Scotland V Republic of Ireland - Friday, 14th November 2014 - Euro 2016 Qualifier

[paul_oshea]

Didn't Gibson came on for Keane?

Gibraltar.he hit a good few balls over the top for Keane.

[paul_oshea]

That's what I thought too. Although, to be fair, what would I know? I was only watching on television. Paul was there.

that's true at least you are waking up to the fact.

[Crosby87]

Tarties memories of Ireland matches past:
http://tartanarmyboard.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=1822

[ArdeeBhoy]

And fill your boots, generally...
http://tartanarmyboard.co.uk/forum/index.php?showforum=3

[Stuttgart88]

Gordon, Naismith and Brown are nailed on starters
Hadn't Marshall started every game so far?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Yeah, they do for once have 2-3 decent keepers.

[tetsujin1979]

Hadn't Marshall started every game so far?He has, sorry, I thought Gordon was in goals against Poland

[Junior]

Is that the best they can do? Junior has already written off Brown.

Entrapment!! Haha

[Deckydee]

http://tartanarmyboard.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=1771

Hmmmmmmm...

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Said it before and i'll say it again, wouldn't be surprised if Martinez convinces James to pull out of this game.

Some Scottish fans seem to echo that sentiment.

[Deckydee]

Since McCarthy declared for Eire, surely he knew this day would come.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Agreed. And Coleman...

[Stuttgart88]

I hear what TOWK is saying - there's a paranoid and negative part of my brain too on occasion - but really it's got nothing to do with Martinez. The FAI can insist they get checked by their own doctors. I'd say if both players think they can play they will. If they were fringe players you could maybe see them trying to appease the manager but both are automatic picks when fit, crucial players for Martinez, and Martinez would be picking the wrong battle I reckon.

If the Scots think they can give a Roy Keane welcome to McCarthy or McGeady because "he deserves it", as suggested on the Tratan Army board, they'll run the risk of a red card so more fool them if they try to rough them up.

[DannyInvincible]

Said it before and i'll say it again, wouldn't be surprised if Martinez convinces James to pull out of this game.

Some Scottish fans seem to echo that sentiment.

I'm sure they would echo such an unreasonably suspicious sentiment. They'd love it to be true. But what would they know?

James is relishing the prospect of lining out against Scotland. It's strange; you'll read negatively into certain ambiguous or poorly-phrased statements by some players, such as Jack Grealish or Robbie Keane, and even attach loaded connotations to their words to suit your own agenda, but then you'll just completely ignore the words of others whenever acknowledging their obviously-positive intent or message doesn't suit your spiel. In this case, you're ignoring the fact that James has explicitly embraced the "bringing on of the Scots" so that you can peddle anti-Martinez conspiracy theory and have a go at that "strange little man". James played week in and week out around Scotland for Hamilton Academical whilst also playing for Ireland at youth level; taking abuse from bitter Scots will be nothing new for him.

[DannyInvincible]

The FAI can insist they get checked by their own doctors. I'd say if both players think they can play they will.

Exactly; the FAI are entitled to insist that players are released for medical assessment, so it would be counter-productive for Martinez to start fabricating injuries, especially as he has so many Irish squad regulars in his team. It would only stir bad blood and he has a good relationship with the FAI as it stands.

[the doc]

Exactly; the FAI are entitled to insist that players are released for medical assessment, so it would be counter-productive for Martinez to start fabricating injuries, especially as he has so many Irish squad regulars in his team. It would only stir bad blood and he has a good relationship with the FAI as it stands.

Clubs don't want players carrying even the slightest knocks playing international football.

Mr Trapattoni used to insist players carrying injuries turn up and be examined by the Irish medical staff, that still didn't stop clubs trying to prevent and put pressure on players not to turn up.

The Scotland game is a must win, lose and I can see us finishing 3rd or 4th.

[DannyInvincible]

Clubs don't want players carrying even the slightest knocks playing international football.

Mr Trapattoni used to insist players carrying injuries turn up and be examined by the Irish medical staff, that still didn't stop clubs trying to prevent and put pressure on players not to turn up.

The Scotland game is a must win, lose and I can see us finishing 3rd or 4th.

