Perth sacked

[Nesta99]

I would doubt that hosting Dundalk games would have been the primary focus. Funds generated by internationals, push to change the ownership model of the Aviva, a leg in the door to get at other FAI assets - they managed to keep very quiet that like every other moneybag people in LoI they had their eyes on land grabs and rezoning. While it its amusing (now that it hasnt happened) with United Park funding New Oriel but pure cheek!!

[CorribsideSteve]

They must be delusional if they thought they could justify hosting LOI games in the Aviva. What’s the max they would get every week even with neutrals 3 or 4 k.

Exactly. It reminds me of the time Limerick were playing out of Thomond. I think they got 3-4 k once. And that's half the capacity of the Aviva.

[Martinho II]

Had to do a double take when I read this piece. Wot was purpose of playing at the Aviva in 1st place and wot would happened to oriel?

[Nesta99]

They could run as many buses and trains that they liked but very few Dundalk fans would have used them as a boycott would probably have happened. Apart from the US franchise ways; while in the US it was a bit of a surprise that I found people thought nothing of driving 100s of Km to places eg various game. Even among Dundalk family in LA they had adapted to the scale of things. It could be a full day thing, setting off in the morning 3-4 hours drive, tailgate drinks and food at the stadium, then the game, then home. It was worth the effort for me as a novelty but not that much that I was willing to do it regularly. Peak6 likely see an hour of travelling as no big deal and would wonder what the fuss was about. Its partly the reason I would have shown little patience myself with say Cork and issues with travelling support but there's a UK dimension in that for me too.

They would undoubtedly have looked to change the clubs name if they thought it would increase revenue but I dont think it was a plan like moving a franchise. More a 'cheap' provision of a world class stadium, while fixing the moaning about lack of facilities at Oriel. The opportunism is interesting and maybe some of their proposals could have been given more attention. If it didnt create a conflict of interest (pardon the pun) and if true that BoI provided a €28mil loan for collateral of €200mil in assets then the ability of Peak6 to access financial provision on better terms may have been beneficial. Id like to know where the 200mil was calculated on the value of grounds mentioned. With that sort of money money potential the the FAI should sell all, replace them for a lot less money, possibly improving on existing facilities and still have more than €100mil to play with. Off topic I know but its a very strange article for a number of reasons and was posted in this thread.

[Philosophizer]

Americans definitely have a different idea of a long drive than we do - what with their wide open spaces, dirt cheap petrol and a culture where the car is king and dominates the design of the country. When I lived in Long Island i was surprised by how people would gladly drive 2-3 hrs to a nightclub!

[D24Saint]

Americans definitely have a different idea of a long drive than we do - what with their wide open spaces, dirt cheap petrol and a culture where the car is king and dominates the design of the country. When I lived in Long Island i was surprised by how people would gladly drive 2-3 hrs to a nightclub!

Found that strange myself , the local pub could over half an hour away in taxi and it seemed normal to them over there.

[Nesta99]

Found that strange myself , the local pub could over half an hour away in taxi and it seemed normal to them over there.

and what seemed like a fair fare becomes expensive when the tip is included x 2 trips there and back. In LA there is damn all public transport at all, the roads are all day like the M50 during rush hours untill out of the city. Different way of life that didnt appeal to me at all with 30km work commutes taking about 2 hours each way.

[DCSIL]

Dundalk players must be buzzing. All will receive a club branded water bottle, football and a certificate at the end of the weeks training.

And a game away from Europa League group stage bonuses.

[Mr_Parker]

Have I read the reports correctly that this guy doesn't hold a UEFA Pro Licence? Such issues may have been quietly swept away in the past by the FAI, but surely under the new whiter than white regime this will be a huge issue for Dundalk's UEFA Licence? :confused:


I know he's gone, but if that was their intention or similar, surely it wouldn't be allowed by the FAI/UEFA. Using someone else as cover may have been poorly disguised previously, but I can't believe it would be allowed again?


Interesting appointment. Very out there, but who knows how it'll go. He's a bit older than most for his first senior role, but you have to start somewhere. He has come across really well in his interviews so far, I thought.

