Scotland V Republic of Ireland - Friday, 14th November 2014 - Euro 2016 Qualifier

[geysir]

He'll get criticised regardless of how he plays. He's an easy target.

Great analysis of the game by Steven Reid here: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/european-championships/dropping-robbie-a-huge-call-oneill-should-have-started-him-no-matter-what-30746551.html

I don't necessarily agree that dropping Robbie was a mistake but certainly the way the team was set up was a major factor in the way the game unfolded. It's a curious deceptive analysis and a good read.
He doesn't really take issue with the way we were set up, except for that corner and he doesn't really take issue with dropping Robbie, but in the end he says we lost the game in midfield.
Which i'd also agree with, that regardless of shortcomings elsewhere, midfield was the crucial area.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Two very mediocre teams...
End of.

We now epitomise the word?

[elroy]

On way home from Glasgow, deflated. Great atmosphere, deflating night. There isn't much between the two sides but Scotland used what they have a lot better. That for me is the most disappointing thing, this wasn't Germany. We should have been able to match the scots in the possession stakes. Too much and too often we hoofed the ball long to the front two. How frustrating it must be for Walters and long to rely on hopeful long balls. So much for a change in approach!

Defensively, with the exception if the inexcusable lapse for the goal, thought we played well. Keogh impressed and looked assured with ball at his feet. Ward was ok, exposed once in second half because he was too deep. Don't feel we do enough to maximise colemans strengths.

Mcgeadys head didn't look in a good place right from the off. Disappointed that Hendrick was so ineffective but still one for the future.

Finally don't think we coped with Naismith role all night. We didn't seem to have allocated responsibility to who was to mark him, whether it was a CB or CM. Surely we need to look at more creative formations than 442 particularly given the personnel we have. We are not maximising this teams potential.

[TrapAPony]

Wilson instead of Ward, Brady instead of McClean, McCarthy in the middle & Hoolahan off Keane or Long or Walters up front is what I would like to see from now on. Disgusted by last nights performance.

[Stuttgart88]

The better team won and the better coached team won.

Although I think we're a better team without the ball now than we were in recent years I think we failed to adapt to the space that Naismith found between midfield and attack. This is the space that Glenn Whelan occupies and a few people I met last night said that although he's a popular target for criticism, we did miss him.

We asked a lot of our midfield two and in hindsight Quinn should have been there too. Walters worked his nads off but ultimately our offensive play was all huff and puff and little else. Work the ball wide or chip it up the touchline, that's all we had. The first 15 mins of the second half was when we got most traction but Scotland's response to this passage of play was impressive. For almost all of the game (last decade) midfield contributed nothing in the way of creativity. That's why a Hoolahan player is needed. Without the ability to use the ball centrally in an opponent's half and to get into that space that Naismith was finding last night, we are one dimensional and easy to play against.

As for individual performances, only McGeady was below usual standard I think. We know sometimes McClean doesnt make inroads in some games. Coleman might have offered more going forward but I thought as individuals everyone was alright, it was the CM unit and everything that stems from that that misfired.

O'Neill was right though. Our home form in 2015 is what'll shape the outcome, not last night. We need to step up a few gears big time but I fear our coaching team are most familiar with a version of the game played in the 2000s, not the 2010s.

Nice to meet AB last night, I looked for you after my "pit stop" but lost you!

[Fixer82]

I'm pretty sure everyone was happy with the team before the game.
We didn't play as well as we could have and we lost.
Move on.
It wasn't a terrible performance, it just wasn't as good as Scotland.
They had more experience in the centre of the park and were more composed on the ball in what was a scrappy game on a slightly greasy pitch.
People talking about dropping McClean for this but McClean was our man of the match in Germany.

We've a bit to go in this group so let's not let our emotions get the better of us here lads

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Keogh criticism may be over the top but so is the praise.

He let someone get a free cross into the box on 5 minutes, he let someone have a free header which is forgotten about because it went unpunished, he switched off for the goal (in fairness everyone did) and started completely losing his composure after the goal. I also read something a few pages back about him having a pop at Coleman too. He did the same thing after the one goal he wasn't at fault for against Portugal. He is decent with the ball at his feet but it makes no difference to the way we play. I'm much more concerned about him facing players direct and basics like staying tight to players in the box. Poland will have better attackers than Steven Fletcher but then hopefully Wilson will be back for that game.

