Shamrock Rovers entering a team in Div 1 next season

[NeverFeltBetter]

Stupid to say they wouldn't play Rovers B and then do on about turn, "under protest" or not. Not the best for their negotiating position long-term.

[Bunny Kelly]

If under 21 players are able to move between squads then why do they need overage players be allowed? Brandon Kavanagh, Dean Williams & Sean Callan are all first team squad members but probably not going to get the game time to develop, I can see the logic in these being able to play for the B team but Leon Pohls or Greg Bolger needing games for match fitness doesn't feel right or fair.

The top 3/4 teams (and Galway) have a squad of 23/24 players of which the last few spots are young lads, as it should be, but these players will get little game time so we need to find a way to continue their development for the betterment of Irish football

[Eminence Grise]

I assume somebody has checked the rule book and it's OK for players to move outside the window? That it's not just an Irish solution to an Irish problem?

[outspoken]

Daire Doyle summed it up perfectly on the pod the other night, Longford can't approach Sligo and say here those 4 lads you didn't play Friday any chance we can play them tomorrow against Drogheda.

Every other club has a set squad it should be no different for Rovers, they are a B team but this isn't a B league. It's shocking

[White Horse]

It is completely disrespectful towards the competitive integrity of the First Division to allow Rovers B a "floating squad" of players under the age of 21.

I can understand why Rovers would want this and they are only looking after themselves, as would all clubs.

However, the FAI appear willing to sacrifice the sporting integrity of the First Division.

I sympathise with the players, fans, and volunteers of first division clubs. Their efforts towards promotion are been treated with disrespect.

[disgruntled]

Rules should be the same for everyone.
You start with a squad of players & if you need more players or you need to transfer players between squads you do so during the window.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Daire Doyle summed it up perfectly on the pod the other night, Longford can't approach Sligo and say here those 4 lads you didn't play Friday any chance we can play them tomorrow against Drogheda.

Every other club has a set squad it should be no different for Rovers, they are a B team but this isn't a B league. It's shocking

Except that's not what it's like at all. It's more like having a squad the size of cabos and having players not play for months then suddenly come back into the team. Or like UCD with their 2 teams.

Every player that is eligible to play for shamrock rovers is known at the start of the season so that comparison is ridiculous.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

See Longfords social media guy is making a show of himself again

[disgruntled]

Except that's not what it's like at all. It's more like having a squad the size of cabos and having players not play for months then suddenly come back into the team. Or like UCD with their 2 teams.

Every player that is eligible to play for shamrock rovers is known at the start of the season so that comparison is ridiculous.

Will Rovers be allowed to play players from their Premier squad in their B squad when needed & the other way round as well ?

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Will Rovers be allowed to play players from their Premier squad in their B squad when needed & the other way round as well ?

I don't know, nobody does, if Rovers can it's no big deal and for the record lads that's how it works in Germany, players can move between the squads on a week by week basis

[Town Legend]

How in gods name would it be fair for Rovers B to play 6 first teamers one week against Longford and then go out the next week and play maybe 1 first teamer against Bray or Drogheda?? They should just have a set squad and not be allowed move players down from their A team.

[disgruntled]

I don't know, nobody does, if Rovers can it's no big deal and for the record lads that's how it works in Germany, players can move between the squads on a week by week basis

It might be no big deal for Rovers but I'm sure the other 1st Div clubs would beg to differ ?
Have the arrangements been explained to the other 1st Div & if so what are they ?

[disgruntled]

Surely the idea of a Rovers B team was to give experience to players to old for under 19's but not yet up to 1st team standards ?
Anything else just skews the competition.

[sbgawa]

Lads can we stop talking about arrogance and fairness.
Rovers applied under the rules of the league in exactly the same way as anyone else could.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

How in gods name would it be fair for Rovers B to play 6 first teamers one week against Longford and then go out the next week and play maybe 1 first teamer against Bray or Drogheda?? They should just have a set squad and not be allowed move players down from their A team.

That's just not possible under any of the rules being thrown around.


It might be no big deal for Rovers but I'm sure the other 1st Div clubs would beg to differ ?
Have the arrangements been explained to the other 1st Div & if so what are they ?

**** am I supposed to know who's been told what?

[sbgawa]

Just saw the FDA Statement.
They requested players could only play between 18 and 21 LOL
St Josephs boys showing their true colors here.
We have several 17 year olds that the likes of St Josephs/Bray and Cabo have been trying to sign and they were trying to have them excluded from the Rovers Division 1 squad!
Anyway fair play to the FAI Nua for refusing to allow such a riddiculous change to the rules of the Participation agreement.

1 goalkeeper and 1 overage player can play for the B team.
As regards Div 1 players being allowed play for our first team they all are Rovers academy players so they could all do so anyway as can any of the 19s and 17s for any other Premier club

[RathfarnhamHoop]

What a ridiculous statement. Couldn't even get Rovers II's name right.

[Lim till i die]

For the first time in a long long time the first division clubs didn't have honest John around to tell them what to think.

So they huffed and they puffed and they whimpered.