Kenny did well in his first senior job and went on from there. Perth came to us from Malahide, so he hardly had the greatest coaching CV himself.

The bottom line is Perth had to go. The players hated him and it was getting worse as time went on. It's time for them to step up now. Hopefully they buy into what Filippo is doing and we can finish the season well. Hopefully we get a favourable draw in the EL too and get through at least one round.

Gill had to go too, really. He was still defending Perth to the players before and after the Sligo game. He really should have walked when Perth left considering they're buddies. Reynolds was probably sorry he joined at all.

Still, it's poor form by the club not to acknowledge Gill's contribution, especially after the way he exited back in 2008. They could have shown a bit of class and given him a good send off. They haven't even said he's left.

Presumably, Shane Keegan will remain on and fill the Pro Licence requirement. Never really took him seriously as a manager so hopefully he doesn't try to get too involved - just sit in the corner and realise your place as a box ticker.


That does not tick the box. The old FAI regime have turned a blind eye to this in the past. The FAI and the UEFA licensing regulations are clear. It will be a test of the new regime if they continue in the same way. Especially when such has been raised as a major concern in the context of the All Island competition proposals, since such a requirement is strictly enforced, along with other license requirements by the IFA.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2020/1117/1178632-dundalk-to-appoint-new-off-the-field-boss/

:barbershop_quartet_:barbershop_quartet_

[EatYerGreens]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2020/1117/1178632-dundalk-to-appoint-new-off-the-field-boss/

:barbershop_quartet_:barbershop_quartet_

It sounds from that article that what they're after is a General Manager - not a Director of Football :

"Asked what the new person's exact title would be, Hulsizer said: "Boss. I don't know how else to say it. I don't care if you call him the Pope of football in Dundalk, it doesn't matter. He will be there to boss."

"Whoever we choose they have to have business skills, football skills, football knowledge, football contacts, business contacts. We need somebody to run the club. I can't do it from the US. We haven't done a great job so far except qualifying for the Europa League."The new man's job will be to run the club. There should be no daily communication between the board of directors and the people running the club in Ireland."It needs to be organised and it's not. That will be his first mission."

[Longfordian]

Yes but they're also saying Giovagnoli will be in charge of the football side of things and he's still not qualified as far as I'm aware. It's a fair enough question as to whether and why the FAI/UEFA will allow that to continue.

Our own Daire Doyle and Drogs' Tim Clancy are both on the current Pro Licence course so I assume they'll be ok next year.

[sbgawa]

It sounds from that article that what they're after is a General Manager - not a Director of Football :

"Asked what the new person's exact title would be, Hulsizer said: "Boss. I don't know how else to say it. I don't care if you call him the Pope of football in Dundalk, it doesn't matter. He will be there to boss."

"Whoever we choose they have to have business skills, football skills, football knowledge, football contacts, business contacts. We need somebody to run the club. I can't do it from the US. We haven't done a great job so far except qualifying for the Europa League."The new man's job will be to run the club. There should be no daily communication between the board of directors and the people running the club in Ireland."It needs to be organised and it's not. That will be his first mission."

Would this be the second time the pope went to Dundalk?

[Nesta99]

Would this be the second time the pope went to Dundalk?

The Pope went to Drogheda, so this might be an ironic first.

[Mr_Parker]

It sounds from that article that what they're after is a General Manager - not a Director of Football :


interesting then to note that the frontrunner for the job is Jim Magilton, who currently is a coach with the IFA and just happens to have a Pro Licence.

It would be somewhat of a co-incidence if whoever gets the job has a Pro Licence. Even then, unless the person with the licence is actually the main coach and decision maker, then that does not cover the requirements. Though we have seen blind eyes being turned to that sort of thing before.

[Charlie Darwin]

interesting then to note that the frontrunner for the job is Jim Magilton, who currently is a coach with the IFA and just happens to have a Pro Licence.

It would be somewhat of a co-incidence if whoever gets the job has a Pro Licence. Even then, unless the person with the licence is actually the main coach and decision maker, then that does not cover the requirements. Though we have seen blind eyes being turned to that sort of thing before.
Shane Keegan has a pro license and is presumably not being moved on so they'd be sorted in either case until Giovagnoli can get himself on a course, which I'd imagine would be a formality for Dundalk with the FAI.

