U23 players 2019/20

[Eirambler]

Given how unlikely it is that we would qualify for the World Cup via the Nations League we really do need to use it to tie down any of the up and coming players there's any uncertainty about. Definitely number one on that list for me is Smallbone.

While he's miles from the city team Joe Hodge is another I would like to see confirmed for us. Yes, it's cynical, but we've been burned once too often at this stage.

Kenny is a big fan of Hodge and he'll be 18 by them so it's a possibility.

[jbyrne]

Given how unlikely it is that we would qualify for the World Cup via the Nations League we really do need to use it to tie down any of the up and coming players there's any uncertainty about. Definitely number one on that list for me is Smallbone.

While he's miles from the city team Joe Hodge is another I would like to see confirmed for us. Yes, it's cynical, but we've been burned once too often at this stage.

Kenny is a big fan of Hodge and he'll be 18 by them so it's a possibility.

caps should be earned and not used in this way.
by capping declan rice in this way we would have ended up with a player who's heart wasn't in it and who was pinning for another country..... what use would that have been?

[Eminence Grise]

I know what you're saying. But if we get a reputation for being serious about tying players down we might also end up with fewer Rices and Grealishes messing us around. Not interested in a call up for a competitive senior game? Wave bye-bye to any more caps from us at any level. At least we'd know quickly whose heart was in it. And free up places in underage squads for players who'd have missed out otherwise.

The other reason I'm OK with it is that it gives a profile to players on the fringes of Premiership teams. Even if they never make it at their club, as internationals they're less likely to drop below the Championship, and end up as squandered potential or spend a third of their career dragging themselves back up, rarely to the top level. I suppose I'd rather see us speculate on players with 15 years ahead of them than stake the house on journeymen in the last stages of their prime.

[elatedscum]

caps should be earned and not used in this way.
by capping declan rice in this way we would have ended up with a player who's heart wasn't in it and who was pinning for another country..... what use would that have been?

i honestly think if Declan (and Jack to a certain extent) had been capped for us earlier, he would have totally happily and commitedly played for us. once someone willingly has made an irreversible decision, they buy into it because it's been made. it took a process of Gareth Southgate putting pressure, along with John Terry, numerous people throughout his club including the owners, his agent and his sponsor (at the time, Nike) - coinciding with England, a country he's lived in his whole life reached the semi final of the world cup for the first time since 66 (i guess) and the mass hysteria that swept the nation. it took all of those factors to turn his head.

if he had played with us, he'd probably have been a 100 cap lad, who captained us to the Euros and World Cups - he'd be revered forever here. Instead, he's gone down a different path. Even if England never do well at a tournament and even if Declan only ends up with 30 or 40 caps, he probably won't regret it either, for the exact same reason...

[Olé Olé]

On this point, I was checking if Achraf Hakimi was playing for Spain or another country as I saw his name in an article today. At the age of 18 he made his debut for Morocco's under 20, under 23 and senior sides. And he is born and bred in Spain. Hats off to them on the escalation.

[nigel-harps1954]

I don't think Kenny will be the type of manager to throw out caps for the sake of it. He's very much in the boat of "I only want committed players" and has spoken that he won't be chasing anyone. He'll treat a friendly as if it were a competitive game.

[elatedscum]

Idah, Smallbone both on the bench tonight. Along with Obafemi starting (Long is out injured).

Would love to see all 3 crack on over the next 9 games and become real first team players...

[liamoo11]

Idah, Smallbone both on the bench tonight. Along with Obafemi starting (Long is out injured).

Would love to see all 3 crack on over the next 9 games and become real first team players...

Josh Martin it seems may also be eligible who is on bench tonight https://www.pinkun.com/norwich-city/josh-martin-s-norwich-city-story-so-far-1-6677237

[Eirambler]

Obafemi was solid but not spectacular, got an assist on the second half but messed up a two on one as well.

Idah, Smallbone and Josh Martin all got minutes off the bench. Smallbone was probably the liveliest of the three but it was all Southampton so Idah didn't have a chance really. Had one long range shot I think.

