LoI Fixture 6-7 April

[sbgawa]

How could his actions be seen as NOT contributing to what happened ?

[White Horse]

How could his actions be seen as NOT contributing to what happened ?

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[Nesta99]

Up until Friday evening I was of the opinion that Rovers fans were deluding themselves that Bradley was progressing with his team. Not doing badly but not much in the way of improving year on year and certainly not heading to the level the board would want and need ie European qualification and the revenue involved. I know it was one game but it was the most complete performance by Rovers under Bradley imo. Disciplined both on the pitch and sideline and bar the well known weakness between the posts it would have been a different result. Both sides were unlucky hitting the woodwork and not taking some of the better chances but all in all an even game. Id even say the ref had a good game overall.

If Bradley can get more of the same from his team then qualification for Europe wont be a problem by November. Sort out the keepers and get some consistancy going but not a whole lot wrong. Maybe another manager might be getting more from the same players but by Bradley is learning on the job after all himself. Its the first time that that I feel it wasnt Rovers lifting their game in a one off type way and that they are now not that far off a challange. Good bet for the cup! The fly in the ointment for Rovers and getting in to Europe is Waterford's unexpected position. Small squad and short term loans might see them fall away but if still going strong come July then Power might see to extend loans and strengthen the squad. Derry are lurking too and their home form has to be noted but yet to see them play. Not so sure of Pats being much more than midtable and safe this season. So as Rovers do take a stride forward there are more in genuine contention for Europe. It might be short term but the 10 team format is so far so good.

[sbgawa]

Agree so far so good on the 10 team format. Also it leads to a lot of matches that really matter every week.

Agree 're rovers have come on but the next few games are important. Bohs bray limerick....
Still think Waterford are overachieving but then t hats what they said about Leicester:)

[Ezeikial]

Agree so far so good on the 10 team format. Also it leads to a lot of matches that really matter every week.

Agree 're rovers have come on but the next few games are important. Bohs bray limerick....
Still think Waterford are overachieving but then t hats what they said about Leicester:)

Most would expect Rovers to get 9 points from those 3 games - at home to Bohs and Limerick with an away trip to Bray in between.

It's the next four league games that are more likely to be the sticky ones
Derry City (A)
Cork City (H)
St Pats (A)
Waterford (H)

If these results go astray Rovers could easily sit in 5th or 6th place by the middle of May

[sbgawa]

Really ? If rovers results go astray they could be 1 place or two behind where they are now .....tx for the insight .

If we win them all will we be higher then we are now ? I'm not great on maths :)

[Ezeikial]

Really ? If rovers results go astray they could be 1 place or two behind where they are now .....tx for the insight .

If we win them all will we be higher then we are now ? I'm not great on maths :)

There's no need to be so tetchy - I'm simply pointing out to you that next 3 games are relatively easy and it's the four that follow that will be a big test.

I also agree with the thrust of what Nesta has said about the reasons for optimism for Rovers fans based on the teams performance last Friday, although I have doubts about consistency being maintained.

[sbgawa]

Fair enough

[buzz442]

Actually can already hear Dave Barry....."if hery had left the ball alone nothing would have happened "

.............................and he would be spot on!

[sbgawa]

a ten point deduction for both teams will stamp this out.

[osarusan]

Hery should never be allowed to play for Waterford again and should instead be forced to return to his former club, wherever it was.

[PartySaint]

Bray were an absolute disgrace on Friday.

[pineapple stu]

Yeah, but Pats started it

[sbgawa]

Shels should have a deduction as well what was heary even doing there ?

[disgruntled]

a ten point deduction for both teams will stamp this out.

Some wishful thinking there I would say 😁

[disgruntled]

I really can't understand why Rovers didn't sort out the keeper problem during the close season ?
If they had they could be top by now.
They were doing very well at Turners Cross until Horgan had his moment of madness.
Likewise against Waterford & Dundalk keeper problems cost them points.
At this moment Dundalk are probably the most organised side & continue to get results despite not playing particularly well at times.
Cork City should be doing much better than they are but they have yet to settle down.
I don't see Waterford keeping up their present form because of their small squad but if they make it to July who knows what might happen.

[sbgawa]

Its easy with hindsight wondering how come we didn't sign someone but Horgan played well towards the end of last season and was apparently flying pre season hence he started the first game.
Interesting listening to Conan Byrne on GLITW podcast saying that both keepers were good keepers but confidence is the problem.
reminded him of Mignolet and Karius at Liverpool situation.
Its a truly **** position goalkeeper nowhere to hide, you'd have to be mad to want to play there.

