it achieve?
If the principle applies at lower levels, why not also at higher levels (where the demands are correspondingly higher)?

If a club was appointing someone to another technical position eg a Director of Finance, they might already have a highly experienced candidate in their Accounts Dept, who is a whizz at reading a balance sheet etc, but would you really appoint him/her over a Certified/Chartered Acccountant?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fai-boss-scores-own-goal-on-qualifications-szr6k0w8v

[Nesta99]

FIFA, UEFA, FAI bending rules when it suits...naahhh! Delaney must be the only person on the planet that slogged through the borefest of professional accounting exams and not complete the formality of joining CAI or the like, as if he'd give up the opportunity for pomp and ceremoney. Certified sh!tebag if he is lucky!

Minimum standards in coaching are needed, but there should be some common sense too. FG's entire career has been playing and coaching and arguably has more contact hours with players than some pro badge holders. A sports science grad could have a pro licence by early 20s having never been involved in the game. Cheeky it may be in principle but job titles can mean damn all with FG listed as an assistant. Its often said that assistant coaches are often the brains behind a successful team Shakespeare with Ranieri, Long/Croly. Coaching teams where a member of the team has the top qualification would suffice imo. Such would be common in any industry where things/work gets signed off by someone with seniority. My angle on this is not based on just Dundalk's coaching setup - i'm sure there is no shortage of people who have experienced the clueless chief!?

Nobody knows the finances at DFC, all the usual speculation. Maybe some of the investors have called in a dividend. If all euro money has been spent on players, YDC, covering covid costs etc then yeah P6 would be paying the fine. We dont know if the club was sold to P6 with the cash reserve from 2016 or whether the Fastfix lads withdrew the money beforehand, if they did then its nearly all be P6 money bankrolling things. P6 would of course get their hands on UEFA money via Dundalk FC but lets not forget either that the FAI did their best to siphon off money allocated by UEFA for Dundalk so maybe it goes direct to the club now - 6 of one and all that. Taking money out of the club Stu would be what investors would want and do surely as opposed to a benefactor. Probably Derry and Pats are really only the ones that could fall in to not seeming to look for a return - yet?

[pineapple stu]

Minimum standards in coaching are needed, but there should be some common sense too. FG's entire career has been playing and coaching and arguably has more contact hours with players than some pro badge holders.
Coaching the AC Milan summer camps for kids is no substitute for coaching senior professional players in fairness.


Nobody knows the finances at DFC, all the usual speculation. Maybe some of the investors have called in a dividend. If all euro money has been spent on players, YDC, covering covid costs etc then yeah P6 would be paying the fine. We dont know if the club was sold to P6 with the cash reserve from 2016 or whether the Fastfix lads withdrew the money beforehand, if they did then its nearly all be P6 money bankrolling things. P6 would of course get their hands on UEFA money via Dundalk FC but lets not forget either that the FAI did their best to siphon off money allocated by UEFA for Dundalk so maybe it goes direct to the club now - 6 of one and all that. Taking money out of the club Stu would be what investors would want and do surely as opposed to a benefactor. Probably Derry and Pats are really only the ones that could fall in to not seeming to look for a return - yet?
Let's not obfuscate things with "We don't know the finances". Though I will note that there's no reason for Fastfix to take money out of the club before selling it, because the cash in the club is part of what P6 were buying, so you're just robbing Peter to pay Paul, probably at a higher tax rate.

oriel's posts were -


50k is a still a big fine whatever way its dressed up, but P6 can easily absorb this, however it might be 50k less invested into the team for 2021.
There's no indication P6 have invested anything into the club. I'm curious to know if they have or not, but it's never been shown that they've put a penny into the club. The club accounts just show the Euro money being eaten into.


Certainly question mark over what they paid, however they would have had to buy out the previous joint owners
Buying out the previous owners isn't investing.


What I meant on absorb, the gross monies due from UEFA will be paid to P6
That's simply not true.


UEFA usually pay to national fa first, then they distrbute to clubs, once that's in the DFC account, nothing stopping P6 taking it out or at least accessing it.
P6 can take money out through a dividend or a rental charge or whatever - but that's also not investing in the club.