[liamoo11]

I thought idah had a good chance that he dragged wide few mins after coming on. Obafemi had some lovely hold up play and touches certainly looks ready to play alot more for us at senior level. Will Simon power be eligible for Norwich or has he played for too many teams this season?

[Olé Olé]

I thought idah had a good chance that he dragged wide few mins after coming on. Obafemi had some lovely hold up play and touches certainly looks ready to play alot more for us at senior level. Will Simon power be eligible for Norwich or has he played for too many teams this season?

Would be more worried the last side he lined out for was King's Lynn than I'd be worried about the number of sides.

[CraftyToePoke]

Lee Frecklington & Liam Kelly were loaned to similar level clubs early on in their careers though. Its not great, but might not be the end of him either.

[Olé Olé]

Not saying it's the end of his career at all, at all. I'm saying it is difficult to imagine him getting PL game time if that is where he last lined out.

[ColourfulPeanut]

Lee Frecklington & Liam Kelly were loaned to similar level clubs early on in their careers though. Its not great, but might not be the end of him either.
The lad is 22 and was playing in the 6th tier this year.I would say any aspirations of an international level career are over.

[elatedscum]

The lad is 22 and was playing in the 6th tier this year.I would say any aspirations of an international level career are over.

Tell that to Jamie Vardy ;)

[tetsujin1979]

Tell that to Jamie Vardy ;)

very much the exception that proves the rule.

[elatedscum]

very much the exception that proves the rule.

Scott Hogan?

[SkStu]

Scott Hogan?

The exception to the exception that proves the rule.

[CraftyToePoke]

The lad is 22 and was playing in the 6th tier this year.I would say any aspirations of an international level career are over.

I didn't mention anything about an international career.

[elatedscum]

The exception to the exception that proves the rule.

Ian Wright? (This is gonna get pretty tiring pretty soon)

[tetsujin1979]

That's three footballers. Could you get to ten?
I'm not saying he won't, I'm saying, historically, the odds are against him.

[CraftyToePoke]

Steve Finnan - Welling Utd, all four divisions all the way to a CL winners medal.

Chris Smalling / Joe Hart both did ok from non league too.

It does happen plenty.

[elatedscum]

John Aldridge
Yannick Bolasie
Les Ferdinand
Ashley Williams

The likes of Sam Clucas, DJ Campbell, Michail Antonio, Charlie Austin and Jimmy Bullard would have been internationals if they were irish.

[elatedscum]

Re Power

He’s a lad who’s track record to date is:

2nd tier in Ireland - stood out
Reserve football in Uk - positive reports
2nd tier in Netherlands - positive reports
Top tier in Scotland - couldn’t break into the team
6th tier in England - stood out

It’s a weird trajectory but loans are often a little weird, especially if Norwich asked for a club to guarantee game time...

I thought he struggled for the u21s in Toulon along with guys like Mallon and Wilson but both of the other two have developed positively since then...

He’s got raw raw pace which is an untrainable asset and if he was to have a successful season in League 1 or League 2 next season, that would be a platform to build off...

[CraftyToePoke]

That's three footballers. Could you get to ten?.

Stuart Pearce, Peter Crouch, Danny Ings, Ashley Williams, Charlie Austin, Jimmy Bullard, Troy Deeny, Dwight Gale, Rickie Lambert, Kevin Phillips, Grant Holt.

[tetsujin1979]

and how many footballers played non league football over the course of the careers of those players?
There's 24 team in the national league, with 23 squad players each comes to 552 players. Over ten years, let's say 2000 players have appeared in the NL (and that's probably low). You were able to name ten that made it to the top level.
The odds are very much against him.

[pineapple stu]

and how many footballers played non league football over the course of the careers of those players?
Ah you're changing the rules of your own question now tets.

The odds are against most footballers at that age.

[tetsujin1979]

Gavin Bazunu training with the Man City first team.
Don't think there's too much to be read into it, as stated by Guardiola below. they brought in youth players who live in Manchester to help with training. Anyone who had returned to their home countries (Spain, USA, etc) were allowed to stay home
1273006493437251584

[Eirambler]

Jimmy Dunne on the bench for Burnley and could make his Premier League debut tonight. Kevin Long also on the bench though, he might be ahead of Dunne if they need a centre back sub.