Long & Walters linked up well at times and looked a hell of a lot sharper than Keane did in his last 20 odd games against teams of this stature. But we would have been stronger with Long on his own up front, granted Reid & Hoolahan were absent, granted they wouldn't have started to begin with.

Gibson was shocking. Hendrick would have been better served in a proper midfield 3 with Meyler.

It's not an unmitigated disaster as we have played Germany & Scotland (a) now and still welcome them to Dublin but I just cannot see us getting a solitary win against any of these teams in this campaign. It's just a mental block we have as a team.

O'Neill is as negative & bad as Trapattoni. A few lucky late goals doesn't change that. I said our luck would run out tonight & it did.

Keane's shots at Walters & Long & the management team, and his overall belligerence in that interview sum him up. He'll be back in the first 11 for the Poland game and if he isn't, there is going to be problems. He's not happy.

"If we play two up front & want to score goals."

That's the f***ing problem. We were playing Scotland not The Falkland Islands. You don't score f***ing goals against these teams.

Look at NI and Kyle Lafferty. Get Hoolahan & Reid back, get McCarthy back, persevere with Long.... we'll make headway.

[tetsujin1979]

Keogh criticism may be over the top but so is the praise.
Really? The closest remark on Keogh's performance that you could classify as "over the top" that I can find is this (no offence Fixer82, this is just the most complimentary post I can find about Keogh's performance)

Keogh for me had an outstanding game and barely put a foot wrong. Every other comment was reasonable, or critical, of his performance.


O'Neill is as negative & bad as Trapattoni. A few lucky late goals doesn't change that. I said our luck would run out tonight & it did.Did you? I used the search function to search your posts for "luck" and none of them mentioned our luck running out against Scotland.


Look at NI and Kyle Lafferty.I didn't notice him in the highlights against Romania last night, score a good goal against Greece alright.

[legendz]

One of the worst performances I've seen from Ireland. Deserved nothing from the game. I've yet to see anything to suggest that MON was a better appointment that Mick McCarthy. McCarthy himself, if he is to ever return, is better coming in after the MON fascination has blown over. Last night is the the future. At 3 years of hoofball lie in store!

[Crosby87]

Bruce Arena thinks Robbie should have started. Bruce should manage Ireland.
I cant believe we lost to Alba. You people are the second biggest disgrace in Europe after Rod Stewarts hair. Im ashamed of my ancestry. Im not eating soda bread until at least 2019.

[tetsujin1979]

From the FAI's Twitter: https://twitter.com/FAIreland/status/533652598197583872

Players trained today @ Gannon Park. Robbie Keane has been released to @LAGalaxy. Darron Gibson also released (minor knock to knee) #COYBIG

[Crosby87]

They should release half the team permanently.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Totally forgot about this game.

[mark12345]

From the FAI's Twitter: https://twitter.com/FAIreland/status/533652598197583872

Robbie being released after he travelled all the way over. Would have thought he would want to play against USA?
Seems everything is not rosy in garden with Robbie / management? Maybe I am reading too much into it.
Bottom line is systemic problems led to the performance last night.
We need to go back to grass roots coaching

[The Fly]

Some people on here really need to manage their expectations better.

[Fixer82]

It's still wide open lads. It's not all doom and gloom.
The occasion got to some of our lads but hopefully it will have added to their experience and we've three midfielders to come back into the team.
It's all to play for

[boysingreen]

We completed more passes v Germany than we did against Scotland. Put a positive spin on that one.

Not saying the campaign is over, just that that performance was utter drivel. Martin O'Neill reacted derisively to the post-match suggestion that we let the occasion get to us. Come on. We certainly did.

[Fixer82]

We completed more passes v Germany than we did against Scotland. Put a positive spin on that one.

Not saying the campaign is over, just that that performance was utter drivel. Martin O'Neill reacted derisively to the post-match suggestion that we let the occasion get to us. Come on. We certainly did.

I think some players certainly did but he's probably just backing his players on public

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Nobody, me included, is expecting Ireland to get anything from the game in March.

