Caoimhín Kelleher GK Brentford b.1998

[geysir]

Surely we can all agree how satisfying it was to see Kepa utterly trash his (self-declared?) reputation for being a shoot out specialist? What he did in 2019 was pathetic.
I know it was Tuchel who made some claim about Kepa being the best penalty stopper at Chelsea, was that it?
In a vain attempt to break the hoodoo didn't the Netherlands substitute their goalie before a WC finals penalty shoot out?

Caoimhin received royal praise in the Iceland sporting press, I can't remember ever seeing an Irish player highlighted in such manner since Keane for Man U.

[seanfhear]

I know it was Tuchel who made some claim about Kepa being the best penalty stopper at Chelsea, was that it?
In a vain attempt to break the hoodoo didn't the Netherlands substitute their goalie before a WC finals penalty shoot out?

Caoimhin received royal praise in the Iceland sporting press, I can't remember ever seeing an Irish player highlighted in such manner since Keane for Man U.
How come Caoimhin is so big in Iceland ? ?

[joey B]

Anything Liverpool or United will get extra attention,just the way sports media works I suppose…

[Bielsa´s irish]

In the broadcasting on Sunday on espn Argentina the narrator said that Kelleher used to play as number 9, and he still does when playing kickabout in training for Liverpool, is that really accurate?

[Bielsa´s irish]

Scores the cup winning penalty. Not a bad Sunday for Kelleher.

good penalty taker too!!! Sent the keeper the wrong place with a dummy movement

[John83]

In the broadcasting on Sunday on espn Argentina the narrator said that Kelleher used to play as number 9, and he still does when playing kickabout in training for Liverpool, is that really accurate?


Yes. He converted in his early teens, I think.

[third policeman]

He needs to be playing games lads. He is big enough and old enough.

Define need. Do you mean if he's not playing regularly in The Championship or League 1 then he won't be able to deal with the pressure of a big high pressure game. Well that's clearly not true. Agree, it would be better if he was playing more regularly, but he's still clearly a very talented goalkeeper who is perfectly capable of doing a job for us in international games.

[Eirambler]

.................Travers
Talbot Bazunu Westwood O'Leary
....McDermott Randolph Pym
O'Hara...............................Maher
.................Kelleher

I'd be happy enough heading to the Nations League with that. Stick John O'Shea on the bench to cover them all.

Missed out Jack Bonham as well. Starting for Stoke tonight.

So no need for O'Shea.

[pineapple stu]

Bonham can play the bodhran in the stand surely?

[Diggs246]

Bonham can play the bodhran in the stand surely?
Your bigger then that

[seanfhear]

Define need. Do you mean if he's not playing regularly in The Championship or League 1 then he won't be able to deal with the pressure of a big high pressure game. Well that's clearly not true. Agree, it would be better if he was playing more regularly, but he's still clearly a very talented goalkeeper who is perfectly capable of doing a job for us in international games.
To be honest he has not been tested as a regular goalkeeper yet. How will he cope with that responsibility ? How will he recover from the mistakes that are bound to happen when a goalkeeper is playing regularly especially a young goalkeeper ? None of these can be answered until he is playing regularly. For people like myself ( and maybe yourself as well ) who have followed football for years ~ ~ I have seen many examples of reserve goalkeepers step in for awhile and everybody thinks they are great and well able to handle it and yet after awhile it becomes all too clear why they are the back-up goalkeeper. Long term playing is the only way to answer these questions.

[Bielsa´s irish]

To be honest he has not been tested as a regular goalkeeper yet. How will he cope with that responsibility ? How will he recover from the mistakes that are bound to happen when a goalkeeper is playing regularly especially a young goalkeeper ? None of these can be answered until he is playing regularly. For people like myself ( and maybe yourself as well ) who have followed football for years ~ ~ I have seen many examples of reserve goalkeepers step in for awhile and everybody thinks they are great and well able to handle it and yet after awhile it becomes all too clear why they are the back-up goalkeeper. Long term playing is the only way to answer these questions.
So with your logic Travers should be #1 at this very moment.