All they had to do if they didn't want to play shamrock b is all agree not to tog out against shamrock b.

But they couldnt manage that.

Anything else is just hand wringing and buck passing.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Would tend to agree. If they had all just stated bluntly "We will not play Rovers B" and stuck to it, what would the FAI have really been able to do? Cancel the whole First Division?

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Galway United continue to be my favourite first division club, not being dragged down by the minnowism of the other 8 clubs in the division

[Bunny Kelly]

First Division clubs will only allow Rovers II for 2020 season, if we are to re-introduce the A championship as a 3rd tier surely we will have promotion & relegation this time around?

[thebronze14]

I think it's a terrible idea myself. However, I don't remember the outcry the last time. Was it because it were an 8 team division 1 or that there's bigger teams in the division now so people care. If the comments about the A league next year are true then that's a big plus

[Mr A]

Not wanting a development team in senior football is minnowism now?

That.. doesn't make any sense.

[Bunny Kelly]

Not wanting any players born after 2003 certainly suggested a schoolboy agenda for certain clubs. Post Brexit though can all these kids go to the UK now anymore?


Martin Odegaard & Erling Haaland both made their league debuts in Norway at 15 but the FDA would say that you a promising youngster would need to be 17?

[nigel-harps1954]

The best thing that has come from this is the talk of the reintroduction of the third tier featuring reserve teams. Presumably filled up with Mayo, Kerry, Monaghan, Carlow/Kilkenny and two or three other intermediate teams looking to step up.

[sbgawa]

I'm willing to bet now that it will be a regional league next year with reserve teams in both,
St Josephs boys can spit their dummy again but they will get to do it after a long period of "constructive dialogue and engagement"

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Not wanting a development team in senior football is minnowism now?

That.. doesn't make any sense.

Their reasons behind it are minnowism. They want access to Rovers academy instead of developing their own.

[Bunny Kelly]

The 2 u-19 leagues will prob become 3rd tier north/south as you cant put the travel costs of going the length of the country on these small clubs.

Next year Limerick takes Rovers spot so FAI can save face in that Rovers B are not in the First Div next season but after that I think B sides should be allowed to get promoted from the 3rd tier to the 2nd but cannot get promoted to Premier Div

[sbgawa]

Not wanting any players born after 2003 certainly suggested a schoolboy agenda for certain clubs. Post Brexit though can all these kids go to the UK now anymore?


Martin Odegaard & Erling Haaland both made their league debuts in Norway at 15 but the FDA would say that you a promising youngster would need to be 17?

100% schoolboy agenda , several of the first division clubs have been led by the nose by a couple of very vocal heads.
The next battle will be the DDSL trying to get the under 13 league scrapped.
They sent out an expression of interest docc to all schoolboy clubs around the country for the establishment of an under 13 National league to be run by the Schoolboy association.
The dinosaurs running the Schoolboy football are the next set of suits the FAI NUA need to clean out

[Bunny Kelly]

Schoolboy clubs are trying to protect their interests/cash cow of selling players to England but is that path not now doomed anyway post Brexit or will they still be able to fund themselves this way?

[sbgawa]

Schoolboy clubs are trying to protect their interests/cash cow of selling players to England but is that path not now doomed anyway post Brexit or will they still be able to fund themselves this way?

Who knows what will happen with Brexit TBH but hopefully they won't be able to travel until they are 18.
For the vast majority it is "failure" and mental health and self esteem issues that result in going over to the UK at 15 /16.

For the absolute elite they will still go over as whole families will be transported to the UK where the UK club thinks the player is good enough to invest this money in relocating a whole family.
The problem is the vast bulk that are going over from the likes of Joeys cost the UK clubs virtualy nothing (the Government actually pays the €150 per week they get as part of an employment scheme) so the UK clubs take them and then weed them out.

[nigel-harps1954]

Their reasons behind it are minnowism. They want access to Rovers academy instead of developing their own.

How did you come to that conclusion, out of interest?

It's nothing to do with wanting to value your own product and trying to get attendances through the gates against a reserve team?

[RathfarnhamHoop]

How did you come to that conclusion, out of interest?

It's nothing to do with wanting to value your own product and trying to get attendances through the gates against a reserve team?

Cabinteelys chairman outright said it in an interview a few weeks back

[nigel-harps1954]

Cabinteelys chairman outright said it in an interview a few weeks back

The Cabinteely chairman said he wanted access to Rovers academy instead of developing their own?

This is the same Cabinteely that have probably the largest underage structure in the country?

[Bunny Kelly]

You cant use away attendances as an excuse for not letting a B team into this Division, Rovers kids will prob get more away support than Athlone, Wexford, UCD, Cabo & Cobh


Also if the Cabo chairman is complaining they are missing out on players to Rovers because of the b team, can Rovers not as easily say they are missing out players now because of Cabo & Bray in the First Division?

