Caoimhín Kelleher GK Brentford b.1998

[elatedscum]

FWIW that was never a penalty. Hendrick clearly won the ball. VAR referred it because of that and if that ref wasn’t so in love with Ronaldo and his 100th goal, it would have been overturned

[irishfan86]

Bazunu has high level distribution. Mypost is either trolling or has an inability to perceive reality in the way that normal humans do. I like Kelleher and his distribution is high level too — but he’s also botched it by trying to be too cute. Both keepers are high level in many ways but have growing pains. I tend to give Bazunu the edge as he’s younger, getting way more first time minutes, and I think there’s more room to grow.

[liamoo11]

This thread is so focused on searching for every mistake kelleher and bazunu have made to prove one of them will never be a top keeper. All keepers make mistakes. Take last night ramsdale had 3 very poor mistakes with crosses that he was just dog lucky that Liverpool didn't score from. If any of our 2 had those mistakes there would be loads of talk on here saying they would never be top level

[seanfhear]

Travers might turn out to be better than both of them = Who really knows ?

[pineapple stu]

An interesting thing to see is how Bazunu will avoid the same issues in the coming years.

The only way out of sitting on the bench at Man City for him are (a) leaving the club permanently or (b) taking the number 1 spot. The latter, with the best will in the world, is odds against just by its very nature.

[passinginterest]

I think Bazunu will be off to play in a top European league next season, either on loan or for a relatively big money transfer. He seems like a confident and ambitious chap and I don't see him having any fear of a move outside England.

[Diggs246]

I think Bazunu will be off to play in a top European league next season, either on loan or for a relatively big money transfer. He seems like a confident and ambitious chap and I don't see him having any fear of a move outside England.

I agree and why not
A season in France would suit him

[DeLorean]

An interesting thing to see is how Bazunu will avoid the same issues in the coming years.

The only way out of sitting on the bench at Man City for him are (a) leaving the club permanently or (b) taking the number 1 spot. The latter, with the best will in the world, is odds against just by its very nature.

Same issues maybe but in a very different context. Even if he does warm the Manchester City bench for a spell, he'll do so with a wealth of first team men's football behind him, something Kelleher is very unlikely to accumulate until he moves.

[DeLorean]

Klopp said Alisson was only playing due to a lack of match sharpness - to get a game before the league game this weekend. The interview he did certainly implied that Kelleher would play next week

Given the strength of the side Klopp put out last night and how delicately the tie is balanced, I'd be very (pleasantly) surpirsed if Kelleher starts the 2nd leg.

I'd say Klopp was eager to finish the tie last night but that hasn't come to pass.

[seanfhear]

I agree and why not
A season in France would suit him
A Summer Season in France wouldn’t do any of us any harm.

[seanfhear]

I think Bazunu will be off to play in a top European league next season, either on loan or for a relatively big money transfer. He seems like a confident and ambitious chap and I don't see him having any fear of a move outside England.
Maybe he likes living in England.

[ontheotherhand]

This thread is so focused on searching for every mistake kelleher and bazunu have made to prove one of them will never be a top keeper. All keepers make mistakes. Take last night ramsdale had 3 very poor mistakes with crosses that he was just dog lucky that Liverpool didn't score from. If any of our 2 had those mistakes there would be loads of talk on here saying they would never be top level

It seems like that sometimes but it isn't outside of a handful of posters really. Your post aligns with how the majority feel I think.

If we had two strikers in similar positions (i.e. one 19 year old who missed a few sitters but is top scorer in League 1 while on loan from the best club in England and a 23 year old sitting on the bench behind Salah but starting cup games and scoring a few) we'd all be delighted. We'd also probably all think the latter could do with a loan move to play a full season or two. PL2 doesn't count for much imop when you see what Parrot did there compared to his form now in lower senior leagues (Odubeko is a more recent example).

For some reason Liverpool fans and a few anti-Kenny heads have hitched their wagon to Kelleher so strongly that they take that perspective as an attack on Kelleher himself. There's a similar thread about Ciaran Clark. A read back through this thread doesn't reveal much criticism of Kelleher at all after he starts against Ajax in the CL i.e. when he started featuring in proper senior games. It is full of hyperbolic criticism of Bazunu and even the forgotten man Travers though.

[Razors left peg]

An interesting thing to see is how Bazunu will avoid the same issues in the coming years.