Even though Poland had players from the Polish, Romanian, Chinese & Russian leagues padding out their team last night.

We have players like Coleman (who wasn't allowed go past the halfway line where he is so effective for Everton) & McCarthy who don't resemble the same people that get rave reviews for their clubs week in, week out. Even Whelan's performances at domestic level go more appreciated, and with good reason.

There is enough evidence (Italy) that we can play better than this. Enough of the negativity. It has cost us so much since we were found out at Euro 2012.

[tetsujin1979]

Nobody, me included, is expecting Ireland to get anything from the game in March.

Even though Poland had players from the Polish, Romanian, Chinese & Russian leagues padding out their team last night.

We have players like Coleman (who wasn't allowed go past the halfway line where he is so effective for Everton) & McCarthy who don't resemble the same people that get rave reviews for their clubs week in, week out. Even Whelan's performances at domestic level go more appreciated, and with good reason.

There is enough evidence (Italy) that we can play better than this. Enough of the negativity. It has cost us so much since we were found out at Euro 2012.
Just a thought, but maybe Coleman wasn't allowed past the half way line because the Scotland left winger is a speed merchant who is known for exploiting space behind the opposing full back - case in point, his goal against Germany.

[Crosby87]

We can maybe trick the Poles. They are, after all, Polish. To wit from todays paper:

Warsaw-A Polish doctor says she is in deep shock since learning that a 91 year old woman she pronounced dead woke up in the morgue.
The doctor said Friday that she was sure the patient was dead after finding no basic life functions during a house call on Nov 6.
Prosecutors are investigating whether the patients life was endangered by the inaccurate diagnosis.
The woman laid in the mortuary for a few hours before a stunned undertaker noticed she was moving inside the body bag.
"The undertaker thought it was a prank or the rapture and then when he went to check it out, the woman poped right up and asked what happened to her bed she was napping in." Police said.
The undertaker was later seen drinking in a local pub.
Polish authorities said doctors should be trained to tell the difference between the living and the dead.
"Its probably important to be able to tell." Admitted a health official.

[Stuttgart88]

Some people on here really need to manage their expectations better.
Exactly. Crosby thought we'd lose 3-0.


Expecting us to be able to do more than huff and puff and play head tennis all game is reasonable though. O'Neill has one game left to keep me thinking he's the man for the job. He has been publicly dismissive of the quality of our players and those he picks he doesn't trust to play without fear. It's a hybrid of Trap and Charlton. We need a more contemporary approach to a game that has moved on a lot in the last 5 years, let alone the last 25.

All of Irish football needs a reboot, but we all knew that anyway.

Separately, much is being made of Robbie Keane's comments. I have only read them rather than hearing them, so the tonal context is missing for me. He is clearly disagreeing with the hoofball tactics but I didn't think he is having a dig at the two who started. He says long balls don't suit him and he's more comfortable in a 442, that's where he scores goals. I did pick up on disquiet with the tactics but I didn't pick up on any disrespect to the others.

Fixer, yes it is all to play for but this is shaping up very similar to the last campaign. 3 evenly matched teams in contention for a playoff spot we came a distant third among those three. Experience tells me that once we start to slip behind we stay behind. With 5 home games left I'd almost be more comfortable with Stan in charge.

[shakermaker1982]

The only real difference between last night & a Trap Irish side was that we'd be lumping it long to Robbie Keane under the Trap. At least MO'N was smart enough to realise he isn't a target man.

Still dog **** football and something you can't rely on every time your team has the ball. That's why it was so disappointing to see. In previous matches we have at least try to play a little bit. Did we get sucked into the whole 'it's a like a derby game'?

The more you see the goal it makes me sick with envy!

The nutmeg on Hendricks, the flick by Brown and the finish. Who was slow coming out? Was it Brady? You see Brown is free & you've got to get out to him quicker. If he had then he may have been able to block the shot after the flick.

[geysir]

The only real difference between last night & a Trap Irish side was that we'd be lumping it long to Robbie Keane under the Trap. At least MO'N was smart enough to realise he isn't a target man.

Still dog **** football and something you can't rely on every time your team has the ball. That's why it was so disappointing to see. In previous matches we have at least try to play a little bit. Did we get sucked into the whole 'it's a like a derby game'?