Id agree with your summary Dundalk are super organised its hard to see them losing a game at the moment but every team generally has a bad spell at some point.

[El-Pietro]

McNulty must have some turn of pace to get in to the mix as quickly as he did.




In fear of being accused of being obsessed by Mark McNulty - how fast is the chap??

Assuming this is a genuine question - hes actually very fast. Consistently one of the fastest players in bleep tests etc. Think he finished first this off season.

[placid casual]

Sbgawa, it was plain as anything for those watching games in Tallaght last year that neither goalkeeper was good enough to sustain a credible title challenge, and Bradley did ****all about it. He was quick to get bolger and Boyle, but did nothing about the guy between the sticks. We won't win the league because of it, and are in danger of missing out on euro qualification.

[Burnsie]

Went to see Pats v Bray on Friday as a fairweather neutral.

Bray were dire - amazing to think that half the team was the same as when I'd watched them a year earlier (e.g., Kenna, Douglas, McCabe, Greene, Sullivan - and maybe others who I wouldn't have recognised). Without wanting to reignite the goalkeeping deabte, I always thought Peter Cherrie was among the best in the country - has he been the biggest loss for them?

Anyway, on Friday it was crazy to see how easily Pats played through them at times. McCabe up top on his own during the first half was like a fish up a tree.

Pats played with a big of swagger and took a couple of the goals very nicely but nobody will be judging them on the basis of that display. Madden was impressive at fullback, and Toner made it look easy in central defence.

Anyway, from a personal perspective, it was good to get back to an LOI match and see some decent football being played by at least one team. Hoping to get to the Dublin Derby next week. Would there be any difficulty getting a ticket on the night?

[sbgawa]

I thought Horgan did well towards the end of the season and hoped he would continue to improve.
I am still hoping but I can see why others wouldnt feel like that.
Hopefully one of them gets some confidence and starts performing or we maybe get a new keeper in july
The problem is once a keeper makes a couple of mistakes it piles the pressure on, youd have to be mad to want to be a keeper.

[sbgawa]

Went to see Pats v Bray on Friday as a fairweather neutral.

Bray were dire - amazing to think that half the team was the same as when I'd watched them a year earlier (e.g., Kenna, Douglas, McCabe, Greene, Sullivan - and maybe others who I wouldn't have recognised). Without wanting to reignite the goalkeeping deabte, I always thought Peter Cherrie was among the best in the country - has he been the biggest loss for them?

Anyway, on Friday it was crazy to see how easily Pats played through them at times. McCabe up top on his own during the first half was like a fish up a tree.

Pats played with a big of swagger and took a couple of the goals very nicely but nobody will be judging them on the basis of that display. Madden was impressive at fullback, and Toner made it look easy in central defence.

Anyway, from a personal perspective, it was good to get back to an LOI match and see some decent football being played by at least one team. Hoping to get to the Dublin Derby next week. Would there be any difficulty getting a ticket on the night?

no difficulty getting a ticket it won't sell out.
Buy a ticket for the East or West stand on sale at a kiosk outside the main shop (you walk past the shop and its on your left) assuming you want to be in with the home support. If you want to be in with the Bohs fans the kiosk is at the square end of the ground, you can't miss it....the police horses normally stand there :)

[PartySaint]

Sbgawa, it was plain as anything for those watching games in Tallaght last year that neither goalkeeper was good enough to sustain a credible title challenge, and Bradley did ****all about it. He was quick to get bolger and Boyle, but did nothing about the guy between the sticks. We won't win the league because of it, and are in danger of missing out on euro qualification.


I can't see Rovers finishing outside the top 4, I don't think ourselves or Derry are consistent enough to finish above you

[brendy_éire]

This needs drastic action before we are cut adrift.

Sligo were very poor on Saturday night, didn't look like scoring all night. It was a comfortable victory for Derry, though a bit of fortune had for both the goals. Patterson's free kick took an awful deflection, and I'm not sure what Schlingermann was at for the second, seemed to slip under him when he really should have collected it.

That's five wins a row for ourselves now. It was also our first league win in Sligo since 2009, which is a pretty mad stat when you think about it.

[sulywaterfordfc]

Technically speaking Hery was defending himself from a pitch invader tackling him 👀👀👀👀👀

[Charlie Darwin]

I noticed Aaron Bolger was on the bench in Oriel and also last week against Sligo - there is hardly much difference in study time being on the subs bench as opposed to playing - unless he take his school books into the dugout

Does he also play for the under19's or has he been excused this to allow for Leaving Cert study?
Well there's a different in how you perform and how long you can perform. The lad is concentrating on his studies and can still take part in football but not full time. Not sure where you're getting the idea he was excused from football from.