Burnley are not playing players whose contracts are running out (including Hendrick) and have only named seven subs out of a possible nine, including two keepers. So not that big an achievement to make the bench, but with only five outfield subs on the bench and five substitutions allowed, a decent chance of game time.

[Eirambler]

City 4-0 up after 50 minutes. Probably not the night to be blooding young players but Dunne is unlikely to be any worse than the Burnley starting centre backs tonight.

[CraftyToePoke]

Tarkowski looking like he got through lockdown on pizza and Mee having a real struggle.

[Eirambler]

Kian Flanagan the next man out the door, let go by Crystal Palace. Was once the brightest prospect in their academy but hasn't kicked on for some reason. Hard to know how it will go for him from here - the kind of player that could either rebuild his career in the lower leagues and make it back to the top or could have fallen out of the game completely in a year or two.

Hopefully a club at around League 1 level takes a chance on him and he can get some senior game time. This is not the best year to be looking for a lower league club though, nearly everyone is cutting back at that level.

[tetsujin1979]

Flanagan had a trial with Southend earlier in the season, but nothing came of it.
Wasn't happy that there's no real link between their U23/reserve side and their senior side - https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/palace-youngsters-frustrated-at-pace-of-progress-through-the-ranks/

[elatedscum]

Any time I’ve seen him play for u18s and u23s, probably over the last 5 years, I thought he was excellent - generally the best player on the pitch. Has needed first team football for a long time...

definitely someone who could kick in quickly if he hits the ground running at his next club

[tommy_c12000]

COVID-19 provides an unexpected opportunity for our young Irish players? A silver lining. What do people think?

Clubs have reduced financial resources, and will remain cautious with contracts and transfer fees given the ongoing uncertainty of the course of COVID. Older players less likely to get the short term contracts they would have pre-COVID. Delayed season ending, trimming many squads to bare minimum with expanded subs permitted. Clubs will turn to youth out of necessity rather than by choice. We are already seeing Masterson reap the benefits of this. Fantastic opportunity for our youth players! Hopefully, LOI can restart soon also and continue the development of youth players within our national system

[Eirambler]

Two more out the door, Conor Tee at Leicester and Aaron O'Driscoll at Southampton have both been let go.

On the upside Boric is leaving Bournemouth. If they go down Ramsdale might be sold and Travers could get a run at the keeper spot.

[liamoo11]

Two more out the door, Conor Tee at Leicester and Aaron O'Driscoll at Southampton have both been let go.

On the upside Boric is leaving Bournemouth. If they go down Ramsdale might be sold and Travers could get a run at the keeper spot.

Thanks. O Driscoll could still have a fine career great education at city and Southampton really needed to get out on loan this season like o connor did so successfully at gillingham .

[Olé Olé]

Dan Rose - the kid that has signed for Schalke from Everton- was interviewed by the Athletic, alongside his father. It turns out his mother is Irish. It also turns out Kenny is taking a fantastic and hands-on approach with our underage players.

From the article:
That potential is recognised widely. Rose is dual-national — Neil is English and Orla, his mother, is Irish — and he played in the Republic of Ireland’s Under-17 European Championship qualifying fixtures last year, when they topped their group (the finals, planned for this month, have been cancelled). He has also attended camps with England and there has been contact with Tim Dittmer, the FA’s head of goalkeeping. “I get the impression they’ve been monitoring him for some time,” Neil says.

Neil recently received a call from Stephen Kenny, Ireland’s new senior manager. “The phone went and I almost dropped cold on the floor,” he says. “Stephen was great; lovely, really friendly. He wanted to know what Dan had enjoyed about Ireland to date, about the transfer to Schalke and how it was going to work, where he was going to live and so forth.

“He talked about how he was really hoping Dan could show his quality this year and was looking forward to seeing what the future might hold with Ireland. He said he’d got his coaches looking out for him. It’s clear that Stephen wants to influence all the under-age teams, so that he can see where there may be players moving through and where they might make an impact in due course. He wished Dan all the best.”