I'm aware of that. Of course clubs would want to protect their players - that's only natural seeing as they're their paid employees - and it is often the case that a player might be just about fit enough to make it through an international game but where it would be risky to ask him to do so because he is not 100 per cent fit. In such scenarios, clubs and the association might agree that it would be in the best interests of the player concerned to give a non-competitive game a miss.

The fact remains; if a club wants to claim a player is injured when it comes to his selection for an international competitive game, the FAI are still fully entitled to demand that player shows up and undergoes a medical examination with the FAI doctor. If there is no injury, the club will be caught out. It's up to the FAI to stand firm on ensuring their interests are protected.

[Crosby87]

Martinez should get canned he has done a terrible job this year so far.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Robbie Keane said he would "walk away" if he was dropped. Excuse me for misinterpreting that one. And for what it's worth he still seems to be undroppable. Excuse me for misreading that one.

Grealish made several vague comments about Ireland and subsequently turned down a competitive call up after saying he was looking forward to senior duty.

I am wrong to doubt McCarthy and I should give Martinez the benefit of the doubt but if my "paranoia" and suspicions turn out to be true i doubt there will be any contrition on your part, more of the same semantics and condescension.

[Charlie Darwin]

Martinez should get canned he has done a terrible job this year so far.
They're two points off the position they finished last year.

[SwanVsDalton]

Robbie Keane said he would "walk away" if he was dropped. Excuse me for misinterpreting that one. And for what it's worth he still seems to be undroppable. Excuse me for misreading that one.

Grealish made several vague comments about Ireland and subsequently turned down a competitive call up after saying he was looking forward to senior duty.

I am wrong to doubt McCarthy and I should give Martinez the benefit of the doubt but if my "paranoia" and suspicions turn out to be true i doubt there will be any contrition on your part, more of the same semantics and condescension.

Bleurgh. Your assumptions and one-eyed interpretations have had more holes poked in them than Stephen Ward's defending. Get off your cross.

[Stuttgart88]

Robbie Keane said he would "walk away" if he was dropped. Excuse me for misinterpreting that one. And for what it's worth he still seems to be undroppable. Excuse me for misreading that one.

Grealish made several vague comments about Ireland and subsequently turned down a competitive call up after saying he was looking forward to senior duty.

I am wrong to doubt McCarthy and I should give Martinez the benefit of the doubt but if my "paranoia" and suspicions turn out to be true i doubt there will be any contrition on your part, more of the same semantics and condescension.ill happily acknowledge any wrong predictions I make. Far being being condescending, it was an ever-so-tiny playful dig on my part and I have also referenced you and your opinions positively in several posts. I don't think it's way off the mark to suggest you have a glass half empty / worst case interpretation of several issues. Less of the victim please.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Stutts you know i have the utmost respect for you (and Danny) as posters, and the respectful and intelligent way you get your points across, but we are going to have to beg to differ on this! It's not me bringing up Keane and Grealish this time. I am comfortable in my assertions. I don't feel a need to crusade for vindication! What i said about Keane is common enough criticism but here it is sadly a losing battle.

[Stuttgart88]

I thought you even admitted you were probably wrong on Keane after reading the Liam Mackey version of events?

As for "common enough criticism" I often despair at Irish popular opinion on many things, especially sport. Sorry, change "often" to very frequently.

[SwanVsDalton]

Stutts you know i have the utmost respect for you (and Danny) as posters, and the respectful and intelligent way you get your points across, but we are going to have to beg to differ on this! It's not me bringing up Keane and Grealish this time. I am comfortable in my assertions. I don't feel a need to crusade for vindication! What i said about Keane is common enough criticism but here it is sadly a losing battle.

Indeed. We hold ourselves to a higher standard of debate. :)

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Idk. I have regularly seen similar opinions to mine re: Keane on rte, wsc, guardian, boards and proc.

Agree about the standard of posting here though compared to certain other forum.

[SwanVsDalton]

Idk. I have regularly seen similar opinions to mine re: Keane on rte, wsc, guardian, boards and proc.

Agree about the standard of posting here though compared to certain other forum.

I think you've seen similar opinions to yours on here as well. It isn't personal and it isn't a witch-hunt, it's just the cut and thrust of debate. Your view is your own, and generally you seem to give as good as you get - I only have a problem when you lapse into victimhood.

As we know, the only true victim round these parts is Tets now he has to run around policing The Doc.

