Caoimhín Kelleher GK Brentford b.1998

[Bielsa´s irish]

Kelleher is better dressed in black gear or dark grey dark blue ....they couldnt target the keeper
no red yellow they know where he is

[Razors left peg]

Those two games were in October, he's played 13 games since then (2 for Ireland, 11 for Portsmouth), keeping nine clean sheets (v Bolton, Harrow, Lincoln, Gillingham, Sheffield Wednesday, Morecambe, and Cambridge for Portsmouth, V Portugal and Luxembourg for Ireland), and hasn't conceded more than once in a game since Accrington scored twice on Saturday, 23rd October.

Anyone who's watched him since then would say he's improved since those two games against Rotherham and Ipswich in October.

Imagine that a 19 year can actually improve... who would have thunk it!

[tetsujin1979]

There's some who would say the opposite

[Razors left peg]

There's some who would say the opposite

Based on some of the nonsense thats being spouted on here there are a few alright

[John83]

There's some who would say the opposite
[citation needed]

[Bielsa´s irish]

One point on Bazunu is he wears dark clothing as a keeper, also makes sense, Kelleher too, they were well schooled by someone like the irish version of Bilardo, you cant leave any detail out. I Remember Alan Kelly used awful goalkeepers jerseys, easy target. Dean Kiely was another dude who used darker goalkeeping clothing as Bonner , dont remember for Given

[tetsujin1979]

Pretty sure all players wear the jerseys they're told to wear

[Bielsa´s irish]

Pretty sure all players wear the jerseys they're told to wear
yeah it could be that one, did i tell you the story about the Le Coq Sportif marine blue jersey vs England in 1986? do you know the story? thats Bilardo, he never left any tiny detail at luck, as a medicine doctor he was always on the details, he won the world cup and almost a consecutive one

[Bielsa´s irish]

1986. La historia de la camiseta azul contra los ingleses | El Gráfico (elgrafico.com.ar) (https://www.elgrafico.com.ar/articulo/1088/4944/1986-la-historia-de-la-camiseta-azul-contra-los-ingleses)

El secreto de la remera azul argentina ante Inglaterra en México '86 - Con números de la NFL - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpDmNE2JaC8)

La increíble Historia de la CAMISETA de ARGENTINA �� (Mundial México 1986) - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGOoJjSKhXI)

he wanted openwork collars, or V neck for the jerseys for the players to have a better breathing in Mexico because of the high place, and the french company gave them blue lovely jerseys but with rounded neck collars, he said the players couldnt breath there ..

Jack Charlton was another guy who would never leave anything out of thought

[Razors left peg]

Just when ya thought things couldn't get any weirder on here!

[John83]

Kelleher could play every game for Ireland - Achterberg

Liverpool goalkeeping coach John Achterberg believes that Caoimhin Kelleher "could play every game for Ireland" as his development into a top class shot-stopper continues apace...
Full article (https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022/0111/1272967-kelleher-could-play-every-game-for-ireland-achterberg/) [rte.ie]

[mypost]

Those two games were in October, he's played 13 games since then (2 for Ireland, 11 for Portsmouth), keeping nine clean sheets (v Bolton, Harrow, Lincoln, Gillingham, Sheffield Wednesday, Morecambe, and Cambridge for Portsmouth, V Portugal and Luxembourg for Ireland), and hasn't conceded more than once in a game since Accrington scored twice on Saturday, 23rd October.

Anyone who's watched him since then would say he's improved since those two games against Rotherham and Ipswich in October.

I'm sure he has improved, he's not been short of chances. Evidence was asked, and it was provided. The fact is if he makes those errors against that level of opposition, then he's capable of similiar when he's playing for us, or worse. There's lots more room to hide your errors in L1, than the glare of the top level of international football. His age is an irrelevance. If he's old enough to hold the shirt, he's old enough to be held accountable.

Kelleher got to see what it's like to face L1 standard against Shrewsbury. He did everything he had to do and the game was a walkover. Better still, he's had a run of games recently, to satisfy those who insist that we don't see enough of him.

[Stuttgart88]

Actually what you said was that when he loses possession it's a goal. That's what you were asked to back up. The mistakes were there for all to see, as has been the reaction to those mistakes.