The only way out of sitting on the bench at Man City for him are (a) leaving the club permanently or (b) taking the number 1 spot. The latter, with the best will in the world, is odds against just by its very nature.

Bazunu will never be a 24 year old keeper who has never played regularly

[pineapple stu]

No, but that's not the point.

How does he avoid being Man City's number 2 for an extended period of time?

He'll either have to leave - and I don't see City cashing in this early - or take over the top spot.

But he may well have to have a stint as number 2 to prove his pedigree in a strange way (as in, City's faith in him as backup might add to his marketability in terms of getting a good move)

[Razors left peg]

No, but that's not the point.

How does he avoid being Man City's number 2 for an extended period of time?

He'll either have to leave - and I don't see City cashing in this early - or take over the top spot.

But he may well have to have a stint as number 2 to prove his pedigree in a strange way (as in, City's faith in him as backup might add to his marketability in terms of getting a good move)
It really is the point. Kelleher risks going too long in his development where he hasnt played enough football.

At some point Bazunu will most likely spend a season on the bench, or he will do so well on a loan stint that City genuinely will consider for 1st choice. He has a good few years on his side though and probably multiple loans spells to hopefully gradually better clubs

[John83]

...How does he avoid being Man City's number 2 for an extended period of time?...
I'd use Henderson at Man Utd as a model. Pro terms at 18. A small number of games (9 and 7) on loan to Stockport and Grimsby in the next two seasons. Full season playing at Shrewsbury in League 1, then consecutive loans to Sheffield United in which they were promoted from the Championship and established themselves as a decent Premiership team, and which set him up to come back and fight De Gea (repeatedly the club's player of the year) for a starting place. His reputation is established in England, and if he tires of warming the bench (after some early to-and-fro, De Gea's been clear #1 again for a while now) he'll have no bother finding a Premiership team interested.

Bazunu's career path has been similar enough so far, but a year ahead. I expect he'll probably be targeted at a Championship loan next season, possibly at Portsmouth again if he helps get them promoted.

[Razors left peg]

I'd use Henderson at Man Utd as a model. Pro terms at 18. A small number of games (9 and 7) on loan to Stockport and Grimsby in the next two seasons. Full season playing at Shrewsbury in League 1, then consecutive loans to Sheffield United in which they were promoted from the Championship and established themselves as a decent Premiership team, and which set him up to come back and fight De Gea (repeatedly the club's player of the year) for a starting place. His reputation is established in England, and if he tires of warming the bench (after some early to-and-fro, De Gea's been clear #1 again for a while now) he'll have no bother finding a Premiership team interested.

Bazunu's career path has been similar enough so far, but a year ahead. I expect he'll probably be targeted at a Championship loan next season, possibly at Portsmouth again if he helps get them promoted.
Henderson almost seems forgotten this season. It shows how competitive it can be to get a number 1 job. Ive said before that Kelleher risks being passed over

[paul_oshea]

No, but that's not the point.

How does he avoid being Man City's number 2 for an extended period of time?

He'll either have to leave - and I don't see City cashing in this early - or take over the top spot.

But he may well have to have a stint as number 2 to prove his pedigree in a strange way (as in, City's faith in him as backup might add to his marketability in terms of getting a good move)

Was going to ask if rovers had any add on clauses I know they have appearance clauses for both club and country. But has that a limit of 1 mil( in the form of total number of international and/or club appearances) from the original 500k they paid?

[JR89]

Bazunu's career path has been similar enough so far, but a year ahead. I expect he'll probably be targeted at a Championship loan next season, possibly at Portsmouth again if he helps get them promoted.

Bazunu himself has come out and said he fancies a premier league loan but more than likely would be a championship loan. Would love if he could get one from a team outside the UK if European football was involved.

He'll have two years left on his contract in the summer so should be in line for a big pay rise. Ball is really in his court because if City fail to sort something and he goes into the final year of his contract he'll have plenty of interest from clubs in England and in Europe.

[Razors left peg]

Man City have ownership in a lot of clubs around the world, including Girona in Spain. Something like that could be a good option for Bazunu

[pineapple stu]

I'd use Henderson at Man Utd as a model. Pro terms at 18. A small number of games (9 and 7) on loan to Stockport and Grimsby in the next two seasons. Full season playing at Shrewsbury in League 1, then consecutive loans to Sheffield United in which they were promoted from the Championship and established themselves as a decent Premiership team, and which set him up to come back and fight De Gea (repeatedly the club's player of the year) for a starting place. His reputation is established in England, and if he tires of warming the bench (after some early to-and-fro, De Gea's been clear #1 again for a while now) he'll have no bother finding a Premiership team interested.
Ok - but that phrase "if he tires warming the bench" is there, which is what I'm trying to get around.