I have no vested interest in this but the hypocrisy from some of the clubs is ridiculous

[Scrufil]

So what happens if a group of fans decide to protest against their club playing Rovers II, & stand outside before the teams arrive? Will players be willing to pass the protest line? As fans we still have this right and as 'stakeholders' the FAI nua should pay more attention to what fans and clubs want. My opinion thus far is that the FAI nua is rubbish and they are just paying lip service to real change.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

The Cabinteely chairman said he wanted access to Rovers academy instead of developing their own?

This is the same Cabinteely that have probably the largest underage structure in the country?

Cabinteelys chairman said that Rovers II would impact the player pool available to first division clubs, they were almost his exact words, since rovers have made it very clear from the start they don't intend to sign external players for the team I'll let you figure out the rest

[Ezeikial]

Lads can we stop talking about arrogance and fairness.
Rovers applied under the rules of the league in exactly the same way as anyone else could.

The arrogance of some Rovers fans is apparent here for all to see. Look back over recent posts from RathfarnhamHoop and Placid Casual for some of the most obvious examples.

There is also a normal dose from the club people with many management being either unwilling or unable to say they understand the objections.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

Good to see some things never change

[outspoken]

So what happens if a group of fans decide to protest against their club playing Rovers II, & stand outside before the teams arrive? Will players be willing to pass the protest line? As fans we still have this right and as 'stakeholders' the FAI nua should pay more attention to what fans and clubs want. My opinion thus far is that the FAI nua is rubbish and they are just paying lip service to real change.
Last time you lot stood outside your ground the club put boards up so ye couldn't see in 🤣

[sbgawa]

So what happens if a group of fans decide to protest against their club playing Rovers II, & stand outside before the teams arrive? Will players be willing to pass the protest line? As fans we still have this right and as 'stakeholders' the FAI nua should pay more attention to what fans and clubs want. My opinion thus far is that the FAI nua is rubbish and they are just paying lip service to real change.

Genuine question ...what would you be protesting about.
Leave aside the integrity of the league question please (Limerick betting scandal / going bust/ cabo playing on a rugby pitch in front of 100 people. Kilkenny city Salt hill devon Graveyard etc etc etc)
This is purely a schoolboy club driven agenda with a few gullible people pulled in.

[The Lilywhites]

See Longfords social media guy is making a show of himself again

He'd be better off working on their graphics and content than that nonsense.

Don't see the issue with Rovers II personally. They're the only club that wanted to or had the resources to do it. Dundalk II would have been allowed to enter as well if the club had any actual interest in youth development outside of handing out the odd token contract for PR purposes.

Perth is on record backing the Rovers II idea although maybe that comment was angling for the Rovers job in the future!!

If it's only 1 outfield first team player allowed what's the big deal!

[osarusan]

Under 21s with only 1 outfield player from the senior squad seems reasonable.

I wonder will they just get kicked up and down the pitch all season.

[sbgawa]

First thing i would do if playing a bunch of 17/18/19 year olds would be to kick them up in the air and see how much they fancied it but then when i played you didnt get a yellow card unless you actually hit someone :) HARD.

[RathfarnhamHoop]

He'd be better off working on their graphics and content than that nonsense.

Don't see the issue with Rovers II personally. They're the only club that wanted to or had the resources to do it. Dundalk II would have been allowed to enter as well if the club had any actual interest in youth development outside of handing out the odd token contract for PR purposes.

Perth is on record backing the Rovers II idea although maybe that comment was angling for the Rovers job in the future!!

If it's only 1 outfield first team player allowed what's the big deal!

Same lad was giving out about rovers putting a team lineup in their highlights videos last season because it was giving away tactical insight, lad either hasn't a clue or has a massive chip on his shoulder.

Funnily enough no first division players have a problem with it either, it's just certain board members making it an issue and everyone and their mother knows what their real motives are.

[Martinho II]

Back in 2014 season when shamrock rovers B were last in the league I assume the same rules were in place and as said by another poster there was no major fuss at all if my memory serves me right I think it was the small amount of Shamrock Rovers senior players that couldnt make the first team that played in it. I think Dean Kelly was part of that rovers B squad when he played the odd game and he played for us a season later. I think Rovers B have genuine intentions so I think its a good compromise for now.

Way to go is have what we did in 09 season when we had the A championship.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Need to play it very carefully with any resurrection of the A Championship. It died off for several good reasons, and left the league with a massive headache with the situation in Galway. Some form of regionalisation, a limited schedule and strict adherence to licensing for any team's seeking promotion!

[pineapple stu]

Agree with that. The A Championship isn't a panacea for anything. The LoI has a huge problem in that it's largely disconnected from the rest of football in the country, and very few clubs want to play in it. The A Championship doesn't really address those two issues. It just adds another layer of "meh" for the most part.

Wasn't there teams who left their own local leagues to join the A Championship, and then had to rejoin at the bottom of the local rung when it folded? Or am I making that up?

[NeverFeltBetter]

Tralee Dynamos as I recall.

Edit: Yeah, they got bumped down two tiers in the Kerry District League. Strolled their way back to the top, but it was essentially two lost seasons for the club.

[pineapple stu]

That's who I was thinking of alright. Daft stuff