He's not been sort of chances, that's true. That's because he's been playing games and a manager who sees him week in week out decided to retain him and his decision has been rewarded with a string of strong performances.

At the level we need him to play at - international football- he has done very well. His saves from Mitrovic and in Luxembourg were simply excellent. I think the 4 points we got from those games would have been hard to achieve without them.

We've now seen, what, 3 or 4 games recently from Kelleher. So far so good. 6 goals conceded mind you.

[pineapple stu]

Actually what you said was that when he loses possession it's a goal. That's what you were asked to back up.
I think just to add to that, he made two bad mistakes in Portugal - a loose pass which led to the penalty, and a fumble of a fairly tame shot. He saved the penalty and the fumble hit the post. So there are clear instances where he has lost possession and it hasn't led to a goal. You could even argue his recovery to claim the loose ball off the post is exactly the sort of recovery he's crediting Kelleher with.

Like you though, I won't hold my breath waiting for mypost to acknowledge he's wrong.

[ontheotherhand]

Only one of them kept a clean sheet against Shrewsbury recently.

It's funny reading back over this thread. There's absolutely 0 anti Kelleher sentiment. None at all. If you read the least few pages you'd think there were knives out for him. It's a long thread monitoring the progress of a young Irish keeper. The general feeling seems to have been that he wasn't setting the world alight in PL2, league cup or Irish U-21 games but looked promising. Mistakes were being made but people accepted that at his age. That changes when he plays against Ajax in the CL and people seem to see a big improvement. I'd say that gives weight to the argument that training with Liverpool is as good as playing at a lower level but maybe we will see the same jump from Bazunu at age 21/22. The good reports carry through his next few senior appearances until the overall take is that he should be at least #2 for Ireland and was potentially a better choice than Randolph at that time. Most people thought he needed a move to stake a claim as first choice somewhere but he signed a new contract at Liverpool instead. Then Bazunu sort of explodes on to the scene and Kelleher is unfortunate to miss his chance to be #1.

A few posters who hitched their wagons to Kelleher now seem to need to criticize Bazunu despite apparently not watching him play for club or country. Maybe it's just anti-Kenny sentiment bubbling up. There's always an obviously better player the manager is blanking due to incompetence. Of course Kenny had Kelleher for the u-21s and clearly rates him so that doesn't really hold water. He knows him better than we do. Kelleher will get his chance for Ireland if/when Bazunu slips up or gets injured. He looks more than capable of holding on to it but I wouldn't write off Bazunu's chances of improving in the meantime either.

[tetsujin1979]

does the amount of clean sheets in recent games for Bazunu mean he hasn't lost possession in any of those games?

[John83]

Come on tets, let's stay on topic. This is a Kelleher thread, not a shooting mypostfish in a barrel thread.

[ontheotherhand]

https://punditarena.com/football/andrewdempsey/shay-given-kelleher-gavin-bazunu-ireland/

Shay Given joins the anti-Kelleher brigade.

[Stuttgart88]

I think just to add to that, he made two bad mistakes in Portugal - a loose pass which led to the penalty, and a fumble of a fairly tame shot. He saved the penalty and the fumble hit the post. So there are clear instances where he has lost possession and it hasn't led to a goal. You could even argue his recovery to claim the loose ball off the post is exactly the sort of recovery he's crediting Kelleher with.

Like you though, I won't hold my breath waiting for mypost to acknowledge he's wrong.I think you might be taking it a bit literally. I think we all know it was a daft claim.

Yes, he made errors and yes he rode his luck. He also made some really great saves at key times in big games. We all agree that.

ontheotherhand is bang on though. There's no agenda against Kelleher and no need for any positive Kelleher comment to be accompanied by a criticism of Bazunu. There's only an anti-bullsh1t agenda. Forensic analysis of either's performance will show good and bad. It's what you'll expect with young goalkeepers.

[pineapple stu]

I think you might be taking it a bit literally. I think we all know it was a daft claim.
Yeah - just sometimes I guess the best way to highlight really a daft claim is to take it literally and show it's not true. I think the combination of what you've said and what I've said and what tets has said should really put what mypost said to bed, but...