So I'm just saying oriel seems to be wrong in everything he's posted. As I say, there's no point getting all "We don't know the finances" over things as straightforwardely incorrect as the above.

[Nesta99]

I will totally admit the fudging of whatever the P6/DFC financial setup is. Im certainly not comparing to Manchester United just simply on scale but its a great situation to be able to leverage costs on a club and 'investors' have very limited exposure. In our case in hope of a low costbase with a potential high return and maybe grow a brand hence value IF theres are ever the chance of selling again for more. Its obviously been an ongoing concern, how much P6 are spending if at all, certainly not in areas that fans would also like to see. Imo the 2016 EL money is gone, P6 got an unexpected top up this year but are now having to dip in to their own pockets for a while at least. They wont say anything else but are still on the line of this being a long term project.

I was being more generalised in terms of coaching licences so maybe should have just left FG out of it. But the point is still that while there does need to be some standardisation/minimum requirements, there are coaches with pro licences that would not be classed as particularly good. There are examples in relatively recent DFC history where FG (so far) has shown more than others with top football and other relevant qualifications. I think a coaching team where members have the required badges should be sufficient, as is often the case in any industry. pro badge does not always = professional. That said I do accept that if rules are in place even if i disagree, they should be followed. Dispensation options again imo should be available. If there were pro licence courses being run where there is always capacity then grand, strictly apply those rules. It think its a bit harsh to dismiss FGs background in the game as AC Milan summer camp coach. It's still an appointment out of left field but he must have shown somthing aong the line and how the players have responded to him just adds to my thinking on that. If we are seriously struggling next season having also struggled to recruit/resign players I will retract the above. The Jim Magilton connection is likely due to an awareness that while FG might be a good hands on coach, he may not have 'managerial' experiance.

[EalingGreen]

I was being more generalised in terms of coaching licences so maybe should have just left FG out of it. But the point is still that while there does need to be some standardisation/minimum requirements, there are coaches with pro licences that would not be classed as particularly good.

Maybe so.

But while I'm not saying it was relevant to DFC appointing Giovagnoli, it is also true that Coaches with all the requisite badges command a higher salary than those without.



The Jim Magilton connection is likely due to an awareness that while FG might be a good hands on coach, he may not have 'managerial' experiance.
JM has many qualities which could make him a great appointment in the right role.

But if it were me, I wouldn't let him near a first team squad (unless, perhaps, he was reporting to Michael O'Neill?)

[Nesta99]

Fair point, I never considered a budgetry aspect to Head Coach/managerselection. It'd be strange to appoint a cheaper option when also busting cash reserves to get at more european money though. It just makes more sense to me that someone in the game thought FG had shown somthing and could be a success. A cheap gamble maybe. He may have been a short term solution until he actually hit the targets set so offered, still only a 1 year deal it seems. I was thinking that appointing Magilton could be to look after things like contracts as identified by FG as players to retain or sign. His background in development is an area the club needs a lot of work on in terms of an academy, community links, staffing etc. If that can be mixed with GM type duties with eg Martin Connolly it could work ok as an off the pitch team. It would have to be an improvement on the micromanaging efforts from the US.

[Charlie Darwin]

Fair point, I never considered a budgetry aspect to Head Coach/managerselection. It'd be strange to appoint a cheaper option when also busting cash reserves to get at more european money though. It just makes more sense to me that someone in the game thought FG had shown somthing and could be a success. A cheap gamble maybe. He may have been a short term solution until he actually hit the targets set so offered, still only a 1 year deal it seems. I was thinking that appointing Magilton could be to look after things like contracts as identified by FG as players to retain or sign. His background in development is an area the club needs a lot of work on in terms of an academy, community links, staffing etc. If that can be mixed with GM type duties with eg Martin Connolly it could work ok as an off the pitch team. It would have to be an improvement on the micromanaging efforts from the US.
Could be your maverick chairman read an article about him on the internet?

[Mr_Parker]

It sounds from that article that what they're after is a General Manager - not a Director of Football :

"Asked what the new person's exact title would be, Hulsizer said: "Boss. I don't know how else to say it. I don't care if you call him the Pope of football in Dundalk, it doesn't matter. He will be there to boss."