[Ezeikial]

Well there's a different in how you perform and how long you can perform. The lad is concentrating on his studies and can still take part in football but not full time. Not sure where you're getting the idea he was excused from football from.

From seeing him on the bench in Oriel Park last Friday, I obviously knew he was still involved.

You seemed to indicate that because of his Leaving Cert Rovers were not playing him - hence my question about whether he was playing for the U-19s.

It seems that he is being called upon for both u-19 and senior team, just not being selected for the first team ahead of others

[pineapple stu]

Jayz, watching the Slovakia goal in women's highlights on Soccer Republic there, you'd wonder if there's something in the water in Tallaght when it comes to goalkeeping.

[Crosshead]

Yet another deflection. Hery was a typical footballer and reacted. Hewould have been dealt with by the ref, most probably a yellow card as per the rules. It was a non incident until JC entered the field. That is the facts. JC caused it. Hery would not have had a chance to react if JC wasn't there. JC should get a lengthly ban for it. He instigated the whole situation. It was entertaining to watch, and even more entertaining is the the defending through deflection of the golden boy by Cork fans.

Hery instigated it by walking over and pushing the ball out of griffins grip. Saw the footage tonight on SR, he's nowhere near Griffin at first when he is trying to take the throw. Hery jogs over, dislodges the ball and dribbles it out onto the pitch. It's then Caulfield goes to retrieve it. Caulfield shouldn't have, but to suggest that he instigated the whole thing when Hery came over to get involved, and was the first to raise his hands, is nonsense.

[GCdfc]

Hery instigated it by walking over and pushing the ball out of griffins grip. Saw the footage tonight on SR, he's nowhere near Griffin at first when he is trying to take the throw. Hery jogs over, dislodges the ball and dribbles it out onto the pitch. It's then Caulfield goes to retrieve it. Caulfield shouldn't have, but to suggest that he instigated the whole thing when Hery came over to get involved, and was the first to raise his hands, is nonsense.

As said before, Hery would have been dealt with as a player on the pitch.

JC was the cause of all that followed.

[micls]

As said before, Hery would have been dealt with as a player on the pitch.

JC was the cause of all that followed.

I genuinely don't understand this logic. JC played his part, no question, but the sole cause?

Using the same logic, if Hery hadn't pushed JC, JC would have been dealt with by the ref without any further issues. He'd have been given a red for encroaching, or a warning. Time would have been wasted, game would have gone on without any brawl or further issues.

The idea that there's 1 thing and 1 thing alone that caused it is nonsense to me.

Hery played a part and JC played a part in causing it. The others thar got involved should have known better too,but wasn't a surprise.

[GCdfc]

I genuinely don't understand this logic. JC played his part, no question, but the sole cause?

Using the same logic, if Hery hadn't pushed JC, JC would have been dealt with by the ref without any further issues. He'd have been given a red for encroaching, or a warning. Time would have been wasted, game would have gone on without any brawl or further issues.

The idea that there's 1 thing and 1 thing alone that caused it is nonsense to me.

Hery played a part and JC played a part in causing it. The others thar got involved should have known better too,but wasn't a surprise.

So the ref shouldn't handle the players on the pitch? That's his job. It's JC's job to stay off the pitch. If JC let the ref deal with Hery, the melee wouldn't have happened. Hery was time wasting and it's an unfortunate aspect of the game. It was up to the ref to deal with it, not JC. Apologies for the logical approach I take.

[micls]

Of course the ref should handle the players on the pitch. Who said otherwise? The ref (or 4th official) should also handle managers than encroach. This fits perfectly with your own logic, surely? At every point it was up to the ref to deal with. Reynolds shouldn't have kicked the ball away (which is why he got sent off apparently, which seems harsh), JC shouldn't have gone on the pitch, he should have let the ref deal with it. Hery shouldn't have pushed JC, he should have let the ref deal with it. Buckley, Beattie et al shouldn't have piled on, they should have let the ref deal with it. Same with the other side.

Everyone involved didn't pay a blind bit of attention or respect to the ref, Aborah even got into his face. They were all in the wrong in doing so. They should be punished accordingly.

I simply disagree with the assertion that Caulfield not letting the ref deal with the time wasting forced all the other responses, as some have claimed. As if the grown men on the pitch can't control themselves and its just a set of dominos with no control.

The brawl was a result of two things imo, JC going on the pitch to get the ball, instead of letting the ref deal with it, and Hery getting violent about it, instead of letting the ref deal with it. The push got everyone else involved. Personally, I'd view the push as worse than the encroachment, but as I said I'd expect the disciplinary committee to treat them both as instigators and fairly similarly.