Shane is the manager listed for the Europa League games and you had the funny scenes of the cameras in Vienna zooming in on him when Giovagnoli is the one giving orders.

[Martinho II]

I wonder why is Shane Keegan not applying for the Dundalk job when he does have a Pro license?

[Nesta99]

Its all a strange arrangement tbh. FG was appointed in head hunted way. So there wasnt really a job to apply for. He happened to have the pro licence and didnt have to fall on his sword when VP was sacked. So his role as opposition analyst evolved to being from the bench where his licence was needed. He could keep the analyst role but also be on the bench for games.

[joey B]

I wonder why is Shane Keegan not applying for the Dundalk job when he does have a Pro license?

I'd say its because he's not very good!

[placid casual]

Is it worth giving the Italian guy the job, when it seems clear that stephen Kenny will be available at the end of march - or do dundalk fans believe he wouldnt go back there?

[Nesta99]

They say never go back but I think we'd have him! It would be a bit like 2014 again anyway with a team and reputation to rebuild. He'll be given at least WC qualifers, if the draw is nasty maybe longer. The lack of goals can be chalked off to covid stuff, maybe a lucky manager after all?!

[sbgawa]

Having been on the end of "One stephen bradley" from the Dundalk and Bohs fans for 2 or 3 years can i just say that "in Filippo i trust" :)
If the rumours of jim Magilton coming in are true that must be a positive for DFC , he knows his way around as long as Big Bill lets him do it

[Nesta99]

As much credit for Bradley getting his hands on the league trophy goes to the club for sticking with him and letting him improve himself as a manager and the squad, especially when there was pressure coming on from the stands He has veen a very understated chap recently, both after the cup and this league when he could be roaring from the rooftops without much kickback.

Fillipo isnt tested, he is on a hiding to nothing and could yet work out. When he talks about having 'signing his players' I will start to worry!

[ToberonaTornado]

Is it worth giving the Italian guy the job, when it seems clear that stephen Kenny will be available at the end of march - or do dundalk fans believe he wouldnt go back there?

fg wouldn't know his arse from his elbow as far as loi players are concerned but he's a decent coach seems. Bring in dof with keegan(make weight) handy solution,
If you believe SK will lose the Ireland job over some stupid motivational video then you deserve shoite every heaped on your shoulders.

[Longfordian]

He's more likely to lose his job over the terrible run of results. Not that I think he will just yet for either reason.

[Mr_Parker]

So, was this all being kept quiet? :cool2:

Out of competition
Dundalk FC / Mr Filippo Giovanoli


Charges:
• “Shadow coaching”, Art. 4.01(e) & art. 6.01 (b) UEFA Europa League Regulations in connection with art. 36,
art. 40 & art. 42 CL & FFP Regulations
Decision:
The Control, Ethics and Disciplinary Body has decided:
• To ban Mr. Filippo Giovanoli from carrying out any function of a head coach, as well as of any coaching staff,
at UEFA competition matches until he fulfills the criteria contemplated in Article 36 in conjunction with Article
40(1)(b) UEFA Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations. In particular, Mr. Filippo Giovanoli shall not
seat in the technical area during UEFA competition matches until the above criteria are fulfilled.
• The club ensures that Mr. Filippo Giovanoli is informed personally of this decision.
• To fine Dundalk FC €50,000 for the violation of the general principles of conduct (i.e. for not playing 2020/21
UEFA Europa League matches under the direction of a head coach who holds the minimum coaching
qualification as defined in the UEFA Club Licensing and Financial Fair Play Regulations).
• The above fine must be paid within 90 days of communication of this decision.

[Mr_Parker]

Will the FAI also be forced to act and could it have implications for the league?

[pineapple stu]

This was mentioned before I think. Well, not the fine, which is huge, but his ban. It's why he was in the stands against Rapid at home.