I'm sure Bazunu can leave Man City and find a new Premier League club whenever he wants - and probably Kelleher can too in fairness; I think any fears he's number 2 by default because Adrian was crap are gone now.

But that doesn't mean he won't have to go through a year or two as backup keeper before having to make a call.

Maybe it's just an inevitable part of being at such a big club (for both players)

[Jd2793]

comparing kelleher to people like henderson isnt really fair though. Henderson/Bazunu etc were GKs since they started playing. Kelleher fell into the position at schoolboy level having been an outfield player until 2011, his development is going to be different to others.

[Razors left peg]

comparing kelleher to people like henderson isnt really fair though. Henderson/Bazunu etc were GKs since they started playing. Kelleher fell into the position at schoolboy level having been an outfield player until 2011, his development is going to be different to others.
If thats the case its even more important that hes getting games

[Jd2793]

If thats the case its even more important that hes getting games

yes , he should definitely be playing with shrewsbury on loan instead of being Liverpools no2.

[ontheotherhand]

comparing kelleher to people like henderson isnt really fair though. Henderson/Bazunu etc were GKs since they started playing. Kelleher fell into the position at schoolboy level having been an outfield player until 2011, his development is going to be different to others.

Bazunu played outfield as a schoolboy as well.

[ontheotherhand]

yes , he should definitely be playing with shrewsbury on loan instead of being Liverpools no2.

Why do you think not playing football is better than playing football for a player's development?

[Jd2793]

https://twitter.com/shamrockrovers/status/1375884389654147074

he played in goal at a much younger age than Kelleher

[ontheotherhand]

https://twitter.com/shamrockrovers/status/1375884389654147074

he played in goal at a much younger age than Kelleher


And your take would be that because Kelleher played in goal a bit later that he benefits more now from playing less?

[Jd2793]

And your take would be that because Kelleher played in goal a bit later that he benefits more now from playing less?

my take is that he'll have needed more time to develop on the whole in comparison to someone like Bazunu whos been trained in a specialist position since at least aged 10 as that pic shows. A 4 year head start at that position seems like a lot! Kelleher will need game time eventually and he'll know this too but I fail to see how his growth is being stunted right now by being no.2 at Liverpool where he'll be training with and learning from some of the best minds in the game. Liverpool will probably sell him at some point in near future to fund transfers anyway so we can return to the comparisons then.

[Razors left peg]

yes , he should definitely be playing with shrewsbury on loan instead of being Liverpools no2.
Yes he definitely should at this point. Being Liverpools number 2 he just sits on the bench for the most part. Playing 40 games a season at the age of 24 is not a lot to ask from a guy if he has any ambitions to develop as a player

[ontheotherhand]

my take is that he'll have needed more time to develop on the whole in comparison to someone like Bazunu whos been trained in a specialist position since at least aged 10 as that pic shows. A 4 year head start at that position seems like a lot! Kelleher will need game time eventually and he'll know this too but I fail to see how his growth is being stunted right now by being no.2 at Liverpool where he'll be training with and learning from some of the best minds in the game. Liverpool will probably sell him at some point in near future to fund transfers anyway so we can return to the comparisons then.

Do you think he'd honestly learn less by playing week in week out, particularly if he had access to the same minds? I just can't see how studying a keeper is better than facing shots every week.

But look, as I said above, they are both in good spots in their careers having taken different paths. I just think Kelleher would be in a better spot if he had 1 or 2 loan spells while Adrian/Karius were the "good enough for Klopp" options on the bench. IF he had a good body of work at League 1 or Championship level I think he'd be Ireland's #1 and would have been for a few years now. As you say, he will get his move at some point and then we will see what he can do over a season. It looks really promising.

[joey B]

Do you think he'd honestly learn less by playing week in week out, particularly if he had access to the same minds? I just can't see how studying a keeper is better than facing shots every week.

But look, as I said above, they are both in good spots in their careers having taken different paths. I just think Kelleher would be in a better spot if he had 1 or 2 loan spells while Adrian/Karius were the "good enough for Klopp" options on the bench. IF he had a good body of work at League 1 or Championship level I think he'd be Ireland's #1 and would have been for a few years now. As you say, he will get his move at some point and then we will see what he can do over a season. It looks really promising.