[Crosby87]

Ive sent an email to Everton that was polite but firm on your behalfs.

[geysir]

I think you've seen similar opinions to yours on here as well..
I have not seen any interpretation here or elsewhere, that Robbie would walk away if he was dropped from the first team, not even by the most irritable and ignorant of the Keane bashers. It's just about universally accepted that Keane will turn up as long as the manager wants him in the squad.

[Crosby87]

Alba will be feasting on haggis before the match. Do you chaps remember the movie Alien?
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSg4Fxwa2SjPz_TsCr_lfPxH1RspTRle fj13DTkX69JGH9F25oKlYgq7EDD (http://www.google.com/url?url=http://www.honglingjin.co.uk/36383.html&rct=j&frm=1&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ei=w2tNVNjEBerlsASJooKoDQ&ved=0CCAQ9QEwBQ&usg=AFQjCNFS5r3_OpbojfKn8ilAcZod6ZEaqQ)

[BonnieShels]

Ive sent an email to Everton that was polite but firm on your behalfs.

Uh oh.

[Charlie Darwin]

Ive sent an email to Everton that was polite but firm on your behalfs.
BEHALVES, Crosby. I hope you haven't hit send yet.

[ArdeeBhoy]

No, that works for Crosby!

[tetsujin1979]

Idk. I have regularly seen similar opinions to mine re: Keane on rte, wsc, guardian, boards and proc.

Agree about the standard of posting here though compared to certain other forum.
I can't speak about the forums on WSC (although I enjoy the mag) or the guardian, or PROC (People's Republic of Cork?) but if you're using the comment section on rte.ie and the soccer forum on boards.ie to support your opinion, you're already on thin ice.

[BonnieShels]

I'd wager there's no ice at this stage.

[Crosby87]

It's funny my tablet corrected me on the whole behalves thing. Technology is such a hideous bitch goddess.

[SwanVsDalton]

I have not seen any interpretation here or elsewhere, that Robbie would walk away if he was dropped from the first team, not even by the most irritable and ignorant of the Keane bashers. It's just about universally accepted that Keane will turn up as long as the manager wants him in the squad.

I was speaking fairly generally. I thought there was one or two people round these parts agreed with TOWK. Regardless, I agree the weight of opinion from what I've seen wouldn't support it.

Mostly I was just trying to be conciliatory, Geysir. I'm a moderate, unlike you with your 'off with his head!' arctic outlook.

[Crosby87]

Swan tends to be the ship of tranquility in a sea full of storms, claim many.

[geysir]

I was speaking fairly generally. I thought there was one or two people round these parts agreed with TOWK. Regardless, I agree the weight of opinion from what I've seen wouldn't support it.

Mostly I was just trying to be conciliatory, Geysir. I'm a moderate, unlike you with your 'off with his head!' arctic outlook.
Fair enough but you were replying to a post which headed with that Keane nonsense /victimhood.
I just ignore his posts, that's not an 'off with his head' attitude, it's called silent action, a quite progressive and effective action :)

[Philly]

With kick off two weeks from Friday, any idea when there will be a squad announced? Monday perhaps? I'm guessing there won't be any changes except those forced by injury.

[SwanVsDalton]

Swan tends to be the ship of tranquility in a sea full of storms, claim many.

Unflappable one might even say...

[Crosby87]

With kick off two weeks from Friday, any idea when there will be a squad announced? Monday perhaps? I'm guessing there won't be any changes except those forced by injury.

Cyrus Christie is gearing up.

[DannyInvincible]

Robbie Keane said he would "walk away" if he was dropped. Excuse me for misinterpreting that one. And for what it's worth he still seems to be undroppable. Excuse me for misreading that one.

Grealish made several vague comments about Ireland and subsequently turned down a competitive call up after saying he was looking forward to senior duty.

I am wrong to doubt McCarthy and I should give Martinez the benefit of the doubt but if my "paranoia" and suspicions turn out to be true i doubt there will be any contrition on your part, more of the same semantics and condescension.

