Shamrock Rovers entering a team in Div 1 next season [Archive] - Page 2

Charlie Darwin

08/12/2019, 12:24 AM

Still don't see why any club would want the money pit of a first Division team.
Most clubs have difficulty keeping ONE team afloat never mind a FD vanity project.
I don't fully see it myself but Rovers must see some value in it to do it again after the debacle the last time. I know Pats were put out the last time when they were told only Rovers could enter a team (which was wrong). If B teams are to be a thing in the FD, it has to be open to any club who can demonstrate they'll back it for 3+ years (and not abandon it after year one like Rovers).

marinobohs

08/12/2019, 11:59 PM

I don't fully see it myself but Rovers must see some value in it to do it again after the debacle the last time. I know Pats were put out the last time when they were told only Rovers could enter a team (which was wrong). If B teams are to be a thing in the FD, it has to be open to any club who can demonstrate they'll back it for 3+ years (and not abandon it after year one like Rovers).
Can only presume it's something to do with youth development side of things and good luck to them if it goes ahead, just can't see the value in it.

Charlie Darwin

11/12/2019, 12:03 AM

Can only presume it's something to do with youth development side of things and good luck to them if it goes ahead, just can't see the value in it.
In the absence of a proper reserve league I could see how it might work out for Rovers, in terms of keeping 19s who aren't ready for Premier football (ie Darragh O'Connor, who went to Wexford and is now at Leicester) but you'd imagine the only way it really works is if it gives players a bridge to the first team within six months. I suspect the reality might be that the FAI knew they'd be down a team next year and sent out an SOS call.

vinnie

11/12/2019, 12:49 PM

In the absence of a proper reserve league I could see how it might work out for Rovers, in terms of keeping 19s who aren't ready for Premier football (ie Darragh O'Connor, who went to Wexford and is now at Leicester) but you'd imagine the only way it really works is if it gives players a bridge to the first team within six months. I suspect the reality might be that the FAI knew they'd be down a team next year and sent out an SOS call.

So will Rovers get a nice Glamour Friendly in the summer for the trouble?

Mr A

11/12/2019, 12:58 PM

Last time Rovers B came in it was because another club died.

Depressing.

Sometimes I hate being right.

sbgawa

11/12/2019, 4:14 PM

Thank God Rovers are entering a team now, a 9 team league with a 24 game season is to depressing to think about.
Hopefully limerick and a n other team can get themselves organised for 2021 season it is nuts to think of limerick without a team in the loi

joey B

11/12/2019, 7:14 PM

Johnny Ward on Twitter saying the First division clubs have met and under no circumstances will a Rover's B team be in the First division next season......

sidewayspasser

11/12/2019, 7:29 PM

Can they actually veto against a team or is this just a non-binding statement?

Ezeikial

11/12/2019, 8:34 PM

Can they actually veto against a team or is this just a non-binding statement?

Everything Johnny Ward tweets is a non-binding statement

sidewayspasser

11/12/2019, 10:35 PM

Everything Johnny Ward tweets is a non-binding statement
Of course it is.
What I meant was do the FD clubs have the right to block a new team by their veto, or can they only say "we don't want them" but have no real say in the matter?

sbgawa

12/12/2019, 7:39 AM

Sensible heads will prevail, most of the teams will realise with limericks gone a 9 team division is a nightmare.

seand

12/12/2019, 7:53 AM

Sensible heads will prevail, most of the teams will realise with limericks gone a 9 team division is a nightmare.

Quote of the year, decade and century there sbgawa. League of Ireland is well known for it's sensible heads. The same sensible heads who decided that their main plan to deal with financial challenges season was to voluntarily get rid of 4-5 home games each by playing 3 series instead of 4.

pineapple stu

12/12/2019, 7:58 AM

In fairness, if home games are run at a loss, there's logic inn that.

Sonny

12/12/2019, 9:04 AM

In fairness, if home games are run at a loss, there's logic inn that.

Well then why not just play no games at all and have a draw for the final league positions?

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/218/908/247.gif

nr637

12/12/2019, 9:05 AM

The Shams will have no problems joining now as Limerick FC are gone!

seand

12/12/2019, 10:18 AM

In fairness, if home games are run at a loss, there's logic inn that.

In fairness if home games are run at a loss why are we bothering at all?

pineapple stu

12/12/2019, 10:42 AM

Well then why not just play no games at all and have a draw for the final league positions?
The flip side is that if 27 games results in a league winner, why bother losing money to play 9 more games?

(Not saying it's an ideal situation obviously. But it's a fact that First Division games will tend to lose money, so there's definitely logic there)

sbgawa

12/12/2019, 11:45 AM

Quote of the year, decade and century there sbgawa. League of Ireland is well known for it's sensible heads. The same sensible heads who decided that their main plan to deal with financial challenges season was to voluntarily get rid of 4-5 home games each by playing 3 series instead of 4.