[seanfhear]

So with your logic Travers should be #1 at this very moment.
He is certainly playing consistently a pretty high level and playing well. Between him and Bazuna at the moment I reckon.

[texidub]

Well he won't be going out on loan any time soon, according to Klopp's latest statement:

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022/0301/1283822-klopp-we-have-no-intention-of-sending-kelleher-on-loan/

[Eirambler]

He actually kind of rows back on it in his comments further down and suggests that he will have to go on loan, either next year or the year after. And he clearly will either have to go on loan or leave at some point before long, he can't just be the Liverpool number 2 for ever.

Disappointing that he's not getting the cup game tomorrow night, if Allison stays fit we might not see much more of Kelleher for Liverpool this season.

[samhaydenjr]

Define need. Do you mean if he's not playing regularly in The Championship or League 1 then he won't be able to deal with the pressure of a big high pressure game. Well that's clearly not true. Agree, it would be better if he was playing more regularly, but he's still clearly a very talented goalkeeper who is perfectly capable of doing a job for us in international games.

He needs to face more shots, more crosses, more one-on-ones in a competitive situation, to become a better all-round keeper. There's nothing better than games at this point of a young player's career to accelerate their development and Kelleher's only played 19 for club and country. Travers and Bazunu have quickly racked up over 70 each and are both far more consistent than they were after their respective 19th games. Kelleher's doing very well with the time he's being given and I am certainly OK with him playing internationally but I reckon he needs to get to at least 50 appearances under his belt to start to fully reach his potential and right now he's crawling towards that.

[elatedscum]

He needs to face more shots, more crosses, more one-on-ones in a competitive situation, to become a better all-round keeper. There's nothing better than games at this point of a young player's career to accelerate their development and Kelleher's only played 19 for club and country. Travers and Bazunu have quickly racked up over 70 each and are both far more consistent than they were after their respective 19th games. Kelleher's doing very well with the time he's being given and I am certainly OK with him playing internationally but I reckon he needs to get to at least 50 appearances under his belt to start to fully reach his potential and right now he's crawling towards that.

Hopefully one more game tomorrow night

[Jd2793]

travers is still no3.

[seanfhear]

travers is still no3.
That is looking less credible by the game that Travers is playing and doing well in. Even to Travers and Bazuna it would be a bit bizarre if a guy who had just played 19 senior games was getting a game before them. I would say that Kelleher is 3rd now behind both Bazuna and Travers.

A footballer / goalkeeper has to be playing games if at all possible ~ ~ thats what it says on the tin.

[third policeman]

That is looking less credible by the game that Travers is playing and doing well in. Even to Travers and Bazuna it would be a bit bizarre if a guy who had just played 19 senior games was getting a game before them. I would say that Kelleher is 3rd now behind both Bazuna and Travers.

A footballer / goalkeeper has to be playing games if at all possible ~ ~ thats what it says on the tin.

So you would have played McDermott ahead of Randolph? It’s a balance. Of course it would be preferable if Kelleher was playing more games, but the form and ability he has sown when he has played count for something. He’s proved he can play in ultra high pressure games against top opposition. Travers, with respect, has not done that yet. And if you were to apply the ‘must be playing regularly’ test to the rest of our selections, I shudder to think what kind of team we’d be putting out.

[seanfhear]

So you would have played McDermott ahead of Randolph? It’s a balance. Of course it would be preferable if Kelleher was playing more games, but the form and ability he has sown when he has played count for something. He’s proved he can play in ultra high pressure games against top opposition. Travers, with respect, has not done that yet. And if you were to apply the ‘must be playing regularly’ test to the rest of our selections, I shudder to think what kind of team we’d be putting out.
Travers and Bazuna are playing at a decent level ~ Particularly Travers ~ The Championship is a good competition particularly when you are doing well in a team at the top of it.

How many of Kelleher’s games could be questioned as league cup games / dead rubbers in Europe. How many of his games could be considered as important as games fighting for promotion from the Championship for example ?

[third policeman]

All of which misses the point completely. Whenever he has played, he's been impressive and that's been recognised by fans, pundits, former players, journalists etc but strangely not by some people on this forum. So, there is more than reasonable evidence to suggest that he would be equally impressive if he was playing for us. I have already said, it would be preferable if he was playing more regularly, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be a serious contender for our number 1 goalkeeping position.