The more you see the goal it makes me sick with envy!

The nutmeg on Hendricks, the flick by Brown and the finish. Who was slow coming out? Was it Brady? You see Brown is free & you've got to get out to him quicker. If he had then he may have been able to block the shot after the flick.
Trap had more plusses than minuses with the away team, only in Russia could you claim we managed nothing but defend. Claims of our use of the hoofball last night are exaggerated. We didn't play well, we didn't use (or get enough use from) Gibson, we didn't have an industrious skilled player like Hoolahan to manage affairs around the middle, but we tried to play it out, on the ground, time and time again.
Both goalies hoofed the ball from their kick outs, just as much as each other. Apart from that we mostly played the ball on the ground.
My definition of a hoof, is a ball hoofed from the kick out, or when the back 4 (under no pressure) hoof it rather than use midfield, or we end up hoofing it out after a bit of pressure. I only remember one hoof in the first half from the back 4.

[Charlie Darwin]

I wouldn't say we hoofed particularly - if we had hoofed more we'd probably have had a bit more success. Our problem was that when we did try to play it through midfield or down the lines, our players were swarmed by Scotland who had more men in the right places to regain the ball. McGeady never got the ball without two men on him, Naismith, Fletcher and Maloney were constantly hassling Hendrick and Gibson, etc.

[Stuttgart88]

There were plenty of safety first type hoofs, but this isn't what I'm concerned about. Hoof may not be the correct word, but there were lots of speculative chips up the touch line or into the middle. The ball was in the air a lot and mostly because we put it there.

[geysir]

I only rememberer one safety first hoof clearance, from Keogh late in the first half I think, at least he got plenty of welly into it.
20m chips are not hoofs, not real hoofs. The midfield head the ball competitions came from both sides.

[Stuttgart88]

I thought we were beyond primitive. Yes we tried to get it down at times but when we did we could never get between their lines, only sideways. There were lots of high balls, chips and other non-measured, purely speculative passes that put the receiver under pressure and gave the defender every chance.

Anyway, despite that I thought it was a gripping physical context.

I liked this BBC description.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30067753

Interesting how he thinks that at key times in this campaign Scotland got lucky.

[Stuttgart88]

RTE's stattos saying it wasn't full on long ball game but it was not exactly tika taka either.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/

They say the 28 fouls showed how tough the game was. Is 28 not a low foul count?

I can only remember one offside all match. Were there many more?

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Just a thought, but maybe Coleman wasn't allowed past the half way line because the Scotland left winger is a speed merchant who is known for exploiting space behind the opposing full back - case in point, his goal against Germany.

Fair enough but I think it's been similar all through his Ireland career. He barely ever registers any shots on goal or crosses and his uncanny knack of ghosting into the box, like for Everton, is never seen.

I think we are missing a beat with him. I think he has been completely wasted at Intl. level. It would probably be better for all concerned if he was moved into midfield. I think he could be the source of goals that McGeady & McClean have never provided.

Just a pity that O'Brien isn't available as a feasible RB option.

And I don't want to rag on Walters all the time but his constant presence - be it in midfield or up front - just sums up Ireland's negativity and limitations IMO.

Edit: OK completely wasted is putting it a bit too strongly LOL.

[ArdeeBhoy]

We just aren't very good...

[Bungle]

I'd rather a few new players be blooded for the rest of the campaign and even players with great potential such as Hendrick get a tough lesson such as last night and come 4th in the group rather than coming 3rd in the group or qualifying if it means that we are going into wc2018 or 2020 a stronger team.

Scotland and Poland are average sides that are playing well. Unfortunately, the draw for wc2018 is probably going to be pretty gruesome, as we are almost certain to be 4th seeds and this group might seem pretty tame in comparison.

We can do little about the current footballing culture in this country and the lack of proper coaching of most of our young footballers that will make a big difference for the next 10-15 years, but now might be the time to start from scratch and hope that in the coming 18 months-24 months, fellas like Ian lawlor, Shane Duffy, Hendrick, Brady and Sheridan can mould themselves into a decent unit. Even bringing in fellas like alex o'hanlon or jack Byrne might give their careers a big lift. Mick did it in 96 and it made us a competitive unit after a tough 2 years or so. Ideally, Crowley and grealish too if they decide to switch from supporting us on twitter to officially declaring us.