Honoured I am to win such an accolade:) worst thing is u are probably right, I was applying real world logic to the fantasy world of loi

disgruntled

12/12/2019, 12:04 PM

Honoured I am to win such an accolade:) worst thing is u are probably right, I was applying real world logic to the fantasy world of loi

Logic & the League of Ireland in the same sentence.
There's just no logic to that :D

Martinho II

12/12/2019, 3:38 PM

Heard an interesting name being mentioned on Game on Podcast last night. Annacotty down in Limerick have a superb set up and theres talk of them joining!

Ezeikial

18/12/2019, 1:39 PM

Vinny Perth says Dundalk are exploring the possibility of entering a B team in the First Division in 2021.

http://jamesrogers.ie/dundalk-exploring-the-possibility-of-entering-a-b-team-in-first-division/

Ezeikial

18/12/2019, 1:43 PM

To be fair, Dundalk have always been about having a small, but elite squad. Owners there are purely about the first team and nothing else. Hard to see them being into the idea of a B team. Could see Pats, Cork and Bohs questioning why they're not allowed follow suit though.

Insightful comment there Charlie.�..although to be fair a B team is partially about feeding into the first team

Calcio Jack

18/12/2019, 1:51 PM

EatYerGreens

18/12/2019, 3:21 PM

Heard an interesting name being mentioned on Game on Podcast last night. Annacotty down in Limerick have a superb set up and theres talk of them joining!

Christ no ! If Limerick FC couldn't make things work located next to the train station in the Republic;s 3rd biggest city, then what hope is there for a random little club located in a village ion the eastern fringes of Limerick ?

Having a 'nice little set up' just isn't enough to become a senior team any more. It's been tried and failed all over the country so many times now - from Salthill Devon to Kildare County. The possibility of genuinely developing a decent fanbase is what will make or break a club in the LOI - not having a few nice pitches with a paladin fence around them.

NeverFeltBetter

18/12/2019, 3:29 PM

I presume any interest from Annacotty - which I doubt has much substance to it myself - would be a barebones Cabinteely job, to get access to the underage leagues

da bishop

18/12/2019, 3:55 PM

Heard an interesting name being mentioned on Game on Podcast last night. Annacotty down in Limerick have a superb set up and theres talk of them joining!Any idea who mentioned them?would hardly call their setup superb ,very good junior venue and schoolboy setup but anyone suggesting they are ready or able for the next level is mistaken.

Martinho II

18/12/2019, 4:01 PM

Any idea who mentioned them?would hardly call their setup superb ,very good junior venue and schoolboy setup but anyone suggesting they are ready or able for the next level is mistaken.

There was a special guest on the Game On podcast that night. Alan Cawley was on it with Stephen McGuinness and a local Limerick journalist Don O Sullivan from the limerick leader.Its from a week ago the 11th of December when I checked game ons website just now!

nigel-harps1954

18/12/2019, 5:41 PM

Another Mervue United setup isn't something the LOI needs.

marinobohs

18/12/2019, 9:31 PM

Actually, allowing a shams B team in would be preferable to pushing some junior/intermediate side that would "melt " halfway through the season.

Charlie Darwin

19/12/2019, 12:57 AM

Insightful comment there Charlie.…..although to be fair a B team is partially about feeding into the first team
Look, I might have been wrong about Dundalk. Fair play if they're considering paying another 25 players from Dublin.

Ezeikial

19/12/2019, 6:47 AM

Look, I might have been wrong about Dundalk. Fair play if they're considering paying another 25 players from Dublin.

More rules than I realised!

Having another 25 professionals on the books would be tough enough, but this Dublin-born restriction is a step too far!

Nesta99

19/12/2019, 9:01 PM

Look, I might have been wrong about Dundalk. Fair play if they're considering paying another 25 players from Dublin.

Actually the national spread of where Dundalk players are from is less Dublincentric than at any time before. I'd imagine a 'B' team would be made up of young lads from all over the North East, Cavan/Monaghan, South Down/Armagh and players from Dublin possibly via the Malahide link up. In an ideal world a quota of senior team players should be able to move between the 2 sides without 'transfer' issues almost like a proper reserve team. It would help develop players and rehab injured lads - not likely or even possible but should be a consideration for a future League admin that wants the league as strong as possible. At face value other 1st Division clubs may see it as unfair but if they are playing against strong sides then they will improve also in a bigger picture way.