[JR89]

That is looking less credible by the game that Travers is playing and doing well in. Even to Travers and Bazuna it would be a bit bizarre if a guy who had just played 19 senior games was getting a game before them. I would say that Kelleher is 3rd now behind both Bazuna and Travers.

A footballer / goalkeeper has to be playing games if at all possible ~ ~ thats what it says on the tin.

Kelleher is closer to being first choice than he is third choice. Travers is a great shot stopper, but his distribution is the weakest of all three.

[seanfhear]

All of which misses the point completely. Whenever he has played, he's been impressive and that's been recognised by fans, pundits, former players, journalists etc but strangely not by some people on this forum. So, there is more than reasonable evidence to suggest that he would be equally impressive if he was playing for us. I have already said, it would be preferable if he was playing more regularly, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be a serious contender for our number 1 goalkeeping position.
He needs to be playing more games from next season if he wants to be the Irish number One especially considering how much his competition goalkeepers are playing.

[third policeman]

Still not convinced by that argument. It's not how much they are playing that's relevant, it's how well they are playing. I acknowledge that both are doing well at the minute, and Bazunu has been impressive when he's played for us. All I am saying is that we should use the upcoming games to rotate the keepers, and not rule out Kelleher, because he is playing fewer games. I don't see that as an unreasonable position.

[seanfhear]

Still not convinced by that argument. It's not how much they are playing that's relevant, it's how well they are playing. I acknowledge that both are doing well at the minute, and Bazunu has been impressive when he's played for us. All I am saying is that we should use the upcoming games to rotate the keepers, and not rule out Kelleher, because he is playing fewer games. I don't see that as an unreasonable position.
I am certainly not against giving Travers and Kelleher a game in the upcoming Nations league / Friendly Games ~ ~ Why Not ?

[SkStu]

Seanfhear, while i am in agreement with you on the arguments being made, his name is Bazunu, not Bazuna. It is not a hard name to get right.

[seanfhear]

Seanfhear, while i am in agreement with you on the arguments being made, his name is Bazunu, not Bazuna. It is not a hard name to get right.
Mea Culpa.

[SkStu]

Meu Culpu...

[kennedmc]

I've been very impressed by Kelleher so far. The pressure and intensity of playing for one of the biggest clubs in the world must be huge. Liverpool have 50,000,000 plus supporters around the globe.

Being subject to that level of scrutiny / spotlight and putting in those performances have been fantastic. Will hold him in good stead over the next 15 years of his career as keepers can play comfortably now to late 30s.

[third policeman]

I suppose the thought experiment here is what happens if Bazunu goes back to City next season and becomes their No 2. Would he cease to be the preferred choice of his current advocates because he wasn't playing enough games?

[ontheotherhand]

Still not convinced by that argument. It's not how much they are playing that's relevant, it's how well they are playing. I acknowledge that both are doing well at the minute, and Bazunu has been impressive when he's played for us. All I am saying is that we should use the upcoming games to rotate the keepers, and not rule out Kelleher, because he is playing fewer games. I don't see that as an unreasonable position.

It's a very reasonable position. I think there's two separate questions here:

1. Which goalkeeper is the best choice for Ireland right now?

2. What would be best for Kelleher in terms of his development?

On 1, I'd have no problem seeing Kelleher start for all the reasons you and others have given. If we didn't have a wunderkind (shudder) gk with so much time on his side then I'd pick Kelleher now. It's close as Travers probably deserves a go too but....I think Kelleher maybe edges it based on how they've both done for Ireland. That said, Bazunu took his chance and looks like a phenomenal prospect who might be even better given more games and by the time he is 23. Given that we are sort of building a team for future tournaments that has to come into the equation too.

On 2, I get the argument that maybe Kelleher needed something different and he's certainly not in a bad spot BUT I don't see why people find it controversial at all for some of us to say he should go get himself a #1 spot. I think that would help him experience more scenarios (see the situation recently where he made a mess of coming out and should have been sent off) and also, if he really is as good as he has looked (most of the time), it would secure the Ireland jersey for him now.

