Scotland V Republic of Ireland - Friday, 14th November 2014 - Euro 2016 Qualifier

[ArdeeBhoy]

Alliteration beats rhyming in this case.... Gastric Guts it is!!

Dunno, there should be a Gastric band in force...
;)

[DannyInvincible]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/11/ireland-shane-long-scotland-euro-qualifier

Paul Doyle saying both McGeady and McCarthy represented Scotland at youth level before declaring. Is that true? Schoolboy maybe, but not proper national section to the best of my knowledge.

Some info (all referenced) on McGeady's initial decision to play for Ireland: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aiden_McGeady#International_career


McGeady played for Scotland Schools while at Queen's Park. He played in an under-13 World Cup tournament in Paris. After Queen's Park he joined Celtic, who had a policy of not permitting their youths to play for their school teams due to conflicting kick off times. Scotland had a rule which would not permit a player who did not play for their school team to be considered for a call-up to Scotland Schools selects.

The Republic of Ireland had no such rule preventing a player from being selected and instructed former Celtic player Packie Bonner, who knew of McGeady's Irish heritage, to invite McGeady to play for the Republic of Ireland Under-15 Schoolboys team. McGeady qualifies for Ireland through his paternal grandparents, who hail from the Gaeltacht area of Gweedore, County Donegal. McGeady accepted the offer and joined the Irish youth setup. McGeady was later named in a Scotland under-16 squad, but declined, citing his experience of the Irish set up, despite attempts to persuade him to do so by Scotland head coach Berti Vogts.

[Olé Olé]

I keep coming back the whole McGeady/McCarthy situation on Friday night but I was having a think to myself the other day as to whether there was any Irish parallel that could be drawn.

I distinctly remembered my early days in life watching the old 5 Nations and my father cursing Kyran Bracken. I then remembered some form of documentary I saw when an Irish rugby player referred to the fact that the crowd in Landsdowne Road were so intent on making life difficult for Bracken when he came to Ireland with England.

Kyran Bracken was born in Ireland to Irish parents and moved to England aged 4. He came up through the English rugby system to ultimately represent his new home. And over the 90's here received a touch of flak when he went to play Ireland (his birth country):
http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/the-fall-and-rise-of-the-claw-26238992.html

Like the one about Kyran Bracken, England's Dublin-born scrum half, and the roasting he received in 1994, when he marched out at Twickenham to face the land of his birth. The game was fifteen minutes old when Bracken was caught and turned by Neil Francis (former Ireland rugby player, now an analyst with a few media outlets) and given a céad mile fáilte by a frenzied Irish pack.

Ten minutes later, still reeling from the welcome, Bracken was caught and pummelled again at the bottom of another ruck. You can just imagine his fear, in the darkness of that place, when these two crazed eyes were thrust in his face. You can just imagine his terror when he realised it was the Claw (Peter Clohessy, former Ireland and Munster prop). Thick accent. Bad vibes. "You're never going to get out of here alive."


An interesting, if not slightly skewed, parallel. Shows the reception that Bracken received when he faced an Ireland side for a different country having been born in Ireland.

[Wangball]

The big difference is that a lot of the guff McGeady & McCarthy will have to suffer will be sectarian in nature and wildly vitriolic. I hope there's a UEFA observer there because Scotland could well end up on the wrong end of a ban.

McGeady, a Scottish born Catholic of Irish descent declares for Ireland - gets dogs abuse

Paul Paton, a Scottish born person (religion not known although his father is from Larne so most likely protestant - I'm open to correction on this though!) of Northern Irish descent declares for Norther Ireland - not a single boo

I went to Uni in Glasgow, was there 4 years in total and moved from there to Belfast for work and I can honestly hand on hear say that as well as being the most fun city I've ever lived in Glasgow is by far and away the most sectarian.