Strange to allow him there for the first three games. But UEFA rules are quite clear and Dundalk will have known that. (Especially as the former licensing officer called them up on doing the same thing with Perth as manager last year)

[Mr_Parker]

This was mentioned before I think. Well, not the fine, which is huge, but his ban. It's why he was in the stands against Rapid at home.

Strange to allow him there for the first three games. But UEFA rules are quite clear and Dundalk will have known that. (Especially as the former licensing officer called them up on doing the same thing with Perth as manager last year)

FAI licensing rules are equally clear, but the FAI have failed to act previously.

[sbgawa]

Points deduction of 10 points seems fair.
First division is going to be strong next year 😀

[sbgawa]

In all seriousness though 50k is big fine and dfc did have a qualified coach on the bench. Seems bit harsh, i do think this obsession with badges is more of a money making racket for the different associations

[Calcio Jack]

€50k is approx. 1% of the prize money Dundalk have earned from Europe so far this year , so in relative terms a small fine

[Nesta99]

50k is 50k no matter what prize money is earned. Its at minimum one decent players wage. Maybe Rovers would be willing to suck it up but its not that long ago that 50k would have broken DFC. FG wasnt initially allowed on the bench v Arsenal iirc, but was then allowed. Is that his or DFC's fault. 'Shadow coaching' happens all the time with various coaches giving instructions. The only error here is maybe naming a head coach without the appropriate badge, Keegan was named as manager in subsequent games. I get the reason behind having pro qualified coaches but its ott and unnecessary when the head coach has a significant background in the game. Call it recognised prior leaning. Keep on gloating though Mr P.

[oriel]

€50k is approx. 1% of the prize money Dundalk have earned from Europe so far this year , so in relative terms a small fine

I think the earnings this year will 'only' be around 3.2M, so its still a fair chunk to lose, but I suppose in terms of the starting figure it can be managed. Not sure if this is excessive by UEFA or should DFC have taken additonal steps to mitigate against a potential fine.

There is also some info floating around that DFC got 150k for no fouls v Arsenal, thats pure b/s in my view, nothing was confirmed, pure twitter rubbish.

On the Pro Course, a local journalist posted this am, there is only a window to enroll every 2 years and it takes 18 months...................bring back Vinny !! (he has his badges now)

[sbgawa]

If earnings are 3.2 by the time travel + bonus payments are paid to players, managersss FG SK VP JG AR that number will come down a lot and 50 k is a big kick in the ass for any loi club.
In DFC case Peak6 have lots of money and the 50k wont make a blind bit of difference to them one way or the other.
Its the principal i have a problem with, the whole badges thing is BS.
Call FG the Director of Football and SK the head coach and UEFA are happy but the situation is the same

[DCWA]

Doubt the yanks will care less about the 50k fine tbh he was their man they knew he didn’t have the badges and they’ll take that on the chin without even blinking you would think.

[EalingGreen]

I get the reason behind having pro qualified coaches but its ott and unnecessary when the head coach has a significant background in the game. Call it recognised prior leaning.Sometimes known as "Grandfathering":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_clause

Afaik, when the FA tightened up on coaching qualifications, Sir Alex Ferguson had to rely on this.

But I somehow doubt that Giovagnoli is another Sir Alex.

[EalingGreen]

Its the principal i have a problem with, the whole badges thing is BS.
No disrespect, but that (amateurish) attitude is precisely one of the things which has held back Coaching on these islands, and explains why so few British/Irish people coach abroad these days.

The best way to think of it is to replace "Coaching" with "Teaching" - you never send a teacher into the classroom unless he/she had a degree and a relevant qualification, even though some without them could do the job well and those with them cannot.

These days, as well as players, Portugal produces top Coaches/Managers out of all proportion to its size. And the main reason is because they treat it very seriously as a Profession, with internationally-recognised University degrees and the like, eg:
https://football.fmh.ulisboa.pt/

[Mr_Parker]

50k is 50k no matter what prize money is earned. Its at minimum one decent players wage. Maybe Rovers would be willing to suck it up but its not that long ago that 50k would have broken DFC. FG wasnt initially allowed on the bench v Arsenal iirc, but was then allowed. Is that his or DFC's fault. 'Shadow coaching' happens all the time with various coaches giving instructions. The only error here is maybe naming a head coach without the appropriate badge, Keegan was named as manager in subsequent games. I get the reason behind having pro qualified coaches but its ott and unnecessary when the head coach has a significant background in the game. Call it recognised prior leaning. Keep on gloating though Mr P.