Here's a completely not serious one for you - if Kelleher really does play up front in training, with Salah and against Virgil, then is he our de facto best option up front, ahead of the lads playing at a lower level? I'm not saying that's the same scenario because he's playing games but....he'd be learning from the best at one of the best clubs in the known and unknown universe etc. So how much weight do we give that over game time?

[ontheotherhand]

I suppose the thought experiment here is what happens if Bazunu goes back to City next season and becomes their No 2. Would he cease to be the preferred choice of his current advocates because he wasn't playing enough games?

But he would have played enough games....

[third policeman]

To respond to your final question. None whatsoever. It's a beautiful attempt at an analogy (not serious), but there is no visible evidence that he is any good playing up front, whereas his goalkeeping skills are very much in evidence. I started art classes back in November, the teacher was brilliant, so were the other students, I learned a great deal from them. The principle lesson being that I was pretty useless.

[ontheotherhand]

To respond to your final question. None whatsoever. It's a beautiful attempt at an analogy (not serious), but there is no visible evidence that he is any good playing up front, whereas his goalkeeping skills are very much in evidence. I started art classes back in November, the teacher was brilliant, so were the other students, I learned a great deal from them. The principle lesson being that I was pretty useless.

Pretty useless might still get you a game up front for Ireland.....

[third policeman]

Is there a mathematical answer to what constitutes enough? Will the fact that Bazunu and Travers will always have have played more games make them more qualified, or is there a figure that Kelleher has to reach to establish quits? It's all a bit hazy. I think he has established by virtue of what he has already done, that he's ready to play regular international football.

[third policeman]

Pretty useless might still get you a game up front for Ireland.....

Fair point.

[ontheotherhand]

Is there a mathematical answer to what constitutes enough? Will the fact that Bazunu and Travers will always have have played more games make them more qualified, or is there a figure that Kelleher has to reach to establish quits? It's all a bit hazy. I think he has established by virtue of what he has already done, that he's ready to play regular international football.

I think a season of football would be good for him but Im also not saying he isn't good enough to play for Ireland. He's just not the clear cut choice. He might be if he had a few seasons behind him and had been fit to take his chance.

[SkStu]

The debate has definitely become more interesting. I have been, and remain at this point, firmly in the "Bazunu keeps the jersey" camp. He owns it, has not let us down in green and is playing notably well at club level. Kelleher has made ground though, and significantly so, in the last couple of months. While his body of work is limited to an extent, he has played in more high profile games at club level than Bazunu has (notwithstanding that Bazunu has Portugal away under his belt). Not sure that high profile means as much in terms of the gaps between first team appearances but it means something and i certainly would not have any issues if Kelleher's services were required for Ireland, for whatever reason. His profile and performances keep the pressure on Bazunu to perform in green which hopefully is a positive thing all round.

[elatedscum]

He might be if he had a few seasons behind him and had been fit to take his chance.

had he been fit to play against Serbia and/or Luxembourg and had he matched Bazunu's performances, he'd be the undisputed first choice, so would Travers if he had taken his opportunity against Serbia and continued with the same performances as Bazunu had.

I think Bazunu has basically has had 10 good games, conceding 7 goals, keeping 4 clean sheets.

Do I think Kelleher has the ability right now to produce similar performances? Yes. Hard to imagine he could have done much better than Bazunu did during those games.

Going forward, I suspect it'll be performances for Ireland along with fitness that will dictate opportunities for the 3 keepers...

[Razors left peg]

Kelleher is doing well in the games he has been given for Liverpool, but for the argument that at this stage of his career that 5 or 6 games per season is enough because he is playing at a big club, I would ask at what point do people think he needs to play regular football?

We all agree he is a good keeper, but some of us continue to think he would get better by playing every week. Travers has improved massively with regular games. Should he wait until hes 25, 28, 35 before he looks to be 1st choice somewhere? If Allison wasnt so young I think his situation would be less of an issue, but as it stands he is the oldest of our 3 keepers and has played by far the least amount of football. Hes not a kid anymore, he needs to aspire to being more than a back up

[ontheotherhand]

had he been fit to play against Serbia and/or Luxembourg and had he matched Bazunu's performances, he'd be the undisputed first choice, so would Travers if he had taken his opportunity against Serbia and continued with the same performances as Bazunu had.