[Olé Olé]

The big difference is that a lot of the guff McGeady & McCarthy will have to suffer will be sectarian in nature and wildly vitriolic. I hope there's a UEFA observer there because Scotland could well end up on the wrong end of a ban.

McGeady, a Scottish born Catholic of Irish descent declares for Ireland - gets dogs abuse

Paul Paton, a Scottish born person (religion not known although his father is from Larne so most likely protestant - I'm open to correction on this though!) of Northern Irish descent declares for Norther Ireland - not a single boo

I went to Uni in Glasgow, was there 4 years in total and moved from there to Belfast for work and I can honestly hand on hear say that as well as being the most fun city I've ever lived in Glasgow is by far and away the most sectarian.

Yeah, that's something that I haven't much experience on, tbh. It's interesting because in the Albania national team, there's often a distinction placed upon "ethnic" Kosovans. Had a quick Google on the term "ethnic" which provided this:


An ethnicity, or ethnic group, is a socially-defined category of people who identify with each other based on common ancestral, social, cultural or national experience.

That actually relates very much to the two lads, doesn't it?

I'm probably clumsily dealing with the intricacies of human migration.

[paul_oshea]

It sounds like from O'Neill that if McCarthy is fit he plays, at the expense of Whelan - not in direct place - but because he doesnt want to risk two subsitutions and two players not being fully fit, 1 is ok but not both.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

The big difference is that a lot of the guff McGeady & McCarthy will have to suffer will be sectarian in nature and wildly vitriolic. I hope there's a UEFA observer there because Scotland could well end up on the wrong end of a ban.

McGeady, a Scottish born Catholic of Irish descent declares for Ireland - gets dogs abuse

Paul Paton, a Scottish born person (religion not known although his father is from Larne so most likely protestant - I'm open to correction on this though!) of Northern Irish descent declares for Norther Ireland - not a single boo

I went to Uni in Glasgow, was there 4 years in total and moved from there to Belfast for work and I can honestly hand on hear say that as well as being the most fun city I've ever lived in Glasgow is by far and away the most sectarian.

Paul Paton also retweeted a sectarian comment shortly after he was called up.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

The Grauniad's Paul Doyle reckons the doc's best mate Ciaran Clark is in line to replace Wilson. Makes sense as he's left footed and Delaney isn't in the squad: http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/11/ireland-shane-long-scotland-euro-qualifier?CMP=twt_gu

• O’Neill set to start with Robbie Keane in lone striker role

The definition of insanity... repeatedly doing the same thing and expecting different results every time. Either start him in a 4-4-2 or leave him on the bench FFS.

85% sure Keogh will still start but I was thinking they would be reluctant to start with two right footed centre backs. All the more strange that Delaney is perpetually ignored.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

"If we don’t get beaten there"

Good to see this attitude has been retained. Served us well in the past.

[Stuttgart88]

It's just a soundbite. It doesn't mean the gameplan isn't to go for the win. But, yes, I noticed that too and thought it's the tired old cliche again. Aim higher Shane (with your words, not your shooting).

[Stuttgart88]

I was speaking with my mate in Wexford this morning and he says the only media focus is about the potential booing. As always it's the sideshow rather than the main show. No wonder the FAI doesn't sell tickets or sponsorship.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/sky-sports-come-under-fire-4614797

Irish fans on the defensive after tweet shows 15 of 27 players in Irish squad were born in Ireland.

[Olé Olé]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/sky-sports-come-under-fire-4614797

Irish fans on the defensive after tweet shows 15 of 27 players in Irish squad were born in Ireland.

*17 of 27.

[DeLorean]

"If we don’t get beaten there"

Good to see this attitude has been retained. Served us well in the past.

To be fair, MON said he feels it's a game they can win (unlike the Germany one?). I think he's just being realistic, and realistically a draw wouldn't be a bad result away from home. The problem is, conventional wisdom would have you believe that an away draw should be followed up with a home win, and that's been our Achilles heel. If MON can bring some positive results to Lansdowne then these away draws will be a lot more valuable. For now though, not losing Friday night would be massive but hopefully we'll be trying to win it, not just nick it.