"Whoever we choose they have to have business skills, football skills, football knowledge, football contacts, business contacts. We need somebody to run the club. I can't do it from the US. We haven't done a great job so far except qualifying for the Europa League."The new man's job will be to run the club. There should be no daily communication between the board of directors and the people running the club in Ireland."It needs to be organised and it's not. That will be his first mission."


interesting then to note that the frontrunner for the job is Jim Magilton, who currently is a coach with the IFA and just happens to have a Pro Licence.

It would be somewhat of a co-incidence if whoever gets the job has a Pro Licence. Even then, unless the person with the licence is actually the main coach and decision maker, then that does not cover the requirements. Though we have seen blind eyes being turned to that sort of thing before.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55228546

[oriel]

Coaching the AC Milan summer camps for kids is no substitute for coaching senior professional players in fairness.


Let's not obfuscate things with "We don't know the finances". Though I will note that there's no reason for Fastfix to take money out of the club before selling it, because the cash in the club is part of what P6 were buying, so you're just robbing Peter to pay Paul, probably at a higher tax rate.

oriel's posts were -


There's no indication P6 have invested anything into the club. I'm curious to know if they have or not, but it's never been shown that they've put a penny into the club. The club accounts just show the Euro money being eaten into.


Buying out the previous owners isn't investing.


That's simply not true.


P6 can take money out through a dividend or a rental charge or whatever - but that's also not investing in the club.

So I'm just saying oriel seems to be wrong in everything he's posted. As I say, there's no point getting all "We don't know the finances" over things as straightforwardely incorrect as the above.

You obviously have a lot of time on your hands PS, christ almighty. Only reading your comments now.

[oriel]

Good appointment in my view today by Dundalk with Magilton, this is exactly what was required, someone with good links to football all over Ireland, and probably UK. He should improve the set up as it was lacking badly lately, admin and no one local appeared to be in control or to have been tasked with running things. I think GV can learn a lot from him, and hopefully they can work well together.

Contracts will be JM no 1 task when he starts on Monday, although I've heard he has already told the club that one year deals wont wash (with most).

[placid casual]

Magiltons agent wields a lot of power in dundalk it would appear.

[Martinho II]

Magiltons agent wields a lot of power in dundalk it would appear.

Whos his agent Placid do you know?

[Yossarian]

Magiltons agent wields a lot of power in dundalk it would appear.

Unfortunately it looks that way and it now makes sense that Magilton got the job.

[Martinho II]

Unfortunately it looks that way and it now makes sense that Magilton got the job.

Considering JMs prev managerial credentials whats to stop him ousting PG if things go wrong? Im a bit suspicious of his motives imo.

[Mr_Parker]

Wether you agree with them or not, the rules are there to be complied with and these are the rules and regs signed up to by clubs.

There is no gloating, I am a Dundalk fan, and take no pleasure in highlighting such issues. However, these 'liberal' interpretation of the rules by the FAI have been going on for years.


So have the FAI finally started to apply the requirements correctly? Are Dundalk being forced to comply or is it yet another game of smoke and mirrors to cover licencing requirements?

https://extra.ie/2021/03/09/sport/soccernews/dundalk-coaching-team

[Nesta99]

You do like to perch on some high ground and have a good gloat Mr P! It could be the FAI instructing things but I find that a bit strange having had a license granted as surely it would be granted pending certain criteria. Other than that its just another madcap day at Oriel Park - keeps people engaged..........

[ger121]

They can say what they like in public to appear compliant but we know who will really be picking the team.

[sbgawa]

Bill ?

[Sonny]

Bill ?

He's booked in for the Kick Start 1 course in 2022!

[Dalymountrower]

Bradley letting the cat out of the bag in the Indo by revealing that it is the Dundalk Tea Lady that picks the team.
Pretty funny from him, in fairness.

[sbgawa]

Dundalk really do have the biggest budget, Tea Lady ...wow thats luxury these days.
Spoilt brats

[oriel]

Milk and one sugar please !

[Dalymountrower]

Chai Stadium.