[micls]

I'm gonna leave it there, because I'm sure the rest of the league is bored to tears with the back and forth on this. It's clear we fundamentally disagree on it. We'll just have to see what the disciplinary committee decides.

* I lied. Sorry!

[gormacha]

In fear of being accused of being obsessed by Mark McNulty - how fast is the chap??

Lightning, in fairness. Last pre-season, we were playing Cork down in the RSC. Seani Maguire was on the receiving end of a very poor and dangerous tackle just on the edge of the centre circle in Waterford's half. That's the furthest most point of the circle away from the Cork end. The first Cork player to arrive on the scene to remonstrate with the offending Waterford player was McNulty. Now that's fast.

[gormacha]

I'm gonna leave it there, because I'm sure the rest of the league is bored to tears with the back and forth on this. It's clear we fundamentally disagree on it. We'll just have to see what the disciplinary committee decides.

Not that it really matters, and you won't change your mind, but just to say that pretty much everyone outside of CCFC who has commented on this episode - not just WFC supporters - has reasonably pointed out that nothing out of the ordinary happens until Caulfield enters the pitch, and that's the key to it all. I genuinely find it astonishing that even as a fan of the club that this is so hard to admit to. It's possible to love your club and still be able point out when it or one of it's people are responsible for something.

[El-Pietro]

Not that it really matters, and you won't change your mind, but just to say that pretty much everyone outside of CCFC who has commented on this episode - not just WFC supporters - has reasonably pointed out that nothing out of the ordinary happens until Caulfield enters the pitch, and that's the key to it all. I genuinely find it astonishing that even as a fan of the club that this is so hard to admit to. It's possible to love your club and still be able point out when it or one of it's people are responsible for something.
BUt we have all admitted that Caulfield did wrong. No one is suggesting he didn't. We just think Hery is the one who escalates it into violence. You are just choosing to believe that its Caufields fault Hery pushed him.

If Hery didn't push Caufield no one would have been sent off, JC would have gotten a warning and thats it. If Hery pushes Caufield and no one else reacts Hery still gets sent off.

[gormacha]

BUt we have all admitted that Caulfield did wrong. No one is suggesting he didn't.

With respect, that is not the tone of the responses, and it is significant that you refer to "we", as all the CCFC support seems to have precisely the same view, which is in contrast to how most everyone else is apportioning blame. Doesn't that strike you as odd? Doesn't it possibly suggest a rather blinkered view of the incident?

The straw man argument keeps getting advanced that somehow Héry is being given a pass. He wasn't, and he won't be. He'll be correctly heavily punished.

[Olander]

And if Caulfield hadn't acted like a cretin and encroached the pitch, none of it would have kicked off and Hery might've got a yellow card for time wasting.

[Scrufil]

Having seen the incidents on Soccer Republic it occured to me that the reaction of Héry towards Caulfield was one that would normally indicate some very vile words were directed Hėry's direction by the Cork manager. Hence Héry reacted in a manner not too disimiliar to a person being abused in a race hate manner. This is a conjecture on my part and my reading of the matter. It is not a good image for the game. I think there actually is a good possibility of a single point deduction for both sides.

[El-Pietro]

And if Caulfield hadn't acted like a cretin and encroached the pitch, none of it would have kicked off and Hery might've got a yellow card for time wasting.
If you want to go down that road take a look at all the people on the pitch after Waterfords winner. Should all of those have been sent off? Every single sub?

[El-Pietro]

With respect, that is not the tone of the responses, and it is significant that you refer to "we", as all the CCFC support seems to have precisely the same view, which is in contrast to how most everyone else is apportioning blame. Doesn't that strike you as odd? Doesn't it possibly suggest a rather blinkered view of the incident?

The straw man argument keeps getting advanced that somehow Héry is being given a pass. He wasn't, and he won't be. He'll be correctly heavily punished.

I say "We" to refer to those arguing the point here. It hasn't just been Cork City fans either, though we are in the majority. Take a read through again.

[Nesta99]

And if Caulfield hadn't acted like a cretin and encroached the pitch, none of it would have kicked off and Hery might've got a yellow card for time wasting.