[ontheotherhand]

Yeah - just sometimes I guess the best way to highlight really a daft claim is to take it literally and show it's not true. I think the combination of what you've said and what I've said and what tets has said should really put what mypost said to bed, but...

sigh.

[seanfhear]

https://punditarena.com/football/andrewdempsey/shay-given-kelleher-gavin-bazunu-ireland/

Shay Given joins the anti-Kelleher brigade.
In fairness if it looks like Kelleher won’t be playing much for Liverpool next season then he needs a loan move or a move. By then he will be heading for 24 at and that age ya want to be realistically fighting for the Number 1 jersey and playing very regularly.

[mypost]

He's not looking at a move. He's quite happy where he is, and he gets rewarded for his patience. Nobody wants to leave Liverpool atm, even the likes of Origi wants to stay where he is.

Maybe when Bazunu is his age, and upgraded to No. 3 at City, he'll get to understand how it feels to sit on the bench every week.

Bazunu isn't criticised for making a few good saves. Kenny is criticised for playing him while he is playing week in week out at an awful level of football against awful footballers, when we have an alternative option at an EPL club. If Kelleher is good enough to play for Klopp, he should be more than capable of doing a job for Kenny against the best players in the world.

[sadloserkid]

At this stage, and I've no real skin in the game, the most likely explantion to ms for this weird vitriol towards Bazunu is that he snubbed mypost is some way when he was at Rovers.

It's almost impressive that somebody can get so irate about the whole thing.

[seanfhear]

He's not looking at a move. He's quite happy where he is, and he gets rewarded for his patience. Nobody wants to leave Liverpool atm, even the likes of Origi wants to stay where he is.

Maybe when Bazunu is his age, and upgraded to No. 3 at City, he'll get to understand how it feels to sit on the bench every week.

Bazunu isn't criticised for making a few good saves. Kenny is criticised for playing him while he is playing week in week out at an awful level of football against awful footballers, when we have an alternative option at an EPL club. If Kelleher is good enough to play for Klopp, he should be more than capable of doing a job for Kenny against the best players in the world.
Why would a fella by age say 24 stay at a club if, say there was very little chance of him becoming number 1 goalkeeper. That would be showing a serious lack of ambition. I mean he could go out on loan , be sold with a buy back clause. If you don’t think you deserve to be number 1 at a club at age 24 then I think it would have to be said, that you are lacking the real ambition necessary to be a Number 1 Goalkeeper.

[third policeman]

Why would a fella by age say 24 stay at a club if, say there was very little chance of him becoming number 1 goalkeeper. That would be showing a serious lack of ambition. I mean he could go out on loan , be sold with a buy back clause. If you don’t think you deserve to be number 1 at a club at age 24 then I think it would have to be said, that you are lacking the real ambition necessary to be a Number 1 Goalkeeper.

Maybe his ambition is to be Liverpool number 1. If it is, he’s not doing himself any harm at the moment. Made PL team of the week after the Chelsea game.

[ontheotherhand]

At this stage, and I've no real skin in the game, the most likely explantion to ms for this weird vitriol towards Bazunu is that he snubbed mypost is some way when he was at Rovers.

It's almost impressive that somebody can get so irate about the whole thing.

From what I recall from the Rovers forum he rarely went to games so I'm not sure even that could explain it.

[seanfhear]

Maybe his ambition is to be Liverpool number 1. If it is, he’s not doing himself any harm at the moment. Made PL team of the week after the Chelsea game.
A chat with Klopp before next season to see how a realistic a proposition that is would hardly hurt. A chat with his coaches / advisors about the same would also be a good idea. He should of course have a good chance of working out how viable that really is himself also.

Thing is, he could move to another club and the next week Allison could get a long term injury but hanging about waiting for that to happen could end up like ~ Waiting for Godot ! !

[third policeman]

A chat with Klopp before next season to see how a realistic a proposition that is would hardly hurt. A chat with his coaches / advisors about the same would also be a good idea. He should of course have a good chance of working out how viable that really is himself also.