Perhaps, somewhere down the line, another decision will be required, although for now, Rose’s mind is set. “I can play for both Ireland and England, but at the moment Ireland is the country I want to play for,” he says. “They’ve put their faith in me and I think they deserve my loyalty back. That’s what I feel. There are some good Irish keepers at the moment, especially in the first team, but hopefully I can be in that set-up quite soon.”

[Eirambler]

Really encouraging stuff from Kenny.

Rose, I suspect, may not stay with us. Too many "at the moment" comments in the interviews I've seen from him recently.

[Olé Olé]

Grealish and his representatives were starting and finishing every sentence with those three words throughout his teens.

[Eirambler]

Smallbone starts for Southampton. Hopefully Kenny has been in touch with him in a similar way to what he has done with Rose.

Looking back at it now it's surprising that he didn't take him to Toulon last year given that some of the players from that squad look nowhere near Premier League or even Football League standard in a few cases a year on.

[Olé Olé]

Looks like he assisted Ings for the first but came off for Armstrong on 65 minutes.

[samhaydenjr]

Smallbone starts for Southampton. Hopefully Kenny has been in touch with him in a similar way to what he has done with Rose.

Looking back at it now it's surprising that he didn't take him to Toulon last year given that some of the players from that squad look nowhere near Premier League or even Football League standard in a few cases a year on.

Yes, at this point a call-up for one or more of the Nations League games would be justified, particularly if he plays a part in Southampton's remaining games, so Kenny should definitely be talking to him about making that final commitment.

[elatedscum]

Looking back at it now it's surprising that he didn't take him to Toulon last year given that some of the players from that squad look nowhere near Premier League or even Football League standard in a few cases a year on.

i suppose the number 8 / number 10s were: Molumby, Ronan, Knight and Taylor. All of whom have had very successful seasons.

I think Mandriou is the only other player to be called up (as far as I remember, Brandon Kavanagh was a late call up for the first squad against Luxemburg but I think Smallbone would have been in Russia with the u19s when that happened). Mandriou is as talented as anyone in the squad. Whether he'll work hard enough over the next few years is probably a different matter - and you could easily see him regress rather than progress but Mandriou could easily be playing week in, week out in the championship right now...

Parrott played in the No.10 role at some point too when Ronan was injured.

Anyway, great to have all those options coming through - I'd think Smallbone merits a call-up to the senior side on the back of his current performances.

[CraftyToePoke]

Any time I’ve seen him play for u18s and u23s, probably over the last 5 years, I thought he was excellent - generally the best player on the pitch. Has needed first team football for a long time...

definitely someone who could kick in quickly if he hits the ground running at his next club

Any idea yet on where he might be going next ?

[Olé Olé]

Manning got an assist for QPR and Flashscore have him down as playing central midfield.

[Olé Olé]

Connolly has a thankless task here so far tonight. The first half has seen Brighton's midfield disappear and Connolly live off clipped long balls from the back three of Brighton. He's won a few frees which have been about the only platform Brighton have had to gain a little territory.

[tommy_c12000]

Molumby rested. Hopefully, millwall will continue to play him for the rest of the season, now that they have nothing to play for they may be tempted to develope their own players.

Masterson dropped after 2 poor performances, with Cameron replacing him (usually plays defensive midfield) - if Masterson can’t hold down a centre back spot for the rest of the season when there’s only 2 “true” centre backs available then you have to be pessimistic about his long term prospects.

Collins selected at right back again by Michael O’Neill and replaced after 71 minutes - 3-0 down to Wigan. Really disappointing to see Collins not being given a proper chance at centre back, considering the poor performances from Batth, Chester (who was inexplicably brought in on loan), Indi; and the fact Shawcross looks past it and is struggling with injuries.

Connolly isolated, Maupay joins him for second half. Frustrating to watch. Apart from picking up a couple of his trademark free kicks, and one nice layoff...he hasn’t done anything.

Overall, poor night for our youngsters

[Eirambler]

Something of a forgotten man in terms of our young attacking players but Ryan Cassidy has been offered a two year contract extension by Watford. He would probably benefit from them being relegated to be honest.

[liamoo11]

Something of a forgotten man in terms of our young attacking players but Ryan Cassidy has been offered a two year contract extension by Watford. He would probably benefit from them being relegated to be honest.

That's great it seems to have been a quite season for him