[Stuttgart88]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/sky-sports-come-under-fire-4614797

Irish fans on the defensive after tweet shows 15 of 27 players in Irish squad were born in Ireland.probably at Jim Lets Laugh About The Potato Famine White's behest.

[SwanVsDalton]

Stephen Doyle (aka the scruffy journalist O'Neill ribbed at a previous presser) asked MON directly about Delaney's omission, but no real response (http://www.98fm.com/ONeill-Wont-Explain-Delaney-Mystery) from the manager.

Has to be a simple case or combination of not fancying the player/he's considered too old and they'd rather develop slightly younger options. He should still be in the squad.

[DeLorean]

Well that clears that up.

And great to know Keogh thinks he might be ready, nothing like learning on the job. The guy who asked him if it would be the biggest game he's played for Ireland should have got lynched there and then.

[geysir]

Stephen Doyle (aka the scruffy journalist O'Neill ribbed at a previous presser) asked MON directly about Delaney's omission, but no real response (http://www.98fm.com/ONeill-Wont-Explain-Delaney-Mystery) from the manager.

Has to be a simple case or combination of not fancying the player/he's considered too old and they'd rather develop slightly younger options. He should still be in the squad.
Sounds like there's an issue to me, "we had a conversation" "a private conversation", didn't sound like a happy conversation. But O'Neill is true to the adage, imprinted in his dna, 'whatever you say, say nothing'.

[BonnieShels]

been to the toilet and the guts are in good working order. The guts say ireland to win, long to come off the bench and score, strachan's head to nearly explode and roy to give him ongoing condescending looks. Mccarthy will play as i think his determination to play is evident in that he hasn't returned to england. I feel a lot of you are showing too much respect to these kilt loving, english loving skinflint cowards who are inferior in every way to your independent of spirit, generous and lovable irish person. You can close the thread now tets, the guts have spoken!
monorail!!!

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

*17 of 27.

I agree with your sentiments and I actually had an argument about whether it's okay to call Belfast an Irish city the other day after commenting on an article erroneously referring to "Belfast, Ireland" in the headline.

[BonnieShels]

It is an Irish city. There can't be any doubt about that unless you're the most blinkered knuckle dragging unionist. Jurisdictionly speaking that's anither story.

Why would you engage with such a person TOWK?

[Charlie Darwin]

I'm not mocking Paul, I agree with them - there should definitely be a priority placed on facilitating dedicated travelling fans before the rest of us are accommodated. It's only fair, and the FAI have cocked this up royally. Still, it's hard to deny that he has got on well with travelling fans in the past while his reputation at home is dirt.

And no, I've never made a secret of the fact I rarely attend senior internationals.

[ArdeeBhoy]

The rest of us were busy laughing at Delaney. Far as I can see, real fans who travel to games are the only ones who took him seriously up until now.

Er, no. They despise him as much as anyone in the main, though certain people are obliged to take part in his glad-handing form of 'politics', to get some form of coherent dealings with the FAI, eg. to get access to tickets or to deal with other fans' concerns.
Sadly, this has borne more fruit than his abrasive relationship with the LOI, which is largely understandable tbf.
In the case of the latter I mean!

[Charlie Darwin]

Well I'm not even talking about the LOI, his reputation is dirt in general. The only times I've actually seen Delaney received warmly (to understate it) is at away games. Usually when he's dishing out freebies.

[DannyInvincible]

That actually relates very much to the two lads, doesn't it?

Certainly. They identify culturally (or ethnically) as Irish and that identity is further given formal legal recognition by the Irish state, so all's good. That, along with the fact their grandparents were born in Ireland, ensures they satisfy FIFA's eligibility criteria.