Thing is, he could move to another club and the next week Allison could get a long term injury but hanging about waiting for that to happen could end up like ~ Waiting for Godot ! !

By being number 2 and getting games he’s more likely to get a decent loan or move. Paradoxically i’d say he’s got better visibility in England than Bazunu even though he is playing less football.
His status and recognition is pretty high on the basis of where he is and what he has shown when given the chance.

[Supreme feet]

My two cents:

Bazunu:
Upsides: has played brilliantly for Ireland over the last year against a high level of opposition, shirt is his to lose. Big presence, calm, excellent shot-stopper, and only 19. Playing week-in, week-out.
Downsides: The odd blunder here and there for Portsmouth, as you might expect from a teenager. Not as quite as good as Kelleher with the ball at his feet, but still very quick and accurate with his distribution. Very much unproven at the highest club level.

Kelleher:
Upsides: Getting first-team experience at the highest level. Excellent distribution. Very good reflexes and anticipation. Good shot-stopper.
Downsides: Needs to bulk up. Looks a bit small in stature and presence, compared to Bazunu; doesn’t seem to fill the goal as naturally. Has been beaten a bit too easily for my liking, notably against Arsenal last season and Leicester a few weeks ago. He was very weak-handed for Shrewsbury’s disallowed goal on Sunday. But then, playing for a massive club, your shortcomings are always magnified. And maybe regular football would iron those things out.

Glad we have them both, but I think Bazunu just about has the higher ceiling. There’s very little to separate them on reflexes, anticipation, defensive organisation, and shot-stopping. Kelleher has better distribution, but Bazunu is a physical freak.

I remember there was a good old battle between Alan Kelly and Shay Given between 1998 and 2000 - if Given was off-form or not getting his game, Kelly was picked. I can see the same happening with the two lads. We’re genuinely lucky to have them, and I wish we had the same kind of quality in any outfield position.

[ontheotherhand]

By being number 2 and getting games he’s more likely to get a decent loan or move. Paradoxically i’d say he’s got better visibility in England than Bazunu even though he is playing less football.
His status and recognition is pretty high on the basis of where he is and what he has shown when given the chance.

I think that's all fair but Bazunu was just recognized in Marca as one of the most exciting prospects in world football...I think he's getting plenty of visibility with the quality of saves he has been making. It didn't hurt that a few of them were against Ronaldo of course but his save against Luxembourg went a long way around the web.

Both are in a great spot right now. I'd still rather Kelleher was playing every week. I'm not sure why that's seen as controversial to be honest. He's good enough to be a #1 based on what we've seen (although I haven't seen him pull off any truly remarkable saves yet) and it would be better for Ireland if he was.

[sadloserkid]

Yeah the notion that if Kelleher was to, for example, replace Schmiechel at Leicester and play 38 league games next season it would be a step backwards for him shouldn't be seen as outrageous.

[John83]

Yeah the notion that if Kelleher was to, for example, replace Schmiechel at Leicester and play 38 league games next season it would be a step backwards for him shouldn't be seen as outrageous.
We could hope that, just after the transfer window closes and while exiting a helicopter, Allison sees some friends of his he's really excited to see and waves to them if we're going to dream up near-best-case scenarios.

[pineapple stu]

We could ask if Allison could be made me a bit lame in one leg during the middle of the weekend. You know, something beggable, but not leprosy, which is a pain in the arse, to be blunt

[DeLorean]

Looks likely that Alisson will play tonight - https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022/0112/1273384-becker-may-get-nod-over-kelleher-for-carabao-cup-semi/

[Stuttgart88]

Looks likely that Alisson will play tonight - https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022/0112/1273384-becker-may-get-nod-over-kelleher-for-carabao-cup-semi/So Alisson is now their EFL Cup keeper. Kelleher promoted.

[seanfhear]

So Alisson is now their EFL Cup keeper. Kelleher promoted.
A bit of a slap in the teeth for Kelleher all the same. The number 1 needs some game time ~ Step aside Number 2.

By next season Kelleher should actively want to have the responsibility / pressure of being a Number One Goalkeeper ~ Ya never know if someone is capable of being a number 1 goalkeeper until he plays a considerable number of games there ~ How does anyone know that he can handle that until he actually passes the test that he can handle it.