[Charlie Darwin]

Bringing in three players who've never played a senior game of football, and are at clubs where the opportunities for advancing to the first team are probably smallest, would be madness. Especially O'Hanlon who can't even hack it at U19 level right now. Pie in the sky stuff.

[Crosby87]

Bungle in the jungle.

[bishbash]

It seems if you believe Ireland could play a slightly better & also more effective brand of football you are deemed to have an inflated expectation, I mean after all our players are completely average. Well so are Scotland's. The difference between Scotland & us Fri night was the Scots tried to construct their own chances through football. Let's be honest it wasn't Tika Taka just clever in possession at times with cool heads & a hell of a lot more confident than us. We have one game plan, lump it & get lucky.

England struggled with 442 with a far better collection of players than we have yet we persist with after being over run Tim & time again. Ireland do have some decent players, every bit as decent as the Scots. We are more than capable of stringing 4 or 5 passes together in the right system. Not Tika taka football just 4 or 5 measured passes from time to time, that is what people who criticise the team are looking for. More or less what Scotland did, work hard be competitive & hard to beat and every now & again keep a cool head & pass it.

Play 451 give us the chance to keep the ball, get the most out of our wingers & still be compact & difficult to beat. Turn the long hoofs into more than just a 50/50 chance. And dare I say it again just be more luke Scotland were, not world beaters, just much better in possession than us.

If it's about managing expectations, I expect us to be more like Scotland the football team than Scotland the rugby team.

[Charlie Darwin]

It seems if you believe Ireland could play a slightly better & also more effective brand of football you are deemed to have an inflated expectation, I mean after all our players are completely average. Well so are Scotland's. The difference between Scotland & us Fri night was the Scots tried to construct their own chances through football. Let's be honest it wasn't Tika Taka just clever in possession at times with cool heads & a hell of a lot more confident than us. We have one game plan, lump it & get lucky.

England struggled with 442 with a far better collection of players than we have yet we persist with after being over run Tim & time again. Ireland do have some decent players, every bit as decent as the Scots. We are more than capable of stringing 4 or 5 passes together in the right system. Not Tika taka football just 4 or 5 measured passes from time to time, that is what people who criticise the team are looking for. More or less what Scotland did, work hard be competitive & hard to beat and every now & again keep a cool head & pass it.

Play 451 give us the chance to keep the ball, get the most out of our wingers & still be compact & difficult to beat. Turn the long hoofs into more than just a 50/50 chance. And dare I say it again just be more luke Scotland were, not world beaters, just much better in possession than us.

If it's about managing expectations, I expect us to be more like Scotland the football team than Scotland the rugby team.
It's taken the Scots two years to get to this point. Strachan didn't just come in and have them playing like this overnight. We've had four competitive matches and there has been an improvement in the style of football, regardless of what people, but it was clear that Scotland were a much better-drilled side than us and that's something that doesn't happen over the odd five-day training camp.

[bishbash]

It's taken the Scots two years to get to this point. Strachan didn't just come in and have them playing like this overnight. We've had four competitive matches and there has been an improvement in the style of football, regardless of what people, but it was clear that Scotland were a much better-drilled side than us and that's something that doesn't happen over the odd five-day training camp.

it was difficult to see any evidence of improvement Fri night, it was as bad as any time under Trap. I'm a massive O'Neill fan but judging on that game alone it's hard to see any difference, when push came to shove we went 442 & hoofed it and that's the reality. I really hope it changes to some degree by March & to be fair to MON that he gets his most important players fit & ready.

[Charlie Darwin]

it was difficult to see any evidence of improvement Fri night, it was as bad as any time under Trap. I'm a massive O'Neill fan but judging on that game alone it's hard to see any difference, when push came to shove we went 442 & hoofed it and that's the reality. I really hope it changes to some degree by March & to be fair to MON that he gets his most important players fit & ready.
I doubt I can change your mind through arguing, but if you get the time I think you should think about watching a match from Trap (say Sweden at home) and then last night. The pace of yesterday's game was much higher, which will always lead to more mistakes, but the intent is clearly different from Ireland and I think when we managed to get fluid passages going it was a lot better than anything Trap came up with. It was 4-4-2 and it was more direct than the last three matches, but it was not just hoofing.