The big difference is that a lot of the guff McGeady & McCarthy will have to suffer will be sectarian in nature and wildly vitriolic. I hope there's a UEFA observer there because Scotland could well end up on the wrong end of a ban.

You don't think the reception Bracken received might have been coloured with a hint of anti-Englishness? Would he have had to put up with the same had he been playing for, say, Wales?


Sounds like there's an issue to me, "we had a conversation" "a private conversation", didn't sound like a happy conversation. But O'Neill is true to the adage, imprinted in his dna, 'whatever you say, say nothing'.

Maybe a personal matter? O'Neill seemed very reluctant to go into detail for whatever reason.


It is an Irish city.

Indeed, I can't believe it was even a "discussion". It would be hard for it not to be given Belfast has always been on the island of Ireland. Were they thinking of moving it elsewhere?...


But ya the same real fans at least put a statement together avout tickets and created a cohesive unit in ensuring delaney didn't have his propaganda train rolling into town.

Delaney exploits their unwavering loyalty, but hopefully they can effect some change for the good of regular travelers without having to vote with their feet. I don't get the impression many would resort to a boycott anyway as it would mean having to give up their support of the team, at least temporarily. That's certainly not a criticism, as it's admittedly a difficult situation; giving that support is obviously very precious to them, and more power to them! I would hope Delaney would do the decent thing off his own bat and get a proper allocation scheme in place without taking advantage of the good will.

[geysir]

Don't know if it is just me, but this website is going so slow for me that I can just about post and it is too frustrating to try and read posts. I like this article in the indo as to why we can beat Scotland. For the first time in along time I am not worried about the opposition, but more interested in our own team. Our defensive structures against Germany were excellent, and while Wilson is a big loss, I am sure we can defend with the same discipline that we showed against Germany. We will also see more of the ball which should give McGeady more opportunity to run at their defence which I am so looking forward to watching. While I am not underestimating Scotland's threat, I feel MONROY are bringing a resolve and self belief to the team that means we can confidently go into this game with an expectation of playing for a win. COYBIG!

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/five-reasons-why-ireland-can-beat-scotland-30739740.html

Great picture with that article as they run to the corner, also it looks like Walters has a bunch of 4 leaf clover, gripped tight in his left hand.

http://www.independent.ie/incoming/article30686206.ece/BINARY/o%27shea.jpg

[paul_oshea]

Well spotted geysir, maybe its his good luck charm and he holds it throughout the game :)

[SwanVsDalton]

McCarthy and Whelan are out. They've been sent back to their clubs.

[Wangball]

McCarthy & Whelan sent back to their clubs.....leaves us very short in the middle of the park.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/european-championship/2014/1113/658965-mccarthy-and-whelan-out-of-scotland-game/

[TrapAPony]

McCarthy and Whelan are out and gone back to their respective clubs. Leaves us with Gibson, Meyler, Quinn & Hendrick.

[Duggie]

McCarthy and Whelan are out and gone back to their respective clubs. Leaves us with Gibson, Meyler, Quinn & Hendrick.

it has to be gibson and hendrick now. both playing regularly(gibson fairly regularly). Hendrick is in fine for so i really hope he plays now. getting slightly worried now. Defo think we should go 2 up top and go for it.

[paul_oshea]

So that guy on the Scottish forum was right ;)

Im begining to become very sceptical of how injury prone and simple knocks players get now. Why wasnt this happening in the past, I dont think i fully believe medical advances.

No doubt McCarthy will turn out for his club next week. How can he play a thursday and a sunday full 90 and then feel something? Its that just from over-doing it?

[Kingdom]

http://balls.ie/football/changing-guard-rte-panel-friday/

Now that is a turn-up for the books......

Will Sadlier herald a new era in Irish away performances? Owlsfan will be delighted!

[KK77]

So that guy on the Scottish forum was right ;)

Im begining to become very sceptical of how injury prone and simple knocks players get now. Why wasnt this happening in the past, I dont think i fully believe medical advances.