Thats a bit harsh. Caulfield is the type of manager that others can like to dislike but a manager that if at one of our own clubs would be revered for his staunch passion for his club. For all the finger pointing I can understand why Crok fans would feel that his role wasnt as the biggest culprit. He was being idiotic but not in a cretinous way, and not in a way that we wouldnt see many managers or players on the sidelines react when chasing a game, especially in a derby and what is a very close league. When the last free kick in Oriel for Rovers and Bolger was trying to steal a few yards, the manager, assistant and Hoban were all up pointing on where the free should be taken from. Bolger had to move the ball back 3 times - if we hadnt been clinging on to the result a metre here or there wouldnt have mattered much to anyone. Ok it wasnt exactly encroaching on to the pitch to place the ball which would have undoubtedly caused a reaction from Bolger and maybe melee. Stones in glasshouses and all that!

I should add that there is an additional burden on a manager, and to a lesser extent on a club captain to show discipline and set an example but I dont think in the heat of the moment that anyone is above erring in judgement.

I didnt note before but Hery did slap the ball out of a Cork players hands and then dribble it away before Caulfield went after the ball which slighly changes the context of Caulfields reaction.

[WoodquayBoy]

I’m going against the grain here - for me, Hery was the cause of the whole thing spilling over. Waterford bench hold on to the ball, it doesn’t flare up; Hery grabbing the ball and throwing it away, it doesn’t flare up; Caulfield running on to grab the ball, it doesn’t flare up; Hery pushing Caulfield - it flares up.
Caulfield completely in the wrong to encroach. But while you can maybe excuse that as just trying to get the ball, there is no excuse for Hery’s actions. None. And that’s when the whole thing kicks off.

[Olander]

If you want to go down that road take a look at all the people on the pitch after Waterfords winner. Should all of those have been sent off? Every single sub?
Seriously? You're drawing comparisons between Waterford substitutes celebrating a goal with their teammates to your MANAGER running onto the field of play in the middle of a game to dispossess an opposition player? Really? Give your head a wobble.

It's not the first and it won't be the last incident that Caulfield gets involved in needlessly.

On the sideline, he acts like a moron in general. He's constantly parading up and down the sideline like a child that's had too much sugar, he's outside of his technical area regularly. Badgering refs, getting needlessly involved in spats. I've seen him run on the field of play on several occasions just when Galway United played Cork alone. He get into confrontations with opposition benches and in general, just makes an embarrassment of himself on the line. "JC kicks every ball biy."

[Nesta99]

I wont disagree with your last paragraph but the first you make it sound like he got involved in the game during play.

[micls]

Having seen the incidents on Soccer Republic it occured to me that the reaction of Héry towards Caulfield was one that would normally indicate some very vile words were directed Hėry's direction by the Cork manager. Hence Héry reacted in a manner not too disimiliar to a person being abused in a race hate manner. This is a conjecture on my part and my reading of the matter. It is not a good image for the game. I think there actually is a good possibility of a single point deduction for both sides.

What a bizarre and completely unsupported comment.

[micls]

Not that it really matters, and you won't change your mind, but just to say that pretty much everyone outside of CCFC who has commented on this episode - not just WFC supporters - has reasonably pointed out that nothing out of the ordinary happens until Caulfield enters the pitch, and that's the key to it all. I genuinely find it astonishing that even as a fan of the club that this is so hard to admit to. It's possible to love your club and still be able point out when it or one of it's people are responsible for something.

I have never disagreed with that point. If Caulfields not in the pitch it doesn't happen.

What I've argued with is he is solely responsible. If Hery doesn't push him, equally nothing comes of it.

I don't 'admit' it's all Caulfields fault because I genuinely don't think it's all Caulfields fault.

Obviously, I'm inherently biased, but theres not many here that aren't. Caulfield isn't exactly a well liked manager and plenty of people are loving the chance to stick the boot in, including the dundalk fan above who literally said Hery did nothing wrong and couldn't control himself....

JC has responsibility for what happened. As does Hery.

[Ezeikial]

Caulfield isn't exactly a well liked manager and plenty of people are loving the chance to stick the boot in, including the dundalk fan above who literally said Hery did nothing wrong and couldn't control himself....
.

Most are debating the issues, some are sticking the boot in, but the majority are sitting back and getting a great laugh out of how many Cork fans are begrudgingly admitting and then downplaying Caulfield's role, while simultaneously escalating Hery's culpability.

[Pablo Escobar]

Having seen the incidents on Soccer Republic it occured to me that the reaction of Héry towards Caulfield was one that would normally indicate some very vile words were directed Hėry's direction by the Cork manager. Hence Héry reacted in a manner not too disimiliar to a person being abused in a race hate manner. This is a conjecture on my part and my reading of the matter. It is not a good image for the game. I think there actually is a good possibility of a single point deduction for both sides.

I get the feeling that that comment is more a reflection on you than Caulfield. As above, that's a completely bizarre comment to make.