I think that’s the problem though,Klopp doesn’t see Karius or Adrian as good enough to back up Allison,both have let him down in big spots,Karius could leave tomorrow if a club would take him…

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2022/jan/14/loris-karius-told-he-has-no-future-at-liverpool-and-is-free-to-leave

That’s Klopp speaking just today

[elatedscum]

Yes he definitely should at this point. Being Liverpools number 2 he just sits on the bench for the most part. Playing 40 games a season at the age of 24 is not a lot to ask from a guy if he has any ambitions to develop as a player

A month and a half a go, he was still 22, now he’s 24.

[ontheotherhand]

I think that’s the problem though,Klopp doesn’t see Karius or Adrian as good enough to back up Allison,both have let him down in big spots,Karius could leave tomorrow if a club would take him…

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/football/2022/jan/14/loris-karius-told-he-has-no-future-at-liverpool-and-is-free-to-leave

That’s Klopp speaking just today

Sorry joey that was more in reference to the fact that a few posters seem to think that Klopp believing a player is good enough to be #2 should be enough for Ireland to pick the player at #1 when he and Liverpool don't have a great track record there at all. It also coincided with the time Kelleher probably would have benefitted most from getting a loan or two in. if he had, he'd probably be Ireland #1 now.

[elatedscum]

Kelleher has also been incredibly unlucky that almost all of his injuries etc have coincided with Alisson’s. And that his loan spell to the Netherlands fell apart due to an injury to Alisson…

In the last two and a half seasons, Kelleher has played 14 games as a second choice keeper and Adrian has played 25 games as a third choice keeper. That’s virtually unheard of. If he was sitting with 39 games played for Liverpool, we’d all feel a lot better about.

There is the cautionary tale of Danny Ward, Wales’ first choice keeper. Ward was Liverpool’s second choice and is a very good, Premier League quality keeper. After sitting on the bench for a few seasons at Liverpool, Chelsea were very interested in Kasper Schmichael and he hadn’t signed a new deal. Leicester signed Ward to replace him for about £12m. As it turned out, Chelsea changed their mind and went for Kepa. Kasper stayed and Ward ended up on Leicester’s bench having just signed a long term deal.

He’s now 28 years old and has played 17 games for Leicester over the past 3 and half seasons. In 2021 alone, he played 14 games for Wales.

[Snapshot]

Travers might turn out to be better than both of them = Who really knows ?
You're right. Let's take a hypothetical leap into next season. Travers is an EPL regular, Bazunu is a Championship regular and Kelleher is still a now-and-thener with Liverpool. Travers every time for me.

[third policeman]

Sorry joey that was more in reference to the fact that a few posters seem to think that Klopp believing a player is good enough to be #2 should be enough for Ireland to pick the player at #1 when he and Liverpool don't have a great track record there at all. It also coincided with the time Kelleher probably would have benefitted most from getting a loan or two in. if he had, he'd probably be Ireland #1 now.

It isn’t just Klopp that thinks that. Kelleher’s performances for Liverpool have won praise from pundits, journalists, former players and fans. These judgements are based on his actual performances not on hypotheticals. Yeah, we’d all like him to be playing more often, but we should him on the games he’s played not the ones he hasn’t.

[nigel-harps1954]

A goalkeeper can do all the training in the world, with the best coaches, and the best players, but nothing in football substitutes game time on the pitch for a goalkeeper, more so than any other position on the pitch. Saying this as someone who has played in goal and outfield, albeit at a low level, you cannot possibly be up to full match sharpness as a goalkeeper without playing regularly.

Kelleher is a very talented young goalkeeper, but he's at an age where he need regular game time for his own career progression. It's all well and good saying you're number two for a huge club like Liverpool, but it's just not good enough either to be a regular starter at international level if you're not coming into camp with match sharpness.

[ColourfulPeanut]

Is there any comparison of success stories of keepers who followed Kelleher's career path so far?

[seanfhear]

I think we are pretty much in agreement Kelleher must play games and soon ~ by soon I mean this year, though it may be next season ( but still this year ) probably on loan ~ all the better if he plays quite a few games this season mind.