[bishbash]

I doubt I can change your mind through arguing, but if you get the time I think you should think about watching a match from Trap (say Sweden at home) and then last night. The pace of yesterday's game was much higher, which will always lead to more mistakes, but the intent is clearly different from Ireland and I think when we managed to get fluid passages going it was a lot better than anything Trap came up with. It was 4-4-2 and it was more direct than the last three matches, but it was not just hoofing.


Ive watched the game 3 times, unfortunately, you might say! Yeah it was a fully competitive match I've no arguments about that, also I've no arguments that some of our more comfortable players on the ball wee missing in McCarthy, Wilson & Hoolahan. But I can recall only 2 passages where we passed with control & intent. I can't recall Ward making one positive completed pass. My main point is we went back to 442 when we are clearly not good enough to play that way in a positive offensive sense. In that way it feels very mush like something Trap would do.

[Charlie Darwin]

Ive watched the game 3 times, unfortunately, you might say! Yeah it was a fully competitive match I've no arguments about that, also I've no arguments that some of our more comfortable players on the ball wee missing in McCarthy, Wilson & Hoolahan. But I can recall only 2 passages where we passed with control & intent. I can't recall Ward making one positive completed pass. My main point is we went back to 442 when we are clearly not good enough to play that way in a positive offensive sense. In that way it feels very mush like something Trap would do.
I counted more than that, to be fair. In the third quarter we managed to slow the pace down (or Scotland got tired) and I thought we passed it quite well and Walters dropped back a bit more to help the midfield, but overall our passing accuracy was abysmal and I think much of it was down to the fact we had two lads standing up front when it clearly wasn't where the game was being played. I have to admit I was surprised we didn't set up with McGeady in the middle like in Germany. With Keane out, we were crying out for somebody with a bit more of a touch and creativity in the middle, and the direct tactics stopped working pretty early in the game. I wonder if the plan was actually to keep two strikers up or if Walters just wasn't doing his job properly, although judging by the fact he played the whole game I'm guessing it was the plan. Either way, I think the differences from the Trap style were more than the similarities, but I think O'Neill will have to look at changing things.

[bishbash]

I genuinely believe that it has to be a move away from 442. I'm a realist I don't believe for one min that we will dominate teams possession wise but I really do think we have some decent players playing in the right system can allow us more constructive possession & I actually believe that will make us defensively more solid as we won't be giving it away so often allowing us to be more organised. As I said I'm a big O'Neill fan & I'd love him to get us playing with some confidence cause if he does he has the motivational skills to bring this team on

[Charlie Darwin]

I wouldn't play the 442 either, or if we do I'd have a second forward who can bridge the gap between midfield and attack like Naismith does and has the energy to do all the running required. I do think O'Neill called the selection wrong and it was probably riskier to leave ourselves short in midfield than it would have been to play one up top.

[gastric]

Shocked by the result and by much of the outright negative reaction on here. No doubt we got our tactics wrong particularly up front, but I still think we are a better team than we showed. I predicted a win, yes I got it wrong, but don't ram it down my neck as many on here seem to feel it necessary to do to me and others. At least we didn't lose to the Faroes and I am already looking forward to the Scots coming to Dublin. Nothing like a win to shut up whingers. COYBIG!

[Charlie Darwin]

I predicted a win, yes I got it wrong, but don't ram it down my neck as many on here seem to feel it necessary to do to me and others.
You heard him. The last thing we need right now is gastric problems.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Bish wins.

Talking the most sense here.

[Bungle]

Bungle in the jungle.

Cheeky pup :)

[liamoo11]

Bringing in three players who've never played a senior game of football, and are at clubs where the opportunities for advancing to the first team are probably smallest, would be madness. Especially O'Hanlon who can't even hack it at U19 level right now. Pie in the sky stuff.

no o hanlon bashing please. he was excellent against real in the 19s champ league 2 weeks ago and against the bulgarians . great coverage on eurosport

[Bungle]

Bringing in three players who've never played a senior game of football, and are at clubs where the opportunities for advancing to the first team are probably smallest, would be madness. Especially O'Hanlon who can't even hack it at U19 level right now. Pie in the sky stuff.