Charlie Darwin

20/12/2019, 2:14 AM

Actually the national spread of where Dundalk players are from is less Dublincentric than at any time before. I'd imagine a 'B' team would be made up of young lads from all over the North East, Cavan/Monaghan, South Down/Armagh and players from Dublin possibly via the Malahide link up. In an ideal world a quota of senior team players should be able to move between the 2 sides without 'transfer' issues almost like a proper reserve team. It would help develop players and rehab injured lads - not likely or even possible but should be a consideration for a future League admin that wants the league as strong as possible. At face value other 1st Division clubs may see it as unfair but if they are playing against strong sides then they will improve also in a bigger picture way.
I was only joshing, and you're right of course. But I'd imagine it's a bugbear of Dundalk fans that there aren't more locals in the team. I don't mean that as a criticism of Dundalk - I know it's a footbal-mad town.

Nesta99

20/12/2019, 8:24 AM

Ezeikial

20/12/2019, 8:42 AM

The whole local player thing was an excuse previously used not to go to games. Not such an issue when the club is successful. If there were local players good enough they'd be at the club. A lot of schoolboy clubs around Dundalk were very resistant to improving coaching as that would have involved breaking up some cliques. Dedicated and well intended people involved over the years but some self importance too that has undoubtedly held back development of local talent unless there was an exceptional talent that shone through regardless. Some clubs are better than others of course. There are also schoolboy clubs that have senior teams in the MDL for example and I think this has taken their focus off youth development in favour of running a senior team at whatever level.

What is different now is the number of players that live locally which seems to be a 'compromise' for those who whinged about players not being local.

Prior to the national league under-age development, the route for promising under-age players was to join one of the DDSL clubs like St Kevin's, or Belvedere where they would be playing at a higher level than in the local leagues. Presumably the new national league system means that exceptional talent find theses higher levels of coaching and competition at their League of Ireland club rather than in the DDSL

While there have been some exceptional players from Dundalk - like Tommy McConville, Barry Kehoe and Dessie Gorman - it's been a long time since any local player has emerged to be a first team regular in a successful Dundalk team. Maybe that will change with the new structures!

Nesta99

20/12/2019, 1:16 PM

Prior to the national league under-age development, the route for promising under-age players was to join one of the DDSL clubs like St Kevin's, or Belvedere where they would be playing at a higher level than in the local leagues. Presumably the new national league system means that exceptional talent find theses higher levels of coaching and competition at their League of Ireland club rather than in the DDSL

While there have been some exceptional players from Dundalk - like Tommy McConville, Barry Kehoe and Dessie Gorman - it's been a long time since any local player has emerged to be a first team regular in a successful Dundalk team. Maybe that will change with the new structures!

Thats very true, but flawed as a system as while player that showed promise (big lads for their age group basically) at a very young age moved to DDSL there were plenty of players that developed a bit later, often in to better players, but were 'past it' for a move to DDSL believe it or not. These players, if lucky, got their chance at a break with DSL at the Milk Cup. The new system will go a long way to correcting this old fashioned thinking. If Messi had been Irish he'd probably have never made the cut with coahes here, and would probably have not kicked a ball before a decision was made.

Dalymountrower

20/12/2019, 2:47 PM

The whole local player thing was an excuse previously used not to go to games. Not such an issue when the club is successful. If there were local players good enough they'd be at the club. A lot of schoolboy clubs around Dundalk were very resistant to improving coaching as that would have involved breaking up some cliques. Dedicated and well intended people involved over the years but some self importance too that has undoubtedly held back development of local talent unless there was an exceptional talent that shone through regardless. Some clubs are better than others of course. There are also schoolboy clubs that have senior teams in the MDL for example and I think this has taken their focus off youth development in favour of running a senior team at whatever level.

What is different now is the number of players that live locally which seems to be a 'compromise' for those who whinged about players not being local.

Yep, I remember those excuses being trotted out as reasons for locals not to support Dundalk, on the basis of not enough Dundalk natives on the playing staff. Then a Bank Rovers side full of Dundalk players got spanked in the cup in front of one man and his dog, and that was the end of that argument.
While Dundlak is a solid soccer town, it doesn`t have the numbers as it is completely surrounded by GAA territory in North Louth, ( Dreadnoughts, love the name), South Armagh, (Crossmaglen Rangers ) and GAA strongholds in C`Blayney and Carrick mc C. Compared to Sligo , which is similarly surrounded, they have a long tradition of many different nationalities playing for the Bit o`Red without any particular whinging from fans looking for excuses not to go to games.

nigel-harps1954

20/12/2019, 3:17 PM

If Dundalk were to go down this route, it would probably make more sense for them to put some sort of 'feeder club' structure in place with Monaghan and go with them as their B team.

Ezeikial

20/12/2019, 6:28 PM

If Dundalk were to go down this route, it would probably make more sense for them to put some sort of 'feeder club' structure in place with Monaghan and go with them as their B team.