Wether you agree with them or not, the rules are there to be complied with and these are the rules and regs signed up to by clubs.

There is no gloating, I am a Dundalk fan, and take no pleasure in highlighting such issues. However, these 'liberal' interpretation of the rules by the FAI have been going on for years.

[oriel]

If earnings are 3.2 by the time travel + bonus payments are paid to players, managersss FG SK VP JG AR that number will come down a lot and 50 k is a big kick in the ass for any loi club.
In DFC case Peak6 have lots of money and the 50k wont make a blind bit of difference to them one way or the other.
Its the principal i have a problem with, the whole badges thing is BS.
Call FG the Director of Football and SK the head coach and UEFA are happy but the situation is the same

There was also expenses to be added into the 3.2M figures, as Uefa allowed travel expenses for the pre round single leg games for away team, so DFC will be due addtional monies for the trips to Hungary, Moldova and Andorra. There is no expenses for the group games, that's built into the base figure of 2.92 M for each club.

50k is a still a big fine whatever way its dressed up, but P6 can easily absorb this, however it might be 50k less invested into the team for 2021.

[pineapple stu]

P6 can easily absorb this, however it might be 50k less invested into the team for 2021.
Isn't there a question mark as to whether P6 have ever invested anything into Dundalk in the first place?

They can't absorb anything if they don't invest.

[pineapple stu]

Found that Pat's fine actually in an old issue of STIG - €15k in 2008 for "something something licensing", as John Delaney put it.

[Nesta99]

Wether you agree with them or not, the rules are there to be complied with and these are the rules and regs signed up to by clubs.

There is no gloating, I am a Dundalk fan, and take no pleasure in highlighting such issues. However, these 'liberal' interpretation of the rules by the FAI have been going on for years.


If I stand behind the dugouts and shout at the players am I shadow coaching and leaving the club open to being fined. As long as there is a prolicence holder on the bench its just about job titles after that, manager, head coach, first team coach or just simple coach, which is daft. If there is a requirement that all must need a pro licence that is daft too. If SK is nominated as head coach, why shouldnt his coaching staff step up to coach. Its not uncommon for a manager to sit and observe while the assistant prowls the technical area barking instructions.

[Nesta99]

Wether you agree with them or not, the rules are there to be complied with and these are the rules and regs signed up to by clubs.

There is no gloating, I am a Dundalk fan, and take no pleasure in highlighting such issues. However, these 'liberal' interpretation of the rules by the FAI have been going on for years.

Apologies if Ive jumped the gun, at times it seems that the ills of LoI/FAI get emphasised by IL fans. Maybe that has to do with the past tendancies for LoI fans to look down on IL. We really are only starting on a new phase of FAI admin, previously as everyone know 1 individual did his best to keep LoI as a basketcase. So maybe still a touchy subject. IL structures have been worked on with a view for longer term develoment and sustainability so is well ahead on that. We know the weaknesses our league has and the mountain of work that is needed. Debates will rage on on how to improve and develop and maybe you are right that some rules have been overlooked. In this particular case, and yes rules are there to be adhered to, but its wishy washy stuff when coaching staff can have titles tweaked to suit. The bigger 'rule' that Id have issue with is that any ground can be licenced if there is a planning appication in for a new ground/development - which could take 20 or 13 years or never.

[onlooker]

Apologies if Ive jumped the gun, at times it seems that the ills of LoI/FAI get emphasised by IL fans. Maybe that has to do with the past tendancies for LoI fans to look down on IL. We really are only starting on a new phase of FAI admin, previously as everyone know 1 individual did his best to keep LoI as a basketcase. So maybe still a touch subject. IL structures have been worked on with a view for longer term develoment and sustainability so is well ahead on that. We know the weaknesses our league has and the mountain of work that is needed. Dabates will rage on on how to improve and develop nd maybe you are right that some rules have been overlooked. In this particular case, and yes rules are there to be adhered to, but its wishy washy stuff when coaching staff can have titles tweaked to suit. The bigger 'rule' that Id have issue with is that any ground can be licenced if there is a planning appication in for a new ground/development - which could take 20 or 13 years or never.