I think Bazunu has basically has had 10 good games, conceding 7 goals, keeping 4 clean sheets.

Do I think Kelleher has the ability right now to produce similar performances? Yes. Hard to imagine he could have done much better than Bazunu did during those games.

Going forward, I suspect it'll be performances for Ireland along with fitness that will dictate opportunities for the 3 keepers...

Yeah that's how I feel at this stage. Kelleher has answered some but not all of the questions around him and I've seen enough to think he would have done really well for Ireland if he'd been available to take the chance. Bazunu is a freak though and he's gone in and done brilliantly. The lad is 19 ffs. It's scary how good he might be even by 23.

I'm still very much in the camp of us having 3 good options, 2 of whom are potentially world class.

[Jd2793]

Kelleher is doing well in the games he has been given for Liverpool, but for the argument that at this stage of his career that 5 or 6 games per season is enough because he is playing at a big club, I would ask at what point do people think he needs to play regular football?

We all agree he is a good keeper, but some of us continue to think he would get better by playing every week. Travers has improved massively with regular games. Should he wait until hes 25, 28, 35 before he looks to be 1st choice somewhere? If Allison wasnt so young I think his situation would be less of an issue, but as it stands he is the oldest of our 3 keepers and has played by far the least amount of football. Hes not a kid anymore, he needs to aspire to being more than a back up

why do you think all he aspires to be is a back up? hes a 23 year old gk at one of the best club teams of the last decade. the idea he should turn his nose up at that alone, to play for a lower league team just so he can play some games is mad. he has outgrown the loan market and will in all likelihood be sold when liverpool see fit. He is the oldest but as a ive said on numerous occasions hes the one who started playing in goal the latest of the 3. he had a whole pile of catching up to do. Bazunu made his senior debut as a 16 year old, CK hadnt 2 years of gk coaching behind him at that point. for one reason or another liverpool didnt loan him out when it was rumoured(?) 2 years ago. their development of him cant be questioned imo, theyve nurtured him well and havent rushed him into anything.t.He will need game time eventually, he'll know that, he's not stupid. But I honestly dont see it as a negative that he wanted to be a no2 at this stage of his career, at a team of this stature.

[Razors left peg]

why do you think all he aspires to be is a back up? hes a 23 year old gk at one of the best club teams of the last decade. the idea he should turn his nose up at that alone, to play for a lower league team just so he can play some games is mad. he has outgrown the loan market and will in all likelihood be sold when liverpool see fit. He is the oldest but as a ive said on numerous occasions hes the one who started playing in goal the latest of the 3. he had a whole pile of catching up to do. Bazunu made his senior debut as a 16 year old, CK hadnt 2 years of gk coaching behind him at that point. for one reason or another liverpool didnt loan him out when it was rumoured(?) 2 years ago. their development of him cant be questioned imo, theyve nurtured him well and havent rushed him into anything.t.He will need game time eventually, he'll know that, he's not stupid. But I honestly dont see it as a negative that he wanted to be a no2 at this stage of his career, at a team of this stature.


If he started playing later its more important that he actually plays football. Again I ask the question at what age do you think he needs regular football?

[Jd2793]

If he started playing later its more important that he actually plays football. Again I ask the question at what age do you think he needs regular football?

When hes 25. Liverpool wont be risking a loan move they'll sell when his stock is high. Cant see him there in 2 years time.

[Razors left peg]

His stock wont get much higher than it is right now so it would be a good time to sell if they got good offers. Im not sure how much of a market there would be for a 25 year old goal keeper who has had about 10 total career games

[joey B]

Not starting tonight unfortunately….

[Crosby87]

Is the name pronounced "kevin?"

[pineapple stu]

No

It's pronounced Caoimhín

[SkStu]

Is the name pronounced "kevin?"

Keeveen or Kweeveen depending on where in the USA you are based.