It is baffling how doolin doesn't have o'hanlon in the u19s, especially given that he is a regular starter in the uefa youth league, as is Dan cleary. Byrne and lawlor I would wager will become Irish internationals very soon. Both terrific talents. O'hanlon and cleary maybe less so, but still very good.

Anyhow, I believe that unless we beat the USA and Poland, we have feck all chance of being 3rs seeds for the next campaign. In that case, I'd far rather a lot of new talent introduced supplemented by the core of decent players already in the set up. We would stand more from seeing derrick Williams and Shane Duffy in a game than we would John O'Shea. Lawlor would gain more from being around the set up than Shay given. Jack Byrne might be able to impress pellegrini or a good championship club and progress his career on loan. At the very least, it will give these lads a boost.

Mick did it years ago and after some very painful performances such as Iceland and Lithuania at home, we became a very decent side. I'd love something similar now, because the current bunch (good lads the lot of them) will never amount to much. When we're getting outclassed by a Scottish team where Naismith is the star, then I think it's time to rip it up.

[Stuttgart88]

Fair enough but I think it's been similar all through his Ireland career. He barely ever registers any shots on goal or crosses and his uncanny knack of ghosting into the box, like for Everton, is never seen.

I think we are missing a beat with him. I think he has been completely wasted at Intl. level. It would probably be better for all concerned if he was moved into midfield. I think he could be the source of goals that McGeady & McClean have never provided.

Just a pity that O'Brien isn't available as a feasible RB option.

And I don't want to rag on Walters all the time but his constant presence - be it in midfield or up front - just sums up Ireland's negativity and limitations IMO.

Edit: OK completely wasted is putting it a bit too strongly LOL.
Isn't the real issue that Coleman can be afforded the opportunity to get forward at Everton because his midfield is competitive? One could maybe argue that Coleman getting forward more for Ireland would help his midfield but I don't think it works this way. Our midfield just didn't get a foothold in the game and everyone else's impact suffered as a result.

I'm with you on Walters although I think his selection in Germany was justified due to Meyler being at RB. He is clearly an O'Neill favourite and it's straight out of the Hartson / Sutton /Heskey preference he used to have. O'Neill very much likes to be able to bash the door down as well as to pick the lock. In Scotland there was no chance of picking the lock, only bashing at the door.

[OwlsFan]

We are better than this and I have full faith in Martin and Roy improving us mentally and giving us the belief and confidence that Trapattoni gradually eroded by constantly telling the players that they are crap and acting like we are Luxembourg whenever anyone deviated from bowing at his feet.


Same old negative football

:)

Two and a bit campaigns before we lost under Trap away from home. Three games in to this first campaign.

As I have sad before, I am relying on O'Neill to sort out the huge issues we had at home under the Trap. If not, we're screwed. We MUST beat Poland and Scotland and I believe we can do this.

Not sure what all the negatively is about. Scotland are obviously a team on the up and we were missing our best midfielder and playing an untried combination in the middle. I have never rated Gibson any higher than Whelan. He was of course God's gift when he wasn't been selected by Trap and Whelan was a donkey but frankly I don't see much of a difference between the two except Whelan works harder and puts the foot in more while Gibson is slightly better on the ball. I don't believe it was right to drop Robbie for the game. It was the sort of game he could have excelled in. Interesting he was warming up down by us when Scotland scored and he immediately sprinted up to the bench when it happened - HE at least (and the fans chanting his name at the time) knew he should be on the pitch.

It was always going to be a tight game and Scotland got the goal with a nicely worked move. Our two forwards never looked like scoring. At the game Keogh appeared to do everything asked on his but I see fault was still found with his display. Scratches his head....

We're second in the group. To hell with Bungle's planning for future campaigns. We have to learn to beat our competitors at home and if we do, France beckons.

Any Scots we met were friendly but I understand from YBIG (hearsay from a friend - don't go there myself), many Irish fans in the Scots section were abused and worse. If there's one thing I have learned when supporting a team away from home, you sit on your hands when among away supporters. I believe that anyone who thought it might be otherwise was very naive. Great stadium. Very hard to get taxis though.