[Sonny]

Bradley letting the cat out of the bag in the Indo by revealing that it is the Dundalk Tea Lady that picks the team.
Pretty funny from him, in fairness.

I think there's a bit of confusion here regarding Bradley's comments. Tea Boy is just Filippo's official role on the licensing application!

[Mr A]

I hope Filippo has his UEFA tAy license

[Eminence Grise]

She only picks the cup teams.

[DCSIL]

Dundalk really do have the biggest budget, Tea Lady ...wow thats luxury these days.
Spoilt brats

Don't Believe Rovers can't afford a Tea Lady. You Lyons.

[Nesta99]

Dundalk really do have the biggest budget, Tea Lady ...wow thats luxury these days.
Spoilt brats

Free tea and sandwiches it is too!!

[mcgonigle]

Bradser the master of mind games. I'd say Hoban is rattled now.

He should show a bit more respect to the tea lady, she did out fox him in December.

[Mr A]

Heard Perth on the radio last night. Jeez he's an awful dose.

[Redbull]

Milk and one sugar Daddy please ! *****

[Mr_Parker]

Hearing rumours of another managerial change at Dundalk in the coming months.

[sbgawa]

Hearing rumours of another managerial change at Dundalk in the coming months.

Well if its only a rumour spill the beans.

[2 Year Contract]

Well if its only a rumour spill the beans.

There's nothing worse than a “I won’t be sharing it, but I know something you’s don’t know” guy ;)

[mcgonigle]

Mr_Parker is correct, apparently the tea lady will be replaced by the Teamaster 3000

[sbgawa]

[QUOTE=mcgonigle;2070711]Mr_Parker is correct, apparently the tea lady will be replaced by the Teamaster 3000[/QUOTE


If your going to upgrade go for the Nespresso, smooth and silky finisher, according to the adds and i believe what i read in the papers

[Mr_Parker]

Hearing rumours of another managerial change at Dundalk in the coming months.

Mmmmmm

[Martinho II]

Mmmmmm

Wonder will VP ever return to mgt considerin his sour partings of the way at Dundalk? From hearing him in the media he does be across the water at matches so if he isnt a mgr maybe as coach?

[DCWA]

Gerard Lyttle ? How in hell has he got that job? Dundalk are a shambles (and this coming from a Derry man!)

[Mr_Parker]

Gerard Lyttle ? How in hell has he got that job? Dundalk are a shambles (and this coming from a Derry man!)

If confirmed, remember Lyttle was an assistant to Magilton in the IFA Club NI (elite youth coaching) set up and are mates.

[DCWA]

If confirmed, remember Lyttle was an assistant to Magilton in the IFA Club NI (elite youth coaching) set up and are mates.

Had no idea that’s what he was doing.

Not a good sign for Dundalk mind Magilton just sticking a mate in there (and being allowed to do so) In no way can that be considered a good appointment.

[Bucket]

Incredible to think of all the signings Dundalk have made from underage positions. First team manager, first team assistant manager and General manager all came from a juvenile job with the goal of stepping up to become a European club in Ireland. It's a bananas way to try to raise the bar

[oriel]

Local radio, LMFM now confirming FG and his assistant Rossi have left, and told the players this am.

Still nothing confirmed from DFC yet on all 3 leaving, or even Keegan on Friday.

[Dalymountrower]

Local radio, LMFM now confirming FG and his assistant Rossi have left, and told the players this am.

Still nothing confirmed from DFC yet on all 3 leaving, or even Keegan on Friday.

Is there room in Oriel on the Sean Connor wall of fame for three more portraits?

[D24Saint]

Watched an after match interview with Magilton. I wouldn’t particularly like the cut of his jib , he comes across as an abrasive character.

[D24Saint]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/0418/1210618-dundalks-legacy-is-a-mess-and-a-shell-of-a-ground/

I’m a fan of Cawley he is a decent bloke to talk to , but IMO this is Hyperbole.

[Nesta99]

Watched an after match interview with Magilton. I wouldn’t particularly like the cut of his jib , he comes across as an abrasive character.

He was smiling sweetly 'cause he hadnt a notion what had just happened or what to say about it!