[ontheotherhand]

It isn’t just Klopp that thinks that. Kelleher’s performances for Liverpool have won praise from pundits, journalists, former players and fans. These judgements are based on his actual performances not on hypotheticals. Yeah, we’d all like him to be playing more often, but we should him on the games he’s played not the ones he hasn’t.

Sure so have Bazunu's for Ireland and Portsmouth We have two impressive young keepers. One is just getting to impress more often and that's the issue for Kelleher.

[ontheotherhand]

3 I should say! Poor Travers...

[pineapple stu]

You wonder why Kelleher never went out on loan actually. Is it just that he got kind of fast-tracked into the Liverpool first-team setup when they had the goalkeeping issues with Karius and Adrian? I do get the feeling when he was originally promoted to the bench, it was because there was no-one else and conceding ten goals in his first two games may show he wasn't up to it, but the Chelsea game in particular would suggest he's there on merit now.

Or was there an element that at, say, 19 he was behind in development but has caught up since?

[seanfhear]

You wonder why Kelleher never went out on loan actually. Is it just that he got kind of fast-tracked into the Liverpool first-team setup when they had the goalkeeping issues with Karius and Adrian? I do get the feeling when he was originally promoted to the bench, it was because there was no-one else and conceding ten goals in his first two games may show he wasn't up to it, but the Chelsea game in particular would suggest he's there on merit now.

Or was there an element that at, say, 19 he was behind in development but has caught up since?
The only way to find out is for Kelleher to play games.

[tommy_c12000]

3 I should say! Poor Travers...

Absolutely. Although he left in 3 today, he was not at fault for any of them and was probably Bournemouth’s best player (wasn’t hard though). He looks like a transformed goalkeeper to me than the one I saw at the start of the season. Commanding the area well, much better with corners/crosses etc, and solid distribution. He’s the goalkeeper currently playing at the highest level and needs to be in any conversation about irelands number 1

[Stuttgart88]

Is there any comparison of success stories of keepers who followed Kelleher's career path so far?Emi Martinez?

[Stuttgart88]

Absolutely. Although he left in 3 today, he was not at fault for any of them and was probably Bournemouth’s best player (wasn’t hard though). He looks like a transformed goalkeeper to me than the one I saw at the start of the season. Commanding the area well, much better with corners/crosses etc, and solid distribution. He’s the goalkeeper currently playing at the highest level and needs to be in any conversation about irelands number 1
I only saw second half. One smart save and dealt well with two really bad back passes. Showed an outfielder’s touch in each case. Though I can’t see reason to fault him Bournemouth regularly seem at 6s and 7s from crosses and I can’t help wonder if he shouldn’t be taking more responsibility.

[Jd2793]

You wonder why Kelleher never went out on loan actually. Is it just that he got kind of fast-tracked into the Liverpool first-team setup when they had the goalkeeping issues with Karius and Adrian? I do get the feeling when he was originally promoted to the bench, it was because there was no-one else and conceding ten goals in his first two games may show he wasn't up to it, but the Chelsea game in particular would suggest he's there on merit now.

Or was there an element that at, say, 19 he was behind in development but has caught up since?


yeah i dont think this is far off the mark, speculating but still makes the most sense to me given he was 14 ish when he made the switch to GK.

[third policeman]

You wonder why Kelleher never went out on loan actually. Is it just that he got kind of fast-tracked into the Liverpool first-team setup when they had the goalkeeping issues with Karius and Adrian? I do get the feeling when he was originally promoted to the bench, it was because there was no-one else and conceding ten goals in his first two games may show he wasn't up to it, but the Chelsea game in particular would suggest he's there on merit now.

Or was there an element that at, say, 19 he was behind in development but has caught up since?

Clearly there on merit and you have a point about development. Has also no doubt benefitted from training with Allison and good coaches. I’d like to see Kenny rotate the goalies in the NL and friendlies, so they both or all get experience. My Liverpool affiliations may make me biased, and I do recognise Bazunu’s ability and potential, but Kelleher radiates calm and assurance. Two LFC fans I know suggested that he actually looks more secure than Allison, and that spreads to the rest of the defence. He won’t displace him because of the money Liverpool paid for Allison, and that’s his biggest problem. He knows he’ll have to move on at some point, but at the minute he’s not doing his reputation any harm and that will help him get a move to a higher level. At this moment in time, I would suggest that a promoted PL club or even mid table club, would take a chance on Kelleher rather than Bazunu irrespective of how many games the latter has played in League 1 and for us.

[Stuttgart88]

I just jinxed Martinez