That would rule out one of the key benefits of using the B team to give game time to first team squad players or those returning from injury

nigel-harps1954

20/12/2019, 7:07 PM

That would rule out one of the key benefits of using the B team to give game time to first team squad players or those returning from injury

That would be ruled out anyway. you couldn't dual register players to play in both Premier and First Divisions. Rovers B team a couple of years ago didn't get that benefit and had to name two separate squads, why would it be any different this time?

Nesta99

20/12/2019, 7:43 PM

Yep, I remember those excuses being trotted out as reasons for locals not to support Dundalk, on the basis of not enough Dundalk natives on the playing staff. Then a man and his dog, and thatBank Rovers side full of Dundalk players got spanked in the cup in front of one was the end of that argument.
While Dundlak is a solid soccer town, it doesn`t have the numbers as it is completely surrounded by GAA territory in North Louth, ( Dreadnoughts, love the name), South Armagh, (Crossmaglen Rangers ) and GAA strongholds in C`Blayney and Carrick mc C. Compared to Sligo , which is similarly surrounded, they have a long tradition of many different nationalities playing for the Bit o`Red without any particular whinging from fans looking for excuses not to go to games.

I wish that had been it but the 2002 cup winning side had about 5 locals in the team and some still ranted on about not plaaying locals...the current excuse is ' I didnt go to Oriel when things were bad and I dont wnat to be a glory hunter fan now' as they are decked out in Man City or Leicester gear never mind Liverpool, Man Utd, Arsenal.

Asterix

20/12/2019, 7:46 PM

That would be ruled out anyway. you couldn't dual register players to play in both Premier and First Divisions. Rovers B team a couple of years ago didn't get that benefit and had to name two separate squads, why would it be any different this time?

I think last time we could name up to three first team players in the B team match day squad.

Ezeikial

20/12/2019, 10:01 PM

That would be ruled out anyway. you couldn't dual register players to play in both Premier and First Divisions. Rovers B team a couple of years ago didn't get that benefit and had to name two separate squads, why would it be any different this time?

Irish Indo from Dec 2013:

� From their Premier Division squad, Shamrock Rovers will be permitted to play a maximum of three outfield players and a goalkeeper in First Division fixtures.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/fai-allow-shamrock-rovers-to-field-second-team-in-first-division-29855859.html

nigel-harps1954

21/12/2019, 9:50 AM

I stand corrected. I don't remember Rovers using first team players.

Martinho II

21/12/2019, 12:23 PM

I stand corrected. I don't remember Rovers using first team players.

I actually remember in our promotion season against shamrock rovers B they had a small no of first teamers playing for them.Top of my head cant specifically point out a name but I do remember reading about it before.

Asterix

21/12/2019, 2:00 PM

I stand corrected. I don't remember Rovers using first team players.

They were rarely used in the B team, it was usually only if they were coming back from an injury. I remmeber karl sheppard playing a game or two.

Nah Nah Nah Nah

22/12/2019, 11:04 AM

Yep, I remember those excuses being trotted out as reasons for locals not to support Dundalk, on the basis of not enough Dundalk natives on the playing staff. Then a Bank Rovers side full of Dundalk players got spanked in the cup in front of one man and his dog, and that was the end of that argument.
While Dundlak is a solid soccer town, it doesn`t have the numbers as it is completely surrounded by GAA territory in North Louth, ( Dreadnoughts, love the name), South Armagh, (Crossmaglen Rangers ) and GAA strongholds in C`Blayney and Carrick mc C. Compared to Sligo , which is similarly surrounded, they have a long tradition of many different nationalities playing for the Bit o`Red without any particular whinging from fans looking for excuses not to go to games.

We tried playing a team of local players at one stage and ended up bottom of the first division with no one going to games

total hoofball

22/12/2019, 12:42 PM

Shamrock Rovers 'B' used first team players in 4 of their 28 first division matches that season. Shelbourne (H) 1-1, Galway (H) 1-1, Waterford United (H) 0-1, Galway (H) 0-3

8 first team players used and their appearances/goals were Robert Bayly (2/0), Rob Cornwall (2/0), Craig Hyland (3), Dean Kelly (1/0), Ciar�n Kilduff (1/0), David O'Connor (2/0), Se�n O'Connor (1/1), Karl Sheppard (2/0)

It's very clear why this is one reason First Division clubs are against Rovers fielding a B team in the exact same manner, as it puts teams at a competitive disadvantage if an opponent can field top Premier Division full-time players in random cameo appearances

Martinho II

22/12/2019, 1:00 PM

We tried playing a team of local players at one stage and ended up bottom of the first division with no one going to games

was that in the 88-89 season when we were ahead of ye? We werent no great shapes either that period as was in same boat too.

seand

23/12/2019, 8:13 AM