No doubt McCarthy will turn out for his club next week. How can he play a thursday and a sunday full 90 and then feel something? Its that just from over-doing it?

Once I heard the McCarthy felt his hamstring I had no doubts he would not be playing. I didn't know he actually played the full match last Sunday at Sunderland. I suppose that's why he had to travel over.

[DeLorean]

Good for you. F**k sake, what a mood killer that is. I'd play all three of Gibson, Quinn and Hendrick now I think but there's no way Walters won't be playing. I'd love to know how much that Martinez is paying the FAI doctors.

[KK77]

it has to be gibson and hendrick now. both playing regularly(gibson fairly regularly). Hendrick is in fine for so i really hope he plays now. getting slightly worried now. Defo think we should go 2 up top and go for it.

Yes I think it will be Gibson and Hendrick now.

[Stuttgart88]

To answer Paul's comment, Martin O'Neill said in the Indo that it's not a bad injury and would be no problem if he had another week. So, no need for a conspiracy theory if he doesn't play.

But, I think any of us who have played have played with severe strains and maybe even minor tears. Personally I have never torn a hamstring (I have matchstick legs so don't really have any!) but I have torn ankle ligaments. I reckon a tear is one thing but in the old days international players would play through a strain. These days with players worth so much and with clubs holding power I think an international player just can't risk upsetting his club by playing through a strain.

I think that's all it is.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Stutts has it spot on I reckon.

[Stuttgart88]

Good for you. F**k sake, what a mood killer that is. I'd play all three of Gibson, Quinn and Hendrick now I think but there's no way Walters won't be playing. I'd love to know how much that Martinez is paying the FAI doctors.

Who'd you pick up front?

[DeLorean]

I'd start with Keane. Long and Walters are great sub options, both if we're chasing the game and go 4-4-2.

[Stuttgart88]

This will be a fascinating team announcement.

[DeLorean]

I think we can dominate with three genuine midfielders feeding McGeady, McClean and, crucially, Keane.

[TrapAPony]

Play a trio of Gibson, Meyler & Hendrick in midfield with McGeady & McClean on the wings and we will be grand.

[Stuttgart88]

Two of those three started against Italy and we were grand. Meyler lacks match fitness but is a fit lad and oneill rates him.

[Duggie]

from what i've seen of him Meyler seem's to be a very average midfielder. if he is to go with a trio i'd rather Quinn. hes busy and is a better passer.

[DannyInvincible]

So that guy on the Scottish forum was right ;)

Im begining to become very sceptical of how injury prone and simple knocks players get now. Why wasnt this happening in the past, I dont think i fully believe medical advances.

No doubt McCarthy will turn out for his club next week. How can he play a thursday and a sunday full 90 and then feel something? Its that just from over-doing it?

Are you casting doubt over the assessment of the FAI's doctor or what?...

It's disappointing he won't play. Had been hoping he'd pull through, but I think Stutts has it spot on in terms of why there's a modern-day reluctance to play players who aren't one hundred per cent fit.

[nigel-harps1954]

People are over-complicating things. There's always a few posts of "I hope we go with this", and "This should be the way", but O'Neill seems set in his ways with formation and style of playing. Most likely looking at Quinn and Gibson in midfield.

[ifk101]

McGeady wasn't great in the 10 role against Germany, that'd be my concern about tomorrow - ie we've no (natural) playmaker.

[Fixer82]

It's very easy to play a full match having picked up a knock or a strain.
It's when the match finishes and the adrenaline wears off that the full extent is felt.
It's a shame. I imagine if he'd had an extra three days he would have made it.
It's a toss up between Meyler, Gibson and Hendrick.
I would suspect Quinn will start.
I'd have no problem with Meyler starting in midfield

[DeLorean]

Yep, I'd agree. And Walters and Keane up front. The team picks itself now in MON's eyes I'd say.