And you believe that oriel Park should have a Premier license?
And Dalymount park, where any 5foot 6 inch person can touch the crossbar with their hand from a standing position?
Lads let's be honest, lots of our facilities have licences and they shouldn't have.

[sbgawa]

No disrespect, but that (amateurish) attitude is precisely one of the things which has held back Coaching on these islands, and explains why so few British/Irish people coach abroad these days.

The best way to think of it is to replace "Coaching" with "Teaching" - you never send a teacher into the classroom unless he/she had a degree and a relevant qualification, even though some without them could do the job well and those with them cannot.

These days, as well as players, Portugal produces top Coaches/Managers out of all proportion to its size. And the main reason is because they treat it very seriously as a Profession, with internationally-recognised University degrees and the like, eg:
https://football.fmh.ulisboa.pt/


Your picking me up wrong , i have respect for the badges and am often struck at my local junior club at the difference in coaching the kids get from coaches "with badges " who have had some training and dads who are helping out.
My issue is that at a professional club where qualified coaches are employed as they are at DFC saying the manager has to have a badge to manage is BS.
What does it achieve?

[Neish]

No disrespect, but that (amateurish) attitude is precisely one of the things which has held back Coaching on these islands, and explains why so few British/Irish people coach abroad these days.

The best way to think of it is to replace "Coaching" with "Teaching" - you never send a teacher into the classroom unless he/she had a degree and a relevant qualification, even though some without them could do the job well and those with them cannot.

These days, as well as players, Portugal produces top Coaches/Managers out of all proportion to its size. And the main reason is because they treat it very seriously as a Profession, with internationally-recognised University degrees and the like, eg:
https://football.fmh.ulisboa.pt/

100%, imagine a club trying to sort application for coaching jobs etc without asking for certain badges etc they'd be inundated.

This whole saga just makes PEAK 6 look clueless , appointing a basically unheard of coach from some kind of American SOCCER academy to a team that had been dominating a country's domestic game for 4 or 5 years. A man with little if any knowledge of the league or any real manager experience Can't see that happening in many other European top flights

[Neish]

Your picking me up wrong , i have respect for the badges and am often struck at my local junior club at the difference in coaching the kids get from coaches "with badges " who have had some training and dads who are helping out.
My issue is that at a professional club where qualified coaches are employed as they are at DFC saying the manager has to have a badge to manage is BS.
What does it achieve?

it achieves clubs not getting fines

[Nesta99]

And you believe that oriel Park should have a Premier license?
And Dalymount park, where any 5foot 6 inch person can touch the crossbar with their hand from a standing position?
Lads let's be honest, lots of our facilities have licences and they shouldn't have.

Im not totally sure where ye are coming from on yer point. But yes, domestically Oriel Park meets the criteria for licencing and as does Dalymount. That may say more about the licencing system than the clubs in question. Clubs have been facilitated up to now as the alternative is to have those clubs not able to participate. It is what it is and will take time to sort out, but I dont think clubs should be excluded as a result. Otherwise we have no more than 4-5 clubs arguably that have facilities that meet expected levels of crowd accommadation. What would your quick fix be?

[John83]

Found that Pat's fine actually in an old issue of STIG - €15k in 2008 for "something something licensing", as John Delaney put it.
https://i.imgur.com/MXMhxXv.jpg

[oriel]

Isn't there a question mark as to whether P6 have ever invested anything into Dundalk in the first place?

They can't absorb anything if they don't invest.

Certainly question mark over what they paid, however they would have had to buy out the previous joint owners, but in terms of investing, the only part of that has been on wages really.

What I meant on absorb, the gross monies due from UEFA will be paid to P6, so they will be currently on 50k less from around 3m that goes to them, as they will already have paid all travel exps / bonus etc.