Ah, c'mon, TOWK. I'll admit, sometimes I've allowed myself to get wound up to the point of exasperation by what I have perceived to be your irrational doom-mongering and exceptionally stubborn sophistry, but I don't mean to be condescending. (I'm not sure if you're addressing myself or Stutts there; possibly both.) If I've come across that way, I apologise. It might be hard to believe, but there is a mutual respect there, for you obviously care, and I know you have a sense of self-awareness and enough intellectual capability to be much less rigid, suspicious and catastrophical in your general analysis of things. That's why I try to entertain you in debate when others urge otherwise or simply ignore you, but it can be frustrating work because you so often continue repeating the same disproven claptrap over and over again in spite of the faults and inconsistencies of your position having already been clearly pointed out to you. More empathy and less ego would do you good! :)

If I'm wrong on something, I'm prepared to admit it. We've been over the former two matters enough before, but, when you return with that now-familiar response of "but that's what Robbie said!", you're still simply assuming that Robbie's words were intended to carry a meaning that you've presumptuously assigned to them. Once again, you seem to be disingenuously feigning ignorance of the many discussions we've had on this before where it has been pointed out to you how you were jumping to an unreasonable conclusion. And, as Stutts has already mentioned, you'd even admitted your unfairness after you'd read Mackey's piece. Mackey, a perceptive and knowledgeable journalist, was at the press conference.

On Grealish, vagueness is akin to ambiguity, whereas you've always tried to give the impression you were sure he was simply deceiving us. Do we know he explicitly turned down a senior call-up? The whole episode told us a young lad was considering a tough decision in his footballing life - our management empathised with that and dealt with it accordingly - but now it seems he's going to go through with it and stick with us. Cut him a bit of slack.


Idk. I have regularly seen similar opinions to mine re: Keane on rte, wsc, guardian, boards and proc.

Can you direct us towards a few of these opinions seeing as they're so readily available? Anyhow, just because a certain interpretation might be a popular one (and that is disputed), it doesn't make it the correct one.


I can't speak about the forums on WSC (although I enjoy the mag) or the guardian, or PROC (People's Republic of Cork?) but if you're using the comment section on rte.ie and the soccer forum on boards.ie to support your opinion, you're already on thin ice.

Is TOWK a Corkonian then?... I suppose that explains the victim complex then! Actually, he's not Sullivinho's comedy wind-up account, is he? :p

[Philly]

McCarthur and Steven Fletcher are both out for this game apparently. Fletcher's time out doesn't seem to be confirmed by Sunderland yet though, so he might be back in time.

[Crosby87]

Gordon Greer is slow.

[garob81]

lads, fair few tickets available in Lisbon Lions Section 411

[DeLorean]

I hear what TOWK is saying - there's a paranoid and negative part of my brain too on occasion - but really it's got nothing to do with Martinez. The FAI can insist they get checked by their own doctors. I'd say if both players think they can play they will. If they were fringe players you could maybe see them trying to appease the manager but both are automatic picks when fit, crucial players for Martinez, and Martinez would be picking the wrong battle I reckon.

McCarthy playing in a game with this kind of atmosphere and hostility could only benefit Everton I think. Whether he produces or not on the night wouldn't even matter too much, to them, as the experience would stand to him no end. If anything, we are the ones who stand to lose more by his availability. If, as a lot of the Scots seem to think, Brown starts getting the better of him due to his greater mental strength, that would give the home support a massive lift and it could become a very difficult evening for McCarthy. It really is an opportunity for McCarthy to show that he has grown into the player we know he came be, in terms of ability but particularly in terms of temperament.

[OwlsFan]

Robbie Keane said he would "walk away" if he was dropped. Excuse me for misinterpreting that one. And for what it's worth he still seems to be undroppable. Excuse me for misreading that one.


Still at this I see. It should be read in the context of what he said earlier: "Of course I thought about it ((retiring)) but the thought of never putting on a green jersey again was difficult to come round to and even now I am dreading that. I want to play as long as I can for my country and as long as I am fit and healthy and the manager picks me, I will play".

In other words he will play for as long as he can (unlike many high profile internationals these days) but once he is no longer fit, or healthy or selected, he will retire. What more do you want him to do? Give blood?

[Charlie Darwin]

If anything, we are the ones who stand to lose more by his availability.
That is some crazy illogic, DeLorean.

[DeLorean]

In my cobweb defence, I did try to explain what I meant in the remaining paragraph. I just don't see why Martinez would want him withdrawn from this game compared to any other. The hostility, etc will be an Irish problem, not an Everton one.