[JR89]

A bit of a slap in the teeth for Kelleher all the same. The number 1 needs some game time ~ Step aside Number 2.

Well that is the life of being a back up keeper. Hopefully for him Allison only plays in the first leg to get minutes before the Brentford game and Kelleher comes back in for the second leg and possible final.

[seanfhear]

Well that is the life of being a back up keeper. Hopefully for him Allison only plays in the first leg to get minutes before the Brentford game and Kelleher comes back in for the second leg and possible final.
Probably why most ambitious goalkeepers really want to be Number 1 even if it meant going on loan ~ I am more talking about next season to be fair.

[DeLorean]

Alisson hasn't played in 16 days and that'll only change to 19 if they delay his return until their home match with Brentford on Sunday, a match that even if he has a rusty nightmare they'll probably still win.

I'd imagine the sniff of a trophy has become more of a factor for Klopp, and you couldn't blame him too much for that, especially with the league situation. A positive result tonight and Kelleher might come back in for the 2nd leg, but if the tie is in the balance I wouldn't be so sure.

If they make the final it really would test the notion that "Caoimhin is the goalkeeper for this competition".

[pineapple stu]

Probably why most ambitious goalkeepers really want to be Number 1 even if it meant going on loan ~ I am more talking about next season to be fair.
Yeah, can't see anything happening this season alright - especially with covid making things far more uncertain. Liverpool can't afford to lose Kelleher given he could be needed at very short notice if Allisson were to test positive again.

[EAFC_rdfl]

Alisson hasn't played in 16 days and that'll only change to 19 if they delay his return until their home match with Brentford on Sunday, a match that even if he has a rusty nightmare they'll probably still win.

I'd imagine the sniff of a trophy has become more of a factor for Klopp, and you couldn't blame him too much for that, especially with the league situation. A positive result tonight and Kelleher might come back in for the 2nd leg, but if the tie is in the balance I wouldn't be so sure.

If they make the final it really would test the notion that "Caoimhin is the goalkeeper for this competition".

Hopefully that would put it clear for him that he needs to get the finger out and force a move for start of next season.

[tommy_c12000]

Back on the bench in the league cup against arsenal. Relying on an Alisson injury for any more senior game time for the remainder of the season I’d imagine. Not for me

[pineapple stu]

I don't know - Champions League is back next month, so a couple of domestic Cup runs and he'll probably be back in for them. But it's really not ideal alright.

[elatedscum]

not ideal at all but he'll play next thursday in the second leg

[Razors left peg]

not ideal at all but he'll play next thursday in the second leg
Why would he play 2nd leg if he didnt play the 1st?

[pineapple stu]

Well they've a league game at the weekend and Alisson hasn't played in three weeks, so it seems they want to ensure he's match sharp for the weekend. Once he's back to regular league games, you can leave the cup to Kelleher.

Not saying that will happen, but it's certainly possible.

[Razors left peg]

I wouldnt hold my breath. This close to a final Id expect Klopp to pick his best team

[elatedscum]

I wouldnt hold my breath. This close to a final Id expect Klopp to pick his best team

Klopp said Alisson was only playing due to a lack of match sharpness - to get a game before the league game this weekend. The interview he did certainly implied that Kelleher would play next week

[mypost]

My two cents:

Glad we have them both, but I think Bazunu just about has the higher ceiling. There’s very little to separate them on reflexes, anticipation, defensive organisation, and shot-stopping. Kelleher has better distribution, but Bazunu is a physical freak.

With the focus on playing out from the back, distribution is a key element. Bazunu has already seen a penalty conceded because of his distribution issues. We got away with it then, but that's no guarantee we will when it happens the next time. Against Serbia, he ran out to clear the ball and completely missed it. He was almost beaten in injury time from a very long range free kick. When Kelleher races out to clear, he always clears it away from danger.

Kelleher didn't play against Arsenal last season, not even in the League Cup tie. Against Leicester, he had no chance with the pot shot from 30 yards. But he's already saved 3 penalties in the League Cup this season, and may be needed to save more.